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Colon Cancer, Liver & Spine Mets | Radioembolization, Temporary Embolization | 55 | Male
Colon Cancer, Liver & Spine Mets | Radioembolization, Temporary Embolization | 55 | Male
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Ablative Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
Ablative Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
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The Landscape of PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
The Landscape of PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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Practice Guidelines | Procedural Sedation: An Education Review
Practice Guidelines | Procedural Sedation: An Education Review
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Massive PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
Massive PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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Where do we go from here for submassive PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
Where do we go from here for submassive PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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The Ways to Recanalize the Below the Knee Vessels | AVIR CLI Panel
The Ways to Recanalize the Below the Knee Vessels | AVIR CLI Panel
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Clinical Workflow for PET/MRI | PET/MRI: A New Technique to Obtain High Quality Diagnostic Images for Oncology Patients
Clinical Workflow for PET/MRI | PET/MRI: A New Technique to Obtain High Quality Diagnostic Images for Oncology Patients
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Patient Education PET/MRI | PET/MRI: A New Technique to Obtain High Quality Diagnostic Images for Oncology Patients
Patient Education PET/MRI | PET/MRI: A New Technique to Obtain High Quality Diagnostic Images for Oncology Patients
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Pre-procedure Assessment | Procedural Sedation: An Education Review
Pre-procedure Assessment | Procedural Sedation: An Education Review
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Background on Interventional Oncology | Interventional Oncology
Background on Interventional Oncology | Interventional Oncology
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CTEPH Studies | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
CTEPH Studies | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
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Cone Beam CT | Interventional Oncology
Cone Beam CT | Interventional Oncology
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Systemic vs Catheter-based Thrombolysis | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Systemic vs Catheter-based Thrombolysis | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
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An Overview of PET, MRI and PET/MRI | PET/MRI: A New Technique to Obtain High Quality Diagnostic Images for Oncology Patients
An Overview of PET, MRI and PET/MRI | PET/MRI: A New Technique to Obtain High Quality Diagnostic Images for Oncology Patients
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General Screening Criteria (specific to bleeding risk) | Risk Mitigation: Periprocedural Screening and Anticoagulation Guidelines to Reduce Interventional Radiology Bleeding Risks
General Screening Criteria (specific to bleeding risk) | Risk Mitigation: Periprocedural Screening and Anticoagulation Guidelines to Reduce Interventional Radiology Bleeding Risks
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Summary of Carotid Interventions | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
Summary of Carotid Interventions | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
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Why Interventional Oncology | Interventional Oncology
Why Interventional Oncology | Interventional Oncology
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Indirect Angiography | Interventional Oncology
Indirect Angiography | Interventional Oncology
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Treatment Options- Carotid Endarterectomy (CEA) | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
Treatment Options- Carotid Endarterectomy (CEA) | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
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Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
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The Ablation Concept | Interventional Oncology
The Ablation Concept | Interventional Oncology
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Therapies for Acute PE | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Therapies for Acute PE | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
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Pulmonary Ablation | Interventional Oncology
Pulmonary Ablation | Interventional Oncology
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An Overview of Fibroids | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
An Overview of Fibroids | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
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Q&A- Respiratory Compromise | Respiratory Compromise: Use of Capnography During Procedural Sedation
Q&A- Respiratory Compromise | Respiratory Compromise: Use of Capnography During Procedural Sedation
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Bland Embolization | Interventional Oncology
Bland Embolization | Interventional Oncology
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How We Established our Practice Guidelines | Risk Mitigation: Periprocedural Screening and Anticoagulation Guidelines to Reduce Interventional Radiology Bleeding Risks
How We Established our Practice Guidelines | Risk Mitigation: Periprocedural Screening and Anticoagulation Guidelines to Reduce Interventional Radiology Bleeding Risks
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Endovascular AVF creation | Twitter Case Files SIR 2019
Endovascular AVF creation | Twitter Case Files SIR 2019
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The Path Forward | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
The Path Forward | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
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Renal Ablation | Interventional Oncology
Renal Ablation | Interventional Oncology
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Transcript

so this is a 55 yer old man with colon cancer and liver mets,

but he also has a spine metastases. So this patient presented with metastatic disease so he never had his primary resected, he got chemotherapy, he got a radiation to his spine met and then the follow up head CT showed that he he had a lot of liver metastasis that were still hypermetabolic

but his primary colon tumor was no longer hypermetabolic and the spine metastasis were also not active. So the only hypermetabolic disease was in the liver. This patient had good liver function, billirubin 0.3, child pugh A and his ECOG one. So in terms of radioembolization for colorectal mets we're treating unresectable liver dominant disease,

so the question really is what is liver dominant disease and how much extrahepatic disease is too much? So if you take a look at patients who are dying from colorectal cancer and you're try and figure out why are they dying. Most of the deaths are due to the liver metastases.

So this is sort of the rational for saying that if the patient has big liver metastases, they have some extrahepatic disease but it's small, and it's stable or it's shrinking, then there might still be

a rational for treating liver metastases, that's gonna be the cause of death. So in this case we did do SIR-Speres, we treated the right hepatic artery. This is the pre-treatment PET-CT and one month after treatment we

got a follow up PET-CT. You can't see it on these slides but there was a partial response on the right and the left had a significant progression but the big problem is that there was new activity in his primary colon cancer on the follow up. So we decided at this point, it's sort of a

a grey zone but we decided that with progressive extrahepatic disease that it was no longer liver dominant and so we did not treat his other side. >> [LAUGH] >> You disagree? Well I have one more slide on it and maybe we could have a discussion.

>> Go ahead. >> So I think PET-CT is very helpful for colorectal liver mets, so for evaluating response quickly, so we generally get a PET-CT before treatment and then one to two months after treatment we'll get a followup PET-CT to evaluate response.

And that's just because that we can actually see the response one to two months after treatment on PET-CT, whereas on CT or MRI it can take two or three months to really see a response on imaging. So, if you're dealing with something that is not hypermetabolic on PET-CT such as HCC then you're not gonna be able to follow response

on PET-CT, and you're gonna have to wait two or three months to see the response on the CT or MRI. The other thing that makes PET-CT really helpful for colorectal mets is that only half of them actually show a response. So if we don't see a response on one lobe, we typically won't treat

the other lobe as it probably won't respond as well. So, thoughts on this? >> I think that's an interesting algorithm, I guess we don't have the luxury of using PET-CT as much in integrating it into the algorithm. I think we use it in our institutions much more to determine

if patients are gonna go to surgery to make sure they don't have unrecognized nodal disease or something but as far as decision making for liver directive therapy, we don't use it much and I think on follow up when you see patients at one month after Y90 at least as long as they're not progressive and often times you're

following a CEA and if the CEA is coming down or at least not rising and they're showing a least stable disease at one month you write that it's gonna take three to six months sometimes for maximal imaging response but as long as they're not progressing, we go ahead and treat the other side.

I think the other thing you think about is as far as sequential lobar approach versus whole liver in a single treatment session I think in the clinical trials we're doing, we treat the whole liver with separate infusions right and left lobe, it's safe to do that. And people who have have extrahepatic disease like this gentleman

or someone who really should be getting back on systemic therapy earlier. We're starting to do more whole liver therapy particularly like melanoma patients, patients like that who really need to get back on their systemic therapy quickly. We treat the whole liver in a single session so as not to delay

them getting back on systemic therapy. I think it's one of those things that really is on a case by case based I don't know what you guys do in your practice. >> Well, I think for colon cancer, we don't stop chemotherapy so I mean it's different for doing in salvage but if they are on chemotherapy, it's perfectly safe to do Y90 concurrently with chemotherapy.

You just have to pay attention to what drugs they are on. So the 5FU, you don't have to dose reduce and it's a radio sensitizer so it's actually good to have them on that, if they're on full flux, you have to dose reduce the external platin/g for the couple of months that they're getting Y90 so you have to coordinate

that with your oncologist. If they are on [UNKNOWN] you don't have to dose reduce a renal t-can so really the issue of keeping on chemotherapy, they needed it if they have extrahepatic disease I say just keep them on it, and we'll

just treat right through in coordination with the chemotherapy. >> No vastin. >> No vastin right, so that's why we asked them to stop for a month before we do them and stay off until we go back on again. You can do it, the extrahepatic disease issue is really a judgement call.

