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Cervical Root Cysts|Injection Therapy|45|Female
Cervical Root Cysts|Injection Therapy|45|Female
Radiofrequency Ablation (RFA) - How it works | Ablations: Cryo, Microwave, & RFA
Radiofrequency Ablation (RFA) - How it works | Ablations: Cryo, Microwave, & RFA
Nodule in right lung | Cryoablation Case | Ablations: Cryo, Microwave, & RFA
Nodule in right lung | Cryoablation Case | Ablations: Cryo, Microwave, & RFA
ablationablationschaptercryocryoablationfreezehemorrhagelesionlungLung Noduleminutesnodulepneumothoraxprobesprotocolproximalthawtriple
Heat Sink Effect in RFA | Ablations: Cryo, Microwave, & RFA
Heat Sink Effect in RFA | Ablations: Cryo, Microwave, & RFA
Surgical AV Fistula  | Pecutaneous Creation of Hemodialysis Fistulas
Surgical AV Fistula | Pecutaneous Creation of Hemodialysis Fistulas
Overview of Biliary Disease at John's Hopkins | Biliary Intervention
Overview of Biliary Disease at John's Hopkins | Biliary Intervention
Observations working in IR in China | Across the Pond: The state of Interventional Radiology in China
Observations working in IR in China | Across the Pond: The state of Interventional Radiology in China
Keys to Good Outcomes in Ischemic Stroke | Neuro-Interventions
Keys to Good Outcomes in Ischemic Stroke | Neuro-Interventions
abnormalaspectsbloodbraincenterscerebralchaptercollateralscolorcontraindicationguidelinesheadhypoglycemicimagingintervenelumpectomymapsMRIocclusionpediatricPenumbraperfusionscalestrokestroke scalethrombectomyworkflow
Cryoablation - What it is and how it works | Ablations: Cryo, Microwave, & RFA
Cryoablation - What it is and how it works | Ablations: Cryo, Microwave, & RFA
Questions and Answers | Across the Pond: The state of Interventional Radiology in China
RFA Probe types | Ablations: Cryo, Microwave, & RFA
RFA Probe types | Ablations: Cryo, Microwave, & RFA
ablationaugmentationbipolarchapterimpedanceincreasesinfuselevineMedtronicosteoOsteoCool RF Ablation Systemprobeprobessalinetemperaturetines
Kidney lesion | Cryoablation Case | Ablations: Cryo, Microwave, & RFA
Kidney lesion | Cryoablation Case | Ablations: Cryo, Microwave, & RFA
ablationballchaptercollectingcryoablationkidneylesionLesion in left kidneymedialstricturessystemtumorureter
Why is Staging Important | Interventional Oncology
Why is Staging Important | Interventional Oncology
CT Angiography | Determining the Endpoints of CLI Interventions
CT Angiography | Determining the Endpoints of CLI Interventions
Introduction - Percutaneous Fistula Creation | Pecutaneous Creation of Hemodialysis Fistulas
Introduction - Percutaneous Fistula Creation | Pecutaneous Creation of Hemodialysis Fistulas
RFA Advantages and Disadvantages | Ablations: Cryo, Microwave, & RFA
RFA Advantages and Disadvantages | Ablations: Cryo, Microwave, & RFA
Creating a Deep Fistula | Pecutaneous Creation of Hemodialysis Fistulas
Creating a Deep Fistula | Pecutaneous Creation of Hemodialysis Fistulas
Radiofrequency Ablation (RFA) - Where it's used | Ablations: Cryo, Microwave, & RFA
Radiofrequency Ablation (RFA) - Where it's used | Ablations: Cryo, Microwave, & RFA
ablateablationablationsaugmentationBovie knifecementchapterconjunctioncryoknifekyphoplastyMedtronicmetastaticmicrowavemodalityosteopelvis
The Ways to Recanalize the Below the Knee Vessels | AVIR CLI Panel
The Ways to Recanalize the Below the Knee Vessels | AVIR CLI Panel
Muscoskeletal Ablation | Interventional Oncology
Muscoskeletal Ablation | Interventional Oncology
Benefits of UFE | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Benefits of UFE | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Summary of Ablation Modalities - Cost, Time, Risks and Rewards | Ablations: Cryo, Microwave, & RFA
Summary of Ablation Modalities - Cost, Time, Risks and Rewards | Ablations: Cryo, Microwave, & RFA


Another case is a 45-year-old patient with headaches and ability to stand up, dizziness and CNS hypertension. And this is the MRI and you can see the formation of the cysts, and the cyst actually can rupture and by this rupture you get CSF hypertension

so a couple a couple of ground rules first of all I'm a fish out of water I'm not your stereotypical position and I always say that uh that that's how I ended up in New Orleans because you can get lost in New Orleans if you're crazy and I said I didn't get I didn't go to

that course where they inserted this stick in your rectum in medical school so I am not politically correct okay and I don't know if any of you know the Jimmy Valvano story but um you know he got up there in front of everybody and

said I got a hundred and fifty holes in my bone so I want to see a little red light blinking what are you gonna do to me and well I'm similar to that if I'm not politically correct and you're offended I would please leave now

because there's nothing you can do to me because I'm on my way out anyway so it doesn't matter but and it's really funny that I just walked in when Vicki marks was talking and I think I'm a product of the early days of interventional because

we would do cases for eight hours and get eight hours of flora back to back it was that when we learned in tips when we were learning and after you read oral and we just take our badge and throw it and and I swear that that's the reason

why I ended up with myeloma anyway so some of this stuff I'm going to talk about I always like to insert humor so it does so it's not morbid and there are slides sometimes I'm you know being Italian I'm

kind of a wuss I cry at raindrops and and some sometimes I cannot get through the slide because it brings back kind of kind of crummy memories but anyway so I entitled this from the other side of the glass and I actually Photoshop that's me

looking at me getting treated in CT so I

certainly the face of interventional radiology in China is actually a very

good place to be right now you're talking about young physicians that are really getting involved in the field 58% of all Chinese IR physicians are under 40 years of age and status from 2017 you know 40% are under 35 you're talking

about very young doctors who are growing up in the IR you know field and actually you know really building a young base of physicians to carry IR into the next 20 years 41 percent of those physicians also have degrees outside their their

primary medical degree so master's degrees and doctors that's quite high you'll find out here in the US no like I said in China you don't necessarily have a traditional MD you don't you're not an MD actually it's a

bachelor's of Medicine very similar to the European model but a lot of them and majority of them almost have have advanced degrees so you're talking about very intelligent very young very aggressive people trying to carry this

ball and move it forward and try to join the international community of advancing IR and that was very heartwarming for me and made me feel very good to be with those colleagues and realize where the future lies for that kind of tree and

then 72% are bilingual or multilingual which is certainly much better than the u.s. because the Lord knows I can speak anything I can say come by and and Niihau so bottom line is you have very intellectual people that can communicate

very rarely did I have an issue in getting along and communicating with my colleagues in China and in the end we all speak the same universal language which is I are when I'm at a table and I'm scrubbing with those physicians we

