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Breaking Boundaries | #Filterout: Advanced IVC Filter Removal Techniques I Learned from Twitter
Breaking Boundaries | #Filterout: Advanced IVC Filter Removal Techniques I Learned from Twitter
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Why Interventional Oncology | Interventional Oncology
Why Interventional Oncology | Interventional Oncology
ablationcenterschapterhccinterventionallivermetastaticoncologypalliationprimaryradiologyresectiontechniquetherapytoleratedtreatmentstumortumors
PV Access | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
PV Access | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
accessaccessedangulationanterioranteriorlyballoonchaptercirrhosisglidehepatichepatic veinliverneedlepasspintoportalposteriorprolapsesagittalsheathshrinkagestenttractveinvenouswire
Treatment Options- TransCarotid Artery Revascularization- TCAR | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
Treatment Options- TransCarotid Artery Revascularization- TCAR | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
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Pathophysiology | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
Pathophysiology | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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UFE and Adenomyosis | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
UFE and Adenomyosis | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
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Interspinous Spacer | Twitter Case Files SIR 2019
Interspinous Spacer | Twitter Case Files SIR 2019
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The Case that Launched the Cornell PERT (PE Response Team) | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
The Case that Launched the Cornell PERT (PE Response Team) | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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The Landscape of PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
The Landscape of PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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Why is Staging Important | Interventional Oncology
Why is Staging Important | Interventional Oncology
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Case 2 - 4-month delayed heal wound, Rutherford Cat. 4 | Subintimal Recanalization | Complex Above Knee Cases with Re-entry Devices and Techniques
Case 2 - 4-month delayed heal wound, Rutherford Cat. 4 | Subintimal Recanalization | Complex Above Knee Cases with Re-entry Devices and Techniques
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Case 1 - Non-healing heel wound, Rutherford Cat. 5, previous stroke | Recanalization, Atherectomy | Complex Above Knee Cases with Re-entry Devices and Techniques
Case 1 - Non-healing heel wound, Rutherford Cat. 5, previous stroke | Recanalization, Atherectomy | Complex Above Knee Cases with Re-entry Devices and Techniques
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The Last 5 Years in PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
The Last 5 Years in PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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TIPS: Techniques- Stent Grafts | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
TIPS: Techniques- Stent Grafts | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
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Massive PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
Massive PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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Putting it all Together and Evaluation - Curriculum Week 3 | Cath Lab Academy: An Adjunct to an Orientation Program Using an Interprofessional Approach
Putting it all Together and Evaluation - Curriculum Week 3 | Cath Lab Academy: An Adjunct to an Orientation Program Using an Interprofessional Approach
adjunctiveAtherectomy DevicebasicallyBoston ScientificchaptercontinuedeviceelectronicequipmentevaluateevaluationsfeedbackinterventionalivusNoneplaqueprogramRotobladersimulatedsimulationstakeholdersultrasoundvendors
What type of PE is this? | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
What type of PE is this? | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
centralchaptercorrectcriteriondysfunctionechoelevatedembolusheartpressureratestrainstratificationventricle
Treatment Options- CAS- Embolic Protection Device (EPD)- Distal Protection | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
Treatment Options- CAS- Embolic Protection Device (EPD)- Distal Protection | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
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Case 3 - Right iliac occlusion | Subintimal Recanalization | Complex Above Knee Cases with Re-entry Devices and Techniques
Case 3 - Right iliac occlusion | Subintimal Recanalization | Complex Above Knee Cases with Re-entry Devices and Techniques
AngioDymanicscatheterchapterCordiscritical limb ischemiadeviceenosfootguysiliacocclusionOUTBACK® ELITE Re-Entry Catheterproximalre-entry deviceSOS Omni Selective Catheterstentvessel
Treatment Options- CAS- Embolic Protection Device (EPD)- Proximal Protection | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
Treatment Options- CAS- Embolic Protection Device (EPD)- Proximal Protection | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
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Introduction to Carotid Interventions | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
Introduction to Carotid Interventions | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
carotidchapterdeviceendovascularintentocclusivestentingtalk
Where We Are Now | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
Where We Are Now | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
anticoagulationcardiopulmonarychapterembolectomyfavorablelysismassivepatientrandomizedsystemicthrombosis
Q&A Uterine Fibroid Embolization | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Q&A Uterine Fibroid Embolization | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
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Stent Graft Deployment | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
Stent Graft Deployment | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
balloonballooningbarebasicallybifurcationcapturedchaptercirculationcorddeepdeployentryidealplasticportalportionpullsheathstentstentstipsveinveinsvenous
How Do I Approach Submassive PE Today? | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
Prospective CDT Trials | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
Prospective CDT Trials | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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Background on Interventional Oncology | Interventional Oncology
Background on Interventional Oncology | Interventional Oncology
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Fibroid or Cancer | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Fibroid or Cancer | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
abnormalaggressivebleedingcancercancerschapterclinicdevicefibroidfibroidsgynecologyhelpsMRINoneobstetricsoutcomespatientssymptomsuterineuterus
Transcript

baking breaking boundaries so one thing that we all like to do is brag right we took this filter out that's been in for 50 years and you know all that sort of stuff so here's a Greenfield that was

in for over 25 years green fields as you know as a permanent filter in this patient it's a Friday so it's got to go another shout out to filter Friday but here's a you know incredible case where he was able to

remove a filter that had been in for 25 years so here's here's one of my cases where I have this filter that I threw out there and I had seen this 16 year old truck be shredded and this is another Bob reuse case and so I kind of

got excited about actually doing this case that I don't know if I would have felt comfortable doing that but I see that here's another one from Manny that had another op DS filter that was that was able to be removed so by getting

this filter out I would post this picture and say how you know how would other people attach that so this is that IR to IR part here's another one that Agnes Solberg put out real nice thing I think I have a video here can you run

that video where she has this is more almost like an Instagram type post whoops go back there play that little video there so she has some live pictures of what's going on in the case and she's put some nice graphics and

things like that but this is you know it was like the Pinterest of Twitter of Twitter complex IVC filter retrievals so anyway so I had this case and I actually did the case and tweeted about it afterwards and then I got a reply from

Christopher Ballman who's a said nice to see it come out in one place I personally like laser sheathe as for this filter because I've had nonmetal sheaths tear on me and cause filter fracturing embolism looks like this

plastic sheath was close to the same so he's actually looking at my text and commenting on fact that he would have done something a little bit differently which i think is wonderful here's another one where the fracture embedded

10-year old filter if you look on the on the right they're removed with the laser here's one on the left where the same sort of case was removed with a laser so we're all kind of cross pollinating there there's tips and tricks so here's

somebody that Bradley Thomas who's actually a master surgeon what was that what would your stress the community what would your strategy be if you referred this from outside Hospital after a failed first 1/10 of course he

said hashtag asking for a friend I'd say CT if not redone forceps and wire loop any other thoughts so I saw this and I had this exact same case in the past before if you see this this is a 3d reconstruction of a filter that has

penetrated tilted and penetrated outside the IVC on the top and the bottom side I was able to snare that from above using a loop snare and I pulled hard enough that I actually bent the the head of the filter over and was able to remove it

through the sheath and so a couple weeks later Babri you posts his exact same filter that's bent over like this he called it the ragdoll filter which I really like I think I've replied to him and said it look like a solvent or dolly

picture with the filter draped across the tree and then a follow-up from Brad Thomas says there it goes it's out and he did the exact same thing he couldn't bent the filter over so none of us talked or anything like this this is all

posted on social media you learn a lot about emerging technologies you learn about filters that are coming down the road Peter Horner a good friend of mine from from Denver who I correspond with

probably a year on Twitter before we met at a conference and just met up and had a drink so he talks about this filter that opens up after a period of time it can it converts to a stent with six months

96% within six months and then you have the absorb alive EC filter coming out of Indiana again with links to the publication's on it just all sorts of really cool things where you can learn about these new emerging technologies I

can't wait to get my hands on this device is the Aptus device that are the captives device sorry I kind of doing that Bob Ryu has been involved with which is a different way of of grabbing the top of the filter that doesn't

require a snare doesn't require a loop it actually kind of molds over the top of it and grabs and pulls it out here's another picture of it and I love this one where where Bob if you got a if you don't follow Bob you gotta follow him

he's got the greatest sense of humor but he says I was filter out with my brand-spanking-new Colorado filter a fellow Demetri with the cap to spice ho-hum he says to me kids today I say to him and then now the penultimate which

is the captives plus the laser and then this is how Luke Skywalker likes to do is filter out there are parody accounts as well and this is my favorite if you guys don't know Scott tree atoll he's been at Penn forever he's the chief and

chair there and vehemently opposed to social media so somebody put this together and if you don't know this he he has strong opinions first of all and two he wears these sneakers and he only does his cases in these white sneakers

and he's been using the same pair of sneakers for like 25 years so here's a tweet where Bill Strava law post said I wore those shows with the case once in the better filter jumped off patients on its own so that's

another way to get a filter out I guess you just wear those sneakers so thank you for your attention [Applause]

the traditional three pillars are

surgical medical and rad honk which actually was once part of radiology and separated just like interventional radiology has and where is the role for this last column so many patients are not medically operable so if you set the

gold standard you know that the cure for someone has a primary liver mass well about 20 percent of patients who present can undergo resection what you do for the remaining portion so Salvage is what we offer when someone has undergone

standard of care and it didn't work how do we hop back in and try to see how much these folks it's low-risk it's not very expensive at all as compared to things like surgery and the recovery is usually the same date so

this concept here of tests of time is kind of interesting a lot of times when we look at a tumor let's say it's 2 centimeters it's not really the size of the tumor but it's how nasty of a player it is and it's

difficult to find out sometimes so what we do is we'll treat it using an IR technique and watch the patient and if they do well then we can subject them then to the more aggressive therapy and it's more worthwhile because we've found

that that person is going to be someone who's likely going to benefit you can use this in conjunction with other treatments and repeat therapy is well tolerated and finally obviously palliation is very important as we try

to focus on folks quality of life and again this can be done in the outpatient setting so here's a busy slide but if you just look at all the non-surgical options that you have here for liver dominant primary metastatic liver

disease everything that's highlighted in blue is considered an interventional oncology technique this is these the main document that a lot of international centers use to allocate people to treatments when they have

primary liver cancer HCC and if you see if you see at the very bottom corner there in very early-stage HCC actually ablation is a first-line therapy and they made this switch in 2016 but it's the first time that an

intervention illogic therapy was actually recommended in lieu of something like surgery why because it's lesions are very small its tolerated very well and it's the exact same reason why your dermatologists can freeze a

lesion as opposed to having to cut everything off all the time at a certain point certain tumors respond well and it's worth the decrease in morbidity so

so this shows you this shows you how so this typically you've accessed the portal vein now and you're in next up you basically pass the wire down this just gives you a little depiction of

what you're what you're what you're doing here this think of this is a sagittal and Deliver okay hepatic vein and portal vein it's the sagittal and what you're trying to do is

and if you're in the right hepatic vein you need to pass your needle anteriorly to hit the right portal vein okay and the right portal vein is usually anterior and interfere to the Patek vein okay so you pass your wire you're you