I think your estimate of the percentage of colorectal patients who die from liver failure is low, 53% I think is a way underestimate. I think it's probably more like 70 and the other thing is, it's obviously a judgement call. You have to look at the patient and the patient's scans and you

have to say in your heart of hearts, do you think they're gonna die from liver failure or from dissemination and that's sort of subjective. In every paper we published on chemoembolization for any tumor type, extrahepatic disease has never statistically impaired survival

versus the patient you treat with no extrahepatic disease at Pem. On the other hand if you look at North Western patients, they're on your papers. Most of their papers,

extrahepatic disease did statistically significantly reduce survival compared to patients who did not have it, which to me just means we have better judgement than they do. I mean at some point if you are too aggressive doing lucrative therapy like I've said at some point you have to say

no, no. This is all risk versus benefit and you know if the benefit isn't there, it's not worth the risk. It's just a question of where you draw the line. The other phenomenon that actually Edd described was that it's not at all unusual for patients in systemic therapy to respond outside

the liver and not in the liver. So the liver is this wonderful protective place for tumors to grow where the liver detoxifies the systemic agents. So with many different types of metastatic disease, you all see the scenario where they actually may have a fair amount of extrahepatic

disease but that is all stabler responding to chemotherapy and the liver is progressing. And they will ask you to lay around liver therapy in that setting because they don't have control of the liver and they have control everywhere else. In which case the amount of extrahepatic disease is not so important because

that's being controlled by the drugs. So you kinda have to look at each patient individually. There are a lot of different factors that can play in that decision. [BLANK_AUDIO] >> That's it for my case, so Susan I think we have

some cases. >> Any comments or questions from the audience about anything we've talked about so far? There are no stupid questions except the ones you don't ask.

them so my particular area of interest is a blade of radium ization and what we'd like to do is to break the liver

down into a bunch of little tiny perfused volumes off of a single vascular pedicle or what we call angio zones and those are those allow us to segment out if you only have small volume disease for example like here in

segment three why do I have to treat the entire left to paddock low I can actually treat just that small portion just like it what it tastes only now I'm administering y9t but since it's expendable liver I

can administer doses that are way higher orders of magnitudes higher than what I could if our infusing into the liver just on its own so here's an example of that if you look at this lesion in the right of panic lobe you'll see these

little lines over them what we want to achieve is around a 205 GRA threshold for these lesions that's the red line everything that's south of red in terms of color orange Holly to blue is not cold enough to kill tumor so if we

administer a dose of a tea grade to the lobe we get this coverage which is to be a partial response if I administer 150 grey suddenly that red line gets larger what happens when you administer 400 grey now you've officially covered the

entire lesion and so you're going to lose the adjacent liver at those kind of doses and as well - what what the real question then is not sort of how much dose you give it's you give what you need to to ablate the tumor in its

entirety and you see what the patient's left with if someone's left with anatomically a lot of remnant liver because of how you've segmented out that lesion then go ahead and dose extremely high and that's essentially what we've

seen in pathologic results it's one of the highest things of high school pathological crosa rates you can achieve with a trans arterial therapy it's highly competitive with thermal ablation in the correctly selected bleezin

so this is an example of what it looks like when you segment out a little lesion like this and this patient ultimately went to resection and this was a complete pathologic necrosis but as you can see even it was a cirrhotic

patient we chose a very small volume of liver that we felt the patient would tolerate so that's a blade of vernalization let's take a look at what looks like in real time so we have a little capsular lesion we felt that

ablating this patient who was a potential transplant candidate we felt we can probably with a blade of radium realization so you go in and this is the comb beam CT that looks at a complete enhancement of the lesion within the NGO

zone this is what the MAA looks like when we administer it you can see how it tends to cluster within the tumor but you can see what the adverse territory is the liver adjacent to it this is what the engine room looks like how highly

selective it is the day of and this is what the wine ID actually looks like is the wine 90 doing its job and you can see how conformal it is there's no risk whatsoever to the liver that's adjacent outside of that field of

a maximum of around 11 millimeters and this is a patient at one month with a complete imaging response and this patient never developed a recurrent to the site and what's actually sole mode of treatment for this person's liver

cancer this is how you get complete pathologic response if you look at those little tiny grey dots in there those are actually the spheres within tiny little vessels within the tumor sometimes they go even to the portal branch but you can

see how they're not clustered uniformly but when you make them super hot that allows them to give range where otherwise they would be fine a little bit short so this also applies to the whole lobe this was a patient that had a

very unusual presentation of colon cancer that was invading the portal II we weren't sure what to do with this patient no one was because a very rare occurrence so we said well we would like

to resect him but there's not enough liver and we're not sure if this person's gonna survive because we've never seen portal cancer invading the portal vein so we said let's treat it with the radiation lobectomy and what's

cool here is if you look at the the arteries even though the tumor is invading the portal vein it's bringing arterial supply along with it like a vagabond and that's the conduit that allows us to treat these patients so

when we saw that we felt this patient we good candidate for irradiation lobectomy which is applying an ablative dose of y9t to the entire low not just a small segment in patients where otherwise cannot because of the anatomy the tumor

or if you're trying to shrink that lobe to get that person ready for surgery why because if you look at the size of the lobe on the left from this first image and compare it here you can see how much larger it got what happens is that part

that the surgeon ultimately tens on resecting in volutes over time and becomes completely vitalized and turns into scar tissue so we know that if a surgeon goes in afterwards to cut it out it's going to not result in liver

failure and that level of security allows people to have sir who otherwise wouldn't this patient is not going to have metastatic disease because we followed their blood level markers let me see how low they are and

is going to have enough liver remnant so the patient went to resection and this is the pathologic specimen and this was also a complete pathologic necrosis so I

I want this to be as instructive as possible I do have some multiple-choice questions that are peppered in there and hopefully you guys feel comfortable enough to shout out answers I really don't care if you get it right or wrong so but if I teach it right I hope it's

clear what the answers are okay so and and I know the title test says that I'm going to be talking about parts frankly I think there's a lot more to talk about about PE other than parts and I'm not going to be emphasizing that

but if there's time to ask questions or I'm happy to speak about that as well because I think the disease and the treatments are really the crux of PE at this point okay so I start with something called the landscape where are

we with pulmonary embolism well you know I don't know how many of you have seen PE in the IR suite or have dealt with these patients or even have friends or family that have had a PE but I don't think anybody who's interacted with this

disease would argue with the fact that PE is a big deal why do I say that statistically speaking well there are 900 000 VTE events per year that's DVT or PE that's a lot it's almost a million now the number of deaths from PE every

years quoted to be as high as 300 000 but is around 60 150 is what we think so quite a few this affects everybody you know you might have heard of Serena Williams getting a PE Chris Bosh and Serena Williams I think had a massive PE

which I'll tell you the definition of that later but it's a it's it's something that can affect a young person and kill that young person so that's what makes it a little bit tougher than some of the other diseases it's the

third most common cause of cardiovascular death stroke mi then PE ten percent are fatal within the first hour so a lot of these patients you're not even gonna see and when you do see them you've got a big task ahead of you

because they're you're trying to rescue them from death that's basically the same statistic now if you were to take every patient who comes into the hospital and you put an echocardiogram on them and you looked at the right

ventricle their right ventricle would show some evidence of dysfunction and so that's an interesting statistic because right ventricular dysfunction is you'll see on a subsequent slide is actually a pretty big deal and is actually at the

crux the pathophysiology of PE now if you were to do a VQ scan around six months after people got a PE you would find that 1/3 of those patients actually have residual thrombus so we think that you

know PE is a acute disease but what we're finding is that it's actually a cute disease that can become chronic and a lot of people and we're actually revealing unveiling the fact that maybe a year or two years after their PE these

patients aren't doing as well as we thought so that this is a burden it's a chronic it's a chronic disease that causes a burden on their lives so this is the disease and and you know as an IR you look at this and you say well that's

pretty exciting looks like we can intervene on something meaningfully but there are some caveats we should remember first most patients have low risk PE s I'll define that in a little bit but these patients don't need an

intervention they just need anticoagulation to the best of our knowledge that says all this this group needs sub massive PE I'll spend quite a bit of time on and it's a very controversial topic and there's a

lot of different attitudes between interventionalists and non interventionists about sub massive PE when you get a massive PE patient this is the patient that's crashing and burning most of them should receive

systemic thrombolysis which is an IV in the arm and a drug through their vein it's the fastest thing you can do and it doesn't involve corralling an IR suite the team for the IR suite or a surgical team and as I just said there's a wide

range of attitudes regarding treatment aggressiveness so I'm not going to go

so my name's Heather I'm a nurse in interventional radiology at NYU Langone health in New York and I am the clinical resources for our department so what that means is I'm responsible for individualizing our education to meet the needs of our department and one of

the first things I wanted to look at when I took on the role was our procedural sedation practices and how we can improve by enhancing our knowledge this presentation includes many of the lessons and concepts that I learned

along the way that I think are really important to understanding how to effectively administer procedural sedation so our learning objectives are going to be a review of the guidelines pre-procedure assessment components

including airway assessment pharmacology of the medications that we give and intra procedure assessment so this is the 2018 AAS a practice guidelines for a procedural sedation by non anesthesiologist has everyone seen this

good great as so this is especially important because as you'll see the American College of Radiology and Society of interventional radiology were involved in its development so this is our guideline and I think it's really

important to look at this look at the practice recommendations and see how they align with your own practice and if there may be some changes you need to make first thing you always want to look at when you're reviewing any sort of

literature whether it's evidence-based guidelines or maybe just a review article is you want to look at the methodology that the author used to create the guideline so anybody know why that's important you just shout it out

so if I want to write a guideline for procedural sedation I could find a bunch of studies or review articles that fit my point of view and use them throw them at the bottom and that would be that but even if I use for an demise control

