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AVM|NBCA Glue|56|Female
AVM|NBCA Glue|56|Female
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IR in Egypt and Ethiopia | AVIR International-IR Sessions at SIR2019 MiddleEast & Africa Focus
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Case 10: Peritoneal Hematoma | Emoblization: Bleeding and Trauma
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Benefits of UFE | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
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Treatment Options- TransCarotid Artery Revascularization- TCAR | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
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Scope of IR Procedures in South Africa | South African Interventional Society (SAintS)
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Ideal Uterine Fibroid Embolization Candidates | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
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UFE and Adenomyosis | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
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Post-intervention Non-invasive Tests | Determining the Endpoints of CLI Interventions
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Treatment Options- CAS- Embolic Protection Device (EPD)- Distal Protection | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
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Hemobilia | Biliary Intervention
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Treatment Options- Carotid Artery Stenting (CAS) | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
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MEET Symposia, MEET IO, MEET Aorta, MEET Stroke | AVIR International-IR Sessions at SIR2019 MiddleEast & Africa Focus
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Cone Beam CT | Interventional Oncology
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TIPS: Techniques- Stent Grafts | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
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Case- May Thurner Syndrome | Pelvic Congestion Syndrome
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Treatment Options- CAS- Embolic Protection Device (EPD)- Proximal Protection | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
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The Case that Launched the Cornell PERT (PE Response Team) | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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Q&A Uterine Fibroid Embolization | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
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Renal Ablation | Interventional Oncology
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Transcript

it's a known AVM. We have a big sort of vascular malformation clinic at our center and I would suggest if people want to get into these you set something like that up where you have dermatologists, plastic surgeons,

orthopedic surgeons sometimes neurosurgeons and you meet the patients together and you come up with a game plan because as Dr. Razavi said these are not risk free. And it's nice to have everybody on board when something goes wrong. So this patient had obviously this large vascular malformation.

If you put a stethoscope on there I heard a lot of blury/g. And you can see she's got ulceration over to this side. She sort of got unremitting pain, and she's had several treatments over many years. A lot of these patients would have been treated else where.

But at this point it's sort of intolerable. And she had seen a vascular surgeon he was kinda concerned. He said it would be sort of an extensive amp. He wasn't sure if it was already infected they consulted us. They took a look at her at the clinic they said maybe there's an option.

It's just her arteriolegram because they said it was high flow. So in that case we'd usually do at least a mapping arteriolegram or potentially therapeutic treatment via the artery. Show you a little bit lower down and you can see as they usually it's quite more extensive area of malformation as you might

see skin really involves virtually all the arteries of the foot quite extensive. A few different ways to go at this. One is to go direct arteriole. There were some concerned that potentially we would take out too much supply, and again potentially thinking she may need an amp

at some point maybe make that healing worse. Make her foot a little less functional. And we sort of said maybe we can minimize surgery or avoid it if possible. So we took an approach that Dr. Razavi mentioned just going direct access.

And there's a couple concepts I'd like to bring up here when you're gonna go direct access. This is a high flow AVM as opposed to the low flow. So for those who are just getting into this I usually suggest. Start with the low flows because there's a lot less risk,

and you can see what's happening a little bit easier. This one we thought maybe could mitigate some damage instead of going through the artery and wiping out more of that supply, try to go straight into the nitis.

And I think alcohol is definitely an option here. But as you saw her skin was not in great shape as it was, it was very superficial. So our thought was that maybe we try to do this with n-BCA. We'll talk a lot about ratios of n-BCA and how you mix it today,

for me I usually go somewhere between 1:1 and 1:4. It's not very often I'll go more than that. We could talk a little bit about why that is, but I think it's a good idea to just get comfortable with a couple of concentrations at first.

And you get used to that and then as you do more you can expand into thinning out the glue more or less. But this one we are rating it, and what we saw when we did some test injections, and you do a lot of test injections to kind of

get a feel for how much contrast does it take you to start to see the vein, how long is it. So I suggest do that several times, be very confident, even to the point where if you are not comfortable you may say I can't use glue or I can't do it from this approach.

That's not the end of the world either. You can always back off. These are usually completely elective and you've got time to think and time to plan. So in this case initially there was still too much flow. It was just too high flow you could put a balloon in the artery

and we actually tried to do that a little bit, but this had so many supplies that that really had no effect on it. So what we did was put up a couple turner kits and see a few of these, and then we sort of pushed around based in the arteriogram and tried to control little bit of that arterial flow,

just to slow it down. And then we used glue that was quite concentrated, basically 1:1 and essentially we just put in a really small volume so it filled up so we just kinda sewn the

venous side and just kinda pulled the needle out. This is kind of the result after and as Dr. Razavi said it's very quick, it does not take a long time. The planning I suggest spend your time on. That was it.

Wrapped the foot up, put it on some anti-inflammatory, she already had pain so it actually wasn't a lot more painful than what she had. Here is some x-rays that she got afterwards. She really got great relief of pain after the first week or so.

She actually had really nice healing over that area. And I really think that this for her was probably the best thing. As I said you could have maybe curious of you would have tried alcohol we just thought the skin was so bad we didn't wanna do that, but you probably could have done it.

We had pretty good control, nice visibility with the glue. And I think this is a little bit unique application cause it's so superficial. And that's her afterwards, so this is actually at the multi

disciplinary clinic and actually the orthopedic surgeon was telling her this is what I would have been planning to amputate. And when we saw her in follow up a few weeks later it actually looked really good. This part was actually a bit necrotic but it was healed over. So for full disclosure I just looked in this before again I came it's a

pretty recent case so at a month she had some redness, that same area, that's my cut off. [LAUGH] So what they did was they thought it might be infected so they just did a really small amputation here,

just to keep that clean and that healed up fine. So she's doing very well now. >> So at the amputation did you see a lot of bleeding or not? >> The bleeding they did have to put up a tourniquet up. So again that was to great point because we talked about that at

the multidisciplinary clinic, and again that's why it's nice to before you do some of these things, kinda have a long term plan. Because these people we don't cure them, we're very honest

about them, you saw the extent of that malformation, it's a lot of this person's foot. So you really don't treat them until their symptoms are so bad that they can't take. They have some functional problem that they can't live with.

Cause lysis is reasonable but even that, you know, you've tried to be honest with them if something is really bothering someone you can treat for that, but you have to be honest you're probably not gonna cure him, so I think she had good reasons.

Functionally she had a problem she was starting to break that down so. >> One more practical question. When you put your needle in there at the toe how do you keep that needle steady to make sure you have maintenance. That's where the most difficulties that they have.

I use butterfly sometimes to maintain, and butterfly obviously the problem is neither onyx nor glue can inject it well through butterfly. So how did you maintain that needle into that small vessel to be able to inject the glue? >> We use the short micro punctures-

>> The pediatric ones as well- >> Yeah so that's pretty much- >> So you're holding your hand on the floor the whole time? >> Yeah this-

>> The fellow is so that's okay, they are expandable. >> So the long sort of Kelly clamp that comes with the kit- >> Yeah yeah that's right. >> [CROSSTALK] we keep those and sometimes but I agree some of the

accesses are very tough. And even that little amount of motion you finally get into these things and you lose them. >> It falls out. >> In the low flows we have that a lot more cuz you take five or six of these, we usually try to starry strip them on and usually just

stay away and have little short connecting tubing, so its not moving. we try to do that but I could show you many cases where there's hands in the beam. >> So any comments from the audience on this case or particularly on this high flow AVMs?

next is me talking about Egypt and Ethiopia and how I are how IRS practice in Egypt and Ethiopia and I think feather and Musti is gonna talk a little bit about Ethiopia as well he's got a

lot of experience about in about Ethiopia I chose these two countries to show you the kind of the the the the difference between different countries with within Africa Egypt is the 20th economy worldwide by GDP third largest

economy in Africa by some estimates the largest economy in Africa it's about a hundred million people about a little-little and about thirty percent of the population in the u.s. 15 florist's population worldwide and has

about a little over a hundred ir's right now 15 years ago they had less than ten IRS and fifteen years ago they had maybe two to three IRS at a hundred percent nowadays they're exceeding a hundred IRS so tremendous gross in the last 15 years

in the other hand Ethiopia is a very similar sized country but they only have three to five IRS that are not a hundred percent IRS and are still many of them are under training so there are major differences between countries within

within Africa countries that still need a lot of help and a lot of growth and countries that are like ten fifteen years ahead as far as as far as intervention ready intervention radiology

most of the practice in Ethiopia are basic biopsies drainages and vascular access but there is new workshops with with embolization as well as well as well as vascular access in Egypt the the ir practice is heavily into

interventional oncology and cancer that's the bulk that's the bulk of their of their practices you also get very strong neuro intervention radiology and that's mostly most of these are French trained and not

American trains so they're the neuro IRS in Egypt or heavily French and Belgian trains with with french-speaking influence but the bulk of the body iron that's not neuro is mostly cancer and it involves y9e tastes ablations high-end

ablations there's no cryoablation in Egypt there is high-end like like a nano knife reverse electric race electroporation in Egypt as well but there is no cryo you also get a specialty embolization such as fibroids

prostate and embroiders are big in Egypt they're growing very very rapidly especially prostates hemorrhoids and fibroids is an older one but it's still there's still a lot of growth for fibroid embolization zyou FES in Egypt

there's some portal portal intervention there's a lot of need for that but not a lot of IRS are actually doing portal intervention and then there's nonvascular such as billary gu there's also vascular access a lot of

the vascular access is actually done by nephrology and is not done by not not done by r is done by some high RS varicose veins done by vascular surgery and done by IRS as an outpatient there's a lot of visceral angiography as well

renal and transplants stuff so it's pretty high ends they do not do P ad very few IR s and maybe probably two IR s in the country that actually do P ad the the rest of the P ad is actually endovascular PA DS done by vascular

surgery a Horta is done all by vascular surgery and cardiothoracic surgery it's not done it's not done by IR IR s are asked just to help with embolization sometimes help with trying to get a catheter in a certain area but it's

really run by by vascular surgeons but but most more or less it's it's the whole gamut and I'm going to give you a little example of how things are different that when it comes to a Kannamma 'kz there's no dialysis work

they don't do Pfister grams they don't do D clots the reason for that is the vascular surgeons are actually very good at establishing fishless and they usually don't have a

lot of problems with it sometimes if the fistula is from Beau's door narrowed it's surgically revised they do a surgical thrombectomy because it's a lot cheaper it's a lot cheaper than balloons sheaths and and trying to and try a TPA

is very expensive it's a lot cheaper for a surgeon to just clean it out surgically and resuture it there's no there's no inventory there are no expensive consumables so we don't see dialysis as far as fistula or dialysis

conduits at all in Egypt and that's usually a trend in developed in developed countries next we'll talk

I'm Nikki Jensen Nicole is what my mother calls me but that's alright thank you all for joining us today I am the clinical resource nas I work in a clinical nurse specialist position I graduated in May so I'll finally be called the clinical nurse specialist

after I passed my boards in nonvascular radiology so at Mayo Clinic Rochester we are kind of split up between I are in our IR practice where we have non vascular procedural Center CT MRI ultrasound guided procedures we'll go

over a list of our standard perform procedures as well as our neuro interventional and vascular interventional practice so Kerri and I work in the non vascular so we do not do any neuro interventional or vascular

vascular interventional procedures so these guidelines are going to focus on your LR CT or ultrasound guided procedures how many of you went to the combined session this morning great this is going to be an overview because what

we saw presented there really reiterates what we are have brought into our practice but then we're also going to share how we created nursing guidelines and how we rolled that into our practice this is Carrie Carrie is a staff nurse

in our department I worked as a staff nurse for seven years prior to this position I've been in this position now for four years and really enjoy it I do want to give a little shout-out to Carrie and I presented or sorry we

published an article in the June 28th volume 37 issue - that really coincides with our presentation today so I would encourage you to read that publication and then you'll get additional information on how we did this yes all

right we have nothing to disclose unfortunately or fortunately right so the purpose of this presentation is to help you all understand the importance of creating reviewing the literature

understanding your for one your coagulation casket as well cascade as well as anticoagulants that are out there or new up-and-coming medications and understanding that yes it's very important to establish and create these

guidelines so that within your practice you don't have differing radiologists that have differing opinions if you're working with doctor so-and-so today you need to worry about these labs if you're working with you know dr. Johnson

tomorrow he doesn't care about the labs we did this to help standardize that to help reduce the amount of questions our nurses have how many times we're interrupting our radiologists but then also we need to take into consideration

the importance of the patients and their different disease processes and we'll be going over that too so it's nice to have established guidelines but then also we need to take into consideration why patients are on certain medications this

here is our list of objectives I'm not going to read them for you you can all read them and we've provided you all with handouts too but really we want to just help kind of explain mechanism of actions and different medications and

how we established our guidelines this here is where Kari and I come from full disclosure we do have snow on the ground so these pictures were not taken before we came we are really enjoying this nice warm weather but for those of you who

are not familiar with the history of Mayo Clinic in Rochester who we have a hundred and fifty plus year tradition of implementing evidence-based care to assure the needs of our patient come first we are divided up into one

downtown campus but we have three different main areas so we have our st. Mary's Hospital this is where Kerry is based out of this is this houses most all of our ICUs as well as most all of our inpatients so we do a lot of

inpatients but we also see outpatients in this hospital Rochester Methodist Hospital this is where our he mock patients typically are we do have one ICU within Hospital as well but then right here my

office is right there this is our Mayo downtown campus so this is where most of our patients come for outside procedures or outpatient diagnostic imaging exams this here is the group that I'm part of the clinical nursing specialist group

within our clinical nursing specialist group there are 77 of us there are five like myself clinical resources as we have not graduated as of yet I'm right there in the middle w

that work in over 70 ambulatory areas in 58 inpatient areas we also support some areas in our Arizona and Florida campuses and then we have Mayo Clinic Health System hospitals that are scattered throughout Iowa