didn't have to talk at all okay we knew what we were looking at we knew what needed to be done and we just did it and that's one thing that's always amazing about this field is that we all can speak the same language regardless of

where we come from so my observations

deal with radiofrequency ablation is that you have a probe which acts as the

calf the current you then have the pads which act as the anode and when you place the probe in turn it on essentially there's a very small cross-sectional area and there's high flux of energy so lots of

current and then it spreads out over the patient's body and it grounds itself to the grounding pad in so the way is since she works is you generate this very very large alternating current right so the water molecules want to stay in

conjunction with that that current their dipoles arrangement they have positive and minuses and so they're gonna flip around to stay in alignment with that current and that rapid oscillation of those water molecules causes the the

tissue to heat up the way a cinch it works is by coagulation necrosis what does that mean well it's basically cooking a steak it just dies and and that's your your your death related to coagulation necrosis so with our FA

what's important to know is that the molecules immediately next to the probe are what heat up and then everything from there on out heats sort of by passive conduction and I'll describe how microwave works and that's different to

that but the probe tip never gets hot but the molecules immediately adjacent to the probe get hot and and everything propagates from there on out why is that important well it's important because if you rapidly heat the tissue with RFA

you're gonna get charring but some of you might have experienced this when you do the cases the tissue basically gets charred then it increases the the impedance or the ability to conduct it in which case you you limit your ability

to create an ablation all right so charring is a problem and it increases your impedance which is essentially the resistance to making an ablation cavity and then that decreases the ablation size and so that's really

one of the main reasons why people started moving away from RFA is that you really need tissue that's going to conduct this electrical current well and it's difficult to predict what tissue that's gonna be and so the goal with RFA

as with any other thermal ablation is to get the tissue temperature to between 50 and 100 degrees Celsius and then slow temperature rises are best right so however you want to achieve that slow temperature rise you want to do it

slowly rather than a rapid increase which is the opposite really of microwave ablation radiofrequency

something some case examples of where I use cryoablation right so this is a

patient who has a nodule in the in the back of their lungs in the right lower lobe and basically I'll place two probes into that notch on either side of Brackett the lesion and then three months later fall up you can see a nice

resolution of that nodule so when it comes to lung a couple things I'll mention is if the nodule is greater than eight millimeters I'll immediately go to two probes I want to make sure that I cover the lesion whereas microwave it's

pretty rare depending on what device you're using for you to put more than one probe in so some people's concern with cryo in the lung is more probes means more risk of pneumothorax but you can also see surrounding and proximal to

where we did the place you can see the hemorrhage that you see so if those of you out there that are doing the lung ablations you probably have physicians that are using something called the triple freeze protocol right so the

double freeze protocol is the idea that you go ten minutes freeze five minutes 30 minutes freeze five minutes thought well what we saw was lung early on in the studies was a very large ablation a freeze to start with caused massive

hemorrhage patients were having very large amounts of hemorrhage so what we do now in lung is something called a triple freeze protocol we'll do a very short freeze about three minutes and that'll cause an ice ball to form and

then we'll thaw that in other three minutes three minutes of thawr and as soon as that starts to thaw we'll freeze it again and we've shown us a substantial decrease in the amount of hemorrhage so if you're doing long and

you and you you're told to do a double freeze protocol perhaps suggest the triple freeze is a better idea so that's three months later so another example

ablation also has a little disadvantage than that I don't know if you folks have heard of heat sink but the idea is that

if you put the probe immediately adjacent to a blood vessel that blood vessel is gonna suck the temperature away and so that you cannot oblate around blood vessels particularly well because the blood flow rate since

you just washes it out it's called heat sink effect and this is essentially showing infrared image of of an ablation how if you put a vessel nearby it stops the ablation now that can actually be used as an advantage depending on where

you're doing an ablation but truthfully if you're doing it in the liver and you're next to the portal vein or something like that it becomes a bit of a problem and any blood vessel greater than three millimeters is our concern so

today okay go forward so sorry now when it says is there any commercial bias really there's only two companies that have this device so if I speak about each one clearly there's going to be a

little bit of commercial discussion but as I people always ask me which one do you prefer and I always have to tell them quickly you know I'm not a salesman for either company as a matter of fact I'm more

like a test pilot and we're still in the very early stages of this and which device may be better however you wanted to find that or easier to use or what the data is going to show we don't really know yet so but we're fortunate

that we have access to both devices for our patients a couple of things we know and dialysis patients start 80% start with catheters bad okay and catheters bad if you get anything out of this lecture catheters bad about 28 to 53

percent failure to mature means they have a fistula it's physiologically working but it never matures to be able to use for hemodialysis time to maturation three to four months

interventions per year required angioplasty you know embolization you guys know all about this stuff trying to read Evert flow back into the main channel of the fishhook and patients about 30 up to 30

percent just refused once they have our fish to them for whatever reason they refused to have it cannulated you know they don't like the pain it's in an awkward position whatever but the idea of percutaneous

which was may actually put a big dent in that Kathy first-line initiating dialysis with catheters because many times these patients come then they need to houses right away they get a catheter but if we know you know these things

usually except you know for toxic injury like ingesting antifreeze and stuff like that most you know frolla just know these patients are headed towards dialysis well in advance of the time they need it and so these calls stage

four and stage renal disease these patients can get percutaneous fistulas and when it's time then they'll have a running blood access ready and totally avoid the need to have a catheter placed

good afternoon thank you so much for invitation to speak to you I have a privilege of working at Johns Hopkins and we have a fairly large practice we at the main hospital itself we have 11 rooms and during a day about two of them are have a biliary case actually going

on at the same time so it's actually a fairly large volume of our practice and so the gamut of bluie intervention goes from really simple stuff to really complex and it is something that our trainees specifically will come to

Hopkins for and many of times they will end up being the blurry and experts as soon as they arrive at a new practice so certainly it's something that we deal with every day I just wanted to give you a landscape overview and share some good

cases that we've done and hopefully you may something have some comments or learn something about the way we do it but I'm pretty sure throughout the country a lot of great Billu work has been done currently there's no question

though the Blooey access and access to the Blooey system has really been played out in most hospitals perth by GI and ir and obviously surgery but almost a lesser so today and the rat in at least four IR is the PTC PPD or transparent