NEET your needle and when if you're missing the portal vein usually what's happening is that you're scooping behind it okay your posterior to it and sometimes you'll find the operators will actually increase the curve in the

needle so they can actually reach anterior anterior and actually hit the portal vein because usually usually if you if you know you're in the right place that the right hepatic vein not in the middle of petting vain and

you're missing the portal vein you need to reach anterior more so they put a little extra curve in the kelp into needle to actually catch that right portal vein okay with liver cirrhosis you get shrinking shrinkage of the liver

size the liver decreases the portal vein starts moving more anterior and more superior and closer to that paddock vein okay and it becomes more and more difficult to actually hit it so the smaller the liver the harder the liver

the smaller the space and you've got a thick mat piece of metal okay it's very difficult to hit that okay it becomes more and more challenging with with smaller levels to hit to hit the portal vein especially centrally okay this is

an access kit a new access kit by Gore it's basically the similar to the similar to the Cal Pinto needle it's a little longer with a little bit increase angulation compared to the traditional ring kits or the Cole Pinto needle but

once accessed you pass a wire okay into the portal circulation there are two ways of doing this okay there's a traditional old-school way that's my way is that to use a Benson wire okay the youngsters the Millennials are using

glide wires okay so if you're dealing with a millennial physician they're usually going for the glide okay if you're dealing with them with an older you know guy or gal they're using usually using a Benson wire okay the

advantage of the Benson wire is that has a floppy tip it actually you just push it in and hits the wall it prolapses into the main portal vein right away as you can see just prolapse and portal vein if you're using a glide where

you're catching all sorts of things you'll have small branches you don't know where you're going your V's even sometimes dissecting outside of the portal vein they're second-guessing themselves all the time but actually the

good way with a little bit of more different skillset is that you use use actual good old fashioned Benson wire actually goes in prolapses right away into the ends of the main into the main portal vein rarely would I actually use

light or switch to a glare that's usually if I'm coming in in a small in a small branch or an orchid angle where I have to use a glide right to try to get around the angle because I don't have enough room for a Benson to actually hit

the wall and prolapse is very really really tight space so tights Bates funny angles I'll switch to a glide where if it's a straight forward a Benson as very is very straight forward okay try to get the sheath as much into the portal vein

over the over the needle over the wire as possible and then you balloon your tract okay through the sheath okay some people will balloon with a six millimeter boom some people will balloon with an eight millimeter blue eye

balloon with an eight four okay at night and I make sure it's a four so that I actually use the balloon as the measurements for this four centimeters actually you I actually use the balloon to measure my to measure my Viator's

stance okay with the balloon there there'll be two waists there's a portal venous entry site and the Ematic venous entry site so you actually gauge that and take a picture of it so you actually see how long your tract is where's your

hepatic venous access who has your portal venous axis actually gives you a lot of anatomy here been engaging in actually putting where your Viator stent is okay usually high pressure balloon I use it and ate some people will use a

six or even a seven millimeter balloon

quick I did want to mention t-carr briefly and try to get you guys closer to back on time this is a hybrid procedure this is combining the surgical procedure we talked about first and carotid stenting it takes combined

carotid exposure at the base of the clavicle or just above the clavicle and reverses blood flow just like we talked about but tastes slightly different technique or approach to doing this and then you put the stent in from a drug

carotid access here's the components of the device right up by the neck there is where the incision is made just above the clavicle and you have this sheet that's about eight French in size that only goes in about us to 2 cm or 1 and a

half cm overall into the vessel and then that sheath is sutured to the the chest wall and then it's got a side arm that goes what's labeled number six here is this flow reversal urn enroute neuroprotection kit it reverses the

blood flow and then you get a femoral sheath in the vein right in the common femoral vein and you reverse the blood flow so this is a case a picture from our institution up on the right is the patient's neck and that's the carotid

exposure and the initial sheath is in place so the sidearm of that sheath is the enroute protection system which is going up up at the top of the image there we're gonna back bleed that let that sidearm of that sheath continue to

bleed up to the very top and then connect that to the common femoral venous sheet that we have in place there's a stepwise of that and then ultimately what we see at the end of the procedure is that filter inside that

little canister can be interrogated after and you can see the debris this is in the box D here on the bottom left the debris that we captured during the flow reversal and this is a what we call a passive and then active flow reversal

system so once the system is in place the direct exposure carotid sheath in place the flow controller and AV shunt in place you see the direction of blood flow so now all that blood flow in that common carotid artery is going reverse

direction and so when you place a sheath or wire and and ultimately through that sheath up by the carotid artery there's no risk for distal embolization because everything is flowing in Reverse here's a couple

case examples ferns from our institution this is a patient who had a symptomatic critical greater than 90% stenosis has tandems to nose he's so one proximal at the origin and one a little bit more distal we you can see the little

retractors down at the base of the image there in the sheath that's essentially the extent of the sheath from the bottom of that image into the vessel only about a cm or two post angioplasty instant patient tolerated that quite well here's

another 71 year-old asymptomatic patient greater than 90% stenosis pretty calcified lesion a little more extensive than maybe with the CT shows there's the angiography and then ultimately a post stent placement using the embolic

protection device and overall the trials have shown good good safety met profile overall compared to carotid surgery so it's a minimum minimal exposure not nearly as large the risk of stroke is less because you're not mucking around

up there you're using the best of a low profile system with flow reversal albeit with a mini surgical exposure overall we've actually have an abstract or post trip this year's meeting this is just a snapshot of that you can check it out

this is our one year experience we've had comparable low complication rates overall in our experience so in summary

okay pathophysiology right ventricular the right ventricle is everything when it comes to the pathophysiology of this disease I'm gonna lead you through this because I think it's interesting and important I'm gonna go to this side this

time be fair to both sides of the room so when you have a PE that increases your pulmonary vascular resistance normally the pulmonary vasculature is a very low resistance circuit but when you start putting clots in it it's restive

Gong its its resistance goes up it's kind of analogous to the left an electrical circuit what does that do to the right ventricle well it increases the after load on that right ventricle so what that does is it causes the right

ventricle to blow up like a balloon now by Laplace's law if you take a balloon and you blow it up the intramural pressure is higher in the balloon so if you can imagine that thin walled balloon if you took the pressure at each point

inside of the balloon because it still got a finite thickness the pressure is higher than if it's decompressed now the problem with that is that how does the right ventricle get blood it gets blood from the coronary arteries but if the

pressure inside the ventricle is higher than the pressure differential is less and what what what is Flo rely upon it relies upon a difference in pressure from point A to point B so if that starts to equalize your blood flow to

the right ventricle decreases okay that's why the right ventricle gets ischemic now when the right ventricle becomes ischemic it can't squeeze as hard so it gets hypokinetic when it dilates it also does

not seem to squeeze out as well because the muscle fibers aren't overlapping as well okay so both of those things lead to both so that the right ventricle is now not squeezing is hard and it's not getting blood forward to the left

ventricle so that results in LV preload reduction though LV is not seeing as much blood on top of that when the right ventricle dilates it starts impinging on the left ventricle so now the left ventricular cavity is smaller and it can

accept less blood your output is only as good as your input okay so that's where you start developing systemic hypotension because your left ventricle can't pump out as much blood what happens when your left ventricle can't

pump out as much blood you don't get as much blood into your coronary arteries you don't get as much blood into your coronary arteries you're not getting as much blood into your right ventricle this is the vicious cycle that leads to

right ventricular failure and the progressive death that you see with massive PE now if you were to draw a line like that everything above the line is sub massive PE everything below the line is massive PE okay this is a big

experiment I did we were trying to create sub massive PE we created a massive PE this used to be mostly the L the left-sided chambers and all of a sudden became the right-sided chambers to me this drove home how much the right

side can blow out and dilate that's the only point of this picture I hope I didn't cross you out okay so let's talk

patients may be asking you is like what about adenomyosis and I've been hearing something about that which is not exactly fibroids right it's a different entity though the symptoms could be kind of the same and for the years and years

and years we wouldn't have any options for patients who had adenomyosis in fact the only option for patients with adenomyosis is surgery but adenomyosis can coexist with fibroids and sometimes patient presents with adenomyosis alone

so we've had some studies now that have looked at that and although the data is not as robust and not as awesome as for patients with fibroids we do provide a performing bolas Asian for those patients with particles that are little

smaller than what we would use for fibroids with results as you're seen there before now the only other new thing that's on the market and it's not so new to you guys that are probably doing radial in femorals anyway working

in cardiac labs and IR labs it's actually what we call the trophy if you go back one slide for me mr. a the person and press play then we will be able to see that radial access I do not work for Merritt they don't give me a

dime I just thought that this was a good video is there volume on that at all if not I can just talk about it and really what it says is that if you need to a radial UFE or have radial axis for a uterine embolization patients just love

it more they and especially like patients that are already just intimidated they don't want you going near their groins at all they actually could just lay on the table we don't have to put up we don't put a Foley in

they just get a radial access the same way that you would just be starting in a line except we have special types of radial catheters and and sheaves to do that and I don't offer a radial access to

patients who are too tall for our catheters or if they've had multiple prior radial access and don't have an intact ulnar artery to complete their hand but it's much like any of that femoral access that you would normally

see they make special hydrophilic sheaths now they're called from this particular company slender technology where the inner diameter of the sheath essentially the sheath is the same like five French on the outside but they have

cored out the inside so it's a bigger diameter so it's a five six so on the outside it's a five but it will take a six French in the inner inner lumen and you know my practice we do more than 80% of all our arterial punctures with a

radial access and everybody here comes dr. Sean Deroche Nia who is the leading author of that paper for SI R and one of my esteemed partners so most patients are able to get up and walk out if you are go from a radial access the access

is actually closed with just a radial band and the complications of having a hematoma or having the patient's bleed out those just all go away but radial axis have their own complications so I'm not here to say that it is not that but

in our practice we found it to be safe and effective our patients want it and it's become like a practice differentiator so if you're working in a practice that don't do radial you EFI's right now you should mention it because

if you're in a population where the other providers are only doing femoral then you will automatically get the patients that only want that so here's a patient that had a radial access you can see a catheter that is coming from the

aorta while you can't see that it's not up and over the bifurcation but maybe you do can see that and there's a catheter in the uterine artery with the characteristic

shape of the uterine artery and the characteristic curlicue vessels of of the fibroid and on the left you can see the Imogen for beforehand and the Imogen on the right of post embolization where there is stagnant flow in the main

uterine not main uterine artery in the horizontal portion of the uterine artery for greater than five cardiac beads and again there's there's no reason that you have to know that level of detail except that you're scrubbing in but if you're

in the audience you're looking at this you're like dr. Newsome I see an air bubble there as well then I'd say good because because I do see it too so you can see the preimage and you can see the post image for pre and post embolization

these these procedures can be quick these procedures are very very rewarding and and I love to do it

that I have mr. case is failing new to us I don't think it's necessarily new worldwide but I found it interesting so I threw it in there so this is a

non-surgical patient this is a 92 year old guy this guy just simply asked dr. Hirsch one of our spine specialists when he saw him in clinic he was referred to us that you know all I really want to do dr. Hirsch no I'll never forget dr.