Wisconsin in Minnesota as well I am the only one in radiology across all of our

patient female patient who has the sudden onset of upper abdominal pain here's the CT we did all these cases in one day it was crazy it was terrible so so here's a big hematoma a big peritoneal hematoma you

can see it anterior to the right kidney you can see the white blob of contrast right in the middle of the hematoma that's a pseudoaneurysm or even active extravagance um less experienced people would probably say it's active

extravagant I think most of us would prefer that it be called kind of a pseudoaneurysm this active extrapolation would be much more cloudy and spread out this is more constrained and you can see on the

coronal image you get a sense that there's that hematoma same type of problem all right is there more imaging that we can do to figure out the next step again I said earlier earlier in this lecture

that sometimes we use CTA now sometimes a CTA is worthwhile I do find that for a lot of these patients I think we're getting smarter and we're doing CTAs right at the beginning of this whole thing you know when a trauma

patient comes in we're getting CTAs so we can max out the amount of information that we get on the initial diagnostic imaging here's what we're seeing on the CTA and in this particular case I think it's pretty clear that you can see the

pseudoaneurysm arising from what looks like a branch of the superior mesenteric artery so this is just an odd visceral and Jake visceral aneurysm which looks like it probably ruptured I don't have an explanation for it led to a big

hematoma here's what that is and now we're gonna do an angiogram the neat thing is it just perfectly correlated with a conventional angiogram so here's our super mesenteric angiogram all right the supreme mesenteric artery

on the first image to the left is that vessel going downward towards the right side of the screen all those vessels coming off are really just collateral vessels going up to the liver through the gastroduodenal artery again that

left one looks pretty good it's not until you see the delayed image on the right that you see that area of contrast all right so that's the finding that correlates with the CT scan all right here we're able to get in there you put

a micro catheter in that vessel alright the key next step for this patient as I mentioned earlier is the whole concept of front door and back door so here we're technically in the front door the next thing that we do is we put the

catheter past the area of injury and now we embolize right across the injury because remember once you embolize one thing flow is gonna change we screw it up body the body wants to preserve its flow if we block flow

somewhere the body's gonna reroute blood to get to where we blocked it so we want to think ahead and we want to say okay we're blocking this vessel how's the body going to react and let's let's get in the way of that happening that's what

we did here so we saw the pathology we went past it we embolized all across the pathology and boom now we don't have anymore bleeding and the likelihood of recurrence is gonna be very low for that patient because we went all the way

across the abnormality and I think from

Sean I know you have not seen these slides at all you wanted I John can talk about this with his eyes closed so it's

not like there's anything but this is the data that was published from the Jade publishing jvi are from what Sean has written and it's just the current standards relating to what you should be expecting what we tell our patients that

they should expect for outcomes as it relates to uterine artery embolization again I'm not really here to try to point this I know you can google these you can get the information yourself but just to say that all of our procedures

have risk and we need to be clear with our patients about them now I believe that with all of these risks combined the benefits of doing uterine fibroid embolization for most patients is far greater than the risk and that's why I

really do have my practice so these are the benefits right shorter hospital stay and I would say more cost-effective and that is really debatable because gynecologists have become smarter and smarter now they're doing like same-day

hysterectomies if you have a vaginal hysterectomy then maybe a UFE is not as cost-effective because they don't have to do an MRI beforehand and they don't get an MRI afterwards and do all of that anyway and if you look at the long-term

cost of that then maybe having a hysterectomy in some patients could be that but we know for sure that patients are more satisfied when they get a embolization procedure than in my MEC to me not in the beginning run because the

procedure can be very painful that is not the procedure itself is painful but post embolization syndrome which could last anywhere from five to seven days can can be very painful again this is the comparative data that was published

by dr. Spees who is our gold medal winner this year understand a lot a lot of work in this space has allowed us to have this conversation with our gynecology partners but also with our patients as we talked about like when

can you return to work how long are you going to be all for you know am I going to need extra child care or whatever how long would I be in the hospital this information helps us to inform our patients about that then on average

you'll stay in the hospital around you know a day or so and most uterine artery embolization procedures are same-day procedures and interventional radiologists are doing these in freestanding centers as well as other

providers without any issues so we're almost down to the end we know that fibroid embolization is proven to be an effective and durable a procedure for controlling patient symptoms it's minimally invasive and it's outpatient

most patients can go back to some normal activity in one to two weeks it has a low complication rates and some patients mein neatest to surgery and should have surgery so in our practice we send around 1/3 of our patients or so to

surgery and the reason that that is that high is that patients are allowed to come and see myself or dr. de riz Nia from the street they do not have to be referred from their gynecologist and so they're just coming from the street then

you will be referring them to a gynecologist because of some of the things that may not make them a good candidate for embolization such as this

quick I did want to mention t-carr briefly and try to get you guys closer to back on time this is a hybrid procedure this is combining the surgical procedure we talked about first and carotid stenting it takes combined

carotid exposure at the base of the clavicle or just above the clavicle and reverses blood flow just like we talked about but tastes slightly different technique or approach to doing this and then you put the stent in from a drug

carotid access here's the components of the device right up by the neck there is where the incision is made just above the clavicle and you have this sheet that's about eight French in size that only goes in about us to 2 cm or 1 and a

half cm overall into the vessel and then that sheath is sutured to the the chest wall and then it's got a side arm that goes what's labeled number six here is this flow reversal urn enroute neuroprotection kit it reverses the

blood flow and then you get a femoral sheath in the vein right in the common femoral vein and you reverse the blood flow so this is a case a picture from our institution up on the right is the patient's neck and that's the carotid

exposure and the initial sheath is in place so the sidearm of that sheath is the enroute protection system which is going up up at the top of the image there we're gonna back bleed that let that sidearm of that sheath continue to

bleed up to the very top and then connect that to the common femoral venous sheet that we have in place there's a stepwise of that and then ultimately what we see at the end of the procedure is that filter inside that

little canister can be interrogated after and you can see the debris this is in the box D here on the bottom left the debris that we captured during the flow reversal and this is a what we call a passive and then active flow reversal

system so once the system is in place the direct exposure carotid sheath in place the flow controller and AV shunt in place you see the direction of blood flow so now all that blood flow in that common carotid artery is going reverse

direction and so when you place a sheath or wire and and ultimately through that sheath up by the carotid artery there's no risk for distal embolization because everything is flowing in Reverse here's a couple

case examples ferns from our institution this is a patient who had a symptomatic critical greater than 90% stenosis has tandems to nose he's so one proximal at the origin and one a little bit more distal we you can see the little

retractors down at the base of the image there in the sheath that's essentially the extent of the sheath from the bottom of that image into the vessel only about a cm or two post angioplasty instant patient tolerated that quite well here's

another 71 year-old asymptomatic patient greater than 90% stenosis pretty calcified lesion a little more extensive than maybe with the CT shows there's the angiography and then ultimately a post stent placement using the embolic

protection device and overall the trials have shown good good safety met profile overall compared to carotid surgery so it's a minimum minimal exposure not nearly as large the risk of stroke is less because you're not mucking around

up there you're using the best of a low profile system with flow reversal albeit with a mini surgical exposure overall we've actually have an abstract or post trip this year's meeting this is just a snapshot of that you can check it out

this is our one year experience we've had comparable low complication rates overall in our experience so in summary

higher procedures that get done in the country so they are from being basics such as being para sentences and in some

centers being quite complex in Euro work and there are centers where these none of all those that IR procedures being available so it's a very unequal distribution of provision of IR services and like I mentioned earlier on vascular

surgeons and cardiologists have basically taken over the peripheral vascular work and iogic work and other known neuro speciality such as bid early interventions for example saying that these two surgeons who are in some

remote centers who are doing their own provision as biliary basic interventions there is one neuro surgeon who went and had neuro imaging and then your interventional training who is now hundred percent doing a mural

intervention so as far as procedures go my day can be in diagnostic work and you might be dreaming you doing a paracentesis the next thing you might be doing some some I our basic IR and on the same day you might be doing a set

procedure so quite varied but not available in all centers as one would want as fine stuff goes the technology

so my name is Paul I'm one of the nurse practitioners from UCI Irvine healthcare and what am i one of our minerals in there is basically working on patients for consultations doing the patient rounds writing notes ordering labs etc we also have several clinics that we run

at UCI Medical Center involving patients needing consultations for Libra direct therapies ablations and so forth and one of the more recent clinic that we started running is basically treating patients with BPH and so what we would

know inspiration is basically treating and regarding their symptoms and the procedures pretty much called a prostate artery embolization so the main purpose of this patient excuse me the main purpose of this

topics is basically to provide the general information of what the procedures are about illustrating indications risk and to hopefully help our nursing staff to better take care of these patients sorry so first and

foremost I just wanted to thank my team UC Irvine for allowing me to take some time off of work and enjoying Austin and its many food and object and and allowing me to speak to you guys a little bit about prostate ammo on our

pitchers basically you can't I don't know laser printer but our physicians dr. Karen Nelson she's one of our chief of IR dr. Dan through Fernando dr. Nadine a bitch day and dr. James Castro thesis

he's got daughter Kat Reese is our main doctor that does most of our process embolization our excellent iron nursing team and of course my fellow nurse practitioners who is holding the fort back home Pamela and Takara and watch

and Lou sorry but so our objectives for discussions basically to illustrate the indications and benefits of prostate artery embolization we're going to go over the side effects and risk complications associated with this

procedure and also recognize the value of nursing care going starting from the workup leading to the proper process in trot process and post procedure care sort of a brief outline of what we're gonna be

talking about we're just gonna go over the basic fundamentals of BPH as well as the treatment for PAE and the second portion of this lecture is going over how we walk patients up in clinic what we tell patients and we're gonna go

through the proper care and drop care ask well ask the post-op care and we're going to go through a couple of cases in there it's just to describe to you guys how we care for these special population

it's obviously either done with general

anesthesia or perhaps a regional block at our institution is generally done with general anesthesia we have a really combined vascular well developed combined vascular practice we work closely with our surgeons as well as

you know those who are involved in the vascular interventional space as far as the ir docs and and in this setting they would do generally general anesthetic and a longitudinal neck incision so you've got that and the need for that to

heal ultimately dissect out the internal carotid the external carotid common carotid and get vessel loops and good control over each of those and then once you have all of that you hyper NIH's the patient systemically not unlike what we

do in the angio suite and then they make a nice longer-term longitudinal incision on the carotid you spot scissors to cut those up and they actually find that plaque you can see that plaque that's shown there it's you know actually

pretty impressive if you've seen it and let's want to show an illustrative picture there ultimately that's open that's removed you don't get the entirety of the plaque inside the vessel but they get as much as they can and

then they kind of pull and yank and that's one of the pitfalls of this procedure I think ultimately is you don't get all of it you get a lot more than you realize is they're on on angiography but you don't get all of it

and whatever is left sometimes can be sometimes worse off and then ultimately you close the wound reverse the heparin and closed closed it overall and hope that they don't have an issue with wound healing don't have an issue with a

general anesthetic and don't have a stroke in the interim while they've clamped and controlled the vessel above and below so here's a case example from our institution in the past year this is a critical asymptomatic left internal