Col angiogram but it's actually a recurring role and I actually speak and have a sort of special interest in transit paddock colonoscopy as well so we play scopes through the skin through the liver and do a lot of balloon

intervention I'll show you a few cases like that but in true these access points are germane to what specialty you come from and obviously endoscopic beeper oral and if you eye are usually usually through the skin and there's no

question GI now in some hospitals I'm sure you have advanced endoscopy that will go through the stomach straight into the leftover liver so there's no question of a blurry landscape is changing quickly but no question that

this is quite common but yet most patients and internal medicine specialties will be looking at blurry disease by access point through scopes through ercp so going back from the Duden up or directly through in there's

advantages disadvantages something it's fairly obvious to everybody that you know no question is selling it to a patient if it had both choices that ERCP through the mouth and nothing invasive nothing sticking out their body

is attractive yet the outcomes are very similar but nonetheless there's pros and cons and through the trance of had a crap or two percutaneous route you do definitely have tubes at least sticking out

initially and this is often solved by GI as the main differentiator at least a discomfort but yet we are able to address almost every problem at times and often where'd they pay a lot there's

and these are just my personal observations I'm gonna make this quick because you got a great presenter following me and I don't want to push off dr. rustling too much longer but

compassion and smile are universal I didn't need to speak Mandarin to be able to understand what was going on and certainly when I'm at that scrub table and I'm performing procedures on patients we all could smile and laugh

and figure out what was going on very quickly without too much into discussion and so that's the one thing I would always say when you go smiles contagious wherever you are in this world everyone likes to smile

second thing is everything is your usable what you think it should be or not doesn't matter you can reuse it I found that one out betadine is amazing everything is reusable overseas you'll figure that one out quickly informed

healthcare is at a higher level in China and what I mean by that is when you have to have your patient pay for a $2000 stent yeah informed healthcare is amazing because you're gonna pull the patient's family in and you're gonna

talk to them and they're gonna have to make very important decisions about healthcare which is dependent on what type of finances they have and it's kind of sad unfortunately you know I would hope we

can go into a big long debate about US healthcare and everything else but in the end the sheet you put that Stinton if I need to put that stent in and then we'll worry about the finances later on it's

not that way over in there so that can be very frustrating for a clinician he's trying to do what he feels is best or if she feels is best for their patient and they can't you'll find no better MacGyver's than in china and then in

overseas because they will make it work no it's gonna fit no matter what what size fit you have it doesn't matter we'll make it work so it's it is amazing you will find some macgyvering going over there that's

quite fascinating more tase's and i've ever seen in my life you want to learn interventional oncology and you haven't done a taste procedure go to China for a week you're gonna come back and be an expert whether you want to be or not

that's de-facto and certainly the younger I are physicians strong knowledge base of clinically what's going on and excited to plug into their colleagues overseas they want to know what we're doing here in the US

they want to know what they're doing in Europe they want to know about the latest studies and that's exciting to me as a clinician to be able to share that and see that that future there is a strong and bright future for

interventional radiology and when

good outcomes now the stroke care is a total team approach I mean everyone's working together different Doc's ER

neurology whoever's doing the intervention you know the EMTs are involved I mean they're the ones who first assess the stroke and they call the hospital and say I think we have a large vessel

occlusion and so things are already getting ramped up in radiology ICU texts and nurses all that stuff we're working together to get these patients on the table and intervened and then all the post stroke management too so it's

always been shown to I mean everyone is looking at times it's almost like a STEMI where everything is recorded and especially for neuro and Stroke lumpectomy hospitals in order to maintain their certification need to

record everything so as long as you're involved early in the workflow things are helping and we're still trying to make make our times better even just a couple minutes shaved off here and there it can help now

there's guidelines out there this thing is 255 pages and who wants to read 255 pages and it's pretty long but their guidelines and just to kind of review some things that no one really even follows the guidelines now I mean there

has been strokes in pediatric patients that people will intervene on all these different words NIH SS that's a stroke scale assessment aspects is there's different things that I'm going to show you all of these things are guidelines

so now no one even really follows these numbers I mean they're a good way to start but you can really change your management again on that perfusion so probably perfusion is one of the most important aspects and you know a lot of

things can mimic stroke he actually had a whole stroke activation for a patient one time at my hospital and we did the whole CT and everything everything looked fine and then it was found that the blood glucose was 34 I mean so

there's these things a patient looked like he was having a stroke but he was just hypoglycemic so a lot of times you have have things like that now even your INR are your platelets being below you can still

intervene and and pretty much nothing stops they have renal failure it doesn't matter you just it's then they start talking about neurons over nephrons and so they just put a really high priority on getting the thrombectomy because it

is life changing and imaging is so important so they you know I'll stress again and again this is what perfusion has really changed you know your selection for a stroke candidate and we use CT most centers use CT you can do

MRI - but MRI you know slower and not always available and so most people will just do what they call it triple scan which is a non-contrast CT head and that's to see if you have any blood that's one of the things that will

probably be a contraindication to stroke thrombectomy and then the CT a head and perfusion so you always see the docs like looking at these color maps they look nice but they're really important so these are

the color maps I mean I think anyone can see that there's all this red on that side of the brain and that's the red that's what we call penumbra and so what we are always looking at so CBF is cerebral blood flow MTTs mean transit

time just means how much time does it take for blood to get there so the longer it is the red and that's that's why that value is abnormal and then cerebral blood volume so when the volume is in tact that means your collaterals

are giving enough flow to that area so that's showing that this the CVV map is normal and MTT is abnormal so all that brain is at risk so potentially if you can take out that clot you'll save that entire side of the brain and that's

where this perfusion imaging comes about and you know we use all these numbers aspects mr-s Stroke Scale and you don't have to know them per se but just to know that the higher the number is usually worst except for aspect so

always ask you what's the abscess score and that just tells you on a very you know primitive way on a non-contrast CT what brain is at risk and now you know whenever I get called about a stroke these are the the questions that

go through my head you know when did this when did the symptoms start what's the stroke scale you know but even though all these questions that are in my head all I'm really caring about is a profusion map and it's not that's

really gonna guide me to what what goes where and so you know what part of the

to talk about cryoablation which is very commonly used in a number of organs it can essentially be used anywhere in my opinion with cryoablation as many of you know the different idea is that you have a probe and it creates this ice ball and

that's what's killing the tissues rather than heating the tissue when they first came out with cryoablation they had these really large probes and that really limited what we could do well with technology obviously those probe

size decreased and we were able to do better ablations and safer oblations in patients so it really took off at that point and the general goal once again is to decrease the temperature to about minus 20 degrees Celsius and in doing so

you kill the tissue and we'll talk about the mechanism of how that works the cold spreads Bible directly molecular transfer right so you're starting to cool around the probe and that will propagate to the surrounding tissue

unlike our FA or microwave as the ice ball grows it doesn't impede further ice ball growth right you can continue to build on that ice ball as you increase the amount of argon infused in the increase the number of probes so that's

beneficial and that you can get a massive ablation depending on how many probes you want to place well talk a little bit of how it works so it works by what's called the joule-thompson effect idea here is if any of you've

done cry before you know you have to drag those huge tanks into the room and it just runs through all gone like nothing so when we first started doing cryoablation you had to have an all gone tank and a helium tank they've gone away

with the helium and now you really just need the argon tank which is really nice and that you don't have to drag those tanks around and they're working on actually doing with nitrogen but that hasn't come to fruition yet so the idea

is that you take a high-pressure gas right so it's in the tank it's pressurized it gets run through the center of the probe and then as it comes out the tip will not out the tip of the probe and within

the tip of the probe it goes to low pressure and that change in pressure allows the temperature of the probe tip to cool right and so if you're using argon or oxygen or nitrogen that'll cool if you're using helium it'll actually