Hirsch she's a real good connector with his patients he turned him and said dr. Hurst's really all I want to do is take walks with my grandchildren which he was completely unable to do so I'm not sure that this is a crazy

complex case like some of the extreme interventions that you've seen earlier but it's certainly a meaningful case for certain patients so because of that you can see that this patient obviously had a frame role

narrowing and I'll blow up these images and show you what that looks like in really what we're trying to do here because really kind of a not necessarily a non-surgical candidate but certainly a high-risk or poor surgical candidate

because of some other coexisting morbidities so again as we get the degenerative process sort of advances you can see and stole this from Verta flex just to give them credit you can see that this like some inflammation

here are the nerves creating all kinds of issues with them being able to ambulate you have this it's a traditional setup like a vertebroplasty gonna put the patient prone access through the back you can start to see

the delivery device here there's no pointer on this but you can note that the vertebral bodies is a little bit narrowed here at least in this sort of graphical illustration here you're advancing the inner spine spacer what

happens is it's actually screwed to a rod that goes through the delivery system fairly large delivery system trying to get the exact French size from the vendor because I forgot it today what we found out is it's it's about the

size of a dime according to them so so this is what it looks like efforts deployed on the top of the device you can see sort of not the blue sort of struts of fuel but on the top of the device it's lining the spinous processes

here but you can see that that's where they actual receptacle for the screw piece of it the male piece of it actually gets screwed into it and then you unscrew it after you deploy it so that's how it's actually left behind and

then this is what it looks like in profile so you can see sort of the stabilization around the spinous process it fits right in between the spinous process in the transverse process so we've seen this patient twice he's doing

great he thinks dr. Hirsh all of a sudden is a god I think he did this case in about an hour but now he's spending time with these grandchildren and like you know when we think about it it's it's

probably the reason why 99% of the people actually got into this field so this is a real rewarding case so I threw this in there for people and so just the images plain film you can see on the left this is not a vascular case but you

can see he could use some help there too and it turns out that you know you can see on the EMR aside what's going on with his nerves this is what it looks like obviously the post-op picture I'm pretty

good position in here and then this is where it looks like in the lateral position and since I'm as interested in listening to these guys as you guys that's all I have I have two cases but before I end I do want to thank dr.

Zubin irani he trained at the dotter Institute he's a really innovative procedures he does a lot of a high-level cases and dr. Hirsch was a world-class spine person and before I walk off the stage I want to thank some of my team

who's here from MGH we have our inventory managers some of our technical managers in one of our techs and it's always a pleasure to be able to bring them here so thank you guys for everything that you do

[Applause]

let me show you a case of massive PE

this launched our pert pert PE response team 30 year-old man transcranial resection of a pituitary tumor post-op seizures intracranial frontal lobe hemorrhage okay so after his brain surgery developed a frontal lobe

hemorrhage and of course few days after that developed hypotension and hypoxia and was found to have a PE and this is what the PE look like so I'll go back to this one that's clot in the IVC right there and

that's clot in the right main pulmonary artery on this side clot in the IVC clot in the right main pulmonary artery systolic blood pressure was around 90 millimeters of mercury for about an hour he was getting more altered tachycardic

he was in the 120s at this point we realized he was not going the right direction for some reason the surgeon didn't want to touch him still to this day not sure why but that was the case he was brought to the ir suite and I had

a great Mickey attending who came with him and decided to start him on pressors and basically treat him like an ICU patient while I was trying to get rid of his thrombus so it came from the neck because I was conscious of this clot in

the IVC and I didn't want to dislodge it as I took my catheters past it and you see the Selective pulmonary and on selective pulmonary angiogram here and there's some profusion to the left lung and basically none to the right lung

take a sheath out to the right side and do an injection that you see all this cast of thrombus you really see no pulmonary perfusion here you can understand why at this point this man is not doing well what I did at this point

was give a little bit of TPA took a pigtail started trying to spin it through aspirated a little bit wasn't getting anywhere he was actually getting worse I was starting to feel very very nervous I had remembered for my AV

fistula work that there was this thing called the cleaner I don't have any stake in the company but I said you know I don't have a lot to lose here and I thought maybe this would be better than me trying to spin a pigtail through

the clock so the important thing about the cleaners it does not go over a wire so you have to take the sheet out then take out the wire then put the cleaner through that sheath and withdraw the sheath

you can't bareback it especially in the pulmonary circulation the case reports are poking through the pulmonary artery and causing massive hemorrhage and the pulmonary artery does not have an adventitia which is the outer layer just

a little bit thinner than your average artery okay so activated it deployed it and you started to get better and this is what it looked like at the end now this bonus question does somebody see anything on this this picture here that

made me very happy on this side this picture here that made me feel like hey we're getting somewhere I'm sorry the aorta the aorta you start to see the aorta exactly and that that was something I was not seen before the

point being that even though this doesn't look that good in terms of your final image the fact that you see filling in the aorta and mine it might have been some of the stuff I had done earlier I can't I can't pinpoint which

of the interventions actually worked but that's what I'm looking for I'm looking for aortic blood flow because now I've got a hole in that in that clot that's getting blood flow to the left ventricle which starts to reverse that RV

dysfunction that we were concerned about make sure I'm okay with time so we'll

I want this to be as instructive as possible I do have some multiple-choice questions that are peppered in there and hopefully you guys feel comfortable enough to shout out answers I really don't care if you get it right or wrong so but if I teach it right I hope it's

clear what the answers are okay so and and I know the title test says that I'm going to be talking about parts frankly I think there's a lot more to talk about about PE other than parts and I'm not going to be emphasizing that

but if there's time to ask questions or I'm happy to speak about that as well because I think the disease and the treatments are really the crux of PE at this point okay so I start with something called the landscape where are

we with pulmonary embolism well you know I don't know how many of you have seen PE in the IR suite or have dealt with these patients or even have friends or family that have had a PE but I don't think anybody who's interacted with this

disease would argue with the fact that PE is a big deal why do I say that statistically speaking well there are 900 000 VTE events per year that's DVT or PE that's a lot it's almost a million now the number of deaths from PE every

years quoted to be as high as 300 000 but is around 60 150 is what we think so quite a few this affects everybody you know you might have heard of Serena Williams getting a PE Chris Bosh and Serena Williams I think had a massive PE

which I'll tell you the definition of that later but it's a it's it's something that can affect a young person and kill that young person so that's what makes it a little bit tougher than some of the other diseases it's the

third most common cause of cardiovascular death stroke mi then PE ten percent are fatal within the first hour so a lot of these patients you're not even gonna see and when you do see them you've got a big task ahead of you

because they're you're trying to rescue them from death that's basically the same statistic now if you were to take every patient who comes into the hospital and you put an echocardiogram on them and you looked at the right

ventricle their right ventricle would show some evidence of dysfunction and so that's an interesting statistic because right ventricular dysfunction is you'll see on a subsequent slide is actually a pretty big deal and is actually at the

crux the pathophysiology of PE now if you were to do a VQ scan around six months after people got a PE you would find that 1/3 of those patients actually have residual thrombus so we think that you

know PE is a acute disease but what we're finding is that it's actually a cute disease that can become chronic and a lot of people and we're actually revealing unveiling the fact that maybe a year or two years after their PE these

patients aren't doing as well as we thought so that this is a burden it's a chronic it's a chronic disease that causes a burden on their lives so this is the disease and and you know as an IR you look at this and you say well that's

pretty exciting looks like we can intervene on something meaningfully but there are some caveats we should remember first most patients have low risk PE s I'll define that in a little bit but these patients don't need an

intervention they just need anticoagulation to the best of our knowledge that says all this this group needs sub massive PE I'll spend quite a bit of time on and it's a very controversial topic and there's a

lot of different attitudes between interventionalists and non interventionists about sub massive PE when you get a massive PE patient this is the patient that's crashing and burning most of them should receive

systemic thrombolysis which is an IV in the arm and a drug through their vein it's the fastest thing you can do and it doesn't involve corralling an IR suite the team for the IR suite or a surgical team and as I just said there's a wide

range of attitudes regarding treatment aggressiveness so I'm not going to go

so why staging important well when you go to treat someone if I tell you I have a lollipop shaped tumor and you make a lollipop shape ablation zone over it you have to make sure that it's actually a lollipop shaped to begin with so here's

a patient I was asked to ablate at the bottom corner we had a CT scan that showed pretty nice to confined lesion looked a little regular so we got an MRI the MRI shows that white signal that's around there then hyperintensity that's

abnormal and so when we did an angiogram you can see that this is an infiltrate of hepatocellular carcinoma so had I done an ablation right over that center-of-mass consistent with what we saw on the CT it

wouldn't be an ablation failure the blasian was doing its job we just wouldn't have applied it to where the tumor actually was so let's talk about

alright so hashtag filter Friday so this is kind of another fun way where you can post a true tweet we I don't know why they seem to always come on Friday for me maybe because there are a lot of

elective cases but we kind of throw in hashtag filter Friday so here's one of our colleagues and you can see from his tweets kinda hard for me to read here but the other thing he's done is you notice he's tagged everybody down below

that that does this here's one of mine which I just showed you from from there and I actually had I thought that my fellow had a hashtag but I had a handle but as you can see it didn't show up there Kim Kowski I found that one later

here's another filter Friday and then added the filter out to it problem is is that if you actually google or look for filter Friday you get stuff like this that this honey barbecue chicken strip that looks like a turd I have no idea

where the filter Friday came from but he got filter Friday this one is kind of interesting so it starts off Kumar did this one where he had a medical student he's reaching out the medical students did the filter out on the first try it's

got a nice picture of her on there and the the case you know tagged a bunch of us but what's just interesting is the positive affirmation that comes from this so it becomes almost like a little cheerleading so here's the as we go down

you can start to read some of these we got some some nice things here I was trying to say you know congratulations graduate everybody just kind of getting behind this person saying yeah and then you keep going and I mean this just kept

going and going and if you can read here is another Bob Vogel saying thing later I found out it's because it's hard to push the syringe beads through a micro catheter but hey it's still amazing and of course

another positive information the others

who came in with just over she had a four month with delayed heal wound she finally presented at us after the wound

healed because she had rest pain that wasn't recognized they thought the pain was due to the the wound the wound healed and they realized oh she still has pain well that's because she has crippled limb ischemia and so she was

she was brought in for that just you know she has bilateral disease I'm just gonna concentrate on talking about the right leg for for today's discussion but she does have inflow disease in these types of patients I do get

cross-sectional imaging so I can determine just how extensive the iliac diseases or if it involves the aorta to then determine what it what to make sort of jumping into it so the right leg again she has about a 10-7

occlusion of the bright SFA this occlusion here's the femur for reference the knee is actually down way down here so this is actually just above the a doctor again tried to use in this case I did do wire work I got past a good

portion of it here's my wire right here and here's the O pacified lumen so what you can see is the wires actually adjacent to the lumen so at this point I'm re said suspecting that I'm sub intimal I confirm that by removing the

wire do little puff there's blushing that blush is up intimal so I know I'm sub intimal so at this point what were the things you can do obviously the first things you do try to pull that back try to find a different space a

different location to wreak analyze when that's not successful then you start thinking about southern super recanalization multiple devices for that there's the outback device which is a little hook that you can try to spear

yourself into the main lumen and pass a wire there's also device from Medtronic about the anterior device what this is it's a balloon that you inflate to sort of stick yourself into that wall it has two ports that are on the side one

points one direction one points the other direction it allows you to find that open lumen and we use a re-entry angled wire to get back in so in this case just as a cartoon here's the the anterior device place downward this is

would be the balloon inflated you would basically jab into the port into the into the main lumen so that's sort of basically what I did here again here's the agile device each of the ports you can see as a little divot once you put

it sideways you can determine which we are going to stick there's my wire right into the lumen and there it is down further into the rest of the the vessel subsequent to that pre-dive it with a three and then overlapping

since were used finally here is her post i did treat both legs but you can see just the dramatic difference going from the monophasic waveforms to tri-phasic waveforms restoration table api's for her I couldn't help but throw this in

I want to thank everybody for having me here I'm really not as big a deal on Twitter as everybody thinks I am but I have had some fun on Twitter and hopefully we'll have a little bit of fun with this this is advanced IVC filter retrieval and if any of you all have

ever been on these cases they can have some pretty scary moments and but it's always satisfying when you get this piece of metal out of the patient no matter how mangled it may see and so I said this is really where a lot of my

tweets have come from is because I usually take a picture afterwards because the patient's always want to see what they look like when they come out unless I actually have data to be able to present and so this is kind of what