carotid artery stenosis pretty stenotic it almost looks like it's vocally occluded you can see that doesn't look very long it's in the proximal internal carotid artery you can see actually the proximal external carotid artery which

is that kind of fat vessel anteriorly also looks stenotic and so it's going to be addressed as well and this is how they treated it this is the exposure in this particular patient big incision extractors place and you can see vessel

loops up along the internal and external carotid arteries distally along some early branches of the external carotid artery off to the side and then down below in the common core artery and ultimately you get good vessel control

you clamp before you make the incision ultimately take out a plaque that looks like this look how extensive that plaque is compared to what you saw in the CT scan so it's not it's generally much more

impressive what's inside the vessel than what you appreciate on imaging but it's the focal stenosis that's the issue so ultimately if yet if the patient was a candidate stenting then you just place a stent

across that and he stabilized this plaque that's been removed and essentially plasti to that within the stent so it doesn't allow any thrombus to break off of this plaque and embolize up to the brain that's the issue of raw

it's the flow through there becomes much more turbulent as the narrowing occurs with this blockage and it's that turbulent flow that causes clot or even a small amount of clot to lodge up distally within the intrical in

terrestrial vasculature so that's the issue here at all if you don't take all that plaque out that's fine as long as you can improve the turbulent blood flow with this stent but this is not without risk so you take that plaque out which

looks pretty bad but there are some complications right so major minor stroke in death an asset which is a trial that's frequently quoted this is really this trial that was looking at medical therapy versus carotid surgery

five point eight percent of patients had some type of stroke major minor so that's not insignificant you get all that plaque out but if you know one in twenty you get a significant stroke then that's not so bad I'm not so good right

so but even if they don't get a stroke they might get a nerve palsy they might get a hematoma they may get a wound infection or even a cardiovascular event so nothing happens in the carotid but the heart has an issue because the

blockages that we have in the carotid are happening in the legs are happening in the coronary so those patients go through a stress event the general anesthetic the surgery incision whatever and then recovery from that I actually

put some stress on the whole body overall and they may get an mi so that's always an issue as well so can we do something less invasive this is actually a listing of the trials the talk is going to be available to you guys so I'm

not going to go through each of this but this is comparing medical therapy which I started with and surgery and comparing the two options per treatment and showing that in certain symptomatic patients if they have significant

stenosis which is deemed greater than 70% you may be better off treating them with surgery or stenting than with best medical therapy and as we've gotten better and better with being more aggressive with best medical therapy

this is moving a little bit but here's the criteria for treatment and so you have that available to you but really is

so who are the most ideal candidates for fibroid embolization obviously I would say the most ideal candidates are patients that are symptomatic and I've told you already that 80% of black women

have fibroids but guess what only half of those will be so symptomatic that they would need to be even treated so just because fibroids exist don't mean that they need to actually be treated already so you

to actually have symptoms most patients that are symptomatic will again wait to getting treatment for like three and a half to five years but when they come we want to make sure that they're symptomatic and that they're not trying

to become pregnant and I know somebody in the audience has a question around that already so let's hold your high horses I'm coming to that how about patients that don't want to have surgery or just don't have time to

have surgery they don't have time for long recovery if you don't care if you have your uterus or not then I'm not so sure that you need to be pursuing a uterine sparing procedure okay and I'm gonna pause here to address one other

thing that it's a myth it is a myth that if you do not need to have children then you do not need your uterus I beg to differ and when we talk to women they are quite upset about this preposition that the uterus is only there for

baby-making purposes in fact there have been several studies now that have come out to say that women that have had early hysterectomy even with their ovaries in place are predisposed to coronary artery disease or

cardiovascular events we would like patients that are poor surgical candidates because if they can have surgery then they may be able to have surgery or patients that do not desire future fertility patients that have

already concerns about hysterectomy because of religious reasons or don't want to have hormonal therapy and I actually like patients that have have a have obesity because if we are able to do this procedure then they're spared

more complications related to surgery so the ideal patient then and this is a very important point said all three criteria would need to be fit that if you're a patient in order to be offered embolization number one

you have to have fibroids believe it or not you have to have symptoms that are related to fibroids and then you have to have some MRI that says that the location of where your fiber it is is causing that symptom and that these

fibroids are vascular let me explain okay and I'm going to skip this so I've been working with people for a long enough time and I've work of Julie for years I've worked with Diane and Anna and some other people for like ten years

and imagine if you're working with me for ten years you know that you're probably going to be able to do this procedure too like you're scrubbing right next to me eventually like you pick these things up what I get paid for

is not to do that and for the experienced nurses and techs that are in the room you know exactly what I'm talking about you're better than the doctors half of the time you really could do this procedure but what I get

paid for is to decide who does not even get to come on the table to get this procedure done so pay attention to this slide and these this criteria is being challenged every day and we're getting more and more data to say that this is

old information that we used to say if the uterus was like more than six months then you probably shouldn't have a uterine sparing procedure but we know that we do in embolization all the time in patients that have large fibroids

anyway but there's no data to actually give us that information most of the trials that we have and we have had a lot of them they have excluded patients where their individual fibroids were greater than 12 centimeters if you have

had an indeterminate and de metrio biopsy or you're having abnormal pap smear doing a uterine sparing procedure makes no sense so we use these imaging to really help us to determine which patients really

deserve to be treated so everybody can see that that image on the Left where it says submucosal refers to and I'm gonna try and come down so I can see these images here and you can see that there is a fibroid that is in

truck hava teri do you see that that round thing that is surrounded by the white fluid that is someone that has what we would call a type zero fibroid completely within the unit of course this is going to cause bleeding but

should this person have a uterine artery embolization or a hysterectomy Gail no this patient should have like hysteroscopic resection like a D&C and they would just scrape that thing out and then their symptoms would go away or

the patient on the right that has a normal appearing uterus and then this pedunculated gigantic thing that has bled into itself that is like a sub serosa fibroid of the extreme just hanging off on the outside now should

this patient have embolization no someone can tie a string right at that little connection and take that thing out so using our imaging to help us to decide which patients should be treated is very important or this patient who

came with Oh dr. Newsome I've been bleeding for 10 weeks in a row I have reversed cycles I have bulk I have bladder symptoms and yet they have that little dot that little black thing there that little dot

at the top that is the only place where there's a fibroid so this patient should not be a candidate for embolization either because yes they have symptoms and they have that little tiny daughter for fibra but that is not what's causing

those symptoms so it is important that we're not doing procedures on patients just because we can but because we're using our imaging and the patient's symptom to decide which patients are the best candidates for these procedures

talk here with something that's new on the horizon believe it or not it was actually on the horizon 20 years ago and then it went away because there were a lot of patients that were treated with a

lot of complications and it's making a resurgence and this is balloon pulmonary angioplasty or BPA for short so this is an intervention which may be feasible in non-operative candidates so I mentioned to the Jamison classification earlier

type 1 and type 2 disease should be treated with surgery again it should be treated is curative but patients with type 2 and a half or 3 disease can be treated with balloon pulmonary angioplasty in the right in the right

frame which means that a surgeon has said I cannot operate on this a medical doctor has said boy they're not going to get better with their medicine let's try something else well this is that something else and that's what involves

everyone in this room so this is these are usually staged interventions with potentially high radiation and contrast dose if you think about it it's like Venis recan and a pulmonary AVM all-in-one so it's a potentially a long

complex procedure with a lot of contrast and a lot of radiation but it can provide a lot of benefit to these patients I'm going to talk about the comp potential complications at the end which is one reason why not

everyone should do these all the time so this is a pulmonary angiogram from the literature when you're injecting a selective pulmonary artery you can see that this patient has multiple stenosis there's no real good flow there the

vessels look shriveled up like I mentioned to you before you can get a balloon across it and balloon the areas and then you can see afterwards so the image a on the left is before an image D is afterwards believe it or not this are

in the most experienced hands because the most experienced hands are for palm the BP AR in Japan they do hundreds of cases of these a year at each hospital I've personally only done five so but this is a something that I'm very

interested in and you can see how how much benefit it has for that patient another way you can see these are the webs and the bands that I mentioned to you earlier so what's interesting is that if you look on the first set of

images on the top and the images on the bottom those are the same patients it's the same view before top rows before and the bottom rows after balloon pulmonary angioplasty so the first image is a pulmonary angiogram where if you kind of

see this there's there's some area areas of haziness those are the webs and bands the image on the the middle is the blown-up views and you can see those areas and then the image on the right is intravascular ultrasound which I use

every day in my practice it's a catheter with an ultrasound on it and when you look at it on the top image image see you can see a lot of thrombus you're actually not seeing flow and on image F on the bottom you're seeing red which is

the blood flow so these patients can actually improve the luminal diameter bye-bye ballooning them you can treat occlusions again image on the left shows you a pulmonary artery with a basically an occlusion proximally and then after

you reek analyze it and balloon it you can see that they can get much more

interrupting something else getting back

to a paddock with angiography something that we're starting to look at the group at University of Pennsylvania has a publication out on this as well I looked at the liver lymphatics certainly the livers where we produce a

lot of protein it goes through the lymphatics to be returned to the circulation in patients who have heart failure they tend to have increased lymphatic flow in the liver and they think that protein lost in enteropathy

protein losing a property happens when the liver lymphatic leaks into the intestines just some images from their article you see them looking at the hepatic lymphatics there and once they had a needle in the hepatic lymphatics

they actually put her scope in and they injected blue dye and as a proof-of-concept they saw the blue dye leaking into the intestine so now that they see that the blue dye leaking the intestine they say well we can embolize

that they embolize it with some glue and that's what it looked like at the end and then the algorithm levels and all these patients return to near normal so a new a new frontier and lymphatic intervention so just to summarize

lymphatic imaging the current status you know we have very effective non-invasive as well as in vases imaging in the peripheral and central lymphatics we certainly need to this allows for improved diagnosis and once we have

these diagnostic capabilities we were able to come up with these novel treatments for these diseases that were previously untreatable we still don't have good ways to consistently visualize the paddocks invasively and then and

non-invasively it would be great to be able to see that hepatic and intestine lymphatics cuz that's 80% of lymphatic flow so if we can find a way to image these under mr it could be a game-changer for a lot of diseases in

terms of lymphatic interventions Calla thorax interventions greater than 90% effective technical knowledge you know when I was a trainee was really centered to just a few major medical centers now it's defusing out to more places we've

certainly shown as a proof of concept the plastic bronchitis lymphatic flow disorders cattle societies and protein losing enteropathy are all treatable and we're getting emerging experience so don't be surprised if you start to see

more requests for this more patients at your centers these are uncommon disorders that's not to say that you still won't see them every once in a while the role of lymphatics in pathophysiology is still being studied

particularly in terms of heart failure transplant as well as in different cancers in the spread one of the cool stuff that we're looking at right now is actually sampling different lymphatic fluid in different areas of the body

trying to see how the different cancers may spread and/or possibilities in immunology immuno oncology thank you guys and just something I noticed a couple weeks ago in jeopardy clear body lymph continuing white blood cells body

fluid and you guys know what is limp that's your answer so thank you saying thank you to the avir committee and it's been a pleasure [Applause]

patients may be asking you is like what about adenomyosis and I've been hearing something about that which is not exactly fibroids right it's a different entity though the symptoms could be kind of the same and for the years and years

and years we wouldn't have any options for patients who had adenomyosis in fact the only option for patients with adenomyosis is surgery but adenomyosis can coexist with fibroids and sometimes patient presents with adenomyosis alone

so we've had some studies now that have looked at that and although the data is not as robust and not as awesome as for patients with fibroids we do provide a performing bolas Asian for those patients with particles that are little

smaller than what we would use for fibroids with results as you're seen there before now the only other new thing that's on the market and it's not so new to you guys that are probably doing radial in femorals anyway working

in cardiac labs and IR labs it's actually what we call the trophy if you go back one slide for me mr. a the person and press play then we will be able to see that radial access I do not work for Merritt they don't give me a

dime I just thought that this was a good video is there volume on that at all if not I can just talk about it and really what it says is that if you need to a radial UFE or have radial axis for a uterine embolization patients just love

it more they and especially like patients that are already just intimidated they don't want you going near their groins at all they actually could just lay on the table we don't have to put up we don't put a Foley in

they just get a radial access the same way that you would just be starting in a line except we have special types of radial catheters and and sheaves to do that and I don't offer a radial access to

patients who are too tall for our catheters or if they've had multiple prior radial access and don't have an intact ulnar artery to complete their hand but it's much like any of that femoral access that you would normally

see they make special hydrophilic sheaths now they're called from this particular company slender technology where the inner diameter of the sheath essentially the sheath is the same like five French on the outside but they have