heat the tissues and so that's why we used to have argon and helium to be able to to freeze and then actively Thor so as I mentioned the argon comes from a pressurized tank you have this dual chamber probe that allows the gas to

expand and as it expanded pools heat from the surrounding tissues so as many

any questions at all so it's very diversified you know most physicians as I stated they don't have a residency I

out you know our fellowship so technologists are in most cases more integrated than cases than you would think here in the US you know a lot of fellowship and residency programs as you know when you have a resident fellow

there their Co scrubbing or they're doing the primary case by themselves whereas they're because you don't have that type of formalized residency structure the interventional technologies is doing all the case

within a physician and that's one of those things that one of the initiatives I'm working on is giving some I are technologists over to help train some of these guys show them how we do it here in the US share and kind of give back

and forth information something that's desperately you need to over in China any other questions thank you guys very much you guys made it through congratulations

we're going probes I think many of you have used our FA there's all sorts of different probes right so the most common well one of the most common ones is a probe like a Levine probe and what it does essentially is it increases the

number of tines so you put the probe in and you deploy these tines and it increases your ablation size a lot of companies went towards just a single probe and they infuse saline through the probe which will then decrease the rate

at which the temperature increases so that you get a consistent slow increase in temperature to prevent impedance other probes will actually infuse saline into the tissues so that it propagates the ablation better and then finally

there's by polar probes where you put two probes in next to one another and the the ablation occurs just between the two probes and so that's a very controlled ablation that's the most commonly what you see when you do the

spine augmentation procedures with the osteo cool system or whatever system you're using that's the bipolar probe approach so as I mentioned the

you know Global Opportunities I'm

encouraging you guys to get involved as I are colleagues technologists mid-levels physicians they want you over there and there's many different initiatives sio has a fantastic initiative which focuses on China and

Latin America some of the kos here have had the ability to travel of China and learn you know you're bringing stuff to the table they're to China and they're sharing their knowledge and information with you and knowledge exchange is key

and crucial to advancing interventional radiology now and in the future and then certainly as technologists there's great opportunities rad eight who's quite right outside I just saw them that's a great organization you're gonna get an

opportunity to go to learn to travel a place like Tanzania go to Africa and you got to see my colleague for Carol ma zouri who's a good friend and a mentor talk a little bit about what it's like to be able to perform procedures over

there reach out do something for yourself okay cuz not only when you travel you enrich yourself but you enrich the world around you and in the end that's what I'm gonna leave you with get out learn grow meet

your colleagues overseas have a laugh drink some mal Thai say goodbye thank you very much

here we have a MRI that shows a lesion in the left kidney sorry I don't have a

pointer here really but you can see the lesion in the medial part of the left kidney there couple probes are placed under CT guidance you can already see the beginning of the formation of an ice ball there this is the second probe you

can see the ice ball forming and there's a good example of the ice ball it's got good coverage of the the lesion as well as a good margin around that cryoablation tends to be less detrimental to the collecting system of

the kidney so some of the concerns when you do renal ablation is that you're gonna cause your read or strictures or urine leaks because you're burning the collecting system essentially with cryoablation you tend not to see that

you don't have to use something called pilar profusion is often right the idea with pilo profusion is you put a small catheter into the ureter and you infuse the kidney with cold saline so that the collecting system stays cold while you

while you burn the tumor well you don't often times have to do that with cryoablation so that's one benefit of it and then this is a one month later scan this is the normal appearance you can see the ablation zone that and the

resolution of the tumor will follow these up for a few years to make sure that all that tissue goes away and this

so why staging important well when you go to treat someone if I tell you I have a lollipop shaped tumor and you make a lollipop shape ablation zone over it you have to make sure that it's actually a lollipop shaped to begin with so here's

a patient I was asked to ablate at the bottom corner we had a CT scan that showed pretty nice to confined lesion looked a little regular so we got an MRI the MRI shows that white signal that's around there then hyperintensity that's

abnormal and so when we did an angiogram you can see that this is an infiltrate of hepatocellular carcinoma so had I done an ablation right over that center-of-mass consistent with what we saw on the CT it

wouldn't be an ablation failure the blasian was doing its job we just wouldn't have applied it to where the tumor actually was so let's talk about

for it's very it at centers where CTA protocols are very good it's basically equivalent to a angiography has been shown in multiple papers to be so newer studies show that

CTA and Emory are equivalent so I don't know it depends on your institution there are a lot of places that still practice with the MRA is kind of the gold standard but CTA is just so much more available that CTA is becoming kind

of the new gold standard for for quick vascular assessment often like to use it to help us plan our intervention so if we don't know what's going on above the level of the groin CTA could be helpful to see whether or

not we could even go from right to left how calcified the vessels are or whether or not there's concomitant aneurysms things that we don't like to discover at the time of the procedure because we might not have the equipment we need to

treat it one of the strengths is that it's quick and that it's cheap but of course it uses contrast and just like you know we like to minimize the amount of contrast that we're using at knee and rogram this can use anywhere from 75 to

150 cc's of contrast or not a small amount and if you're gonna do an intervention the same or the next day that's a lot of dough that's a lot iodine in a couple days these are examples of what we can see at the time

of the procedure there's a 3d reconstruction and a BU these are kerf planer reformatted images what basically they draw a line down the image and you can lay the entire vessel out even if it's very squiggly and then this isn't

this an angiogram and that same patient you can see that they correlate exactly another example a patient with aortic calcification you can see that it can be potentially challenging this patient with diabetes to determine whether or

not these vessels in below the level of the knee are paetynn or not because I can tell you that the one that's closest to the small bone there is actually occluded it's just all calcified you can't really tell what's going on and

the one that's behind that is actually Payton so it could be difficult to tell whether it's calcium or contrast that you're seeing this is where MRA can be

- [Presenter] Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and ladies and gentlemen, and Frank Veith for this opportunity. Before I start my talk, actually, I can better sit down, because Hans and I worked together. We studied in the same city, we finished our medical study there, we also specialized in surgery

in the same city, we worked together at the same University Hospital, so what should I tell you? Anyway, the question is sac enlargement always benign has been answered. Can we always detect an endoleak, that is nice. No, because there are those hidden type II's,

but as Hans mentioned, there's also a I a and b, position dependent, possible. Hidden type III, fabric porosity, combination of the above. Detection, ladies and gentlemen, is limited by the tools we have, and CTA, even in the delayed phase

and Duplex-scan with contrast might not always be good enough to detect these lesions, these endoleaks. This looks like a nice paper, and what we tried to do is to use contrast-enhanced agents in combination with MRI. And here you see the pictures. And on the top you see the CTA, with contrast,

and also in the delayed phase. And below, you see this weak albumin contrast agent in an MRI and shows clearly where the leak is present. So without this tool, we were never able to detect an endoleak with the usual agents. So, at this moment, we don't know always whether contrast

in the Aneurysm Sac is only due to a type II. I think this is an important message that Hans pushed upon it. Detection is limited by the tools we have, but the choice and the success of the treatment is dependent on the kind of endoleak, let that be clear.