trials which are considered the gold standard of experimental research those randomized controlled trials could be poorly constructed randomized controlled trials so they may have introduced bias at some point into the study

that's skewed the outcome and the findings so you really want to make sure that the authors of the guideline that you're looking at appraise the research that they're using to support their recommendations and that's what the

aasa' task force did so they used randomized control trials and observational studies and then they categorize the strength and the quality of the study findings so as you're going through you'll see that statistically

significant was deemed a p-value of less than 0.01 and outcomes were designated as either beneficial harmful or equivocal equivocal meaning this findings were not significant one way or the other and then they also used

opinion based evidence from experts so they surveyed members of their task force and they did take into account some informal opinion from message boards and letters to the editor so I think a good example here is one of

their recommendations about capnography so they did a meta-analysis of randomized control trials that indicated that the use of continuous and title carbon dioxide monitoring was associated with a reduced frequency of hypoxemic

events when compared to monitoring without capnography and then you'll see at the end of the recommendations this category so for this particular recommendation they labeled it as category a1 - B evidence and what that's

telling you as category a means it was a randomized control trial which is great it was a level one meaning it's a high level of strength and quality and B is telling you that there was statistically significant findings that demonstrated

benefit to the patient now another recommendation that you may see as you're reading through would be the NPO guidelines so if you look at any of the literature about NPO recommendations it's really all expert

opinion because all of the evidence has shown equivocal findings so for example one of the studies they looked at compared the outcomes of patients who had clear liquids one hour prior to the procedure versus two hours and they

found no change in the outcome I think it's important when you're a provider and you're looking at that because you're gonna base your judgment calls on the evidence so you may have a patient come in who had tea up until one hour

prior to their procedure and you have to make a decision whether or not you want to cancel or proceed and you could look at the findings of the literature that shows that there really hasn't been a proven difference in outcomes so you may

decide to just do the procedure versus capnography there's very strong evidence showing it's beneficial to the patient always so I think this is a real big take-home point of why we do everything we do about procedural sedation all of

our assessments and enhancing our practice as a sedation is a continuum and practitioners intending to produce a given level of sedation should be able to rescue the patients whose level of sedation becomes deeper than initially

intended pre-procedure our assessment

about massive PE so let's remember this slide 25 to 65 percent mortality what do we do with this what's our goal what's

our role as interventionalists here well we need to rescue these patients from death you know this it's a coin flip that they're going to die we need to really that there's only one job we have is to save this person's life get them

out of that vicious cycle get more blood into the left ventricle and get their systemic blood pressure up what are our tools systemic thrombolysis at the top catherine directed therapy at the right and surgical level that what

unblocked me at the left as I said before the easiest thing to do is put an IV in and give systemic thrombolysis but what's interesting is it's very much underused so this is a study from Paul Stein he looked at the National

inpatient sample database and he found that patients that got thrombolytic therapy with hypotension and this is all based on icd-10 coding actually had a better outcome than those who didn't we have several other studies that support

this but you look at this and it seems like our use of thrombolytics and massive PE is going down and I think into the for whatever reason that that the specter of bleeding is really on people's minds and and for and we're not

using systemic thrombolysis as often as we should that being said there are cases in which thrombolytics are contraindicated or in which they fail and that opens the door for these other therapies surgical unblocked demand

catheter active therapy surgical unblocked mean really does have a role here I'm not going to speak about it because I'm an interventionist but we can't forget that so catheter directed therapy all sorts

of potential options you got the angio vac device over here you've got the penumbra cat 8 device here you've got an infusion catheter both here and here you've got the cleaner device I haven't pictured the inari float

Reaver which is a great new device that's entered the market as well my message to you is that you can throw the kitchen sink at these patients whatever it takes to open up a channel and get blood to the left ventricle you can do

now that being said there is the angio jet which has a blackbox warning in the pulmonary artery I will never use it because I'm not used to using it but you talk to Alan Matsumoto Zieve Haskell these guys have a lot of experience with

the androgen and PE they know how to use it but I would say though they're the only two people that I know that should use that device because it is associated with increased death within the setting of PE we don't really know you know with

great precision why that happens but theoretically what that causes is a release of adenosine can cause bradycardia bradycardia and massive p/e they just don't mix well so

massive PE well let's remember this at this point including all the trials that preceded the pytho trial almost 1 700 patients have been randomized into systemic lytic trials for some massive p yep all we have on the CDT side is the

ultimate trial of 59 patients non-us single was a single trial that's where this initiative is coming from to improve the data this trial called P track and I have preliminary information that we just made our first breakthrough

in fronting from the NIH so very excited that we have a planning grant to potentially get this thing moving so P tract is basically designed to be a randomized control trial of catheter directed therapy versus no catheter

directed therapy for sub massive PE to really try to answer this question just like the pytho trial tried to do for systemic thrombolysis in the setting of catheter Ida thrombolysis and this time we're not just using surrogate endpoints

we're not you the rvw ratio is probably not even gonna be calculated but what we want to know are these are patients doing better in one arm or the other and we're going to use outcomes that are important to both patients and providers

400 to 500 patients most likely looking at sites all across the so but we are still in this time when

they travel together so that's what leads to the increased pain and sensitivity so in the knee there have been studies like 2015 we published that study on 13 patients with 24 month follow-up for knee embolization for

bleeding which you may have seen very commonly in your institution but dr. Okun Oh in 2015 published that article on the bottom left 14 patients where he did embolization in the knee for people with arthritis he actually used an

antibiotic not imposing EMBO sphere and any other particle he did use embolus for in a couple patients sorry EMBO zine in a couple of patients but mainly used in antibiotic so many of you know if antibiotics are like crystalline

substances they're like salt so you can't inject them in arteries that's why I have to go into IVs so they use this in Japan to inject and then dissolve so they go into the artery they dissolve and they're resorbable so they cause a

like a light and Baalak effect and then they go away he found that these patients had a decrease in pain after doing knee embolization subsequently he published a paper on 72 patients 95 needs in which he had an

excellent clinical success clinical success was defined as a greater than 50% reduction in knee pain so they had more than 50% reduction in knee pain in 86 percent of the patients at two years 79 percent of these patients still had

knee pain relief that's very impressive results for a procedure which basically takes in about 45 minutes to an hour so we designed a u.s. clinical study we got an investigational device exemption actually Julie's our clinical research

coordinator for this study and these are the inclusion exclusion criteria we basically excluded patients who have rheumatoid arthritis previous surgery and you had to have moderate or severe pain so greater than 50 means basically

greater than five out of ten on a pain scale we use a pain scale of 0 to 100 because it allows you to delineate pain a little bit better and you had to be refractory to something so you had to fail medications injections

radiofrequency ablation you had to fail some other treatment we followed these patients for six months and we got x-rays and MRIs before and then we got MRIs at one month to assess for if there was any non-target embolization likes a

bone infarct after this procedure these are the clinical scales we use to assess they're not really so important as much as it is we're trying to track pain and we're trying to check disability so one is the VA s or visual analog score and

on right is the Womack scale so patients fill this out and you can assess how disabled they are from their knee pain it assesses their function their stiffness and their pain it's a little

bit limiting because of course most patients have bilateral knee pain so we try and assess someone's function and you've improved one knee sometimes them walking up a flight of stairs may not improve significantly but their pain may

improve significantly in that knee when we did our patients these were the baseline demographics and our patients the average age was 65 and you see here the average BMI in our patients is 35 so this is on board or class 1 class 2

obesity if you look at the Japanese study the BMI in that patient that doctor okano had published the average BMI and their patient population was 25 so it gives you a big difference in the patient population we're treating and

that may impact their results how do we actually do the procedure so we palpate the knee and we feel for where the pain is so that's why we have these blue circles on there so we basically palpate the knee and figure

out is the pain medial lateral superior inferior and then we target those two Nicollet arteries and as depicted on this image there are basically 6 to Nicollet arteries that we look for 3 on the medial side 3 on the lateral side

once we know where they have pain we only go there so we're not going to treat the whole knee so people come in and say my whole knee hurts they're not really going to be a good candidate for this procedure you want focal synovitis

or inflammation which is what we're looking for and most people have medial and Lee pain but there are a small subset of patients of lateral pain so this is an example patient from our study says patient had an MRI beforehand

workflow for pet MRI upon arrival the patient have to fill out questionnaires the MRI screening for contrast and allergy assessment pet screening form

the RT will review MRI screening for after he checked that the patients at MRI safe and no presence of a Mia Ferris fragments or anything he would give the paper to the RN the patient then will be escorted through the change room and

asked to put on robe and non slip shots this is these are the responsibilities of the nurse in our clinical workflow for pet MRI RN to review pet screening form and contrast questionnaire if patient have to receive gadolinium check

kidney function EGFR below 15 you notify the radiologist except for a of s below 30 you notify the radiologist check for allergies if allergic make sure patients is properly pre-medicated

check for Medicaid presence of medication patches and implanted infusion pumps now also you have to check for patient's blood glucose monitoring I have one but I would but I don't go inside the scanner so I'm safe

check for pregnancy status with pediatric patients we have a special process to follow the iron then obtains blood glucose and record if blood glucose is 70 to 199 we proceed with the scan anything above 200 we follow the

glycemic management with PET imaging flow chart and here's how our PET imaging flow chart looks like it looks complicated by its color coded it's three pages but I would like to show you some key points like the administration

of insulin is also based on the level of BMI you see on the arrow says BMI below 25 and there's another flow chart is if it's above 25 after that the patient will be brought back to the pet designated injection room

remember our pet MRI is located in zone three of the MRI area so prior to that the RT would the screen the patient again the patient would pass through the wall-mounted metal detector and nobody could go into song free without escorted

by the IRT or a nurse you have to swipe your ID to open the door mission when the patients in the hot room are in would obtain the height in centimeters and weight in kilos after that the RN now could do IV access once

secured you call the range of pharmacists that you're ready to inject so we wait until and the FDG dose would come up through the pneumatic children this is how our hot lab looks like the pneumatic tube to your left above is the

shower and we have the hoop to prepare for the dose or check for the dose and the wash station and once the those arrives the nurse injecting and the RT is scanning or the RT assisting just always two artists in one machine in our