cored out the inside so it's a bigger diameter so it's a five six so on the outside it's a five but it will take a six French in the inner inner lumen and you know my practice we do more than 80% of all our arterial punctures with a

radial access and everybody here comes dr. Sean Deroche Nia who is the leading author of that paper for SI R and one of my esteemed partners so most patients are able to get up and walk out if you are go from a radial access the access

is actually closed with just a radial band and the complications of having a hematoma or having the patient's bleed out those just all go away but radial axis have their own complications so I'm not here to say that it is not that but

in our practice we found it to be safe and effective our patients want it and it's become like a practice differentiator so if you're working in a practice that don't do radial you EFI's right now you should mention it because

if you're in a population where the other providers are only doing femoral then you will automatically get the patients that only want that so here's a patient that had a radial access you can see a catheter that is coming from the

aorta while you can't see that it's not up and over the bifurcation but maybe you do can see that and there's a catheter in the uterine artery with the characteristic

shape of the uterine artery and the characteristic curlicue vessels of of the fibroid and on the left you can see the Imogen for beforehand and the Imogen on the right of post embolization where there is stagnant flow in the main

uterine not main uterine artery in the horizontal portion of the uterine artery for greater than five cardiac beads and again there's there's no reason that you have to know that level of detail except that you're scrubbing in but if you're

in the audience you're looking at this you're like dr. Newsome I see an air bubble there as well then I'd say good because because I do see it too so you can see the preimage and you can see the post image for pre and post embolization

these these procedures can be quick these procedures are very very rewarding and and I love to do it

angiography came along towards the tail end of my fellowship so around 2011-2012

actually a children's Boston initially and then subsequently done in Penn in adults and this really became as simple as doing a lymph node biopsy basically sticking it on a lymph node while it seems novel it's really

interesting because if you go back to 1931 that's actually when they started doing some of this work when they were actually injecting the lymph nodes with these different tracers and they could see so it's a combination of a little

bit of ingenuity and looking back at our history and we the way that made it a lot easier for everybody this is basically my little setup here and I used some Italian syringes a plastic opaque three way so

that the lapa doll doesn't dissolve through it the medallion syringes hold up a lot better than the typical day we used luer lock stuff I use long propofol type thin bore tubing I attached it to a nine

centimeter long 25 to 27 gauge spinal needle I take the inner styler out of that cheeba so that because it's such a skinny needle that it bends a lot and this way I can put it right into the lymph node without having to connect it

to the tubing and then I can start my injection right away the 2115 cheeba there and that scalpel are really the only other things that I need to get started to do a successful thoracic duct embolization other thing that's really

critical is I always ask my texts and nurses to slap SC D's on the patients and if once we have the SC DS it really speeds up the procedure by an hour to two because you have this constant compression of the Venus and the

lymphatics and the legs forcing more fluid to make your thing to make your case I move along more quickly so something that was more recently adopted at many medical centers and these are the type of images that you get so I

stick my needle into the lymph node and I start this injection you give this beautiful arborization of the lap I doll contrast as it continues to spread and move from one lymph node to another you see there's a central area there that

isn't filling that's actually the lymph node that's already transmitted the lap idol and this was the image that I showed you initially so same image injection injecting of different lymph nodes you can see the transit from one

area to the rest of the chain in the pelvis hepatic lymph angiography is not

I like to talk about brain infarc after Castro its of its year very symbolic a shoe and my name is first name is a shorter and probably you cannot remember my first name but probably you can remember my email address and join ovation very easy 40 years old man presenting with hematemesis and those coffee shows is aphasia verax and gastric barracks and how can i use arrow arrow on the monitor no point around yes so so you can see the red that red that just a beside the endoscopy image recent bleeding at the gastric barracks

so the breathing focus is gastric paddocks and that is a page you're very X and it is can shows it's a page of Eric's gastric barracks and chronic poor vein thrombosis with heaviness transformation of poor vein there is a spline or inertia but there is no gas drawer in urgent I'm sorry tough fast fast playing anyway bleeding focus is gastric barracks but in our hospital we don't have expert endoscopist

for endoscopy crew injections or endoscopic reinjection is not an option in our Hospital and I thought tips may be very very difficult because of chronic Peruvian thrombosis professors carucha tri-tips in this patient oh he is very busy and there is a no gas Torino Shanta so PRT o is not an option so we decided to do percutaneous there is your embolization under under I mean there are many ways to approach it

but under urgent settings you do what you can do best quickly oh no that's right yes and and this patience main program is not patent cameras transformation so percutaneous transit party approach may have some problem and we also do transit planning approach and this kind of patient has a splenomegaly and splenic pain is big enough to be punctured by ultrasonography and i'm a tips beginner so I don't like tips in this difficult

case so transplanting punch was performed by ultrasound guidance and you can see Carolus transformation of main pervane and splenorenal shunt and gastric varices left gastric we know officios Castries bezier varices micro catheter was advanced and in geography was performed you can see a Terrell ID the vascular structure so we commonly use glue from be brown company and amputee cyanoacrylate MBC is mixed with Italy

powder at a time I mixed 1 to 8 ratio so it's a very thin very thin below 11% igloo so after injection of a 1cc of glue mixture you can see some glue in the barracks but some glue in the promontory Audrey from Maneri embolism and angiography shows already draw barracks and you can also see a subtraction artifact white why did you want to be that distal

why did you go all the way up to do the glue instead of starting lower i usually in in these procedures i want to advance the microcatheter into the paddocks itself and there are multiple collateral channels so if i in inject glue at the proximal portion some channels can be occluded about some channels can be patent so complete embolization of verax cannot be achieved and so there are multiple paths first structures so multiple injection of glue is needed

anyway at this image you can see rigid your barracks and subtraction artifacting in the promenade already and probably renal artery or pyramid entry already so it means from one area but it demands is to Mogambo region patient began to complain of headache but american ir most american IRS care the patient but Korean IR care the procedure serve so we continue we kept the procedure what's a little headache right to keep you from completing your

procedure and I performed Lippitt eight below embolization again and again so I used 3 micro catheters final angel officio is a complete embolization of case repair ax patients kept complaining of headache so after the procedure we sent at a patient to the city room and CT scan shows multiple tiny high attenuated and others in the brain those are not calcification rapado so it means systemic um embolization Oh bleep I adore mixtures

of primitive brain in park and patient just started to complain of blindness one day after diffusion-weighted images shows multiple car brain in park so how come this happen unfortunately I didn't know that Porter from Manila penis anastomosis at the time one article said gastric barracks is a connectivity read from an airy being by a bronchial venous system and it's prevalence is up to 30 percent so normally blood flow blood in the barracks drains into the edge a

ghost vein or other systemic collateral veins and then drain into SVC right heart and promontory artery so from what embolism may have fun and but in most cases in there it seldom cause significant cranker problem but in this case barracks is a connectivity the promontory being fired a bronchial vein and then glue mixture can drain into the rapture heart so glue training to aorta and system already causing brain in fog or systemic embolism so let respectively

other things that we look at tools that we use include the ankle and toe brachial indices those are these at blood pressure comparisons between the

arm and the foot or the toe the great first toe we use segmental pressures your blood pressures and multiple levels down the leg pulse volume recordings which look very similar with cuffs down the leg but they're looking at the size

of the leg per heartbeat PPG's which is basically pulse ox for the four individual toes TCP o2 which is very important and not used enough which is looking at the oxygen tension within the tissue itself and skin perfusion

pressure so ABI as I mentioned as a comparison the arm and the leg pressures and people with CLI often have an ABI less than point for the pressures gonna be less than 50 millimeters in mercury so the ABI may be falsely elevated

people who have chronic kidney disease because the vessels get calcified and they don't compress very well when you blow up the cuff increasing it above 0.45 after if it's been below that is somewhat predictive of wound healing but

not that helpful at the time of an angiogram so as the higher the two pressures is often used to calculate this because you have two pressures and each leg right you have it dorsalis pedis pressure that

you can get and you have posterior tibial so the way that you do in ABI is you look at the higher of the two and compare that to your arm pressure so just remember if your ulcer is being supplied by the vessel that's got the

lower pressure than your ABI is could be normal you could still have CLI so again not always that helpful the toe brachial indices is a it is a little bit more helpful people with diabetes only because the toe arteries tend not to

calcify as quickly in these patients less than 0.75 is considered abnormal and increasing it up into the normal range of course is predictive of fluid wound healing so limitations these only really look at

the macro vascular so that you know the named ves blood vessel patency they don't really tell you what's going on at the level of the capillaries and a recent meta-analysis suggests that neither of them can be consistently

relied upon as okay it came to a normal range we're definitely not gonna get an amputation now so I think I really do have to press both buttons each time so the systolic pressure measurements for segmental pressures you basically look

at the pressures on multiple levels of down the leg a drop of greater than 20 is considered significant and then severity of a number of lesions can't be totally determined from that again this only really tells you what's going on in

the named vessels pulse volume recordings these are cuffs that are looking at the volume of the limb with each pulse it's helpful and patients would they have non compressible vessels because the leg actually has a it's a

microscopic but detectable increase in size with each pulse and so this is better in people who have non compressible vessels and changes in PVR's often will actually precede angiographic findings CTA findings and

recent publication from the s from the society vascular surgery however calls into question their usefulness compared to a bi alone the good pictures are coming soon so this is an example what you may see in

the chart for some of your patients with critical limb ischemia so this is actually segmental pressure and pulse while recording from where I trained in Miami and basically what we're looking at is a combination of things on one of

these sheets so the pressures are listed in the middle but each sheet is going to be different depending on your institution so you're looking for a big drop and pressure from one level to the next so if you look for example in the

middle at the right leg you know there's a 176 in the arm and then there's a 126 in the high thigh normally because of gravity you should have an increase in flow at that level so that's already I have normal on the right side and then

progressing down any grade any drop greater than 20 suggested that something may be abnormal at that level PPG's these are really good for detecting what may be going on at the foot or lower levels so you transmit an infrared

signal through the toe and then try to see how much of that light comes out the other side essentially and so the amount of it it's depending on how much bloods in the digit and the flow the flow of the blood vessels so if you had a

previously flatlined signal then restoring a pulsatile signal is considered a and it you know an approved marker of tissue perfusion so this is essential in patients who have distal ulcers particularly in the level of the

toe because restoring you see you've probably all seen those of you that work in labs that do a lot of peripheral disease seen an angio graphic result where you get flow down to like the mid foot but you see no perfusion down to

the digits and unfortunately that's often not going to be enough to heal a wound so the PPG's are something I try to get in all patients who have tote tote ones so there's an example of a patient who

has flatline and all five digits on the right foot and we recant alized their anterior tibial artery and had flow all the way down there and there was a wound blush in the toe and this is the restore pulsatilla T in all five digits the next

day so at our institution now and also I've modeled after what it was with my training which is the day after the procedure we keep all these patients overnight we get an ABI i segmental pressures and pulsefire

recordings and PPG's and anyone who has flat waveforms in them in their foot level or anybody with a toll sir and if possible we try to get a duplex which you get which I'll go over next it's not always reimbursable at all institutions

if you do them in the same day though so TCP o2 as I mentioned is something that's a little underutilized I think the the task two recommendations that we actually use to stratify the different types of disease and perf arterial

disease suggest that all patients with CLI should have this testing done but it's hard because patients have to not smoke and not drink coffee or tea the morning of the exam and that's hard to get patients to do you have to keep the

room temperature controlled and so it's office availability is limited so an improvement values greater than forty millimeters of mercury in the area surrounding an ulcer suggests that it's going to have successful healing so we

often will do this before we take the patient for an angiogram as a baseline and then bring them back afterwards and if we're if we have a very large increase that you know that's a good sign but of course we're our goal is

usually to be greater than forty and it's one of the few of these tests that's actually useful in patients who don't have Doppler signals so this is a totally not fake wound on this right foot this is example of what it looks

like you basically put multiple probes around the area of the foot and you're testing for the different oxygen tensions skin perfusion pressures is analogous but slightly different basically you're inflating a cop over

different areas of tissue and until the blood flow stops and then slowly deflating it until you can detect light being transmitted through that area again greater than thirty values or predictive of wound healing a lot of

numbers and there will be a test at the end of this so this is a chart kind of showing the ischemic wounds healing likelihood is correlated with an increase in the skin perfusion pressure so if you're less than 30 you're

unlikely to heal if you're greater than 40 it's most likely not an excuse mcquown and you should start looking at other ideologies like venous disease or neuropath neuropathic disease or infection duplex ultrasound is extremely