So this paper has been mentioned and is using not these advanced tools. It is only using very simple methods, so are they really detecting type II endoleaks, all of them. No, of course not, because it's not the golden standard. So, nevertheless, it has been published in the JVS,

it's totally worthless, from a scientific point of view. Skip it, don't read it. The clinical revelance of the type II endoleak. It's low pressure, Hans pointed it out. It works, also in ruptured aneurysms, but you have to be sure that the type II is the only cause

of Aneurysm Sac Expansion. So, is unlimited Sac Expansion harmless. I agree with Hans that it is not directly life threatening, but it ultimately can lead to dislodgement and widening of the neck and this will lead to an increasing risk for morbidity and even mortality.

So, the treatment of persistent type II in combination with Sac Expansion, and we will hear more about this during the rest of the session, is Selective Coil-Embolisation being preferred for a durable solution. I'm not so much a fan of filling the Sac, because as was shown by Stephan Haulan, we live below the dikes

and if we fill below the dikes behind the dikes, it's not the solution to prevent rupture, you have to put something in front of the dike, a Coil-Embolisation. So classic catheterisation of the SMA or Hypogastric, Trans Caval approach is now also popular,

and access from the distal stent-graft landing zone is our current favorite situation. Shows you quickly a movie where we go between the two stent-grafts in the iliacs, enter the Sac, and do the coiling. So, prevention of the type II during EVAR

might be a next step. Coil embolisation during EVAR has been shown, has been published. EVAS, is a lot of talks about this during this Veith meeting and the follow-up will tell us what is best. In conclusions, the approach to sac enlargement

without evident endoleak. I think unlimited Sac expansion is not harmless, even quality of life is involved. What should your patient do with an 11-centimeter bilp in his belly. Meticulous investigation of the cause of the Aneurysm Sac

Expansion is mandatory to achieve a, between quote, durable treatment, because follow-up is crucial to make that final conclusion. And unfortunately, after treatment, surveillance remains necessary in 2017, at least. And this is Hans Brinker, who put his finger in the dike,

to save our country from a type II endoleak, and I thank you for your attention.

good morning thank you all for braving 8:00 a.m. and I'm sure you were in bed last night early about 8:30 and really enjoyed getting up for this lecture but here it is so this seems to be one of the you know there's a couple of buzzes around the meeting this year pardon my

voice I wish I was up to like what I wasn't and one of the buzzes percutaneous fistulas and then there's this extreme IR then there's this 3d virtual reality stuff is going around so in Orangeburg ER we're fortunate enough

to be very much involved with both of the newly approved fda devices what she also didn't mention was I was a technologist for eight years before I went to medical school so I kind of know where you're coming from that's why I

really enjoy not speaking to you if it's not for you guys and what you make us look good and I believe me so here's my disclosures someone said you should do well on these I said one I'm looking for more if anyone else is out there knows

any studies or anything they want me to do I'm happy to do them so I'm always looking for more disclosures after they office Access Institute in Orangeburg a little sleepy town about three-quarters of the way up from

Charleston towards Columbia John Ross built this amazing facility we are separate from the hospital you can see the hospital a little bit in the back a little bit in the back there but we're totally separate unit if you're

not familiar with us you've got six operating rooms totally dedicated to dialysis access know nothing else goes on there pardon me there's the clinical area waiting the preoperative and

post-operative a holding area there in the room for about 20 patients we do anywhere from 20 20 to 40 45 patients a day all things peritoneal hemodialysis access creation d clots angioplasty and percutaneous I think that was off the

first case for hemodialysis porcinis access and you see Jeff hole there the one of the developers of the ellipsis device I'm sort of just under the light and the caption is usually how many physicians does it take to put in a

percutaneous access a lot of them on the right this is a totally ultrasound mediated placement and then you can see that's what you get when you connect the artery in the vein you get that very beautiful color flow Doppler of a

perforating thing into a radial artery we'll talk about that now being down south I have had to get I've learned to get used to a chicken and biscuits for breakfast which I've never had to deal with before but it's all been quite

nicely folks been very nice to us so a little trip down memory lane and if you recognize this this is one of the first external officials for hemodialysis you know shrimper shunt and that was followed by of course many fistula sites

there you can see on the Left fistula sites up the radial radial ulnar element and radial cephalic rather of course called the breccia semitic fistula and should go up higher I want you to call your attention to right by the elbow

that area is where the site of percutaneous fistulas today are mostly created and these are deep fish to this and we'll get into what that means in just a moment and of course grafts there on the right

but it's a little bit out of the topic

advantages of radiofrequency ablation or that there's the most research on this

right so if you look up ablation research there's a whole lot of data and research on this as it's been the longest studied so that's always beneficial when you're trying to convince people that they should get an

ablation it's cheap right although some of the problem with that is a lot of manufacturers aren't making some of the devices anymore so to get replacement probes and that sort thing is difficult but it is certainly much cheaper than

the other modalities its gentler than microwave right so it's a slower increase in temperature and you can control it the disadvantages as we mention right so the ablation zone this is probably the worst part about

radiofrequency ablation is that the ablation zone is unpredictable right now we're trying to go towards this idea where we can predict the exact size of the ablation and really with RFA it was more experience related right so if

someone I've been doing them for 20 they can have a good idea how it's gonna it's gonna blade but that ablation zone is very unpredictable it's very tissue dependent right so if you have cirrhosis and the liver is

really scarred down you're gonna get a different ablation as to someone who has a normal appearing liver you have the heatsink effect which as I mentioned can be used as an advantage but usually as a disadvantage and then large large burns

are difficult right so anything greater than 4 centimeters even that is difficult to achieve with RFA it is possible to get skin burns at the grounding pad so if you're gonna do RFA make sure that the patient doesn't have

a hip prosthesis for instance and make sure you know it sometimes patients get sweat underneath the the pads and that can increase skin burns and those pads so that's one of another downside of a radiofrequency ablation so we'll move on

and what's available the ellipsis device

which is a startup company still hasn't been bought by anyone it was developed by an interventional radiologist named Jeff hall if you know Jeff from Richmond Virginia and it's a totally ultrasound mediated placement it only requires one

puncture into a cephalic or a perforating vein and then you go from the vein into the artery and I'll talk about that in a moment then the everline the queue device now cold wave link wave linq device i was formerly a TV a

medical developed here in Austin Texas and recently bought by bard BD both devices were FDA approved over the summer and now this goes back the whole idea of what are we doing here what we're creating what we call a deep

fistula so and that was done in response to failing forearm fistulas the radius of Halleck fissures when they started to fail people would then jump to the upper arm and start creating brachial basilic

transposed basilic vanes already oh so phallic brachial cephalic fistulas in the upper arm and then here a guy by the name of Ken grass in Illinois it's called the grass fistula I think I'm saying that right developed a fish to

where he would hook the deep veins at the forearm to the brachial artery flow would then go from the brachial artery across the fistula up what's known as a perforating vein and that perforating vein selectively would go well