MRI Department we have four magnets and only one is for MRI PET MRI it's always two artists in each machine so one RT is assisting you and with the patient so once the FDG arrives we do a patient identification using two patient

identifiers we check the label and the dose if it's correct the FDG then will be injected to the patient once injected we tell the patient they have to wait for 40 minutes during this time we instruct them to stay still not stay

still but limit movement and stimulation and inform them that we have a camera inside that room and the nurses in a and the nurses could monitor them in the nurse's station one RT will set up the scanner and computer

and patient will be screen and wondered prior to so on for so you get wandered twice check for ferrous presence patient then will be positioned on the scanner table by the pet mr technologies it takes 15

to 20 minutes for setup you have seen how the patient is position the whole body is covered by the coils and head is covered by another coil as anybody among he works in the institution who requires time out prior to injection raise your

hand please at ms KCC we do this is done by the injecting nurse and the RT is scanning the RT is reading information directly from the monitor not anywhere in the monitor while the nurse is comparing and listening into the using

the documents on hand this is done to ensure the five rights the right patient the right scan the right area your scanning the right contrast those and rate and method of administration as you all know is either given IV push or by

the dynamic or the injector timeout will be done if patient will be receiving gadolinium once the scan is finished IV access will be removed our artists are trying to remove and inject also so they are capable of removing the IV the

radiation card will be handed to the patient and paste after that patient would be assisted to the change room and discharge there is good thing when you change the patient into the robe and the non-skid

sucks because just in case there's a spill you're not sending that patient into the paper outfit they're not gonna be happy at all now I'm gonna bring you

gets pet MRIs right now our main focus are our oncology patients it helps us

determine the type of cancer they have the diagnosis of cancer assess disease progression treatment therapy and treatment planning and some antecessor treatment response so let's say a lesion is FDG avid and

has low blood perfusion that would help our physicians to us to say what kind of treatment they can give to the patient pet MRI is also good for patients who can tolerate longer scans right now it's a very young modality

there's still a lot of research goes on with this and coupled with that is advantage of research right now we actually in the Memorial sloan-kettering we have started using this instead of FDG we've used gallium 68 of to assess

neuroendocrine tumors who have also done cervical lymph Austin Tiger phim where FDG is injected directly at the patient's cervical cavity and that helps map out the lymph nodes in the survey in the pelvic area this can be used by the

surgeon and see what lymph nodes can be sampled during the surgery we provide some education and assessment before during and after the pet MRI we assess for the patient's allergies we tell the patient's they have to be NPO at least

six hours prior to FDG injection as for our anxious patients they often come pre-medicated and this just comes with some care coordination with their physician the physician would prescribe some low-dose anti-anxiety medications

and the patient would take it an hour before their test as for our claustrophobic patients we what we have done is we let them see the Machine we let we let them feel the Machine we put them inside if they would want to and it

would be up to them if they would be tolerating the scan we assess for their diabetes regimen and my refe will speak more about that later we assess for patients pregnancy status on patients loving to fifty years old process for

their breastfeeding status and screen their implants during the pet MRI we tell them about the coil placement we give them an emergency call bell and we tell them to decrease their movement well being is like although our some of

our patients would say I didn't move but then the image so differently there there's a possibility that the magnet can induce some involuntary twitching after the MRI we tell them that they can resume their

diet they can resume their diabetic diabetes regimen and as if they get MRI contrast they can pump and dump for about 24 hours after the test but if they don't get a contrast they can keep their breast milk inside the fridge just

to help to decay just to decay the isotope that was given to the patient it doesn't give any harm to the baby

includes an interview of the patient abnormalities of major organ systems like cardiac status do they have a reduced ejection fraction do they have coronary artery disease I want to know

if they have an EF of 10% because if they become hemodynamically unstable and I want to give them fluids I'm not going to bolus a patient with a very low ejection fraction with two liters of fluid you're gonna cause

pulmonary edema and you're going to worsen the situation renal status is huge a lot of our patients are renal e impaired and that can affect the way that they clear the sedation medications that we're giving pulmonary status do

they have COPD asthma or sleep apnea sleep apnea is major in procedural sedation neurologic status do they have a history of seizures endocrine status hyper or hypo metabolism of medications can occur if they have a thyroid

disorder we want to know about adverse experiences with sedation in the past do they have a history of a difficult airway for us at NYU if they have been already been identified as a difficult airway that automatically means we're

doing the procedure with anesthesia current medications potential drug interactions is very important we'll go over that a few slides drug allergies and herbal supplements that they're taking tobacco alcohol or

substance use and frequent or repeated exposure to sedation agents is just going to increase their tolerance of the medications physical exam vital signs auscultation of heart and lungs and then their airway assessment sorry excuse me

do they have any Strider snoring or sleep apnea advanced RA they're gonna have a hard time tilting their neck back if they have cervical spine disease or they have rheumatoid arthritis chromosomal abnormalities like

trisomy 21 patients with Down syndrome can have an enlarged tongue that can impair your ability to manually ventilate them if respiratory depression wants to occur body habitus if they have significant obesity especially of the

head and neck areas and head and neck limited neck extension short neck decreased ornamental distance which is basically just looking at how far back they can tilt their head any neck mass and then again cervical spine disease or

trauma do they have a c-spine collar are they on c-spine precautions that's not a patient we're going to be able to manipulate their airway and then mouth opening we do use Mallampati and I'll review

that in a couple of slides so the AFC classification is a categorization of the patient's physiologic status that can be helpful in predicting operative risk it is recommended by the AFA that if a patient is an Asaf or that that

should prompt an evaluation by an anesthesiologist I will tell you at NYU we will still get procedural sedation to some patients who are in Asaf or but we like to identify it ahead of time because if they have significant

comorbidities that will potentially increase their likely hurt likelihood of having an adverse outcome we then have a lower threshold for activating a rapid response or a code if something was to happen if we got concerned about

something so the airway assessment is

no thanks to the avir we really wouldn't be able to do anything that we can without y'all so I take great great pride in sharing things from our perspective said you folks can start contributing your own thoughts your own opinions and your own vision during

these cases I think it's certainly something that I've appreciated since the first day of doing invention where do you all do so having said that we're just a smidge in the behind side so we'll try to focus today is mainly a

survey to stimulate everyone in terms of what's actually happening on the other end of the catheter with respect to the patient why are we doing these things where's our role and I think that's gonna add hopefully some value the next

time you folks step in on one of these cases alright so as you know dr. daughter first was able to visualize the inside of a blood vessel and find a stenosis and a lady who had limb ischemia and then was able to use a

dilator to fix that so obviously that gave birth to interventional radiology so we started taking pictures of tumors just to diagnose tumors back in the day before we had actual imaging and what we found

was well if tumors have a high demand for blood just like anything else what happens if we take away that blood and this is a 1975 image of renal cell carcinoma is to call them hyper and if Roma's back then but basically the

concept of interventional ecology was born the moment you could do something to make the environment for the tumor less hospitable and to try to palliate patients if they weren't subject to the the gold treatment standards like

resection in this case so fast forward to 2016 there was a huge study was International where they looked at over 3 000 patients who have primary liver cancer or her pata cellular carcinoma and what they found was that regardless

of where but if you sum all the treatment decisions that are related to those patients about 70% will see treatment by an interventional radiologist as you know that was a astounding amount

so si are listened to a lot of these types of messages even outside of obviously oncology basically we realize that there's a tremendous responsibility and the best thing to do is to dedicate ourselves fully to that and that's why I

think with IR now is a separate medical specialty we're going to start seeing more of the clinical involvement of this and certainly think the caseloads going to go up so why interventional oncology

that was one example so these are there have a lot of potential complications reperfusion pulmonary edema is a very very big potential complication so you could get through the case patient does

great you open up multiple pulmonary arteries and then they start coughing up blood and then they end up started drowning in their own blood and the ICU so we do not want to push that and the initial papers that you can see down

below on that table they had a very high almost 10% in some cases pulmonary edema requiring treatment requiring patients being put on CPAP or being intubated and that is because they treated too much at one time

and so now as this when this first started in the early 2000s the operators were treating multiple segments at multiple times at one time and they were using large balloons and we figured out that that was what was killing patients

and so we changed our treatment so this is the first study that was ever performed for this it was performed by dr. Feinstein I believe this was published in circulation it was done in Harvard at MGH they had 18 patients with