so just a compliment what we everybody's talked about I think a great introduction for diagnosing PID the imaging techniques to evaluate it some of the Loney I want to talk about some of the above knee interventions no disclosures when it sort of jumped into

a little bit there's a 58 year old male who has a focal non-healing where the right heel now interestingly we when he was referred to me he was referred to for me for a woman that they kept emphasizing at the anterior end going

down the medial aspect of the heel so when I literally looked at that that was really a venous stasis wound so he has a mixed wound and everybody was jumping on that wound but his hour till wound was this this right heel rudra category-five

his risk factors again we talked about diabetes being a large one that in tandem with smoking I think are the biggest risk factors that I see most patient patients with wounds having just as we talked about earlier we I started

with a non-invasive you can see on the left side this is the abnormal side the I'm sorry the right leg is the abnormal the left leg is the normal side so you can see the triphasic waveforms the multiphasic waveforms on the left the

monophasic waveforms immediately at the right I don't typically do a lot of cross-sectional imaging I think a lot of information can be obtained just from the non-invasive just from this the first thing going through my head is he

has some sort of inflow disease with it that's iliac or common I'll typically follow within our child duplex to really localize the disease and carry out my treatment I think a quick comment on a little bit of clinicals so these

waveforms will correlate with your your Honourable pencil Doppler so one thing I always emphasize with our staff is when they do do those audible physical exams don't tell me whether there's simply a Doppler waveform or a Doppler pulse I

don't really care if there's not that means their leg would fall off what I care about is if monophasic was at least multiphasic that actually tells me a lot it tells me a lot afterwards if we gain back that multiphase the city but again

looking at this a couple of things I can tell he has disease high on the right says points we can either go PITA we can go antegrade with no contralateral in this case I'll be since he has hide he's used to the right go contralateral to

the left comment come on over so here's the angio I know NGOs are difficult Aaron when there's no background so just for reference I provided some of the anatomy so this is the right you know groin area

right femur so the right common from artery and SFA you have a downward down to the knee so here's the pop so if we look at this he has Multi multi multiple areas of disease I would say that patients that have above knee disease

that have wounds either have to level disease meaning you have iliac and fem-pop or they at least have to have to heal disease typically one level disease will really be clot against again another emphasis a lot of these patients

since they're not very mobile they're not very ambulatory this these patients often come with first a wound or rest pain so is this is a patient was that example anyway so what we see again is the multifocal occlusions asta knows

he's common femoral origin a common femoral artery sfa origin proximal segment we have a occlusion at the distal sfa so about right here past the air-duct iratus plus another occlusion at the mid pop to talk about just again

the tandem disease baloney he also has a posterior tibial occlusion we talked about the fact that angio some concept so even if I treat all of this above I have to go after that posterior tibial to get to that heel wound and complement

the perineal so ways to reach analyze you know the the biggest obstacle here is on to the the occlusions i want to mention some of the devices out there I'm not trying to get in detail but just to make it reader where you know there's

the baiance catheter from atronics essentially like a little metal drill it wobbles and tries to find the path of least resistance to get through the occlusion the cross or device from bard is a device that is essentially or what

I call is a frakking device they're examples they'll take a little peppermint they'll sort of tap away don't roll the hole peppermint so it's like a fracking device essentially it's a water jet

that's pulse hammering and then but but to be honest I think the most effective method is traditional wire work sorry about that there are multiple you know you're probably aware of just CTO wires multi weighted different gramm wires 12

gram 20 gram 30 gram wires I tend to start low and go high so I'll start with the 12 gram uses supporting micro catheter like a cxi micro catheter a trailblazer and a B cross so to look at here the sheath I've placed a sheet that

goes into the SFA I'm attacking the two occlusions first the what I used is the micro catheter about an 1/8 micro catheter when the supporting my catheters started with a trailblazer down into the crossing the first

occlusion here the first NGO just shows up confirmed that I'm still luminal right I want to state luminal once I've crossed that first I've now gone and attacked the second occlusion across that occlusion so once I've cross that

up confirm that I'm luminal and then the second question is what do you want to do with that there's gonna be a lot of discussions on whether you want Stan's direct me that can be hold hold on debate but I think a couple of things we

can agree we're crossing their courageous we're at the pop if we can minimize standing that region that be beneficial so for after ectomy couple of flavors there's the hawk device which

essentially has a little cutter asymmetrical cutter that allows you to actually shave that plaque and collect that plaque out there's also a horrible out there device that from CSI the dime back it's used to sort of really sort of

like a plaque modifier and softened down that plaque art so in this case I've used this the hawk device the hawk has a little bit of a of a bend in the proximal aspect of the catheter that lets you bias the the device to shape

the plaque so here what I've done you there you can see the the the the the teeth itself so you can tell we're lateral muta Liz or right or left is but it's very hard to see did some what's AP and posterior so usually

what I do is I hop left and right I turned the I about 45 degrees and now to hawk AP posterior I'm again just talking left to right so I can always see where the the the the AP ended so I can always tell without the the teeth

are angioplasty and then here once I'm done Joan nice caliber restored flow restored then we attacked the the common for most enosis and sfa stenosis again having that device be able to to an to direct

that device allows me to avoid sensing at the common femoral the the plaque is resolved from the common femoral I then turn it and then attack the the plaque on the lateral aspect again angioplasty restore flow into the common firm on the

proximal SFA so that was the there's the plaque that you can actually obtain from that Hawk so you're physically removing that that plaque so so that's you know that's the the restoration that flow just just you know I did attack the

posterior tibial I can cross that area I use the diamond back for that balloon did open it up second case is a woman

kind of the embolic protection because I think with carotid artery stenting the stents there's a lot of different types they're all self expanding for the most

part and there's not a lot to talk about there but there is with regards to embolic protection and there so there's distal and violent protection where you have this where that blue little sheath in the common carotid artery you got a

wire through the ica stenosis and a little basket or filter distally before you put the stent in early on they used to think oh maybe we'll do distal balloon occlusion put a balloon up distally do your intervention aspirate

whatever collects behind the balloon and then take the balloon down not so ideal because you never really asked for it a hundred percent of the debris and then whatever whenever you deflate the balloon it goes back it goes up to the

brain you still have some embolic phenomenon in the cerebral vascular churn and then there's this newer concept of proximal protection where you use either flow reversal reverse the blood flow in the cerebral circulation

or you actually cause a stagnant column of blood in the ica so you can't get you don't get anything that embolize is up distally but you have this stagnant column the debris collects there you aspirate that actively before you take

down the balloons that are in position in the X carotids and common carotid artery and then you take everything out so let's walk through each of these if you really wanted to pick out the perfect embolic

protection device it's got to be relatively easy to use it's got to be stable in position so it's not moving up and down and causing injury to the vessel but even while it's in place cerebral perfusion is maintained so that

balloon the distal balloon not a great idea because you're cutting off all the blood flow to the brain you might stop something from embolizing up distally but in the process of doing that you may patient may not tolerate that you want

complete protection during all aspects of the procedure so when we place a filter as you'll see just crossing the lesion with the initial filter can cause a distal embolus so that's a problem you want to be able to use your guide wire

choice as many of you know when we go through peripheral vasculature there's your go-to wires but it doesn't always work every time with that one go-to wire so you want to be able to pick the wire that you want to use or

change it up if needed for different lesions so if you get to use your wire of choice then then that's gonna be a better system than something that's man deter and then if you have a hard time using that wire to get across the lesion

you have a problem overall and then ultimately where do you land that protection device and a few diagrams here to help illustrate this generally speaking these distal embolic protection these filters that go beyond

the lesion have been used for quite a while and are relatively safe you can see them pretty easily and geographically they have little markers on them that signify if they're open or closed and we look for that overall and

blood flows through them it's just a little sieve a little basket that collects really tiny particles micrometers in size but allows blood flow to pass through it so you're not actually causing any cessation of blood

flow to the brain but you are protecting yourself from that embolic debris and it's generally well tolerated overall we had really good results in fact when not using this device there's a lot of strokes that were occurring in use of

this device dramatic reduction so a significant improvement in this procedural area by utilization of embolic protection however distal embolic protection or filter devices are not a perfect APD as you as you may know

those of you have been involved in carotid stenting there is no cerebral protection when you cross the lesion if you have a curlicue internal carotid artery this filter doesn't sit right and and ultimately may not cause

good protection or actually capture everything that breaks off the plaque and it can be difficult to deliver in those really tortuous internal carotid arteries so ultimately you can cross the lesion but you may not get this filter

up if you don't get the filter up you can't put the stent then ultimately you're out of luck so you gotta have a different option filters may not provide complete cerebral protection if they're not fully opposed and again it does

allow passage of really tiny particles right so your blood cells have to be able to pass but even though it's less than about a hundred microns may be significant enough to cause a significant stroke if it goes to the

right basket of territory so it's not perfect protection and then if you have so much debris you can actually overload the filter fill it up in tile and entirely and then you have a point where when you capture the filter there's some

residual debris that's never fully captured either so these are concerns and then ultimately with that filter in place you can cause a vessel dissection when you try to remove it or if it's bouncing up and down without good

stability you can cause spasm to the vessel as well and so these are the things that we look for frequently because we want to make sure that ultimately if we just sent the lesion but we don't believe the vessel distal

to it intact and we're going to have a problem so here's some kind of illustrated diagrams for this here's a sheath in the common carotid artery you see your plaque lesion in the internal carotid artery and you're trying to

cross this with that filter device that's what's the picture on the right but as you're crossing that lesion you're you're liberating a little plaque or debris which you see here and during that period of time until the filters in

place you're not protected so all that debris is going up to the brain so there's that first part of the procedure where you're not protected that's one of the pitfalls or concerns particularly with very stenotic lesions or friable

lesions like this where you're not protected until that filters in place that first step you never are protected in placement of a filter here's an example where you have a torturous internal carotid artery so you see this

real kink these are kinds of carotid internal carotid arteries that we can see and if you place that filter in that bend that you can see right at the bend there the bottom part the undersurface of the carotid doesn't have good wall

my position of the filter so debris can can slip past the filter on the under under surface of this which is a real phenomenon and you can see that you can say well what if we oversize the filter if you oversize the filter then it then

it just oval eyes Azure or it crimps and in folds on itself so you really have to size this to the specific vessel that you plan to target it in but just the the physics of this it's it's a tube think about a balloon a balloon doesn't

conform to this it tries to straighten everything out this isn't going to straighten the vessel out so it doesn't fully conform on the full end of the filter and you have incomplete a position and therefore

incomplete filtration so this is another failure mode I mentioned before what if it gets overloaded so here's a diagram where you have all this debris coming up it's filling up the really tiny tiny particles go past it because this little

micro sieve allows really small particles to go distal but approximately it's overloaded so now you get all this debris in there you place your stent you take your retrieval filter or catheter to take this filter out and all that

stuff that's sitting between the overloaded filter and your stent then gets liberated and goes up to the brain so you got to worry about that as well I mentioned this scenario that it builds up so much so that you can't get all the

debris out and ultimately you lose some and then when the filter is full and debris particles that are suspended near the stent or if you put that filter too close to the edge of the stent you run into problems where it may catch the

stent overall and you have all of this debris and it looks small and you don't really see it and geographically obviously but ultimately is when you do a stroke assessment and it's not always devastating strokes but mild symptoms

where he had a stroke neurologist and the crest trial or most of the more recent clinical trials we actually evaluate a patient and notice that they had small maybe sub sub clinical or mild strokes that were noted they weren't

perhaps devastating strokes but they had things that caused some degree of disability so not insignificant here's a case example of a carotid stent that was done this is a case out of Arizona proximal carotid

stenosis stent placed but then distal thrombus that developed in this case and had post rhombus removal after the epd was removed so there's thrombus overloaded the the filter you can see the filter at the very top of the center

image you can see the sort of the shadow of the embolic protection device there distally aspirated that took the filter out and then ultimately removed but you can imagine that amount of thrombus up in the brain would have been a

devastating stroke and this is what the filter looks like in real life so this is what the debris may look like so it's not this is not overloaded but that's significant debris and you can see the little film or sieve that's on the

distal part of this basket and that's what captures the debris any of that in the brain is gonna leave this patient with a residual stroke despite a successful stenting procedure so this is what we're trying to avoid so in spite

to have severe humor billion almost all all those that need your attention is about aghori portal veins though can be tremendously so the differentiation between hepatic artery and portal vein

bleeding is the big differentiator that will require you to do something about it most of the times if you injure the portal vein or hepatic vein these usually heal by themselves and it's counterintuitive the management of this