selectively perhaps unselect if we go to either the basilic or the cephalic or perhaps even both and here's a nice anatomic description I don't sorry I do not have a pointer I don't even have a keyboard but if you look there we'll

start up at 11 o'clock you can see there B and C basilic vein cephalic vein or labeled you see that P going straight down from the middle of the clock down to six o'clock that's the perforator okay we all know about perforators in

the legs if you do varicose veins because they're incompetent perforated up until six months ago I never even knew there was a perforating vein there one number two I defy anyone to try to find it in an anatomy book because it

just you know it doesn't I'll show you one picture of it but it's not exactly descriptive of what it does then basically they would take that and cut the perforating vein off of the deep venous system and attach it to the

brachial arteries you can see down there four o'clock so now you have flow from the brachial artery across the perforator and up into the superficial venous system and supplying the lead basilican the cephalic veins

kind of kind of a great idea and in fact they looked at these and they compared upper arm fistula swen maintenance of dialysis with deep fistulas and the the time to use of maturation was about the same about four months there was no

significant difference in outcome among the three types of fistulas brachial cephalic transposed rinky basilic and in fact since we have flow through both both of those veins you know it's may be

tempting to speculate that you can now use both of those things actually for hemodialysis and that's currently done many times two needles one needle and ability and the break in the basilic keeps me breaking

one needle in the basilic one needle in the cephalic and then you can alternate those needles so you don't have the problems of vein injury by frequent cannulation at the same spot well here's the one anatomic picture I ever found

with the perforating vein this is from the sobota Atlas which medical students know very well and you can see right in the middle there it says perforating vein and it's ducking down there below the fashion who knows where the hell

it's going but you don't know it from here and here you can see on ultrasound this is pretty much you know what it looks like that's the perforating vein and I guarantee whew go back and grab your ultrasound machine in your

departments and you all have to do is put it on color when you follow the basilic vein down or the and they'll meet the cephalic vein kind of a V and then just below that you'll see your perforator diving deep towards the

brachial artery alright and so now you'll all know where the action is going on and the you know since I think this procedure really is ideal for interventional radiologists I mean it really leverages everything that we do

you know ultrasound fluoroscopy multiple oblique angulations complex angulation is to position the device correctly I mean this procedure is really made for us so I suspect that some of your your attendings may want to begin a program

like this and if you cover the ORS and you're dealing with vascular surgeons or interventional nephrologist I'm sure they will probably want to get involved and so you know get ready guys here it comes so here is a obviously an

illustration of the the forum you can see there's the brachial artery going down take particular attention to the median nerve you can see this with ultrasound it's a very hyper echoic focal structure but when you're

puncturing that brachial artery load down at the elbow you want to make sure that they see the Brig a break heel and pardon me the median nerve because you can injure it if you put a five or six French sheet through it and that's one

of the potential complications of this procedure but as a radiologist we know ultrasound we can see it and we just have to do a complex needle I'm sure you know angling the ultrasound probe around it so he can get them to

the brachial artery then if you follow the cephalic Emily basilic vein down you can see they meet in the center median cubital vein and then the antecubital median antebrachial vein and then but they don't really show here is the

perforator but the point I wanted you to make it and to make you is them the median nerve is right in your target very often you don't want to tangle it now there's a lot of variation in the cue you know and whenever you get down

to anatomic structures this small which when you're doing these procedures you want to be aware of you can see that some people if you look all the way to the right type for there's no perforating vein and these people are

deemed to be anatomically unsuitable for this type of procedure you have to have a good quality and we'll talk about size usually about two two and a half millimeters perforating vein to get that blood from the brachial or radial or own

or artery up into the superficial system to a point where the fish so it can be cannulated but the anatomy here is variable and so you have to be aware that if you don't see it it just may not be there may just be you know a variant

tip Jennings down in Texas now the only person who knew about perforating veins was Bart - Oh max I talked to him the other day goes yeah I knew it because tip Jennings was doing all these deep fistulas down in Texas when he was down

there but tip is kind of when one of the proponents of deep fist shows why because when the proximal or the the distal radius of how a fistula fails the deep fistula can be made and still you don't have to tangle with the

superficial cephalic or basilic vein and also the deep fish avoids steel people don't steal blood when they have a deep fish to them and just because the the the size two or three millimeters of the perforator I think chronic keeps a check

on the blood flow that actually goes through trying to snip up the action

about RF a is that it was the first

ablation that we came up with all those that used it was first used in 1981 and it was really for the first liver ablation that we did RFA if any of you know about a Bovie knife the idea is the same the modality works the same as a

Bovie knife and still the main modality used in many parts of the world in the United States a lot of people will use it in certain areas but it's it's being slowly replaced by microwave ablation with time so as I mentioned some areas

are still using a fair amount of RF aimost or not I can honestly say that I haven't used much RF a at all I was sort of born into the generation of cryo and microwave places where we do use it or very commonly our Nerada meas for pain

control as well as spine ablations if any of you do the osteo cool system with Medtronic will do kyphoplasty in conjunction with an ablation that would be RFA and then Bowden oblations in conjunction with cement organizations

elsewhere right so in the pelvis if there's metastatic disease to the pelvis and you're going to ablate the lesion and then to cement augmentation the I

they travel together so that's what leads to the increased pain and sensitivity so in the knee there have been studies like 2015 we published that study on 13 patients with 24 month follow-up for knee embolization for

bleeding which you may have seen very commonly in your institution but dr. Okun Oh in 2015 published that article on the bottom left 14 patients where he did embolization in the knee for people with arthritis he actually used an

antibiotic not imposing EMBO sphere and any other particle he did use embolus for in a couple patients sorry EMBO zine in a couple of patients but mainly used in antibiotic so many of you know if antibiotics are like crystalline

substances they're like salt so you can't inject them in arteries that's why I have to go into IVs so they use this in Japan to inject and then dissolve so they go into the artery they dissolve and they're resorbable so they cause a

like a light and Baalak effect and then they go away he found that these patients had a decrease in pain after doing knee embolization subsequently he published a paper on 72 patients 95 needs in which he had an

excellent clinical success clinical success was defined as a greater than 50% reduction in knee pain so they had more than 50% reduction in knee pain in 86 percent of the patients at two years 79 percent of these patients still had

knee pain relief that's very impressive results for a procedure which basically takes in about 45 minutes to an hour so we designed a u.s. clinical study we got an investigational device exemption actually Julie's our clinical research

coordinator for this study and these are the inclusion exclusion criteria we basically excluded patients who have rheumatoid arthritis previous surgery and you had to have moderate or severe pain so greater than 50 means basically

greater than five out of ten on a pain scale we use a pain scale of 0 to 100 because it allows you to delineate pain a little bit better and you had to be refractory to something so you had to fail medications injections

radiofrequency ablation you had to fail some other treatment we followed these patients for six months and we got x-rays and MRIs before and then we got MRIs at one month to assess for if there was any non-target embolization likes a

bone infarct after this procedure these are the clinical scales we use to assess they're not really so important as much as it is we're trying to track pain and we're trying to check disability so one is the VA s or visual analog score and