36 month follow-up they all improved in their ability to walk as well as their lifestyle but many of them 11 out of 18 patients had reperfusion injury so this was the first paper and at that time it became the last paper because so many

patients did poorly but here's what they're sort of what they did and the ones that did okay they you could see that they had an improvement in the New York Heart Association classification again that just means they can walk

further they're not less short of breath and that they could walk further in 6 minutes which is again our sort of first test outcomes over time whence this has become increased so you can see that study was in 2001 and then

it kind of went away for a long time and it came back in 2012 in Japan where the most operators are there they've treated up to 255 procedures now since this slide was made we're up to a thousand in Japan and those patients are doing very

well but you'll notice that they have multiple procedures so again you don't try to one-and-done these patients they come back four to six times we've treated a couple patients where I work and we've treated that was patients four

times already and so they do much better but it's a slow slow and steady treatment so I want to wrap up with saying that the IR team is very critical to patients who are getting treated for PE we're involved in the diagnosis as

the radiology team acute and chronic PE it's very important to know as I've shown you in some of the examples and some of the images which when it's acute and versus chronic doing thrombolysis on a patient with chronic PE is useless all

you're doing is putting them at a risk you're not going to be able to break up that clot it's very important to have inter and multidisciplinary approach to patient care so interdisciplinary meaning everybody in this room nurses

technologists and physicians working together to take care of that patient that's on your table right now and multi-disciplinary because you have to work with cardiology vascular medicine the ICU teams and the

referring providers whether it's neurosurgery vascular surgery whomever it is who's Evers patient gets a PE you have to work together and it's very important again to have collaborative care in these patients if we're doing a

procedure and somebody notices that the patient is desaturating that's very very important when you're working in the pulmonary arteries if somebody notices that the patient's groin is bleeding you have to speak up so it's very important

that everybody is working together which is really what we need to do for these patients so there's my references and there's my kid so thank you guys very much hopefully this was helpful I'd be

know we're running a bit short on time so I want to briefly just touch about

some techniques with comb beam CT which are very helpful to us there are a lot of reasons why you should use comb beam CT it gives us the the most extensive anatomic understanding of vascular territories and the implications for

that with oncology are extremely valuable because of things like margin like we discussed here's an example of a patient who had a high AF P and their bloodstream which tells us that they have a cancer in her liver we can't see

it on the CT there but if you do a cone beam CT it stands up quite nicely why because you're giving levels of contrast that if you were to give them through a peripheral IV it would be toxic to the patient but when you're infusing into a

segment the body tolerates at the problem so patient preparation anxa lysis is key you have them exhale above three seconds prior to that there's a lot of change to how we're doing this people who are introducing radial access

power injection anywhere from about 50 to even sometimes thirty to a hundred percent contrast depends on what phase you're imaging we have a Animoto power injector that allows us to slide what contrast concentration we like a lot of

times people just rely on 30% and do their whole the case with that some people do a hundred percent image quality this is what it looks like when someone's breathing this is very difficult to tell if there's complete

lesion enhancement so if you do your comb beam CT know it looks like this this is trying to coach the patient and try to get them to hold still and then this is the patient after coaching which looks like this so you can tell that you

have a missing portion of the lesion and you have to treat into another segment what about when you're doing an angio and you do a cone beam CT NIT looks like this this is what insufficient counts looks like on comb beam so when you see

these sort of Shell station lines that are going all over the screen you have to raise dose usually in larger patients but this is you know you either slow down the acquisition speed of your comb beam or

you raise dose this is what it looks like after we gave it a higher dose protocol it really changes everything those lines are still there but they're much smaller how do you know if you have enhancement or a narrow artifact you can

repeat with non-contrast CT and give the patient glucagon and you can find the small very these small arteries that pick off the left that commonly profuse the stomach the right gastric artery you can use your comb beam CT to find

non-target evaluation even when your angio doesn't suggest it so this is a patient they have recurrent HCC we didn't angio from here those arteries down there where those coils were looked funny even though the patient was

quote-unquote coiled off we did a comb beam CT and that little squiggly C shape structures that duodenum that's contrast going in it this would be probably a lethal event for the patient or certainly would require surgery if you

treated that much with y9t reposition the catheter deeper towards the lesion and you can repeat your comb beam CT and see that you don't have an hands minh sometimes you have these little accessory left gastric artery this is

where we really need your help you know a lot of times everyone's focused and I think the more eyes the better for these kind of things but we're looking for these little tiny vessels that sometimes hop out of the liver and back into the

stomach or up into the esophagus there's a very very small right gastric artery in this picture here this patient post hepatectomy that rides along the inferior surface of the liver it's a little curly cube so and this is a small

esophageal branch so when you do comb beam TT this is what the stomach looks like when it enhances and this is what the esophagus looks like when it enhances you can do non contrast comb beam CTS to confirm ablation so you have

a lesion this is the comb beam CT for enhancement you treat with your embolic and this is a post to determine that you've had completely shin coverage and you can see how that correlates a response so the last thing we're going

a little bit more systemic versus catheter directed thrombolysis so once you've decided that a patient needs TPA what are the differences here well if

you give patients systemic TPA you're gonna give them a much more rapid delivery this is for those patients who have high-risk PE they're the ones who are coding for those patients you give them 200 milligrams of IV usually you

get 50 first and then another 150 over a very short time period they have a very high risk of bleeding as a result of that a catheter is much slower you're gonna infuse one milligram maybe which is what I think most people do

over several hours maybe a few maybe a day so it's slower targeted versus non targeted well catheter is much more targeted you're gonna give Pete you're gonna give the TPA right into the

pulmonary arteries that's the whole point in our in our thought process as a result you give a lot less drug so when you give a patient based off of some of the trials 24 milligrams of TPA over a 24-hour period that's a lot less than

200 milligrams in a 10 minute period and then the bleeding risk is very different for these patients catheter based treatments have a high bleeding risk but it's possibly lower than the initial bleeding risk of patients getting

systemic TPA so I wanted to go through a

positron emission tomography is the use

of a radioactive tracer in this case FD gee her fluorodeoxyglucose to assess the metabolic activity of ourselves ftg is tagged with glucose and glucose is used by our body for energy cancer cells are thought to be our Armour hypermetabolic

so if we inject FDG to our patients it goes to areas with hyper metabolic activity this area is called a hotspot and when a hotspot is noted in a PET scan its it's thought to be cancerous this is an example of a hyper metabolic

region noted in the pelvic area of the patient this patient is diagnosed of cervical cancer and what is MRI as you all know MRI is the use of radio frequency currents produced by strong magnetic fields to provide detailed

anatomical structures it is the preferred method for imaging soft tissue organs and there's no ionizing radiation present now what is pet MRI pet MRI is a combination of these two modalities instead of going to two scans using two

scanners we have one scanner that is able to obtain pet and MRI images simultaneously so why can't we just call this pet well we run through a few problems we have fdg-pet CT where it's a PET scan with low-dose CT accompanying

it and there's fdg-pet CT with diagnostic CT we're full sequences of CT is coupled with a scan and a pet MRI always has a diagnostic MRI done with it

guys do so when we do our screening phone calls and our pre screens before

the actual procedure there's a few factors that we look at for the patients with blood pressure the patient needs to be vitally stable before we do a procedure there may be a slightly increased risk of bleeding for kidney

biopsy if patients are hypertensive although it hasn't been noted to be statistically significant in the literature so we are always aware of patients being hypertensive we do want them to be taking their medications the

day of the procedure we also do a full medication reconciliation with the patient making sure that we're checking on any anti platelets anticoagulant medications and we have a list of our hold times that we use for a reference

we already discussed for those of you who are at this session this morning the issue of liver disease is it stable liver disease they may have adequate he stasis even though their INR is not within the normal range and so we

recommend a stable INR of less than 2.5 for those patients and in our practice a lot of the providers are going away from correcting the INR s for our patients we also screen for hematological disorders do they have some known condition that

makes them more likely to bleed or conversely more likely to clot and that may factor into whether or not anticoagulation can be held do they have a current diagnosis of cancer are they going to be getting one of those

angiogenesis inhibitors might they have thrombocytopenia and we just do a brief review of the patient's chart before we call them to kind of look for those diagnoses do they have a history of bleeding especially if they have no one

platelet dysfunction you know a known history of bleeding can be a reliable predictor of bleeding risk for some patients and do they have a cardiac or a neurological history as we learned this morning patients that have recently had

a cardiac stent placed we can't just say yeah stop your plavix hold off 5 days it'll be fine that could be a very serious risk to the patient did they recently have a stroke have they had a PE why are they on their anticoagulation

if they're on it so we really need to be aware of the whole patient and having that pre-screening phone call with them can allow our nurses to figure out a lot of these problems and then alert the radiologists and try and troubleshoot