I've learned from Twitter about difficult IVC filter treatable so it all kind of I gotten invited to help out with this article and not only is this article about Twitter and Twitter are which is kind of our little hashtag we

use for the more active members in Twitter and Internet radiology it's a molarity - hashtag irad but we really wanted to understand the the ecosystem behind twitter for anniversary ology that practice and what I want to

say is that if you look at the names on here none of us are from the same institution this entire article was crowdsource through Twitter and through email we never met we wrote the paper all separate and then put it all

together and the board really just did a phenomenal job of keeping us on task to do this so what did we really come up with in this number one is the potential for public awareness of our specialty through several different communication

travels channels and Mishelle kind of talked about this a little bit but there's there's all different channels that are a parent on the social media and this is Twitter specific but it is all of the

social medias but you know I are too patient I aren't a patient advocacy groups I've learned a lot of the handles for things such as the I do a lot of pulmonary AVMs and so that society and and the hht society targeting them when

I put a quote about put a tweet in there IRD ir kumar can talk about that a little bit but that's really key I heard other specialties and this is not trolling this is actually inviting them and I'll show some examples of some

cross-pollination that's happened and then of course I our two trainees I really probably should put in there I our two texts or IRA nurses that that that community is growing as well we didn't have it in on our paper but and

then innovative uses in academics education and there was a abstract presented SAR that groups solely out of a call for help on Twitter and then if you've been around we have these Twitter chats around a certain topic and these

are really great ways of presenting questions and then have people answer those questions from all different backgrounds and this really has grown to all aspects of of health care Babri you who really is the the king of Twitter in

my mind if you he's at Denver he wrote this paper this is back in in 2000 and I believe when he wrote this article and he he actually came up with this whole idea of filter out and it's kind of funny because he he admits that he

started off writing fake tweets posing as Bob vogelzang when he was at Northwestern but he came up with this idea of creating a hashtag for a very specific procedure to bring awareness if you guys remember in 2010 was when the

CDC put out the information saying we need to start removing filters and this was a ground grassroots effort to kind of get the word out and and it had the it had the the benefits of getting this message out but also had benefits of

connecting people to specialties or centers where they could really get this done you can use a lot of different types of analytical devices this comes from hashtag fi comm and this is a analysis of the filter out and what

these lines and circles are or what is associated with filter out so you have PE as a big one you have I rat as a big one without a scalpel the gtfo which is one that I like to use it's not what you think it is it's get the filter out and

then what's what's really interesting is Vancouver had a we kind of had a high point of tweets in Vancouver and that surf 16 Vancouver actually made it to the big big leads so if you then take irad and take that out and say what what

is connected to IRAD you have cancer as the biggest one which i think is really interesting without a scalpel radiology NIP grad res again vancouver filter out just a little bit part of that in the thing and then I kind of thought I'd do

GTFO see what's associated with that and this was right around when Mariah Carey did her music video about it Trump resigned so that's the other gtfo not this gtfo is one of my tweets whoops and there it

is again

so just a compliment what we everybody's talked about I think a great introduction for diagnosing PID the imaging techniques to evaluate it some of the Loney I want to talk about some of the above knee interventions no disclosures when it sort of jumped into

a little bit there's a 58 year old male who has a focal non-healing where the right heel now interestingly we when he was referred to me he was referred to for me for a woman that they kept emphasizing at the anterior end going

down the medial aspect of the heel so when I literally looked at that that was really a venous stasis wound so he has a mixed wound and everybody was jumping on that wound but his hour till wound was this this right heel rudra category-five

his risk factors again we talked about diabetes being a large one that in tandem with smoking I think are the biggest risk factors that I see most patient patients with wounds having just as we talked about earlier we I started

with a non-invasive you can see on the left side this is the abnormal side the I'm sorry the right leg is the abnormal the left leg is the normal side so you can see the triphasic waveforms the multiphasic waveforms on the left the

monophasic waveforms immediately at the right I don't typically do a lot of cross-sectional imaging I think a lot of information can be obtained just from the non-invasive just from this the first thing going through my head is he

has some sort of inflow disease with it that's iliac or common I'll typically follow within our child duplex to really localize the disease and carry out my treatment I think a quick comment on a little bit of clinicals so these

waveforms will correlate with your your Honourable pencil Doppler so one thing I always emphasize with our staff is when they do do those audible physical exams don't tell me whether there's simply a Doppler waveform or a Doppler pulse I

don't really care if there's not that means their leg would fall off what I care about is if monophasic was at least multiphasic that actually tells me a lot it tells me a lot afterwards if we gain back that multiphase the city but again

looking at this a couple of things I can tell he has disease high on the right says points we can either go PITA we can go antegrade with no contralateral in this case I'll be since he has hide he's used to the right go contralateral to

the left comment come on over so here's the angio I know NGOs are difficult Aaron when there's no background so just for reference I provided some of the anatomy so this is the right you know groin area

right femur so the right common from artery and SFA you have a downward down to the knee so here's the pop so if we look at this he has Multi multi multiple areas of disease I would say that patients that have above knee disease

that have wounds either have to level disease meaning you have iliac and fem-pop or they at least have to have to heal disease typically one level disease will really be clot against again another emphasis a lot of these patients

since they're not very mobile they're not very ambulatory this these patients often come with first a wound or rest pain so is this is a patient was that example anyway so what we see again is the multifocal occlusions asta knows

he's common femoral origin a common femoral artery sfa origin proximal segment we have a occlusion at the distal sfa so about right here past the air-duct iratus plus another occlusion at the mid pop to talk about just again

the tandem disease baloney he also has a posterior tibial occlusion we talked about the fact that angio some concept so even if I treat all of this above I have to go after that posterior tibial to get to that heel wound and complement

the perineal so ways to reach analyze you know the the biggest obstacle here is on to the the occlusions i want to mention some of the devices out there I'm not trying to get in detail but just to make it reader where you know there's

the baiance catheter from atronics essentially like a little metal drill it wobbles and tries to find the path of least resistance to get through the occlusion the cross or device from bard is a device that is essentially or what

I call is a frakking device they're examples they'll take a little peppermint they'll sort of tap away don't roll the hole peppermint so it's like a fracking device essentially it's a water jet

that's pulse hammering and then but but to be honest I think the most effective method is traditional wire work sorry about that there are multiple you know you're probably aware of just CTO wires multi weighted different gramm wires 12

gram 20 gram 30 gram wires I tend to start low and go high so I'll start with the 12 gram uses supporting micro catheter like a cxi micro catheter a trailblazer and a B cross so to look at here the sheath I've placed a sheet that

goes into the SFA I'm attacking the two occlusions first the what I used is the micro catheter about an 1/8 micro catheter when the supporting my catheters started with a trailblazer down into the crossing the first

occlusion here the first NGO just shows up confirmed that I'm still luminal right I want to state luminal once I've crossed that first I've now gone and attacked the second occlusion across that occlusion so once I've cross that

up confirm that I'm luminal and then the second question is what do you want to do with that there's gonna be a lot of discussions on whether you want Stan's direct me that can be hold hold on debate but I think a couple of things we

can agree we're crossing their courageous we're at the pop if we can minimize standing that region that be beneficial so for after ectomy couple of flavors there's the hawk device which

essentially has a little cutter asymmetrical cutter that allows you to actually shave that plaque and collect that plaque out there's also a horrible out there device that from CSI the dime back it's used to sort of really sort of

like a plaque modifier and softened down that plaque art so in this case I've used this the hawk device the hawk has a little bit of a of a bend in the proximal aspect of the catheter that lets you bias the the device to shape

the plaque so here what I've done you there you can see the the the the the teeth itself so you can tell we're lateral muta Liz or right or left is but it's very hard to see did some what's AP and posterior so usually

what I do is I hop left and right I turned the I about 45 degrees and now to hawk AP posterior I'm again just talking left to right so I can always see where the the the the AP ended so I can always tell without the the teeth

are angioplasty and then here once I'm done Joan nice caliber restored flow restored then we attacked the the common for most enosis and sfa stenosis again having that device be able to to an to direct

that device allows me to avoid sensing at the common femoral the the plaque is resolved from the common femoral I then turn it and then attack the the plaque on the lateral aspect again angioplasty restore flow into the common firm on the

proximal SFA so that was the there's the plaque that you can actually obtain from that Hawk so you're physically removing that that plaque so so that's you know that's the the restoration that flow just just you know I did attack the

posterior tibial I can cross that area I use the diamond back for that balloon did open it up second case is a woman

individually into each one of these trials but I want to just point out to you how busy the last 5 years have been because it has really caused a

resurgence in our interest in both treating PE better and what the gaps are in our knowledge so I will point out in 2014 this was an inflection point for 10 years we didn't have a major trial actually more like 12 or 15 years we

hadn't had a major trial in in PE and pytho was a 1000 patient study that informed us about how systemic thrombolytics interact with sub massive P and I'll go through the data that same year

catheterized thrombolysis is everybody familiar with catheter at the thrombolysis for submasters before Pease that's totally off the grid okay good well this was the first time we had a randomized trial for catheter directly

thrombolysis with some with some massive PE only problem was it was 59 patients in Europe so and that's all we have as far as randomized trials for CDT this is my soapbox issue I'm sorry if you've heard me say this but that's that's my

big goal is to try to change that 2015 had some follow-on CDT trials 2017 this is when we started thinking about the long term effects of PE on patients both of these studies started to examine the issue where a year after the PE patients

are not normal if you did a for example this elope long term study almost 50% of patients had an abnormal cardio pulmonary function test one year later 2018 we started to experiment with the dosage that we're

administering during CDT that's the optimized trial and we saw the first trial completed for a mechanical device called the NRA flow trailer which I'll show you later in the talk as well so that was an exciting inflection point as

well the extract PE trial which uses the indigo cat 8 device to aspirate thrombus in pulmonary embolism we just completed enrollment this year the future is hopefully bright for generating more data the PERT consortium registry is up

and running and is hopefully going to help us aggregate data and make better decisions and then you have a couple more devices coming in and I'll tell you our efforts to try to really improve the knowledge base on what CDT for sub

massive P that's the P track trial that's the last bullet point there okay

craft is basically the only FDA approved stain crafts and I'll show you a

different way of doing it as well besides the Viator especially in countries where the Viator does not does not exist okay the Viator stand sits in the liver just like just like in my hand here the bare

portion is on the portal venous circulation the covered portion is basically on the hepatic vein part of the circulation okay the bare portion is chain-linked and is very flexible that's why kind of cut can crimp like that okay

they're both self expanding the bare portion is self expanding held by the sheath only the covered portion is held by a court okay so they're both self expanding but they're constraints by two different two different two different

methods one's a sheath constraint and one is a is a cord constraint okay these are the measurements the bare portion theoretically allows portal flow to pass if you're in a branch so it doesn't cost from boses of the portal vein branch in

the covered portion is important to cover the parental tract the youth that you've created in the past you had a lot of billary leaks into the tips if it's a bear stance bile is from by genic so it causes thromboses bile also instigates a

lot of reactionary tissue such as pseudo intimal hyperplasia that actually causes the narrowings of the of these tips if you causing bear stance the coverage stance prevents the bile leaks from actually leaking into into the shunt

itself okay and that's why it has a higher patency rate okay ideally this is how it's it's a portal vein and hepatic vein you'll hear people say proximal and distal you'll he'll hear radiologists especially diagnostic

radiologist referring to proximal and distal proximal and distal some people refer to the portal venous and is proximal some people refer to the paddock venous and is proximal and vice versa okay and it