on right is the Womack scale so patients fill this out and you can assess how disabled they are from their knee pain it assesses their function their stiffness and their pain it's a little

bit limiting because of course most patients have bilateral knee pain so we try and assess someone's function and you've improved one knee sometimes them walking up a flight of stairs may not improve significantly but their pain may

improve significantly in that knee when we did our patients these were the baseline demographics and our patients the average age was 65 and you see here the average BMI in our patients is 35 so this is on board or class 1 class 2

obesity if you look at the Japanese study the BMI in that patient that doctor okano had published the average BMI and their patient population was 25 so it gives you a big difference in the patient population we're treating and

that may impact their results how do we actually do the procedure so we palpate the knee and we feel for where the pain is so that's why we have these blue circles on there so we basically palpate the knee and figure

out is the pain medial lateral superior inferior and then we target those two Nicollet arteries and as depicted on this image there are basically 6 to Nicollet arteries that we look for 3 on the medial side 3 on the lateral side

once we know where they have pain we only go there so we're not going to treat the whole knee so people come in and say my whole knee hurts they're not really going to be a good candidate for this procedure you want focal synovitis

or inflammation which is what we're looking for and most people have medial and Lee pain but there are a small subset of patients of lateral pain so this is an example patient from our study says patient had an MRI beforehand

so the idea with cryoablation as I mentioned you create ice crystals in this the tissues outside the cells and then the water rushes out of the cell the ice forms then within the cell and when you thaw the water rushes back in

and this is essentially this whole shift of fluid from one to the other it causes the cell to die but the cell doesn't die like it does with microwave it going to go something called apoptosis which essentially means the

cell decides it wants to die right so it dissolves all of its membranes and whatever else the proteins are then left available for your immune system to help clean things up and that's for the immuno genic response that we talked

about earlier other things you worry

what I was alluding to before no procedures a slam dunk a breeze a piece of cake or a snap you know you you can't you can't take for granted what you're

doing even though like like oh it's just another g-tube oh it's just another line I'm I'm chairman of the department I'm the chief of her interventional and I do I do the lines because widely in the audience no well one of you want to be

people Wylie I had him put my line in and he's because he was the best two days later it got infected so no no it happens you know it just happens you can't take all this stuff for granted my oncologist sister had dialysis and they

were removing a Quinton and she got an air embolus and died of 32 it was it's like you can't take this stuff for granted every procedure you think it's just a routine procedure but it's to a patient who it's their lifeline or it's

their it's it's the most important thing to them so you can't take any procedure lightly because any procedure can go wrong and then side-effects if sometimes it's not the tumor that gets you it's the it's the it's the side effects like

the massive PE that I had was from one of the drugs I was on so you have to at least alert the patient that they may have side effects and and here's another one of my things to make you laugh but I had my bone marrow transplant

and I thought my side effect was that my flatus didn't smell anymore and I was informed by the people in the room that it wasn't the flatus it was my nose that didn't smell anymore but I got to do all the UM I got I get to do all

the abscesses now because I have I lost my sense of smell right in fact this was an appendiceal abscess and it really everybody left the room but me because I was the only one who couldn't smell it and I got out there and we do in CT and

I asked the tech I said what the hell does the appendix do anyway and she said oh it hangs there and does nothing I said well after my bone marrow biopsy I have two of those now so waiting for

interventional research once again China because prior to the 1950s obviously with the Communist revolution and the socialist revolution there it was a kind

of very closed off country but in the past ten years of research true interventional radiology research has increased tenfold because of the opening of domestic borders because of the more internationalization

of China they actually started submitting things into international journals started looking at their IRB processes and I think we will see even more so you're gonna see more and more complex research coming out of China

they've applied more stringent application of IRB standards which has allowed their research to be more acceptable outside of China and the one thing that makes it hard for China to actually produce a high volume of

research is that they get no government funding there's no NIH to be able to provide specific standard funding and there's no medical device company to do funding as well so it's basically academic Hospital making a decision to

do a study and paying for the study that's the one limitation they do have specifically for interventional radiology and producing more relevant and pertinent to academic studies so

ablating things in the bones well musculoskeletal blasian we're fortunate within our practice that we have a doctor councilman Rochester who's

a probably one of the biggest world's experts on this and these are his cases that he shared but you can see when you have small little lesions and bones that are painful you can place probes in them and you freeze them the tumor dies and

musculoskeletal things remain intact what about when you have cases like this where there's a fracture going through the iliac bone on the left with an infiltrate of malignancy well you can cryo blade it and what's cool about is

you can using CT guidance do percutaneous cannulated pins and screws and a cement o plasti ver bladed cavity and when you're done the patient who initially couldn't walk now can and whose pain scale went down to one so I

think that's that's very important to realize the potential of image-guided medicine this is something that previously would have had to been done in the orthopedic lab so you know I think this is extending options where

otherwise it would have been difficult same thing applies to the spine you can ablate and fill them with cement so

So question. I do have a wonderful group of nurses, an excellent group that I get the chance to work with

and they have asked 100 questions and they've listened to me talk a few hundred times. Anyway, hopefully, they have helped to make this a clear presentation. One of our EP physicians looked over the information and he and a device nurse also agreed

and they were wonderful. I do have the samples here, the Medtronic grip Trip Walker gave me. Anyway, you're welcome to come up and take a look at them. But before I do, do you have any questions? Yes.

- [Woman] So our Medtronic rep comes and does whatever he does, we never really know. We think you said (distant indistinct muttering) okay, they're sent to eight. We sit there with pulse ox on, they get scanned. We reset to whatever they were before and they leave,

so clearly I'm going to up it a little bit after seeing this talk. But he doesn't always stay. I know. So we don't have a device nurse. It's just this Medtronic rep.

Would that be-- - And how would you access him if you had an emergency? - [Woman] I don't know. That's what I'm going to work on-- - Totally. - [Woman] He has left the building before.

(indistinct chattering) I know! (distant indistinct muttering) - No, he shouldn't-- (distant indistinct muttering) - [Woman] So if he has the rest of these slides somehow, I mean, I got most of these but (mumbles) I got three pages here but the other things

that say like (distant indistinct muttering) stuff like that. - I don't, but it's going to be on the web or whatever they do, and it will all be there. distant indistinct muttering) Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And your physicians, our docs know on the morning

of the procedure that all the devices that are going to happen, hopefully they will have reviewed that. - [Woman] This is how it works. Our scheduling calls the MRI, MRI says okay (mumbles) pacemaker.

An MRI technologist calls Medtronic. Medtronic or the other (mumbles) companies says yay or nay, this is our device. (distant indistinct muttering) Other than the ordering doctor, there's no doctor that knows that patient's there.

The cardiologist knows-- (overlapping dialogue) - According to this consensus statement, and it's all highlighted, you know, that if you're saying, "Hey, where are our guidelines "and how are we doing this and where does this come from?"

you have a really strong statement that is a little bit confusing. They've written a very concise guideline. It doesn't say a whole lot of information about much of anything actually in my opinion. But this statement is 50-some pages.