before the patient walks in the door and says yeah I took my warfarin this morning I'm all ready for my liver biopsy the radiologists don't like that much in it you know it's really a bad thing for our high volume area to have

that happen and this is just another chart of our oh did I get mixed up here you guys are gonna fire me from running this clicker there we go so the whole times are again based on the half-life and the mechanism of action and this is

pretty similar to what you saw in the the presentation earlier today and specifically that imbruvica that's something that we alert the radiologists who they have a discussion with the patient decide is this something that we

want to continue with and I will say that in our practice with the volume and the the level of acuity of our patients I think that a lot of our providers are fairly comfortable with a certain level of risk because that's just who our

patient population is you know we have a very large hospital two large hospitals and very sick patients so that's something that we you know some of them are more comfortable than others but it's a risk-benefit thing that they have

to decide on themselves with the patient obviously all right so here are our

I think it's important to understand what options we have in in treating patients with carotid disease or those

in our practice medical therapy is a mainstay so all these patients regardless that they get t'car carotid stenting or otherwise need to get the best medical therapy there is a role though for each of these surgical

endovascular or a hybrid such as t'car and hopefully you have a better understanding of that option and ultimately if you understand the different techniques then we can apply the best ones depending on the patient's

anatomy or current clinical scenario and and apply that to that patient thank you [Applause]

the traditional three pillars are

surgical medical and rad honk which actually was once part of radiology and separated just like interventional radiology has and where is the role for this last column so many patients are not medically operable so if you set the

gold standard you know that the cure for someone has a primary liver mass well about 20 percent of patients who present can undergo resection what you do for the remaining portion so Salvage is what we offer when someone has undergone

standard of care and it didn't work how do we hop back in and try to see how much these folks it's low-risk it's not very expensive at all as compared to things like surgery and the recovery is usually the same date so

this concept here of tests of time is kind of interesting a lot of times when we look at a tumor let's say it's 2 centimeters it's not really the size of the tumor but it's how nasty of a player it is and it's

difficult to find out sometimes so what we do is we'll treat it using an IR technique and watch the patient and if they do well then we can subject them then to the more aggressive therapy and it's more worthwhile because we've found

that that person is going to be someone who's likely going to benefit you can use this in conjunction with other treatments and repeat therapy is well tolerated and finally obviously palliation is very important as we try

to focus on folks quality of life and again this can be done in the outpatient setting so here's a busy slide but if you just look at all the non-surgical options that you have here for liver dominant primary metastatic liver

disease everything that's highlighted in blue is considered an interventional oncology technique this is these the main document that a lot of international centers use to allocate people to treatments when they have

primary liver cancer HCC and if you see if you see at the very bottom corner there in very early-stage HCC actually ablation is a first-line therapy and they made this switch in 2016 but it's the first time that an

intervention illogic therapy was actually recommended in lieu of something like surgery why because it's lesions are very small its tolerated very well and it's the exact same reason why your dermatologists can freeze a

lesion as opposed to having to cut everything off all the time at a certain point certain tumors respond well and it's worth the decrease in morbidity so

to talk about is indirect angiography this is kind of a neat trick to suggest to your intervention list as a problem solver we were asked to ablate this lesion and it looked kind of funny this patient had a resection for HCC they

thought this was a recurrence so we bring the comb beam CT and we do an angio and it doesn't enhance so this is an image here of indirect port ography so what you can do is an SMA run and see at which point along the

run do you pacify the portal vein and you just set up your cone beam CT for that time so you just repeat your injection and now your pacifying the entire portal vein even though you haven't selected it and what to show

well this was a portal aneurysm after resection with a little bit of clot in it the patient went on some aspirin and it resolved in three months so back to our first patient what do you do for someone who has HCC that's invading the

heart this patient underwent 2y 90s bland embolization microwave ablation chemotherapy and SBRT and he's an eight-year survivor so it's one of those things where certainly with the correct patient selection you can find the right

things to do for someone I think that usually our best results come from our interdisciplinary consensus in terms of trying to use the unique advantages that individual therapies have and IO is just one of those but this is an important

lesson to our whole group that you know a lot of times you get your best results when you use things like a team approach so in summary there are applications to IO prior to surgery to make people surgical candidates there are definitive

treatments ie your cancer will be treated definitively with curative intent a lot of times we can save when people have tried cure intent and weren't able to and obviously to palliate folks to try to buy them time

and quality of life thermal ablation is safe and effective for small lesions but it's limited by the adjacent anatomy y9t is not an ischemic therapy it's an ablative therapy you're putting small ablative radioactive particles within

the lesion and just using the blood supply as a conduit for your brachytherapy and you can use this as a new admin application to make people safer surgical candidates when you apply to the entire ride a panic globe

thanks everyone appreciate it [Applause] [Music]

it's obviously either done with general

anesthesia or perhaps a regional block at our institution is generally done with general anesthesia we have a really combined vascular well developed combined vascular practice we work closely with our surgeons as well as

you know those who are involved in the vascular interventional space as far as the ir docs and and in this setting they would do generally general anesthetic and a longitudinal neck incision so you've got that and the need for that to

heal ultimately dissect out the internal carotid the external carotid common carotid and get vessel loops and good control over each of those and then once you have all of that you hyper NIH's the patient systemically not unlike what we

do in the angio suite and then they make a nice longer-term longitudinal incision on the carotid you spot scissors to cut those up and they actually find that plaque you can see that plaque that's shown there it's you know actually

pretty impressive if you've seen it and let's want to show an illustrative picture there ultimately that's open that's removed you don't get the entirety of the plaque inside the vessel but they get as much as they can and

then they kind of pull and yank and that's one of the pitfalls of this procedure I think ultimately is you don't get all of it you get a lot more than you realize is they're on on angiography but you don't get all of it

and whatever is left sometimes can be sometimes worse off and then ultimately you close the wound reverse the heparin and closed closed it overall and hope that they don't have an issue with wound healing don't have an issue with a

general anesthetic and don't have a stroke in the interim while they've clamped and controlled the vessel above and below so here's a case example from our institution in the past year this is a critical asymptomatic left internal

carotid artery stenosis pretty stenotic it almost looks like it's vocally occluded you can see that doesn't look very long it's in the proximal internal carotid artery you can see actually the proximal external carotid artery which

is that kind of fat vessel anteriorly also looks stenotic and so it's going to be addressed as well and this is how they treated it this is the exposure in this particular patient big incision extractors place and you can see vessel

loops up along the internal and external carotid arteries distally along some early branches of the external carotid artery off to the side and then down below in the common core artery and ultimately you get good vessel control

you clamp before you make the incision ultimately take out a plaque that looks like this look how extensive that plaque is compared to what you saw in the CT scan so it's not it's generally much more

impressive what's inside the vessel than what you appreciate on imaging but it's the focal stenosis that's the issue so ultimately if yet if the patient was a candidate stenting then you just place a stent

across that and he stabilized this plaque that's been removed and essentially plasti to that within the stent so it doesn't allow any thrombus to break off of this plaque and embolize up to the brain that's the issue of raw

it's the flow through there becomes much more turbulent as the narrowing occurs with this blockage and it's that turbulent flow that causes clot or even a small amount of clot to lodge up distally within the intrical in

terrestrial vasculature so that's the issue here at all if you don't take all that plaque out that's fine as long as you can improve the turbulent blood flow with this stent but this is not without risk so you take that plaque out which

looks pretty bad but there are some complications right so major minor stroke in death an asset which is a trial that's frequently quoted this is really this trial that was looking at medical therapy versus carotid surgery

five point eight percent of patients had some type of stroke major minor so that's not insignificant you get all that plaque out but if you know one in twenty you get a significant stroke then that's not so bad I'm not so good right

so but even if they don't get a stroke they might get a nerve palsy they might get a hematoma they may get a wound infection or even a cardiovascular event so nothing happens in the carotid but the heart has an issue because the

blockages that we have in the carotid are happening in the legs are happening in the coronary so those patients go through a stress event the general anesthetic the surgery incision whatever and then recovery from that I actually

put some stress on the whole body overall and they may get an mi so that's always an issue as well so can we do something less invasive this is actually a listing of the trials the talk is going to be available to you guys so I'm

not going to go through each of this but this is comparing medical therapy which I started with and surgery and comparing the two options per treatment and showing that in certain symptomatic patients if they have significant

stenosis which is deemed greater than 70% you may be better off treating them with surgery or stenting than with best medical therapy and as we've gotten better and better with being more aggressive with best medical therapy

this is moving a little bit but here's the criteria for treatment and so you have that available to you but really is

patient like this you have a very large left lateral HCC that's invading the left the patek vein and extending into the heart since when we get into things like radioembolisation if you have

multifocal liver disease if you want to apply radiation therapy to that's very difficult to do that because it actually requires more radiation dose to kill HCC than it does the adjacent normal liver the liver is actually that ready

sensitive so you can do things like SBRT and pick an individual lesion you can do things like a imrt which is you know survey 8 non focus generalize low dose but what's interesting Malaysian is that if you administer