gets confusing nobody knows well what's proximal okay the people that say portal venous and is proximal there they're talking about its proximal to flow so it's basically the first thing that flow hits people that

call the paddock venous and proximal they're talking relatives of the body more central is proximal more peripheral is distal okay so they're using these the same terminology is very confusing so the best thing to use and I we tell

that to radiologists who tell that to IRS is to talk a portal venous and hepatic venous end you don't talk proximal distal everybody knows where the portal venous end is and where everybody knows where the peregrinus end

is and there's no confusion strictly speaking which is the correct one which is proximal for us as IRS tax nurses proximal is always to flow proximal is always anticipate to flow so the correct thing is actually proximal

is the portal venous ends remember P proximal P portal okay proximal is where the expected flow is coming in that's actually the correct one but just to leave e8 the confusion portal venous and hepatic venous end okay there's a new

stents which is the controlled expansion stents it's in my opinion it feels exactly like the old stance the only difference between it is that it's constrained still has the same twenty to twenty millimeter or two centimeter bare

portion chain-linked it still has that four to eight centimeter covered portion but it's constrained in the middle okay and has the same gold ring to actually market the to the to a bare portion and the cover portion self expanding portion

and is constrained down to eight millimeters you can dilate it to eight and nine and ten initially there was a constant there was a misconception that it was like a string like a purse string that you break and jumps from eight

and no this is actually truly a controlled where if you put a nine-millimeter balloon it will dilate to nine only eight balloon little dialect to eight only the only the only key thing is that the atmospheres has to

be ten millimeters at least okay so it has to be a high pressure balloon has to be at least 10 min 10 10 atmospheres okay so when you're passing that that balloon over make sure that it's that that it that at least it's burst is 10

millimeters or or EXA or more on a 10 mil on on 10 atmospheres okay next thing is when you're making a needle pass you got your target now with a co2 you got the portal vein you've got your stank craft and you know how it works okay how

do you make your needle pass okay and how do you know if your needle has hit the portal vein or not there are two schools to do this okay one school is to make a needle pass and aspirate as you pull back and when you get blood back

you basically inject contrast okay before you do all that when you make your needle pass you push saline and especially if you do if you're using a large system so there are several kits out there there is the cook kits that's

a color pinto needle that's a large gauge 14 gauge needle there is the new gore kits which is also 14 gauge needle it's a big system these large systems you need to push out that poor plug that's kind of like a biopsy you have to

push it out with saline first and then as you pull back aspirate okay the other system is a ratio cheetah or a Rocha cheetah it's actually pronounced rasa schita and that's a very small system that there won't be a core that you have

to push out okay so anyway if you're using a large system like a coop into a needle which is the cook system or the gore system you push that plug out and then there are two schools school two aspirates you get blood back you inject

contrast if you're in the hepatic in in the portal vein you basically access it with a wire the other school is to do a ptc style you actually puff contrasts as you pull back you do not ask for H saline you actually puff

contrasts as you pull back okay the latter puffing contrasts as you pull back is the minority I would say less than two percent of operators are gonna puff okay ninety-eight percent of operators at

least are gonna actually aspirate and not puff okay I'm actually in the minority I'm in the 2% and there are advantages and disadvantages like I promised you two different ways and advantages and disadvantage to each to

each one the advantages of puffing contrasts even if you missed the portal vein after a while you actually get contrast around the portal vein and you actually have a visual of the portal vein that's the advantage so when you're

actually injecting contrast and you're missing it you get contrast around the portal vein it actually goes around the portal and you actually see the portal vein and it takes training sometimes this one's easy

okay I'll show you some more difficult ones but this is a beautiful pussy typical portal vein okay in addition to that oh go back in do you see that you see that hole in the middle there see that signal signal you watch that

because you're gonna see it again and again that's usually a posterior portal vein posterior right portal vein heading heading away from you okay that's usually a good target and I'll show you that again here's a little

little bit less obvious to the untrained eye but this is actually where the portal vein sits right there okay so sometimes it needs training right just actually see where the portal vein is and once you've stained the portal vein

then you have a real-time image of where the portal vein is you can actually go go after it and it reduces your needle passes disadvantages of using contrast and puffing away is that it creates a mess okay if you make multiple passes

you and you miss on the multiple passes then you start creating a mess and even with your DSA you can't even see the portal you can't see the portal vein because you've got this great mess another disadvantage of using contrast

is that you have to stomach what you're gonna see okay you make a needle pass and you don't inject contrast you have no proof of where you've been but if you're making a needle pass and you're

injecting contrast you and everybody else is gonna see where you've been that's usually not a good thing sometimes you will see bowel you see gold bladder you'll see arteries you'll see veins you'll see all sorts of stuff

that nobody wants to see and you don't want to document okay so that's another disadvantage so I recommend especially young physicians especially young physicians in places that are not used to this especially young physicians that

are new to hospitals and they're gonna they're gonna make multiple passes not to do this was they're gonna be very they'll be criticized a lot by their texts and by the institution by their colleagues as to what have you done you

know big mass artery you've hit artery but the guys and gals that are just aspirating and not injecting they're actually not documenting what they're going through but they're going through the same stuff okay

okay next up this I think this video yep

about massive PE so let's remember this slide 25 to 65 percent mortality what do we do with this what's our goal what's

our role as interventionalists here well we need to rescue these patients from death you know this it's a coin flip that they're going to die we need to really that there's only one job we have is to save this person's life get them

out of that vicious cycle get more blood into the left ventricle and get their systemic blood pressure up what are our tools systemic thrombolysis at the top catherine directed therapy at the right and surgical level that what

unblocked me at the left as I said before the easiest thing to do is put an IV in and give systemic thrombolysis but what's interesting is it's very much underused so this is a study from Paul Stein he looked at the National

inpatient sample database and he found that patients that got thrombolytic therapy with hypotension and this is all based on icd-10 coding actually had a better outcome than those who didn't we have several other studies that support

this but you look at this and it seems like our use of thrombolytics and massive PE is going down and I think into the for whatever reason that that the specter of bleeding is really on people's minds and and for and we're not

using systemic thrombolysis as often as we should that being said there are cases in which thrombolytics are contraindicated or in which they fail and that opens the door for these other therapies surgical unblocked demand

catheter active therapy surgical unblocked mean really does have a role here I'm not going to speak about it because I'm an interventionist but we can't forget that so catheter directed therapy all sorts

of potential options you got the angio vac device over here you've got the penumbra cat 8 device here you've got an infusion catheter both here and here you've got the cleaner device I haven't pictured the inari float

Reaver which is a great new device that's entered the market as well my message to you is that you can throw the kitchen sink at these patients whatever it takes to open up a channel and get blood to the left ventricle you can do

now that being said there is the angio jet which has a blackbox warning in the pulmonary artery I will never use it because I'm not used to using it but you talk to Alan Matsumoto Zieve Haskell these guys have a lot of experience with

the androgen and PE they know how to use it but I would say though they're the only two people that I know that should use that device because it is associated with increased death within the setting of PE we don't really know you know with

great precision why that happens but theoretically what that causes is a release of adenosine can cause bradycardia bradycardia and massive p/e they just don't mix well so

basically putting it all together we go into basically a lot of our adjunctive tools so are a lot of our interventional equipment so I've as rotablator a threat

to me devices etc and so we really rely heavily on our vendors for the support and they're great to work with they love coming in they left to teach and actually and it's also a little bit of a break from for the learners for other

than listening to Alice and I so they like kind of having the vendors come in and they get a chance to play with the equipment as well and then our last day we do basically a wrap-up we'd do it the same quiz at the very beginning and then

we do a final simulation exercise which we have some pictures for as well and then they finish up with their clinical component okay so here are some examples some pictures that we took with our learners

experiencing and playing with the equipment the simulated equipment that our vendors brought in so this is some of the learners I think that's the Arth rectum a device so they did bring a simulated or threat

to me device and so the learners got to play with it got to understand it obviously our techs and nurses are not doing the procedure the physicians are so they never have a chance to actually play with the equipment or or use the

equipment on a real patient so this was kind of an eye-opener for them understanding how the Arthur ectomy works and how it D bulks and how it takes away calcium so that was a fun experience for them and our second

picture is just an example of an Ibis when we brought in our ibis vendors identifying what plaque looks like in an artery and through the intravascular ultrasound right so learning where the plaque is located if the descent Rick it

is not so there's so many different components of our inner vascular ultrasound that they actually learned a lot from as well so a couple examples of that so this is just a live picture of our learners playing with the Arthur

ectomy device I think that's the rotablator and they've improved their rotablator so it's not the nitrous tank that weighs three tons coming in the room we did so they did improve that so again just an example of them using the

simulated equipment and I think they really enjoyed that so again we wanted to really evaluate our learners we also wanted to evaluate our programs so again like I mentioned we did a pre post test and so and afterwards we did a

statistical analysis of their scores to determine really did this make a difference at least in their knowledge and what we found was it was statistically significant as evidenced by the P level of being less than point

zero zero one we also include doing pop quizzes pretty much every week and maybe every other day and so I know that they hated it but it actually helped us to really put into place where we needed to focus and what we needed to

review so that really helped us a lot and then again simulation and we go into that a little bit more too so again with the program overall we really looked at participant feedback through electronic evaluations we also did a start-stop

continue exercise at the very on our very last day because we wanted to get real-time feedback and so now that we've been through it about a year I think we may stop doing that however we will continue to do at least the electronic

evaluations at the end of the course and our learners were very satisfied with this program so a 3.97 out of 4 on a Likert scale really it's telling us that they really enjoy this program and they gave us very valuable feedback we also

got preceptor feedback and we also did a debriefing with what we call our governance team so basically a lot of the stakeholders that I mentioned before especially our operational leaders and our chief medical officer really going

into that and finding out what is it that we needed to really improve how can we continue to support etc and and everything else like that so very

pressure of 60 over 40 minimally responsive I'll give you that

there are probably two right answers if you were going to figure to go by the book on this this PE qualifies as a good I agree with a now what about e somebody pointed this out the other day and I was like oh yeah it's a reasonable point

exactly it has to be greater than 15 minutes so theoretically e is correct as well but that's not what I meant when I put question together all these pitfalls okay

multiple choice question number two seventy year old woman blood pressure of 128 over eighty heart rate of 115 RV strain on echo elevated troponin what type of PE is this I hear a lot of C's that's correct

so let's go through this so yes this person has RV strain on both echo and an elevated troponin so meets that criterion but how do we know the especi is or the passier the especi is positive here the heart rate exactly so the heart

rate on that scale had to be greater than 110 it's 115 so positive especi RV strain and echo elevated troponin high risk intermediate PE 24 year old woman blood pressure of 150 over 80 heart rate of 95 no RV strain large central embolus

what type of PE is this sorry can someone be a little louder dee dee is correct so just the the the thing I was trying to trip you up on is the large central embolus at this point we still do not use where the embolus is as

a criterion for stratification okay now I will say that large central embolus tends to correlate with our V strain so you will see a lot more patients with central embolus have our V dysfunction at the same time and so they'll often

meet the criteria for the sub massive are massive but if you have just a totally normal right ventricle no elevation and the in their troponin and their BNP that is still technically a low risk PE and we'll see this sometimes

kind of the embolic protection because I think with carotid artery stenting the stents there's a lot of different types they're all self expanding for the most

part and there's not a lot to talk about there but there is with regards to embolic protection and there so there's distal and violent protection where you have this where that blue little sheath in the common carotid artery you got a

wire through the ica stenosis and a little basket or filter distally before you put the stent in early on they used to think oh maybe we'll do distal balloon occlusion put a balloon up distally do your intervention aspirate