is actually to upsize your tube and they make sure the side holes are not adjacent to the bleeding vein it's crossing so it's counterintuitive that you upsize - for bleeding injure the vein more but

eventually those veins will thromboses off for that little branch the difficult situations of sahiba heavy hit an artery and here's one way we did a gram you can see the pacification the reason why you want to go into the peripheral duct I'll

show you always near the hilum is actually also very big blood are the blood vessels and the reason why we go peripheral the number of large vessels are much greater diminished so you always want in this patient was

transferred for an outside Hospital my PTC was performed by someone who obviously doesn't do a lot of these and access directly into the coma bar duct you can see all these filling defects all these filling defects in the combat

like those or clots and filled with someone who's actually had life-threatening significant he Mobilia and required what we did was they were just pacify the system get another peripheral access

right biliary system and embolize the track coming out and thereby removing the original axis that was placed by the outside hospital interventionists obviously the ones that aureus the most of the narco that will kill people is

the ones that hit our ease and pseudoaneurysm formation or tara Venus fistulas and I can be problematic in my only real ways their dresses trans cap the treatments a patient would have an angio we'd have to get into the pedagogy

find the feeding or it almost always though and we can predict way that bleeding artery is it's where your Y is crossing the architecture of the artery tree frequently you will not see it until you remove the tube so almost

always you would have to prep the right flank prep the groin to an angiogram with the tube in because you don't really want to be rushing at the beginning of your procedure you frequently do the angiogram not see

bleeding and then a second operator needs the described brake scrub get non sterile axes remove the blue tube repeat the angiogram and almost certainly then you'll see it but again it's very

predictable where it is but every now and then you get caught out and the bleeding side can be remote from where your actual Y or actual access transgressor you you do need to have a careful eye looking for that and so you

know when we looked at out and we do large numbers of blurry drainage the best predictor or and like I said Arturo Kimber Billy is actually related to your first tube and the size that you place and it's also

interesting like I said every now and then you're gonna see that bleeding arteries are actually not liver arteries and you can't bleed from the GDA internal memory from other procedures intercostal artery from where you put

your tube first needle through the liver through sorry through the ribs itself it's actually access site rather than your internal parenchymal your liver so it's actually important to also do sometimes it a water gram check the

intercostal artery because you'll miss it by doing a celiac or teragrams hepatic artery gram and don't understand why the patients still bleeding and here's just example of what a pseudoaneurysm does when we remove the

chief we can see the image on the right the blue tube has mean withdraw back and they you can see quite clearly there and sorry the pseudoaneurysm of the paddock right re and like any other immunization is important to go front door back door

implies across mainly because the liver architecture has a rich collateralization that will feed before and after and like I said the lake complication zone was or derived and related to tube maintenance and tubes

catching on to things in dislodgement and so these are just really you know your whoever answers the phones whether it's the physicians on call they have to manage with maintenance of these tubes and really just keeping these tubes open

as long as possible it's amazing how long some of these tubes do last in particular in benign but Lewis structures so management of these is really or expectant and the right advice and frequently just need to

get these tubes changements they're clogged sufficiently the difficult ones

and so indeed the the national complete different we have only 17 IR but they are all very well trained even from from the US or from from Europe and they are like in about 10 major hospitals so a

very comprehensive program over there with its vascular nonvascular a lot of neural intervention either a big Hawk center actually in our Institute and the private specs are not very powerful we can find of course

Vasco start working without IR and performing all the end of us for position as well but we with the low volume I would say so what happens also in in the last dickhead in UAE is that the government decided to reshape

rebuild the healthcare system one of the important thing that they made their partner with the Cleveland Clinic Foundation in the US and and they were mu bada with a big government entity over there in terms of a very powerful

entity and they decide to perform and to to establish the Cleveland Clinic Abu Dhabi so to give you an idea this is the hospital into the island they built the island the hospital within seven years so again just given Aviva the weather is

very big company with 100 000 employees and mother had cage only one small aspect of this entity so we establish in a kind of Cleveland Clinic Abu Dhabi model because we start from scratch we are very lucky because there was no we

tried to avoid the turf battles over there so we we kind of have an integrated care model with the multi simply approaches are written implemented and this helped us a lot because I is in the or which means

behind the red line so everything is hybrid rooms with table dedicated to two or as well and I know how to go to all the details but it helped us a lot to establish a very lot of hybrid procedures whether it's a vascular

surgery drastic surgery urology and so on so now we would like to finish and

there a better option this is where a carotid artery stenting was developed over a couple decades ago and this is a

less invasive viable option for treating carotid artery stenosis it was generally started off as a trends ephemeral approach but I'll show you what the new approach is that many of us are involved in it involves the use of

in volunteer tection so it's one of the unique vascular territories where embolic protection is required if you're gonna get Medicare reimbursement for this you have to involvement and bollocky protection if you do without

you can do the procedure but you won't get it you won't get reimbursed and ultimately it's it was proven to show much better outcomes if you use involved protection because even doing the procedure and trying to place the stent

there is some small embolic degree that that that shuttles off and if it happens in the foot you may or may not lose a toe but if it happens in the brain you're gonna lose brain cells and it's gonna be potentially catastrophic so

significant adjunct to the stenting procedure is doing embolic protection and there's two types of embolic protection there's distal and there's proximal I'll walk through each of those with some diagrams here and then anyone

that gets a carotid stent has to be on dual antiplatelet therapy so if they have an allergy they're unable to be on aspirin and plavix they don't get a stent because there's early stent thrombosis that can't occur in these

patients if they don't have that dual antiplatelet therapy so let's go through

briefly about meet symposia meet symposia is basically a group of meetings or symposia there's meet IO

which is interventional oncology meet a Horta which is a auric work and vascular disease as well as meet stroke which is neuro IR as well as vascular vascular embolization for neuro as well super vascular disease there have been three

annual meetings held in January of every year this is kind of the physician attendance there with a large number of speakers half of these speakers 50 50 of these speakers lasts here three months ago were from were from the u.s. from

the USA they are this meeting is endorsed and supported with presence of leadership from guests from spectrum that's another meeting in the u.s. from SAR with a collaborative meeting as well as iMac which is a Middle Eastern

heavily Egyptian a or tech a or tech meet meeting for for aortic disease next

know we're running a bit short on time so I want to briefly just touch about

some techniques with comb beam CT which are very helpful to us there are a lot of reasons why you should use comb beam CT it gives us the the most extensive anatomic understanding of vascular territories and the implications for

that with oncology are extremely valuable because of things like margin like we discussed here's an example of a patient who had a high AF P and their bloodstream which tells us that they have a cancer in her liver we can't see

it on the CT there but if you do a cone beam CT it stands up quite nicely why because you're giving levels of contrast that if you were to give them through a peripheral IV it would be toxic to the patient but when you're infusing into a

segment the body tolerates at the problem so patient preparation anxa lysis is key you have them exhale above three seconds prior to that there's a lot of change to how we're doing this people who are introducing radial access

power injection anywhere from about 50 to even sometimes thirty to a hundred percent contrast depends on what phase you're imaging we have a Animoto power injector that allows us to slide what contrast concentration we like a lot of

times people just rely on 30% and do their whole the case with that some people do a hundred percent image quality this is what it looks like when someone's breathing this is very difficult to tell if there's complete

lesion enhancement so if you do your comb beam CT know it looks like this this is trying to coach the patient and try to get them to hold still and then this is the patient after coaching which looks like this so you can tell that you

have a missing portion of the lesion and you have to treat into another segment what about when you're doing an angio and you do a cone beam CT NIT looks like this this is what insufficient counts looks like on comb beam so when you see

these sort of Shell station lines that are going all over the screen you have to raise dose usually in larger patients but this is you know you either slow down the acquisition speed of your comb beam or

you raise dose this is what it looks like after we gave it a higher dose protocol it really changes everything those lines are still there but they're much smaller how do you know if you have enhancement or a narrow artifact you can

repeat with non-contrast CT and give the patient glucagon and you can find the small very these small arteries that pick off the left that commonly profuse the stomach the right gastric artery you can use your comb beam CT to find

non-target evaluation even when your angio doesn't suggest it so this is a patient they have recurrent HCC we didn't angio from here those arteries down there where those coils were looked funny even though the patient was

quote-unquote coiled off we did a comb beam CT and that little squiggly C shape structures that duodenum that's contrast going in it this would be probably a lethal event for the patient or certainly would require surgery if you

treated that much with y9t reposition the catheter deeper towards the lesion and you can repeat your comb beam CT and see that you don't have an hands minh sometimes you have these little accessory left gastric artery this is

where we really need your help you know a lot of times everyone's focused and I think the more eyes the better for these kind of things but we're looking for these little tiny vessels that sometimes hop out of the liver and back into the

stomach or up into the esophagus there's a very very small right gastric artery in this picture here this patient post hepatectomy that rides along the inferior surface of the liver it's a little curly cube so and this is a small

esophageal branch so when you do comb beam TT this is what the stomach looks like when it enhances and this is what the esophagus looks like when it enhances you can do non contrast comb beam CTS to confirm ablation so you have

a lesion this is the comb beam CT for enhancement you treat with your embolic and this is a post to determine that you've had completely shin coverage and you can see how that correlates a response so the last thing we're going

craft is basically the only FDA approved stain crafts and I'll show you a

different way of doing it as well besides the Viator especially in countries where the Viator does not does not exist okay the Viator stand sits in the liver just like just like in my hand here the bare

portion is on the portal venous circulation the covered portion is basically on the hepatic vein part of the circulation okay the bare portion is chain-linked and is very flexible that's why kind of cut can crimp like that okay

they're both self expanding the bare portion is self expanding held by the sheath only the covered portion is held by a court okay so they're both self expanding but they're constraints by two different two different two different

methods one's a sheath constraint and one is a is a cord constraint okay these are the measurements the bare portion theoretically allows portal flow to pass if you're in a branch so it doesn't cost from boses of the portal vein branch in

the covered portion is important to cover the parental tract the youth that you've created in the past you had a lot of billary leaks into the tips if it's a bear stance bile is from by genic so it causes thromboses bile also instigates a

lot of reactionary tissue such as pseudo intimal hyperplasia that actually causes the narrowings of the of these tips if you causing bear stance the coverage stance prevents the bile leaks from actually leaking into into the shunt

itself okay and that's why it has a higher patency rate okay ideally this is how it's it's a portal vein and hepatic vein you'll hear people say proximal and distal you'll he'll hear radiologists especially diagnostic

radiologist referring to proximal and distal proximal and distal some people refer to the portal venous and is proximal some people refer to the paddock venous and is proximal and vice versa okay and it

gets confusing nobody knows well what's proximal okay the people that say portal venous and is proximal there they're talking about its proximal to flow so it's basically the first thing that flow hits people that

call the paddock venous and proximal they're talking relatives of the body more central is proximal more peripheral is distal okay so they're using these the same terminology is very confusing so the best thing to use and I we tell

that to radiologists who tell that to IRS is to talk a portal venous and hepatic venous end you don't talk proximal distal everybody knows where the portal venous end is and where everybody knows where the peregrinus end

is and there's no confusion strictly speaking which is the correct one which is proximal for us as IRS tax nurses proximal is always to flow proximal is always anticipate to flow so the correct thing is actually proximal

is the portal venous ends remember P proximal P portal okay proximal is where the expected flow is coming in that's actually the correct one but just to leave e8 the confusion portal venous and hepatic venous end okay there's a new

stents which is the controlled expansion stents it's in my opinion it feels exactly like the old stance the only difference between it is that it's constrained still has the same twenty to twenty millimeter or two centimeter bare

portion chain-linked it still has that four to eight centimeter covered portion but it's constrained in the middle okay and has the same gold ring to actually market the to the to a bare portion and the cover portion self expanding portion

and is constrained down to eight millimeters you can dilate it to eight and nine and ten initially there was a constant there was a misconception that it was like a string like a purse string that you break and jumps from eight

and no this is actually truly a controlled where if you put a nine-millimeter balloon it will dilate to nine only eight balloon little dialect to eight only the only the only key thing is that the atmospheres has to

be ten millimeters at least okay so it has to be a high pressure balloon has to be at least 10 min 10 10 atmospheres okay so when you're passing that that balloon over make sure that it's that that it that at least it's burst is 10

millimeters or or EXA or more on a 10 mil on on 10 atmospheres okay next thing is when you're making a needle pass you got your target now with a co2 you got the portal vein you've got your stank craft and you know how it works okay how

do you make your needle pass okay and how do you know if your needle has hit the portal vein or not there are two schools to do this okay one school is to make a needle pass and aspirate as you pull back and when you get blood back