particles they only shoot about two millimeters worth of the raishin field around it so of what used is that with one not much but if you put eight to forty million of them within the bloodstream they Auto sort themselves

based off of the vascular flow preferential that exists with tumors tumors actually emit hormones pull in blood supply that you weren't born with and that actually tends to pull beads from the bloodstream preferentially

towards it so this is an example where you stain a tumor with two types of wax one the portal that's blue one the artery that's red and you can see how much that preferential exists so what ends up happening is these spheres

cluster within the tumor and then provide local dose radiation that's very hot where the tumor is and low elsewhere so here's an example of that this is a patient with metastatic neuroendocrine disease multifocal liver lesions you can

see that vascular flow preferential this is what it looks like on the maa when we jecht a protein particle surrogate that has a technician I should have assigned to it just as a visualization of how the particle is

going to sort out and the post y9t bremsstrahlung CT is over there and you can see how intense the necrosis is within the tumor and how much it's spared the normal liver however you do get some radiation damage they don't

live a regardless that's why choosing the timing of when you're gonna do this is important this is a patient that was treated with tastes above and one session of y9u beneath so you can see that they do have different types of

therapeutic mechanisms they're not the same even though they look very similar in terms of when we're administering

the ablation concept in general is to provide an environment that is

completely hostile to tumor minus 40 degrees Celsius 150 degrees Celsius 500 gray which is a radiation dose we say it's very hard for it's about anything to survive but so why is it that it doesn't always work well that's a

function of all those parameters that you see there we got to make sure we pick the right patients we got to make sure that we treat tumor where we think it is and avoid trading things that don't need treatment avoid causing

damage to collateral structures and getting a reasonable margin where we actually get some of the tumor that's microscopic there are a lot of ablation modalities radiofrequency alternates electrical current very rapidly so that

generates friction within the lesion and causes heat it looks like this a lot of times you see these little times that stick out so that you can increase the size of your blasian zone and here's a one of those deployed in a patient who

had a colorectal Curren after hepatectomy cryoablation freezes things and it pushes a gas that once it goes through a pin hole tends to expand and cause rapid freezing he can also push another gas right through it and cause

rapid heating but this is just bringing tumors to that minus 20 degree minus 40 degree threshold the nice part about cryoablation is that you can visualize your ablation zone so we're right up against the bile duct here and it tends

to be a little more respectful of tissues so that's why cryoablation is chosen every once in a while we're do frequency ablation is an excellent tool we have lots of data for it but likes it sometimes it's difficult determine where

the ablation zone is interprocedural e microwave ablation there was just a randomized study that came out that compared microwave ablation to radiofrequency ablation and the results are very similar

it was a very very experienced institution doing it but the whole point here is that a lot of these tools work pretty well there's no clear superiority on them but one thing that microwave offers it's very fast so generates

temperatures to boiling within the tumor in about five minutes and so it's certainly very fast as compared to radiofrequency and you can see boiling happening within this tumor that's been accessed eventually there that gas is

actually literally fluid that is boiling away from the tumor couple of cool ones this one's reversal expiration what we do here is we place probes throughout the lesion and we pulse it to confuse the membrane on the cell to think that

it's a it has holes in it that it cannot close and so what is happening is the contents inside the cell leave and that's pretty much consistent with not being able to survive the nice part is we can accomplish all that without

thermal ablation what do we mean that we don't go over about 40 degrees Celsius so if something is involving a bile duct or involving a critical structure like the ureter it's not actually going to damage it it just basically tells all

the the cells within there to stop stop undergoing the cellular mechanisms responsible for life it's a little more finicky to place you have to place these little parallel probes here's one we did that was directly write on the

bifurcation of the main bile ducts and you can see here afterwards is an immediate post contrast scan how that whole area is ablative it does not take up contrast and this patient never developed biliary strictures that side

PE the first one of course is

anticoagulation so heparin and bridging the patient to coumadin or now aid a direct oral anticoagulant is really the mainstay of treatment most patients again 55 percent of patients with PE have low risk PE all of those patients

should be on according to the chest guidelines three months of anticoagulation so they're gonna get heparin as an inpatient if they even need it and they're gonna get sent home on lovenox bridge to coumadin or they're

gonna get the one of the new drugs like Xarelto or Eliquis but here's all the other things that we do so these patients that are in the intermediate high risk so I'm gonna try to keep saying those terms to try to kind of put

that in everyone's brain because I think the massive and sub massive PE is what everyone used to talk about but we want to keep up with our colleagues in cardiology who are using the correct terminology we're gonna say high risk

and an intermediate but in those patients - intermediate high risk or Matt or the high risk PE patients we're gonna be treating them with systemic thrombolysis catheter directed thrombolysis ultrasound assisted

thrombolysis and maybe some real lytic and elected me or thrombectomy there's other techniques that we can use for one-time removal of clot like rotational and electa me suction thrombus fragmentation and then of course

surgical mblaq t'me so when anticoagulation is not enough so I like to show this slide because it shows the difference between anticoagulation and thrombolysis they are very different and sometimes I think everybody in this room

understands the difference but I think our referring providers don't and so when we when we get consulted and we recommend anticoagulation they're like yeah TPA well that's not the right thing so anticoagulation stops the clotting

process so when you start a patient on a heparin drip they should theoretically no longer before new thrombus on that thrombus so when you have thrombus in a vessel you get a cannon you get a snowball effect more

and more thrombus is gonna want to form heparin stops that TPA however for thrombolysis actually reverses the clouding process so that tissue plasminogen activator or streptokinase or uro kindness will actually dissolve

clot so there you're stopping new clot forming versus actually dissolving clot anticoagulation allows for natural thrombolysis so your body has its own TPA and so when you put a patient on heparin you're allowing your natural

body defenses to work you're giving it more time TPA accelerates that process so you give TPA either systemically or through a catheter you're really speeding up that process anticoagulation on its own has a

lower bleeding risk you're putting a patient on heparin or Combe it in it's it is less but it is still real thrombolysis however is a very very high bleeding risk patients when I when I consult a patient for thrombolysis I

tell them that we are about to do give them the absolute strongest blood clot thinning agent or an reversal agent which is the TPA and we're gonna just run it through your veins for hours and hours

um and that sort of gives them an idea of what we're doing anticoagulation in and of itself is really not invasive you just give it through an IV or even a pill thrombolysis however is given definitely through an IV through

systemic means and a large volume there thereafter or catheter directed so again

blasian it's well tolerated and folks with advanced pulmonary disease there's a prospective trial that showed that

there are pulmonary function does not really change after an ablation but the important part here is a lot of these folks who are not candidates for surgical resection have bad hearts a bad coronary disease and bad lungs to where

a lot of times that's actually their biggest risk not their small little lung cancer and you can see these two lines here the this is someone who dr. du Puy studied ablation and what happens if you recur and how your survival matches that

and turns out that if you recur and in if you don't actually a lot of times this file is very similar because these folks are such high risk for mortality outside or even their cancer so patient selection is really important for this

where do we use it primary metastatic lesions essentially once we feel that someone is not a good surgical candidate and they have maintained pulmonary function they have a reasonable chance for surviving a long

time we'll convert them to being an ablation candidate here's an example of a young woman who had a metastatic colorectal met that was treated with SPRT and it continued to grow and was avid so you can see the little nodule

and then the lower lobe and we paste the placement prone and we'd Vance a cryo plugs in this case of microwave probe into it and you turn off about three to five minutes and it's usually sufficient to burn it it cavitate s-- afterwards

which is expected but if you follow it over time the lesion looks like this and you say okay fine did it even work but if you do a PET scan you'll see that there's no actually activity in there and that's usually pretty definitive for

those small lesions like that about three centimeters is the most that will treat in a lot of the most attic patients but you can certainly go a little bit larger here's her follow-up actually two years

that had no recurrence so what do you do when you have something like this so this is encasing the entire left upper lobe this patient underwent radiation therapy had a low area of residual activity we followed it and it turns out

that ended up being positive on a biopsy for additional cancer so now we're playing cleanup which is that Salvage I mentioned earlier we actually fuse the PET scan with the on table procedural CT so we know which part of all that

consolidated lung to target we place our probes and this is what looks like afterwards it's a big hole this is what happens when you microwave a blade previously radiated tissue having said that this

was a young patient who had no other options and this is the only side of disease this is probably an okay complication for that patient to undergo so if you follow up with a PET scan three months later there's no residual

activity and that patient actually never recurred at that site so what about

establishing a few things I know that we may have a mixed crowd here and so if I'm saying things that you're like oh come on Newsome we already know that

just just rush me along but if I'm if I'm repeating some other things that that are more interesting then you can slow me down so it is no surprise and I'm often frightened when people say that fibroids

are along the spectrum of cancer fibroids are non-cancerous tumors of the uterine muscle if you remember a little thing about Anatomy that the uterus is made of three specific layers the myometrium which is the main muscle of

the uterus the endometrium wishes the inside part of the uterus and the serosa wishes like a saran wrap of sorts that keeps the whole thing together fibroids are made of the main muscle portion of the uterus and we don't know what it is