It has clinical studies and it has information about caring for these patients and how they should be assessed and programmed. (distant indistinct muttering) It is. And it's on the back actually of your paperwork too, the name of that study.

Mm-hmm? - [Woman] Just a question about traditional and nontraditional pace. Right now we only do, yeah, they did an x-ray (distant indistinct muttering). - You can't tell that from an x-ray.

- [Woman] Right, but I mean, the look of the model just to see if it's MRI compatible (distant indistinct muttering) just the actual pacer (distant indistinct muttering) and then we have, the EP comes down, (distant indistinct muttering) nurse that comes down and interrogates

and shuts the pacer, puts them in a certain mode before we do it, but I'm just concerned about the difference between traditional and nontraditional (distant indistinct muttering) - So she's questioning about conditional or nonconditional.

You can't tell by looking at the device. You need to have information from the programmer itself telling you what the device is and if there's a lead that matches it. Like I said one time we had recently had a patient that had a nonconditional lead,

but the device was deemed conditional. But it really would then made it a nonconditional system. And that has those extra requirements according to this guideline. Now it doesn't say this is the way it has to be. It says, your institution needs to adapt

or to make their own very clear protocols so that when you go into the scanner and you're taking responsibility for that patient, you know that they have been thoroughly, you're safe, as safe as can be. (distant indistinct muttering)

Nonconditional is a device that is not FDA approved. Conditional is FDA approved, whoops. And I think we're at about a couple seconds here, so if you have questions I'm glad to answer them. Back there too, but hmmm? (distant indistinct muttering)

She's been back there since the beginning. (distant indistinct muttering) I don't know that an LVAD would be compatible by any stretch of the imagination. Reveals or those monitors are actually, are MR compatible. There's also a single or a lead-less system

that is MR compatible. I have those up here too so if you want to take a look at those, you can. They're really cool little gadgets. But LVAD would not be. Whoops.

Sorry. - Just to keep on time because we have another like her starting. If we can just step out in the hallway and have her finish addressing your questions and getting the answers.

And to reiterate, just watch for your emails coming from ARIN and you'll have access to her lecture, her slides. So for people who want to make practice changes, it'll be available. - And I did put my contact information on those papers

that I handed you. If you have any questions, please let me know. (audience applause drowns out dialog) Thank you.

Sean I know you have not seen these slides at all you wanted I John can talk about this with his eyes closed so it's

not like there's anything but this is the data that was published from the Jade publishing jvi are from what Sean has written and it's just the current standards relating to what you should be expecting what we tell our patients that

they should expect for outcomes as it relates to uterine artery embolization again I'm not really here to try to point this I know you can google these you can get the information yourself but just to say that all of our procedures

have risk and we need to be clear with our patients about them now I believe that with all of these risks combined the benefits of doing uterine fibroid embolization for most patients is far greater than the risk and that's why I

really do have my practice so these are the benefits right shorter hospital stay and I would say more cost-effective and that is really debatable because gynecologists have become smarter and smarter now they're doing like same-day

hysterectomies if you have a vaginal hysterectomy then maybe a UFE is not as cost-effective because they don't have to do an MRI beforehand and they don't get an MRI afterwards and do all of that anyway and if you look at the long-term

cost of that then maybe having a hysterectomy in some patients could be that but we know for sure that patients are more satisfied when they get a embolization procedure than in my MEC to me not in the beginning run because the

procedure can be very painful that is not the procedure itself is painful but post embolization syndrome which could last anywhere from five to seven days can can be very painful again this is the comparative data that was published

by dr. Spees who is our gold medal winner this year understand a lot a lot of work in this space has allowed us to have this conversation with our gynecology partners but also with our patients as we talked about like when

can you return to work how long are you going to be all for you know am I going to need extra child care or whatever how long would I be in the hospital this information helps us to inform our patients about that then on average

you'll stay in the hospital around you know a day or so and most uterine artery embolization procedures are same-day procedures and interventional radiologists are doing these in freestanding centers as well as other

providers without any issues so we're almost down to the end we know that fibroid embolization is proven to be an effective and durable a procedure for controlling patient symptoms it's minimally invasive and it's outpatient

most patients can go back to some normal activity in one to two weeks it has a low complication rates and some patients mein neatest to surgery and should have surgery so in our practice we send around 1/3 of our patients or so to

surgery and the reason that that is that high is that patients are allowed to come and see myself or dr. de riz Nia from the street they do not have to be referred from their gynecologist and so they're just coming from the street then

you will be referring them to a gynecologist because of some of the things that may not make them a good candidate for embolization such as this

of all that all the the probes and the modalities I'm sorry so RFA you can have multiple probes the cost is cheap it's quick but the ablation zone is small and you have this heat sink issue the procedural pain is moderate but the best

attribute is that it is cheap so if you don't have a lot of money for ablation RFA is the way to go cryo on the other hand you can put in multiple probes which means you can get just enormous burn

I'm sorry ablation sizes but the time is slow right so you're gonna stand there for a while while the ice forms and freezes and forms again you get a higher risk of bleeding there's a moderate issue of heat sink effect or it's really

cold sink if you will but the procedural pain as I mentioned is is low so you can do with conscious sedation and my biggest benefit of that I perceive with cryo is the ability to visualize that ice ball and then finally microwave

which is the new kid on the block will you can use single or multiple probes depending on the vendor it's it is expensive depending on the probes you use in the vendor that you use but it's very quick as I mentioned 10 minutes

usually you can get a pretty sizable ablation zone size some will advertise up to four and a half centimeters which is pretty good size you don't really want to be doing a whole lot of ablations in most organs if the lesions

more than four and half centimeters so that's very comforting to have that large ablation that's very predictable there's no issue with heat sink but the procedural pain is high so if you want to do microwave you're gonna more than

likely have to use general anesthesia or somehow find a way to mitigate that pain and that's all I have on ablation so there's any questions of entertain them

staffing is evolutionary so there we are this is how we started we're happy we're eager we're brand new we had a slow start so we only had a few

patients at a time and I don't think we had any idea of how challenging our staffing was going to become look at us you have no idea we started with three technologists five nurses and the two are SAS the text

would work out of the control area and into the procedure rooms and the nurses would work in the two prep rooms two procedure rooms in our six bed recovery room our original plan was to slowly transition the nursing staff out of the

prep area through the recovery area as the needs of the day changed I would work more as the team coordinator moving things along and addressing delays breaking staff etc the RS aides have already explained where to help move

patients seamlessly through the center and escorting patients and family assisting room turnover as our case volume and our services increase though our staffing became inadequate we gained a vascular surgery service

neuroradiology and neuro interventional all came to our site so we also lost two of our nurses to disability which left us in an extreme staffing deficit we needed to continue to be creative and innovative while maintaining an

incredible standard of care and adhering to strict safety guidelines with multiple high-cost projects we had a new hospital that was opening up with NYU Kimmel the hospital became more stringent and approving additional

staffing throughout the campuses and off sites for quite a while although that's turning around we just hired two more nurses

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