you basically inject contrast okay before you do all that when you make your needle pass you push saline and especially if you do if you're using a large system so there are several kits out there there is the cook kits that's

a color pinto needle that's a large gauge 14 gauge needle there is the new gore kits which is also 14 gauge needle it's a big system these large systems you need to push out that poor plug that's kind of like a biopsy you have to

push it out with saline first and then as you pull back aspirate okay the other system is a ratio cheetah or a Rocha cheetah it's actually pronounced rasa schita and that's a very small system that there won't be a core that you have

to push out okay so anyway if you're using a large system like a coop into a needle which is the cook system or the gore system you push that plug out and then there are two schools school two aspirates you get blood back you inject

contrast if you're in the hepatic in in the portal vein you basically access it with a wire the other school is to do a ptc style you actually puff contrasts as you pull back you do not ask for H saline you actually puff

contrasts as you pull back okay the latter puffing contrasts as you pull back is the minority I would say less than two percent of operators are gonna puff okay ninety-eight percent of operators at

least are gonna actually aspirate and not puff okay I'm actually in the minority I'm in the 2% and there are advantages and disadvantages like I promised you two different ways and advantages and disadvantage to each to

each one the advantages of puffing contrasts even if you missed the portal vein after a while you actually get contrast around the portal vein and you actually have a visual of the portal vein that's the advantage so when you're

actually injecting contrast and you're missing it you get contrast around the portal vein it actually goes around the portal and you actually see the portal vein and it takes training sometimes this one's easy

okay I'll show you some more difficult ones but this is a beautiful pussy typical portal vein okay in addition to that oh go back in do you see that you see that hole in the middle there see that signal signal you watch that

because you're gonna see it again and again that's usually a posterior portal vein posterior right portal vein heading heading away from you okay that's usually a good target and I'll show you that again here's a little

little bit less obvious to the untrained eye but this is actually where the portal vein sits right there okay so sometimes it needs training right just actually see where the portal vein is and once you've stained the portal vein

then you have a real-time image of where the portal vein is you can actually go go after it and it reduces your needle passes disadvantages of using contrast and puffing away is that it creates a mess okay if you make multiple passes

you and you miss on the multiple passes then you start creating a mess and even with your DSA you can't even see the portal you can't see the portal vein because you've got this great mess another disadvantage of using contrast

is that you have to stomach what you're gonna see okay you make a needle pass and you don't inject contrast you have no proof of where you've been but if you're making a needle pass and you're

injecting contrast you and everybody else is gonna see where you've been that's usually not a good thing sometimes you will see bowel you see gold bladder you'll see arteries you'll see veins you'll see all sorts of stuff

that nobody wants to see and you don't want to document okay so that's another disadvantage so I recommend especially young physicians especially young physicians in places that are not used to this especially young physicians that

are new to hospitals and they're gonna they're gonna make multiple passes not to do this was they're gonna be very they'll be criticized a lot by their texts and by the institution by their colleagues as to what have you done you

know big mass artery you've hit artery but the guys and gals that are just aspirating and not injecting they're actually not documenting what they're going through but they're going through the same stuff okay

okay next up this I think this video yep

now other causes this is a little bit different different scenario here but it's not always just as simple as all

there's leaky valves in the gonadal vein that are causing these symptoms this is 38 year old Lafleur extremity swelling presented to our vein clinic has evolved our varicosities once you start to discuss other symptoms she does have

pelvic pain happiness so we're concerned about about pelvic congestion and I'll mention here that if I hear someone with exactly the classic symptoms I won't necessarily get a CT scan or an MRI because again that'll give me secondary

evidence and it won't tell me whether the veins are actually incompetent or not and so you know I have a discussion with the patient and if they are deathly afraid of having a procedure and don't want to have a catheter that goes

through the heart to evaluate veins then we get cross-sectional imaging and we'll look for secondary evidence if we have the secondary evidence then sometimes those patients feel more comfortable going through a procedure some patients

on the other hand will say well if it's not really gonna tell me whether the veins incompetent or not why don't we just do the vena Graham and we'll get the the definite answer whether there's incompetence or not and you'll be able

to treat it at the same time so in this case we did get imaging she wanted to take a look and it was you know shame on me because it's it's a good thing we did because this is not the typical case for pelvic venous congestion what we found

is evidence of mather nur and so mather nur is compression of the left common iliac vein by the right common iliac artery and what that can do is cause back up of pressure you'll see her huge verax here and here for you guys

huge verax in that same spot and so this lady has symptoms of pelvic venous congestion but it's not because of valvular incompetence it's because of venous outflow obstruction so Mather 'nor like I mentioned is compression of

that left common iliac vein from the right common iliac artery as shown here and if you remember on the cartoon slide for pelvic congestion I'm showing a dilated gonna delve a non the left here but in this case we have obstruction of

the common iliac vein that's causing back up of pressure the blood wants to sort of decompress itself or flow elsewhere and so it backed up into the internal iliac veins and are causing her symptoms along with her of all of our

varicosities and just a slide describing everything i just said so i don't think we have to reiterate that the treatments could you go back one on that I think I did skip over that treatments from a thern er really are also endovascular

it's really basically treating that that compression portion and decompressing the the pelvic system and so here's our vena Graham you can see that huge verax down at the bottom and an occluded iliac vein so classic Mather nur but causing

that pelvic varicosity and the pelvic congestion see huge pelvic laterals in pelvic varicosities once we were able to catheterize through and stent you see no more varicosity because it doesn't have to flow that way it flows through the

way that that it was intended through the iliac vein once it's open she came back to clinic a week later significant improvement in symptoms did not treat any of the gonadal veins this was just a venous obstruction causing the increased

pressure and symptoms of pelvic vein congestion how good how good are we at

of these issues filters are generally still use or were used up until a few years ago or five years ago almost exclusively and then between five years and a decade ago there was this new concept of proximal protection or flow

reversal that came about and so this is the scenario where you don't actually cross the lesion but you place a couple balloons one in the external carotid artery one in the common carotid artery and you stop any blood flow that's going

through the internal carotid artery overall so if there's no blood flowing up there then when you cross the lesion without any blood flow there's nothing nowhere for it to go the debris that that is and then you can angioplasty and

or stent and then ultimately place your stent and then get out and then aspirate all of that column of stagnant blood before you deflate the balloons and take your device out so step-by-step I'll walk through this a couple times because

it's a little confusing at least it was for me the first time I was doing this but common carotid artery clamping just like they do in surgery right I showed you the pictures of the surgical into our directa me they do the vessel loops

around the common carotid approximately the eca and the ICA and then actually of clamping each of those sites before they open up the vessel and then they in a sequential organized reproducible manner uncle Dee clamp or unclamp each of those

sites in the reverse order similar to this balloon this is an endovascular clamping if you will so you place this common carotid balloon that's that bottom circle there you inflate you you have that clamping that occurs right

so what happens then is that you've taken off the antegrade blood flow in that common carotid artery on that side you have retrograde blood flow that's coming through from the controller circulation and you have reverse blood

flow from the ECA the external carotid artery from the contralateral side that can retrograde fill the distal common carotid stump and go up the ica ultimately then you can suspend the antegrade blood flow up the common

carotid artery as I said and then you clamp or balloon occlude the external carotid artery so now if you include the external carotid artery that second circle now you have this dark red column of blood up the distal common carotid

artery all the way up the internal carotid artery up until you get the Circle of Willis Circle of Willis allows cross filling a blood on the contralateral side so the patient doesn't undergo stroke because they've

got an intact circulation and they're able to tolerate this for a period of time now you can generally do these with patients awake and assess their ability to tolerate this if they don't tolerate this because of incomplete circle or

incomplete circulation intracranial injury really well then you can you can actually condition the patient to tolerate this or do this fairly quickly because once the balloons are inflated you can move fairly quickly and be done

or do this in stepwise fashion if you do this in combination with two balloons up you have this cessation of blood flow in in the internal carotid artery you do your angioplasty or stenting and post angioplasty if need be and then you

aspirate your your sheath that whole stagnant column of blood you aspirate that with 320 CC syringes so all that blood that's in there and you can check out what you see in the filter but after that point you've taken all that blood

that was sitting there stagnant and then you deflate the balloons you deflate them in stepwise order so this is what happens you get your o 35 stiff wire up into the external carotid artery once it's in the external cart or you do not

want to engage with the lesion itself you take your diagnostic catheter up into the external carotid artery once you're up there you take your stiff wire right so an amp lats wire placed somewhere in the distal external carotid

artery once that's in there you get your sheath in place and then you get your moment devices a nine French device overall and it has to come up and place this with two markers the proximal or sorry that distal markers in the

proximal external carotid artery that's what this picture shows here the proximal markers in the common carotid artery so there's nothing that's touched that lesion so far in any of the images that I've shown and then that's the moma

device that's one of these particular devices that does proximal protection and and from there you inflate the balloon in the external carotid artery you do a little angiographic test to make sure that there's no branch

proximal branch vessels of the external carotid artery that are filling that balloon is inflated now in this picture once you've done that you can inflate the common carotid artery once you've done that now you can take an O on four

wire of your choice cross the lesion because there's no blood flow going so even if you liberated plaque or debris it's not going to go anywhere it's just gonna sit there stagnant and then with that cross do angioplasty this is what

it looks like in real life you have a balloon approximately you have a balloon distally contrast has been injected it's just sitting there stagnant because there's nowhere for it to go okay once the balloons are inflated you've

temporarily suspends this suspended any blood flow within this vasculature and then as long as you confirm that there's no blood flow then you go ahead and proceed with the intervention you can actually check pressures we do a lot of

pressure side sheath pressure measurements the first part of this is what the aortic pressure and common carotid artery pressures are from our sheath then we've inflated our balloons and the fact that there's even any

waveform is actually representative of the back pressure we're getting and there's actually no more antegrade flow in the common carotid artery once you've put this in position then you can stent this once the stent is in place and you

think you like everything you can post dilated and then once you've post dilated then you deflate your balloon right so you deflate your all this debris that's shown in this third picture is sitting there stagnant

you deflate the external carotid artery balloon first and then your common carotid artery and prior to deflating either the balloons you've aspirated the blood flow 320 CC syringes as I said we filter the contents of the third syringe

to see if there's any debris if there's debris and that third filter and that third syringe that we actually continue to ask for eight more until we have a clean syringe but there's no filter debris out because

that might tell us that there's a lot of debris in this particular column of blood because we don't want to liberate any of that so when do you not want to use this well what if the disease that you're dealing with extends past the

common carotid past the internal carotid into the common carotid this device has to pass through that lesion before it gets into the external carotid artery so this isn't a good device for that or if that eca is occluded so you can't park

that kampf balloon that distal balloon to balloon sheath distally into the external carotid artery so that might not be good either if the patient can't tolerate it as I mentioned that's something that we assess for and you

want to have someone who's got some experience with this is a case that it takes a quite a bit of kind of movement and coordination with with the physician technologists or and co-operators that

let me show you a case of massive PE

this launched our pert pert PE response team 30 year-old man transcranial resection of a pituitary tumor post-op seizures intracranial frontal lobe hemorrhage okay so after his brain surgery developed a frontal lobe

hemorrhage and of course few days after that developed hypotension and hypoxia and was found to have a PE and this is what the PE look like so I'll go back to this one that's clot in the IVC right there and

that's clot in the right main pulmonary artery on this side clot in the IVC clot in the right main pulmonary artery systolic blood pressure was around 90 millimeters of mercury for about an hour he was getting more altered tachycardic

he was in the 120s at this point we realized he was not going the right direction for some reason the surgeon didn't want to touch him still to this day not sure why but that was the case he was brought to the ir suite and I had

a great Mickey attending who came with him and decided to start him on pressors and basically treat him like an ICU patient while I was trying to get rid of his thrombus so it came from the neck because I was conscious of this clot in

the IVC and I didn't want to dislodge it as I took my catheters past it and you see the Selective pulmonary and on selective pulmonary angiogram here and there's some profusion to the left lung and basically none to the right lung

take a sheath out to the right side and do an injection that you see all this cast of thrombus you really see no pulmonary perfusion here you can understand why at this point this man is not doing well what I did at this point

was give a little bit of TPA took a pigtail started trying to spin it through aspirated a little bit wasn't getting anywhere he was actually getting worse I was starting to feel very very nervous I had remembered for my AV

fistula work that there was this thing called the cleaner I don't have any stake in the company but I said you know I don't have a lot to lose here and I thought maybe this would be better than me trying to spin a pigtail through

the clock so the important thing about the cleaners it does not go over a wire so you have to take the sheet out then take out the wire then put the cleaner through that sheath and withdraw the sheath