whatever collects behind the balloon and then take the balloon down not so ideal because you never really asked for it a hundred percent of the debris and then whatever whenever you deflate the balloon it goes back it goes up to the

brain you still have some embolic phenomenon in the cerebral vascular churn and then there's this newer concept of proximal protection where you use either flow reversal reverse the blood flow in the cerebral circulation

or you actually cause a stagnant column of blood in the ica so you can't get you don't get anything that embolize is up distally but you have this stagnant column the debris collects there you aspirate that actively before you take

down the balloons that are in position in the X carotids and common carotid artery and then you take everything out so let's walk through each of these if you really wanted to pick out the perfect embolic

protection device it's got to be relatively easy to use it's got to be stable in position so it's not moving up and down and causing injury to the vessel but even while it's in place cerebral perfusion is maintained so that

balloon the distal balloon not a great idea because you're cutting off all the blood flow to the brain you might stop something from embolizing up distally but in the process of doing that you may patient may not tolerate that you want

complete protection during all aspects of the procedure so when we place a filter as you'll see just crossing the lesion with the initial filter can cause a distal embolus so that's a problem you want to be able to use your guide wire

choice as many of you know when we go through peripheral vasculature there's your go-to wires but it doesn't always work every time with that one go-to wire so you want to be able to pick the wire that you want to use or

change it up if needed for different lesions so if you get to use your wire of choice then then that's gonna be a better system than something that's man deter and then if you have a hard time using that wire to get across the lesion

you have a problem overall and then ultimately where do you land that protection device and a few diagrams here to help illustrate this generally speaking these distal embolic protection these filters that go beyond

the lesion have been used for quite a while and are relatively safe you can see them pretty easily and geographically they have little markers on them that signify if they're open or closed and we look for that overall and

blood flows through them it's just a little sieve a little basket that collects really tiny particles micrometers in size but allows blood flow to pass through it so you're not actually causing any cessation of blood

flow to the brain but you are protecting yourself from that embolic debris and it's generally well tolerated overall we had really good results in fact when not using this device there's a lot of strokes that were occurring in use of

this device dramatic reduction so a significant improvement in this procedural area by utilization of embolic protection however distal embolic protection or filter devices are not a perfect APD as you as you may know

those of you have been involved in carotid stenting there is no cerebral protection when you cross the lesion if you have a curlicue internal carotid artery this filter doesn't sit right and and ultimately may not cause

good protection or actually capture everything that breaks off the plaque and it can be difficult to deliver in those really tortuous internal carotid arteries so ultimately you can cross the lesion but you may not get this filter

up if you don't get the filter up you can't put the stent then ultimately you're out of luck so you gotta have a different option filters may not provide complete cerebral protection if they're not fully opposed and again it does

allow passage of really tiny particles right so your blood cells have to be able to pass but even though it's less than about a hundred microns may be significant enough to cause a significant stroke if it goes to the

right basket of territory so it's not perfect protection and then if you have so much debris you can actually overload the filter fill it up in tile and entirely and then you have a point where when you capture the filter there's some

residual debris that's never fully captured either so these are concerns and then ultimately with that filter in place you can cause a vessel dissection when you try to remove it or if it's bouncing up and down without good

stability you can cause spasm to the vessel as well and so these are the things that we look for frequently because we want to make sure that ultimately if we just sent the lesion but we don't believe the vessel distal

to it intact and we're going to have a problem so here's some kind of illustrated diagrams for this here's a sheath in the common carotid artery you see your plaque lesion in the internal carotid artery and you're trying to

cross this with that filter device that's what's the picture on the right but as you're crossing that lesion you're you're liberating a little plaque or debris which you see here and during that period of time until the filters in

place you're not protected so all that debris is going up to the brain so there's that first part of the procedure where you're not protected that's one of the pitfalls or concerns particularly with very stenotic lesions or friable

lesions like this where you're not protected until that filters in place that first step you never are protected in placement of a filter here's an example where you have a torturous internal carotid artery so you see this

real kink these are kinds of carotid internal carotid arteries that we can see and if you place that filter in that bend that you can see right at the bend there the bottom part the undersurface of the carotid doesn't have good wall

my position of the filter so debris can can slip past the filter on the under under surface of this which is a real phenomenon and you can see that you can say well what if we oversize the filter if you oversize the filter then it then

it just oval eyes Azure or it crimps and in folds on itself so you really have to size this to the specific vessel that you plan to target it in but just the the physics of this it's it's a tube think about a balloon a balloon doesn't

conform to this it tries to straighten everything out this isn't going to straighten the vessel out so it doesn't fully conform on the full end of the filter and you have incomplete a position and therefore

incomplete filtration so this is another failure mode I mentioned before what if it gets overloaded so here's a diagram where you have all this debris coming up it's filling up the really tiny tiny particles go past it because this little

micro sieve allows really small particles to go distal but approximately it's overloaded so now you get all this debris in there you place your stent you take your retrieval filter or catheter to take this filter out and all that

stuff that's sitting between the overloaded filter and your stent then gets liberated and goes up to the brain so you got to worry about that as well I mentioned this scenario that it builds up so much so that you can't get all the

debris out and ultimately you lose some and then when the filter is full and debris particles that are suspended near the stent or if you put that filter too close to the edge of the stent you run into problems where it may catch the

stent overall and you have all of this debris and it looks small and you don't really see it and geographically obviously but ultimately is when you do a stroke assessment and it's not always devastating strokes but mild symptoms

where he had a stroke neurologist and the crest trial or most of the more recent clinical trials we actually evaluate a patient and notice that they had small maybe sub sub clinical or mild strokes that were noted they weren't

perhaps devastating strokes but they had things that caused some degree of disability so not insignificant here's a case example of a carotid stent that was done this is a case out of Arizona proximal carotid

stenosis stent placed but then distal thrombus that developed in this case and had post rhombus removal after the epd was removed so there's thrombus overloaded the the filter you can see the filter at the very top of the center

image you can see the sort of the shadow of the embolic protection device there distally aspirated that took the filter out and then ultimately removed but you can imagine that amount of thrombus up in the brain would have been a

devastating stroke and this is what the filter looks like in real life so this is what the debris may look like so it's not this is not overloaded but that's significant debris and you can see the little film or sieve that's on the

distal part of this basket and that's what captures the debris any of that in the brain is gonna leave this patient with a residual stroke despite a successful stenting procedure so this is what we're trying to avoid so in spite

her I couldn't help but throw this in

just talking about back device here's a patient that had a iliac occlusion the right it was very difficult to get past the very proximal plaque cap so in this case I did a sub into a we can remember I talked about that out back device it

has like a little L and upside down L that you can use to point into the vessel lumen so what I did was on the healthy side I put in a sauce on me this allows me to know exactly where the arches and where the right coming he

like origin is certainly I don't want to be out backing into the aorta deeply right so this allows me to identify where that location is once I've out backed into the vessel here then I just pre dilated and then stent it up into

the vessels so just sort of interesting case one thing since I am Austin there's a couple of places just you may or may not be aware of this is a Barton Creek it's actually not just a cross town lake not far from here it's about a seven

mile a little Greenbelt inside the city where basically you don't feel like getting your traffic your gaze definitely away from everything this is called the land bridge oops so there's a couple of guys right here

that's about probably about a 20-foot jump there's this guy right here who just took off from that ledge it's about a 40 50 foot drop I did try to get up to that part one time it's about it one foot with ledge so I didn't get the ax

courage to do it now I'm sort of happy because during the summer months it does get just dry up so what I noticed with this is this is about a 10 12 foot depth here this guy's jumped in something's about

12 to 15 deep so it's sort of interesting the the balls enos of these guys some guys are doing backflips out there there is water there so you know if you guys have a chance check it out

if you do happen to find it I'm not encouraging it excited I wanna get sued but if you want to take a jump off have fun all right thank you [Applause]

of these issues filters are generally still use or were used up until a few years ago or five years ago almost exclusively and then between five years and a decade ago there was this new concept of proximal protection or flow

reversal that came about and so this is the scenario where you don't actually cross the lesion but you place a couple balloons one in the external carotid artery one in the common carotid artery and you stop any blood flow that's going

through the internal carotid artery overall so if there's no blood flowing up there then when you cross the lesion without any blood flow there's nothing nowhere for it to go the debris that that is and then you can angioplasty and

or stent and then ultimately place your stent and then get out and then aspirate all of that column of stagnant blood before you deflate the balloons and take your device out so step-by-step I'll walk through this a couple times because

it's a little confusing at least it was for me the first time I was doing this but common carotid artery clamping just like they do in surgery right I showed you the pictures of the surgical into our directa me they do the vessel loops

around the common carotid approximately the eca and the ICA and then actually of clamping each of those sites before they open up the vessel and then they in a sequential organized reproducible manner uncle Dee clamp or unclamp each of those

sites in the reverse order similar to this balloon this is an endovascular clamping if you will so you place this common carotid balloon that's that bottom circle there you inflate you you have that clamping that occurs right

so what happens then is that you've taken off the antegrade blood flow in that common carotid artery on that side you have retrograde blood flow that's coming through from the controller circulation and you have reverse blood

flow from the ECA the external carotid artery from the contralateral side that can retrograde fill the distal common carotid stump and go up the ica ultimately then you can suspend the antegrade blood flow up the common

carotid artery as I said and then you clamp or balloon occlude the external carotid artery so now if you include the external carotid artery that second circle now you have this dark red column of blood up the distal common carotid

artery all the way up the internal carotid artery up until you get the Circle of Willis Circle of Willis allows cross filling a blood on the contralateral side so the patient doesn't undergo stroke because they've

got an intact circulation and they're able to tolerate this for a period of time now you can generally do these with patients awake and assess their ability to tolerate this if they don't tolerate this because of incomplete circle or

incomplete circulation intracranial injury really well then you can you can actually condition the patient to tolerate this or do this fairly quickly because once the balloons are inflated you can move fairly quickly and be done

or do this in stepwise fashion if you do this in combination with two balloons up you have this cessation of blood flow in in the internal carotid artery you do your angioplasty or stenting and post angioplasty if need be and then you

aspirate your your sheath that whole stagnant column of blood you aspirate that with 320 CC syringes so all that blood that's in there and you can check out what you see in the filter but after that point you've taken all that blood

that was sitting there stagnant and then you deflate the balloons you deflate them in stepwise order so this is what happens you get your o 35 stiff wire up into the external carotid artery once it's in the external cart or you do not

want to engage with the lesion itself you take your diagnostic catheter up into the external carotid artery once you're up there you take your stiff wire right so an amp lats wire placed somewhere in the distal external carotid

artery once that's in there you get your sheath in place and then you get your moment devices a nine French device overall and it has to come up and place this with two markers the proximal or sorry that distal markers in the

proximal external carotid artery that's what this picture shows here the proximal markers in the common carotid artery so there's nothing that's touched that lesion so far in any of the images that I've shown and then that's the moma

device that's one of these particular devices that does proximal protection and and from there you inflate the balloon in the external carotid artery you do a little angiographic test to make sure that there's no branch

proximal branch vessels of the external carotid artery that are filling that balloon is inflated now in this picture once you've done that you can inflate the common carotid artery once you've done that now you can take an O on four

wire of your choice cross the lesion because there's no blood flow going so even if you liberated plaque or debris it's not going to go anywhere it's just gonna sit there stagnant and then with that cross do angioplasty this is what

it looks like in real life you have a balloon approximately you have a balloon distally contrast has been injected it's just sitting there stagnant because there's nowhere for it to go okay once the balloons are inflated you've

temporarily suspends this suspended any blood flow within this vasculature and then as long as you confirm that there's no blood flow then you go ahead and proceed with the intervention you can actually check pressures we do a lot of

pressure side sheath pressure measurements the first part of this is what the aortic pressure and common carotid artery pressures are from our sheath then we've inflated our balloons and the fact that there's even any

waveform is actually representative of the back pressure we're getting and there's actually no more antegrade flow in the common carotid artery once you've put this in position then you can stent this once the stent is in place and you

think you like everything you can post dilated and then once you've post dilated then you deflate your balloon right so you deflate your all this debris that's shown in this third picture is sitting there stagnant

you deflate the external carotid artery balloon first and then your common carotid artery and prior to deflating either the balloons you've aspirated the blood flow 320 CC syringes as I said we filter the contents of the third syringe

to see if there's any debris if there's debris and that third filter and that third syringe that we actually continue to ask for eight more until we have a clean syringe but there's no filter debris out because

that might tell us that there's a lot of debris in this particular column of blood because we don't want to liberate any of that so when do you not want to use this well what if the disease that you're dealing with extends past the

common carotid past the internal carotid into the common carotid this device has to pass through that lesion before it gets into the external carotid artery so this isn't a good device for that or if that eca is occluded so you can't park

that kampf balloon that distal balloon to balloon sheath distally into the external carotid artery so that might not be good either if the patient can't tolerate it as I mentioned that's something that we assess for and you

want to have someone who's got some experience with this is a case that it takes a quite a bit of kind of movement and coordination with with the physician technologists or and co-operators that