you can't bareback it especially in the pulmonary circulation the case reports are poking through the pulmonary artery and causing massive hemorrhage and the pulmonary artery does not have an adventitia which is the outer layer just

a little bit thinner than your average artery okay so activated it deployed it and you started to get better and this is what it looked like at the end now this bonus question does somebody see anything on this this picture here that

made me very happy on this side this picture here that made me feel like hey we're getting somewhere I'm sorry the aorta the aorta you start to see the aorta exactly and that that was something I was not seen before the

point being that even though this doesn't look that good in terms of your final image the fact that you see filling in the aorta and mine it might have been some of the stuff I had done earlier I can't I can't pinpoint which

of the interventions actually worked but that's what I'm looking for I'm looking for aortic blood flow because now I've got a hole in that in that clot that's getting blood flow to the left ventricle which starts to reverse that RV

dysfunction that we were concerned about make sure I'm okay with time so we'll

to talk about is indirect angiography this is kind of a neat trick to suggest to your intervention list as a problem solver we were asked to ablate this lesion and it looked kind of funny this patient had a resection for HCC they

thought this was a recurrence so we bring the comb beam CT and we do an angio and it doesn't enhance so this is an image here of indirect port ography so what you can do is an SMA run and see at which point along the

run do you pacify the portal vein and you just set up your cone beam CT for that time so you just repeat your injection and now your pacifying the entire portal vein even though you haven't selected it and what to show

well this was a portal aneurysm after resection with a little bit of clot in it the patient went on some aspirin and it resolved in three months so back to our first patient what do you do for someone who has HCC that's invading the

heart this patient underwent 2y 90s bland embolization microwave ablation chemotherapy and SBRT and he's an eight-year survivor so it's one of those things where certainly with the correct patient selection you can find the right

things to do for someone I think that usually our best results come from our interdisciplinary consensus in terms of trying to use the unique advantages that individual therapies have and IO is just one of those but this is an important

lesson to our whole group that you know a lot of times you get your best results when you use things like a team approach so in summary there are applications to IO prior to surgery to make people surgical candidates there are definitive

treatments ie your cancer will be treated definitively with curative intent a lot of times we can save when people have tried cure intent and weren't able to and obviously to palliate folks to try to buy them time

and quality of life thermal ablation is safe and effective for small lesions but it's limited by the adjacent anatomy y9t is not an ischemic therapy it's an ablative therapy you're putting small ablative radioactive particles within

the lesion and just using the blood supply as a conduit for your brachytherapy and you can use this as a new admin application to make people safer surgical candidates when you apply to the entire ride a panic globe

thanks everyone appreciate it [Applause] [Music]

treatment options once you've sort of isolated that there are leaky valves and the patient has typical symptoms that there are some surgical options but really embolization and catheter

directed treatment are really the mainstays of treatment both because it's an outpatient procedure you get to go home the same day and the recoveries fairly easy the factors that we consider when you embolize or block these

varicose veins are listed here you want to you want desired duration you want it to be closed forever you can't replace valves it would be nice to be able to do that but there's not a valve replacement so much like in the leg when you're

treating varicose veins you're either blocking or taking veins out so the surgical options are to take the vein out or to ligate but and the vascular options would be to block it and so I would just thought I would cover just a

little bit of embolization materials I'm sure you're all very familiar with and as I'll mention a little bit later there's there's sort of not necessarily agreement on what type of things people use to embolize gonadal veins or pelvic

varicosities but i'll show you what i do but give you a background of just generalized embolization materials so I'm sure you've all seen gel foam supplied as a sheet you can make a slurry you soak it with contraire

so that you can see it as you're putting it in some people use glue and will glue the entire gonadal vein it solidifies when it's mixed with saline or blood usually mix it with acai it also you can see it as

you're injecting it and then the standard coils which there are multiple sizes shapes detachable non-detachable Amplatz or plugs all the mechanical devices that can be used to block blood vessels and then I put on Souter deck

all because there are some people that will sort of do the sandwich technique you may have heard we'd put a coil peripherally and a coil up by the renal vein and then in between the coils you can film a sclerosant and embolize that

way the other important factor for me is using the suture deck all on the actual varicosities I'm not just necessarily treating or blocking off the the blood supply to them you know and I'll mention that a little bit more during the case

here so go through a case patient with

questions comments and accusations please hello this topic is very personal to me I've had it actually had a UFE so this is like one of my big things I work in the outpatient center as well as a

hospital where we perform you Effy's and frequently the radiologist will have me go in and talk to the patient it's from a personal perspective one of the issues which it may just have been from my situation was pain control post UFE

whether you normally tell your patients about pain control after the UFE someone say we are all struggling with this yeah oh it's not what's your question is going to be okay good I'm gonna get doctor Dora to answer Shawn the question

is what do you what do we do with this pain issue you know what are you doing for the home there at Emory there you know and a lot of practices we we don't rely on one magic bullet for pain control recently we've been doing

alternate procedures for two adjunctive procedures to help with pain control for example there are nerve blocks that you can do like a superior hypogastric nerve block there's there's Tylenol that can be given intravenously which is seems to

be a little more effective than by mouth there's there's a you know it and a lot of times it's it's a delicate balance right between pain post procedural pain because you can often get the pain well controlled with with narcotics opioid

with a pain pump but the problem is 12 hours later the patients is extremely nauseous and that's what keeps her in the hospital so it's a it's a balance between pain control and nausea you can you can hit the nausea

beforehand using a pain and scopolamine patch that that'll get built up in the system during the procedure and that kind of obviates the nausea issues like I said that the the nerve blocks the the tile and also there are some other

medicines that can can be used adjunctive leaf or for pain control in addition to to the to the opioids so the answer the question is there are multiple there multiple answers to the question there's not one magic bullet so

that helped it did one of the things that I tell the patients is that you know everyone is different and yet some people I've seen patients come out and they have no pain they're like perfect and then some come out and they are

writhing in the bed and they're hurting and they're rolling all around what and I always ask the acid docs are you telling them they could possibly have you know pain after the procedure because some have the expectation that

I'm going to be pain-free and that's not always the case so they have an unrealistic expectation that I'm gonna have the UFE but not have pain what I also tell them is that the pain it's kind of like an investment right and

this is easy for a guy to say that right but but it's it's an investment the worst part the worst pain you should be feeling is the first 12 12 hours or so every day I tell my patient you're gonna be getting better and better and better

with far as the pain as long as you is you follow our little cookbook of medicines that we give you on the way home and I want you to make sure that you fill these prescriptions on the way home or you have someone fill those

prescriptions for you before he or she picked you up in the hospital and lately we have been and I see that you're there as well lots of other little tricks that are out there right and again there are all

little tricks so ensure arterial lidocaine doctor there is near alluded to and if you're on si R Connect you may it may spill over on some of your chat rooms here people have been using like muscle relaxant like flexural or

robertson with some success but just know that we don't have any studies that tell us how that's supposed to do so when i have someone that is like writhing in pain i just use everything so i do it superior hypogastric nerve

vlog and i actually will do some intra-arterial lidocaine although not so much lately i have been using the muscle relaxant but i will warn you that i've had two patients with extreme anticholinergic effects where they are

now not able to pee from that so you know where we're doing that balance act I see that you're there can I take that question here first just so we're we're doing the same thing we're using the multimodal just throwing all these

things at people and we're trying the superior hypogastric blocks but we're collaborating with anesthesia to do that right now do you all do your own blocks or do you collaborate with anesthesia we do our own blocks okay it isn't it is

not that difficult I would tell you that but again it's kind of like you know you got to do if you start feeling better and then you're like we don't really need them we'll just do it on our own okay thank you again yes what's the

acceptable interval between UFE and for IBF oh that's a your question what is the interval between UFE and IVF so if you wanted to get pregnant yeah and can you have a you Fe and then have an IVF like how long would you have to wait

wait and tell you before you can have that the IBF it I guess it really depends on the age of the patient because we know that that the threshold for which patient tend to have that inability to conceive

is around 45 years old so you know it did below the you know below the age of 45 the risk of causing ovarian failure or or the inability to conceive is significantly less it's zero zero to three percent so I would say that you

know you probably want the effects of the fibroid embolization to two to take effect it takes around 12 months for these fibroids to shrink down to their most weight that they're gonna they're going to shrink down the most I wouldn't

say you need to wait 12 months to put our nine vitro fertilization there's no good there's no good literature out there I don't believe that's your next and so I would say just remember that if you came to my practice and you said you

wanted to get pregnant I will be sending you to talk to fertility specialists beforehand we do not perform embolization procedures as a way to become pregnant there's no data to support that but if you saw your

gynecologist and they said let's do this then I'm sure they'll be doing lots of adjunct things to figure out what would be an ideal time then to for you to have IVF and if I dove not having any data to inform me I would ask you to wait a year

and what will be the effect of those hormones that they gave you if for example a patient has existing fibroids what would be the effect of those hormones that IVF doctors prescribed their patients yeah so fibroids actually

can grow during pregnancy so I would say that most of those hormones are pro fertility hormones so I would expect that maybe you can see some of that effect as well yeah alright if you have any other questions you can grab me oh

you're I'm sorry go with it okay yes we we have time I don't want to keep anybody here for that so I have a two-fold question the first one is post-procedure can you use a diclofenac patch or a 12-hour pain

patch that is a an NSAID have you have any experience with that and your next question my second part of the question is there a patient profile or a psychological profile that tips you that the patient is not going to be able to

candidate because of their issues around pain so they're two separate but we have in success sending people home that first day so I'm looking to just make it better I haven't had experience with the Clos

phonetic patch it's in theory it seems ok you know these are all the these are they're all these are non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs so there are different potency levels for all of them they you know they range from very low

with with naproxen to to a little bit higher with toradol like that clover neck I think is somewhere in between so we found that at least I found that that q6 our our tour at all it tends to help a lot so with that said I I don't have

much experience with it with the patch in answer to your second question the only thing I can say is there there is a strong correlation between size of fibroids and the the amount of a post procedural pain and post embolization

syndrome so there really you know we often say we don't really care too much about the number of fibroids but the size of the fibroid is is is should be you know you should you should look at that on pre procedural imaging because

if it gets too big it may not be worth it for the patient because they may be in severe pain the more embolic you put into the blood supply's applying the the fibroid the the greater the pain post procedural pain

are there multiple other factors that would contribute to pain but that's that's one aspect you can you can look at post procedurally on imaging okay thank you very much yes ma'am hi what what kind of catheter do you use

to catheterize the fibroid artery when you pass by radio access yeah so over the last three years the companies have been really very good about that so there are a few things that I without endorsing one company or the other that

you need to make sure that the sheath that you're using is one of those radial sheets a company that makes a radio sheath you should not use a femoral sheath for radial access so no cheating where that's concern you may get away

with it once or twice but it will catch up to you and you need a catheter that is long enough to go from the radio to the to the groin so I'm looking for like a 120 or 125 centimeter kind of angled catheter whether it's hydrophilic the

whole way or just a hydrophilic tip or not at all you can you can choose which one in our practice most of us still tend to use a micro catheter through that catheter although if I'm using a for French and good glide calf and it

just flips into like a nice big juicy uterine artery then I may just go ahead and take that and do the embolization if the fellow is not scrubbed in as well so thanks a lot but they make they make many different kinds like that and more

of those are to come all right I'm you can please please please send us any other questions that you have thanks for your time and attention and enjoy the rest of the living

different applications renal ablation is very common when do we use it

high surgical risk patients primary metastatic lesions some folks are actually refused surgery nowadays and saying I'll have a one centimeter reno lesion actually want this in lieu of surgery people have

familial syndromes they're prone to getting a renal cancer again so we're trying to preserve renal tissue it is the most renal parenchymal sparing modality and obviously have a single kidney and a lot of these are found

incidentally when they're getting a CT scan for something else here's a very sizable one the patient that has a cardiomyopathy can see how big the heart is so it's you know seven centimeter lesion off of the left to superior pole

against the spleen this patient wouldn't have tolerated bleeding very much so we went ahead and embolized it beforehand using alcohol in the pide all in a coil and this is what it looks like when you have all those individual ice probes all

set up within the lesion and you can see the ice forming around I don't know how well it projects but in real time you can determine if you've developed your margin we do encompass little bit of spleen with that and you can see here

that you have a faint rim surrounding that lesion right next to the spleen and that's the necrotic fat that's how you know that you got it all and just this ablation alone caused a very reactive pleural

effusion that you can see up on the CT over there so imagine how this patient would have tolerated surgery pulmonary

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