I was tasked or asked to give a talk on carotid interventions and and there's actually been some change you know I've given to carotid talks over the years I've been doing this now eleven years at the Medical College and there wasn't a lot of innovation for a period of time

and then there's been a sudden kind of tic upwards with the last acronym here t car so we're gonna talk about these three ceac s and T car how many other room are involved with carotid stenting at the local institution I'm gonna do T

car all right so it's not gonna be brand new that's great but there's still I think for some of you pardon me an opportunity to kind of see a new device that's been brought to market over the last few years so with

that what are we gonna talk about these are the objectives it's not really gonna be a data talk this is not the intent I wanna bore you with data there will be a little bit of just sort of what's the purpose for why we do things you know

and percentage of what not but I'm not gonna go through clinical trials the intent here is really to discuss the three main treatment options for carotid occlusive disease and then review the indications for intervention so why

would we treat to symptomatic asymptomatic and then finally review the the endovascular devices or the approaches in general for carotid artery stenting in a strictly endovascular environment or in a hybrid environment

which is what the t'car device is so why

so where we are now these are my concluding slides massive PE is lethal systemic lysis should be used surgery should be discussed immediately in the ECMO which I didn't really get a chance

to talk about it's probably a game-changer because it's almost like a temporizing measure for any of these therapies patient comes in you immediately put them on cardiopulmonary bypass support and then you can decide

what to do should this patient get an embolectomy should this patient get a free directive therapy should we just wait and let the patient write it out and that is a right answer actually just keep them an anticoagulation so this

will be a game-changer for massive PE sub massive PE is dangerous to some of the patients risk benefit of systemic thrombosis is not favorable for most but for some it might be and CDT appears to be promising but we have a lot of work

to do so where we need to go from here is that I think for mass pe we need a prospective registry and we really need a randomized control trial for CDT for sub massive PE thank you very much guys thanks for your attention

questions comments and accusations please hello this topic is very personal to me I've had it actually had a UFE so this is like one of my big things I work in the outpatient center as well as a

hospital where we perform you Effy's and frequently the radiologist will have me go in and talk to the patient it's from a personal perspective one of the issues which it may just have been from my situation was pain control post UFE

whether you normally tell your patients about pain control after the UFE someone say we are all struggling with this yeah oh it's not what's your question is going to be okay good I'm gonna get doctor Dora to answer Shawn the question

is what do you what do we do with this pain issue you know what are you doing for the home there at Emory there you know and a lot of practices we we don't rely on one magic bullet for pain control recently we've been doing

alternate procedures for two adjunctive procedures to help with pain control for example there are nerve blocks that you can do like a superior hypogastric nerve block there's there's Tylenol that can be given intravenously which is seems to

be a little more effective than by mouth there's there's a you know it and a lot of times it's it's a delicate balance right between pain post procedural pain because you can often get the pain well controlled with with narcotics opioid

with a pain pump but the problem is 12 hours later the patients is extremely nauseous and that's what keeps her in the hospital so it's a it's a balance between pain control and nausea you can you can hit the nausea

beforehand using a pain and scopolamine patch that that'll get built up in the system during the procedure and that kind of obviates the nausea issues like I said that the the nerve blocks the the tile and also there are some other

medicines that can can be used adjunctive leaf or for pain control in addition to to the to the opioids so the answer the question is there are multiple there multiple answers to the question there's not one magic bullet so

that helped it did one of the things that I tell the patients is that you know everyone is different and yet some people I've seen patients come out and they have no pain they're like perfect and then some come out and they are

writhing in the bed and they're hurting and they're rolling all around what and I always ask the acid docs are you telling them they could possibly have you know pain after the procedure because some have the expectation that

I'm going to be pain-free and that's not always the case so they have an unrealistic expectation that I'm gonna have the UFE but not have pain what I also tell them is that the pain it's kind of like an investment right and

this is easy for a guy to say that right but but it's it's an investment the worst part the worst pain you should be feeling is the first 12 12 hours or so every day I tell my patient you're gonna be getting better and better and better

with far as the pain as long as you is you follow our little cookbook of medicines that we give you on the way home and I want you to make sure that you fill these prescriptions on the way home or you have someone fill those

prescriptions for you before he or she picked you up in the hospital and lately we have been and I see that you're there as well lots of other little tricks that are out there right and again there are all

little tricks so ensure arterial lidocaine doctor there is near alluded to and if you're on si R Connect you may it may spill over on some of your chat rooms here people have been using like muscle relaxant like flexural or

robertson with some success but just know that we don't have any studies that tell us how that's supposed to do so when i have someone that is like writhing in pain i just use everything so i do it superior hypogastric nerve

vlog and i actually will do some intra-arterial lidocaine although not so much lately i have been using the muscle relaxant but i will warn you that i've had two patients with extreme anticholinergic effects where they are

now not able to pee from that so you know where we're doing that balance act I see that you're there can I take that question here first just so we're we're doing the same thing we're using the multimodal just throwing all these

things at people and we're trying the superior hypogastric blocks but we're collaborating with anesthesia to do that right now do you all do your own blocks or do you collaborate with anesthesia we do our own blocks okay it isn't it is

not that difficult I would tell you that but again it's kind of like you know you got to do if you start feeling better and then you're like we don't really need them we'll just do it on our own okay thank you again yes what's the

acceptable interval between UFE and for IBF oh that's a your question what is the interval between UFE and IVF so if you wanted to get pregnant yeah and can you have a you Fe and then have an IVF like how long would you have to wait

wait and tell you before you can have that the IBF it I guess it really depends on the age of the patient because we know that that the threshold for which patient tend to have that inability to conceive

is around 45 years old so you know it did below the you know below the age of 45 the risk of causing ovarian failure or or the inability to conceive is significantly less it's zero zero to three percent so I would say that you

know you probably want the effects of the fibroid embolization to two to take effect it takes around 12 months for these fibroids to shrink down to their most weight that they're gonna they're going to shrink down the most I wouldn't

say you need to wait 12 months to put our nine vitro fertilization there's no good there's no good literature out there I don't believe that's your next and so I would say just remember that if you came to my practice and you said you

wanted to get pregnant I will be sending you to talk to fertility specialists beforehand we do not perform embolization procedures as a way to become pregnant there's no data to support that but if you saw your

gynecologist and they said let's do this then I'm sure they'll be doing lots of adjunct things to figure out what would be an ideal time then to for you to have IVF and if I dove not having any data to inform me I would ask you to wait a year

and what will be the effect of those hormones that they gave you if for example a patient has existing fibroids what would be the effect of those hormones that IVF doctors prescribed their patients yeah so fibroids actually

can grow during pregnancy so I would say that most of those hormones are pro fertility hormones so I would expect that maybe you can see some of that effect as well yeah alright if you have any other questions you can grab me oh

you're I'm sorry go with it okay yes we we have time I don't want to keep anybody here for that so I have a two-fold question the first one is post-procedure can you use a diclofenac patch or a 12-hour pain

patch that is a an NSAID have you have any experience with that and your next question my second part of the question is there a patient profile or a psychological profile that tips you that the patient is not going to be able to

candidate because of their issues around pain so they're two separate but we have in success sending people home that first day so I'm looking to just make it better I haven't had experience with the Clos

phonetic patch it's in theory it seems ok you know these are all the these are they're all these are non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs so there are different potency levels for all of them they you know they range from very low

with with naproxen to to a little bit higher with toradol like that clover neck I think is somewhere in between so we found that at least I found that that q6 our our tour at all it tends to help a lot so with that said I I don't have

much experience with it with the patch in answer to your second question the only thing I can say is there there is a strong correlation between size of fibroids and the the amount of a post procedural pain and post embolization

syndrome so there really you know we often say we don't really care too much about the number of fibroids but the size of the fibroid is is is should be you know you should you should look at that on pre procedural imaging because

if it gets too big it may not be worth it for the patient because they may be in severe pain the more embolic you put into the blood supply's applying the the fibroid the the greater the pain post procedural pain

are there multiple other factors that would contribute to pain but that's that's one aspect you can you can look at post procedurally on imaging okay thank you very much yes ma'am hi what what kind of catheter do you use

to catheterize the fibroid artery when you pass by radio access yeah so over the last three years the companies have been really very good about that so there are a few things that I without endorsing one company or the other that

you need to make sure that the sheath that you're using is one of those radial sheets a company that makes a radio sheath you should not use a femoral sheath for radial access so no cheating where that's concern you may get away

with it once or twice but it will catch up to you and you need a catheter that is long enough to go from the radio to the to the groin so I'm looking for like a 120 or 125 centimeter kind of angled catheter whether it's hydrophilic the

whole way or just a hydrophilic tip or not at all you can you can choose which one in our practice most of us still tend to use a micro catheter through that catheter although if I'm using a for French and good glide calf and it

just flips into like a nice big juicy uterine artery then I may just go ahead and take that and do the embolization if the fellow is not scrubbed in as well so thanks a lot but they make they make many different kinds like that and more

of those are to come all right I'm you can please please please send us any other questions that you have thanks for your time and attention and enjoy the rest of the living

okay stent graft deployments once you've ballooned you basically pass the sheath over the balloon all the way down to the portal circulation the reason for that

is the Viator stance has a bare portion that's captured by the sheath so your sheath has to be deep into the portal circulation so when you unsheath it it opens up and then you pull back so it snags on your portal venous entry so

it's a feel thing and a visual at the same time for the operator okay so your sheath has to be deep in the portal circulation so that dilates put your sheath all the way down this is a run just to make it look pretty for you guys

and then you basically deploy the Viator stent via tourists and like I said has a bear portion that's captured by the plastic here and that plastic sheath basically transfers the capture of the bare

portion from plastic to your entry or access sheath okay as a ring to it and put it in has a feel to it that ring has to be right there it's very common for people starting off to deploy it inside the sheath up so it's a kind of a feel

thing to actually make sure that it's actually in there snug with it with the sheath okay then you push the stents all the way into the sheath now the bare portion is captured by the sheath you remove the plastic it's over over and

done with and then you pass pass your your stent all the way down to the portal vein and then unsheath it like a wall stents let it open pull everything back till it snags on the portal venous entry sites and then unsheathed the rest

of it which is the covered portion and that stays constrained by the cord and then you pull then you pull the cord keep key portion here is this is the ideal tips and ideal ace tips is a tips from the portal vein bifurcation to the

a patek vein IVC junction okay that's an ace tips it's usually a straight tips it's the straightest tips you'll see it runs parallel to the caiva okay rookies will be doing tips down out in the

periphery and Deliver okay they'll be fishing for small portal veins out of his small hepatic veins and at the end their tips is gonna be like a big seat like a big C loop okay it'll be a longer tips with more stance and it won't be an

aggressive decompressive tips okay but an ace tips is a more aggressive central tips straights it comes from the portal vein bifurcation to the paddock vein IVC Junction that's kind of like an ace tips

okay unsheath it and then and you and then you pull the cord to basically deploy it and this is kind of a reenactments the Styrofoam cup is the portal vein the sheath is in there now over the wire there's no wire in the in

the reenactments and then you unsheath the bear portion so it opens up okay and then you pull everything back till it catches on the portal vein okay you move the sheath all the way back and

then you pull the cord you see the cord right there you pull the cord and it basically opens up the covered portion okay and it opens up from the portal venous end so it actually capped catches it right away catches that portal venous

entry sites there's no slippage and so basically rips open tip to hub okay and that's kind of your final product and then you go in and and then you go in and balloon okay so here it is ballooning put the sheath

over the balloon sheath is deep into the portal circulation you put the tips in your unsheath to cut the the the bare portion let it flower open you pull everything back to like snags you unsheath the rest of the stunt and then

you pull the cord okay and then you dilate with 8 or 10 or whatever so this is visit with the debilitation and that's kind of your final product ideal

sub massive PE is an unknown entity so we still have these patients coming to us how do I approach it today

well those patients that are high-risk sub massive so high risk intermediate just like that ESC slide who look like they're about to Crump or look bad like they have an elevated lactate even if they don't meet the criteria for

hypotension those are patients that I'll almost always try to repr fuse and and that can be reproducing with any technique it could be surgical unbel ectomy it could be systemic thrombosis it could be Katherine directed therapy

but that's where the PERT concept where you bring together multiply multiple disciplines in a relatively short time and and make a consensus life decision that is thought to be the added value of the pert these other ones are getting

less and less common in terms of intervention so I used to intervene on a lot of these patients but as the data has come out and I've noticed that with the tincture of time 24 hours of heparin actually gets these people out of the

danger zone I've actually made my practice a little more conservative than it used to be and low risk sub massive Pease should pretty if if you're frequently doing this it's probably a time to re-examine your practice because

it may not be based on evidence or truth

these are our prospective CDT trials it's a lot to go through them so I'm not going to suffice it to say that the only one of these that is randomized is the

one in the top left the ultimate trial with 59 patients the rest of these are single set are single arm studies the optimized trial was randomized but the key arm it did not have was a control arm so all it did was vary the amount of

drug but there was no control arm to tell us how are people doing if they just get heparin well and I'll show you one result from these trials that is the most important result and that is up from the ultimate trial at 24 hours CDT

catheter to thrombolysis reduces the RV to lv ratio to a greater extent than heparin alone what does that mean so you saw all those pictures with the big dilated right ventricles our surrogate measure for right ventricular

dysfunction is the ratio of the diameter the inner diameter of the right ventricle to the left ventricle what we found in this study was that that ratio got reduced to a greater extent at 24 hours in the CDT arm compared to heparin

alone that means that CDT seems to reduce our V dysfunction faster than heparin now importantly 30 days later the echos looked identical so really it's a question of time which is not surprising what we've noticed in

our practice is that patients feel better faster okay I'm gonna go through the rest of this because I'm out of time but I want to give you a little bit of a sense of where we're going because there's bleeding associated with CDT and

maybe I'll show you this that in the Seattle to trial there was an 11% major bleeding rate now this was a pretty conservative definition but there were some serious bleeds and there were no intracranial

hemorrhages in this study but we have realized that CDT is not risk-free it's not like we've all of a sudden gained all of the advantages of systemic thrombolytics and none of the disadvantages now the rate of

intracranial hemorrhage seems to be about tenfold less but it does happen about 0.2 to 0.4% of the time the rate of major bleeding seems to be about 5% which is about half the rate of major bleeding that we see with system or

thrombosis so bleeding is still there it just doesn't seem to be as frequent so that's where some of these other devices are coming in then our a float Reaver the the the extra penumbra indigo cat 8 device and so the the float Reaver is

has actually gone through the full trial and the results are about to be published what is this thing well it's this pretty big hose which is about 20 French and it goes through the right heart and goes up there and it takes

this clot and literally aspirates it out and these are some of the things that will come out and that's sort of your post picture right there the data showed something similar to what we saw with the catheter directed thrombolysis

trials they had looked at 106 patients are vlv ratio was reduced again there's no comparator arm here so this is just the device on its own with a 3.8 percent adverse event rate and so now we're talking about mechanical devices that

don't use a clot-busting medication therefore you're gonna you can expect less bleeding but you're trading some of that off for a mechanical device that can cause injury to either myocardial structures or to the pulmonary artery so

that's something we have to be highly cognizant of as they're introduced into the market this is the penumbra cat 8 this is from Jim Benenati publication basically showing a couple things that's the separator that is the actual

catheter and that's the sheath back there so you've got poor profusion because of a clot in the inter lobar pulmonary artery and then at the end of it you have better perfusion for lung down there so we actually just completed

enrollment into the extract PE trial 120 sub massive PE patients the same efficacy endpoint you have to remember that has been established by the FDA as a way to get approval this is not the final

study nor should it be the final study when we evaluate these devices so to summarize sub massive PE what does the data not tell us CDT probably reduces the RV to LV ratio at 24 hours that is the main outcome that I want you

guys to remember from the ultimate trial it's associated you didn't see this data so don't worry about that we do see major bleeding and sometimes rarely but sometimes we see intracranial bleeding with CDT as well so what we're missing

from catheter directed thrombosis for sub massive PE is what are the clinical outcomes the RV to LV ratio is a surrogate outcome what about death what about clinical deterioration what about recurrent hospitalization what

about recurrent VTE how are people doing in the long term are they walking as well as they were before we don't know any of this none of the data right so far can tell us any of this information so where do we go from here for sub

no thanks to the avir we really wouldn't be able to do anything that we can without y'all so I take great great pride in sharing things from our perspective said you folks can start contributing your own thoughts your own opinions and your own vision during

these cases I think it's certainly something that I've appreciated since the first day of doing invention where do you all do so having said that we're just a smidge in the behind side so we'll try to focus today is mainly a

survey to stimulate everyone in terms of what's actually happening on the other end of the catheter with respect to the patient why are we doing these things where's our role and I think that's gonna add hopefully some value the next

time you folks step in on one of these cases alright so as you know dr. daughter first was able to visualize the inside of a blood vessel and find a stenosis and a lady who had limb ischemia and then was able to use a

dilator to fix that so obviously that gave birth to interventional radiology so we started taking pictures of tumors just to diagnose tumors back in the day before we had actual imaging and what we found

was well if tumors have a high demand for blood just like anything else what happens if we take away that blood and this is a 1975 image of renal cell carcinoma is to call them hyper and if Roma's back then but basically the

concept of interventional ecology was born the moment you could do something to make the environment for the tumor less hospitable and to try to palliate patients if they weren't subject to the the gold treatment standards like

resection in this case so fast forward to 2016 there was a huge study was International where they looked at over 3 000 patients who have primary liver cancer or her pata cellular carcinoma and what they found was that regardless

of where but if you sum all the treatment decisions that are related to those patients about 70% will see treatment by an interventional radiologist as you know that was a astounding amount

so si are listened to a lot of these types of messages even outside of obviously oncology basically we realize that there's a tremendous responsibility and the best thing to do is to dedicate ourselves fully to that and that's why I

think with IR now is a separate medical specialty we're going to start seeing more of the clinical involvement of this and certainly think the caseloads going to go up so why interventional oncology

so one of my favorite age-old questions is okay so how do you know that I don't have a cancer and I don't know because cancers can exist were there fibroids and we know a few years ago there was a black box warning put out for a more

salacious device which is how most UI ends remove large fibroids and that was due to the fact that if you go it looks like a blender of source like a handheld blender and it just kind of blends up big fibroids so that they can move it

out in chunks but if a fiber but if a fibroid existed in the uterus where there was an indolent cancer and you blend that whole thing up then you've just made everything a little bit blood-borne then something that was not

meant to be an aggressive disease process is now accelerated to an aggressive process and now those patients who had worse outcomes and that's why the device is still having a black box warning and is off the market

but it has really not that much to do with fibroids becoming cancer it's just that they both can exist in the uterus and if you are doing a uterine sparing procedure you could be missing a cancer having an MRI beforehand helps us out

just a little bit and we have discovered many cancers of patients that are asymptomatic in that way and they look kinda like this so when you look at these two and I'm telling you that the person on the left

those dark round things that that's a fibroid then you could probably see the thing on the right and say well that doesn't look quite like the thing on the left one looks like it could be a fibroid one maybe not so much so this is

a patient that came to see me in clinic and she had bulk symptoms she brave though she had bleeding symptoms she decided she was going to have a pair of white pants and she worried that day two clinic

but you can see where and I'm not able to point this out so I'm hoping that you can really do see that where she has her navel which is a dot that little crease on the MRI and then her uterus is above her navel and II and you can see that on

her and when I touched her abdomen I could tell that this was no fibroid at all so we had her image and done on the right hand side and it too looked very abnormal and so she went on to have a hysterectomy this was a cancer again

two other images that really talking about how MRI although it helps us to tell whether the fibers of vascular or not that it can also help us to find other things such as this person that has an endometrial cancer also very

aggressive cancer and they presented the exact same way abnormal bleeding and painful bleeding with clots so blood bulk symptoms with bleeding MRI not so much this is a cancer all right so what do I tell my patients when I see them

and they say dr. Newsome could I have a cancer I tell them what the FDA says the FDA says that there's a one in 350 chance that's what's on their website that you have a cancer and you have a fibroid at the same time but that's

really really high the American College of obstetrics and gynecology actually put out a position statement and revised that and they said that's way too high and they said it was somewhere between one and five hundred and the SI are with

dr. Spees looked at that number and said well we didn't think that it was that high either it's somewhere one in 750 or 800 so sadly I'm into big numbers so I just round it up I tell patients that's like a one in a thousand chance that you

can have a fibroid there and I'm gonna get an MRI and I'm gonna see if there is any chance if anything looks suspicious and the good thing is that I'm gonna keep seeing you for a year in a year after so that if I've missed something

then we're gonna be able to see it I said before that I'm super proud that I'm from Emory I'm from the home of dr. Chandra schnell who I had told to come and help me to give this talk but because I was running behind I hope he

doesn't feel compelled to come but we have put out our criteria and standards of practice for years that helps to inform us this is not something that is oh so new this is something that has level

evidence to support one of the the procedures that we do and this is very unusual for the things that we do in NIR where we have level 1 or level A's evidence that says that and because of the work that the society has done and

no doubt some of the people that are in this room I know for sure Julie was involved because we were doing these when I was in Alexandria the the trials to answer this question the American College of obstetrics and gynecology had

to adopt this as a part of their position statement to say that based on the long and short term outcomes uterine artery embolization is proven to be safe and effective option for appropriate patients in selected women who would

like to retain their uterus and that is still there a position statement today although I'm aware that they're revising it they're revising it because of the

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