but something happens and it turns that muscle portion of the uterus on and when it over grows it grows into a ball and we refer to that ball as a fibroid fibroids are the most common pelvic tumors in women it is the leading cause

of hysterectomy in the US and even though we've been doing hysterectomies forever one third of all hysterectomies that are done in the United States are done for benign disease and we know all kinds of sexy ways now to stop bleeding

you freeze it you make it cold you make it hot we have Lube cautery and all kinds of things and still in 2019 we can't stop the bleeding from fibroids which then result in women who are scheduled for

myomectomy to have a hysterectomy as a way of controlling the bleeding so there are a few other things that we know about fibroids we know that the symptoms are very varied depending on where these fibroids actually end up and

the symptoms of heavy bleeding still remains the most common symptom dysfunctional uterine bleeding abnormal heavy menstrual pain menstrual cycles pelvic pain and symptoms of bulk that is I cannot drink a can of coke before I've

got to go to the bathroom I know every rest stop between my house and where I've got to be every time I laugh or sneeze I pee on myself I'm doing 200 sit-ups a day and I'm wearing two Spanx if that is happening to you that's not

normal we also know that fibroids have a high impact on the quality of our patients lives and their productivity because if you can't go to work and you take off from work and you're really not able to

take your kids to the soccer game or do all the other things that you really want to do then I think that that is really quite disruptive of your life and yet women year after year suffer from these types of symptoms and do not come

to getting any type of treatment at all in fact they don't even tell their doctors about it because they just accept that as kind of normal and the average time from when women start suffering from these symptoms to when

they actually seek treatment is around three and a half years and I work in Atlanta and the average time is away above that and I would say to you that just go with me here and I'm sorry for any male that is in the audience that

will be offended but if you could imagine now now just use my own husband for example if he could not have an erection for two weeks in a row I think he would see the doctor immediately however women will wait for five years

with all kinds of symptoms and not actually seek any treatment forget an erection if they're constipated for two weeks in a row they go to see the doctor this is a real public health burden and I know that I talked about the survey in

2013 and where si are is doing a big thing called a fibroid fix it's available on the website we'll see if there's a way that we could link it to the avir website but just last year they repeated this survey of around a

thousand women but guess what these statistics had not changed around a third of the women continued to complain of this interruption in the quality of their life due to fatigue or cramping and three-quarters of these women still

prefer a minimally invasive uterine sparing procedure they still want to preserve their uterus even if fertility is not an issue and although I just told you that like 80% of black women will have fibroids by the time they're 50 and

70% of white women there's around a quarter of all women that have never ever ever even heard the term fibroids for a disease that is so common and this affects so much whim so many women and it is still so costly in terms of how

much days they have to take off from work and what they have to do in order to get treated we spend around thirty four billion dollars a year in the u.s. that is on par for the amount that we spend for colon cancer and ovarian

cancer combined for benign disease and yet not much has been done so if you're

so I actually work mostly in

interventional radiology in CT and ultrasound which is actually on a different floor that where we have our cath lab and I our stuff upstairs so that I our doctors are each going between two floors and one of my biggest

concerns is when we're doing moderate sedation the nurses are down in CT and ultrasound it doesn't matter how many comorbidities the patients have the aasa' is always three or less because they want to justify doing it downstairs

with just one nurse and the procedure list and I just and then you have somebody who obviously needs to be having anesthesia involved and now the anesthesiologist or the nurse anesthetist they get a circulating nurse

with them and I'm just wondering is there a cut-off that anesthesiologists or nurse and necess use for saying okay the a SA when it's this you have to consult with an anesthesiologist before you proceed with a nurse just giving

sedation that's a great question and that's institution unfortunately that's one of those things that is like institution dependent policy and procedure politics finances you know sometimes you'll see patients who really

are in a sa three four or four and a half that are made to be an a sa to write you know so they could be done during off-hours without anesthesia unfortunately it's a symptom so the organization's ever sit together and say

let's look at this globally for the patient safety and if we're doing sedation in this scenario we should still have somebody there who's trained to do the backup for that person I can't speak to your organization's policies

because I don't know them I know that they recommend catalog' Rafi I do know that the avenues to look at would be the Joint Commission in the anesthesia patient safety foundation you know for guidelines and again guidelines are just

that they're guidelines they're not mandates especially you know when institutions develop policies procedures protocols and such I do know on the third bullet down is we have a whole implementation project that we've rolled

out so one of the questions in addition to technical questions we get is how do I go to my institution and kind of change practice a little bit and usually the question is like implementing capnography but it it's a three-part

series that we did on how to implement change in an organization who are the stakeholders who are the champions who can you really talk to that would create change and whether it's the chief of anesthesiology is the person who's your

roadblock or your best friend is it the VP in nursing is it the safety committee you know cuz it takes one adverse event one Sentinel event unfortunately sometimes to change culture it takes more than that I know I know we're

trying a little at a time though but think it was a great comment in question was just made in our institution anesthesia kind of hit at this because the nurses were concerned about what she was just saying and so they worked with

the directors of like IR cath lab the medical directors to you say let's come together and figure out you know if it's a four it doesn't mean that every four needs to be you know it can be given sedation can be given by nurses but at

least get an assessment or things like that and in our institution nurses are able to if they feel like they needed anesthesia consult they can do the anesthesia console it doesn't mean they're gonna have anesthesia but

anestis you can tell you what to give and what not to give mm-hmm but that's that's what they're trying to do they have done for cath they're doing it for IR too and that is I forget them term for it but that's a team collaboration

and so and I must said where we work we actually screen the charts ahead of time because we have some really remote places and some not as remote and it's like the litmus test you know somebody with a BMI 55 is not going to be done

down the street they're gonna be done where emergent resuscitation is right upstairs if needed and same thing holds true like in our institution like anybody can call a patient safety stop meaning like I don't

feel comfortable with this let's not go forward and and again the procedure lists are another list of those champions because procedure lists they care about their pain you know they don't want to see adverse outcomes and

they're so focused sometimes on what they're doing that they kind of black you blank out on some of the peripheral factors and no one wants to see something bad happen on their watch so the procedure lists can be

instrumental in getting better monitoring or advocating for advanced levels of care or at least support for the nurses to have there's another question in your experience are the waveforms the same as far as a

ventilated patient versus a non ventilated patients have you seen any discrepancy in the actual performance that waveform itself yes and no okay so so I'm ventilated patients somebody who's really hyper dynamic I mean I've

seen like you could see sometimes their heart beating you know like just some of the little fluctuations or oscillations for the most part no difference if the non-invasive ventilation patient is getting monitored really right where the

gas is being exhaled like right here you may see some other you know and somebody is intubated so if there's secretions you might see like a little you know blip and such but when things are perfectly working the way they should be

working in both the intubated patient or the patient with an artificial airway versus not the waveform should be spot-on but if you're not seeing that is it a COPD or is it somebody who's got you know bronchitis in there yeah if

you're not seeing that full square waveform the question should be why not is my equipment not working good question great questions did the sign-in sheet make its way I know the spiral bound notebook is over

here but please do make sure that you put your name your email address and you'll be emailed because so you could fill out an evaluation and make sure that you get c e for attending this opportunity today I hope you guys

enjoyed it I hope you took something out of it I hope this just wasn't the basics for you today I hope that there was some value added in to coming today please do hang around we'll be here we'll be in the exhibit hall I know that there's

going to be many more events that are have this afternoon but the rest of the team will be here and we really do look yeah I love working with nurses that are providing sedation's I feel like you're the you're my people you know but you're

the people that are doing this day in and day out and you really are that that patient safety advocate and I feel like when I speak to a roomful of people that you guys go out and teach your precept ease and create change that's going to

impact patient safety so thank you for your attention today and thank you for attending [Applause]

we're gonna move on to embolization there a couple different categories of embolization bland embolization is when

you just administering something that is choking off the blood supply to the tumor and that's how it's going to exert its effect here's a patient with a very large metastatic renal cell lesion to the humerus this is it on MRI this is it

per angiogram and this patient was opposed to undergo resection so we bland embolized it to reduce bleeding and I chose this one here because we used sequentially sized particles ranging from 100 to 200 all

the way up to 700 and you can actually if you look closely can see sort of beads stacked up in the vessel but that's all that it's doing it's just reducing the blood supply basically creating a stroke within the tumor that

works a fair amount of time and actually an HCC some folks believe that it were very similar to keep embolization which is where at you're administering a chemo embolic agent that is either l'p hi doll with the chemo agent suspended within it

or drug eluting beads the the Chinese have done some randomized studies on whether or not you can also put alcohol in the pie at all and that's something we've adopted in our practice too so anything that essentially is a chemical

outside of a bland agent can be considered a key mobilization so here's a large segment eight HCC we've all been here before we'll be seeing common femoral angiogram a selective celiac run you can make sure

the portals open in that segment find the anterior division pedicle it's going to it select it and this is after drug living bead embolization so this is a nice immediate response at one month a little bit of gas that's expected to be

within there however this patient had a 70% necrosis so it wasn't actually complete cell death and the reason is it's very hard to get to the absolute periphery of the blood supply to the tumor it is able to rehab just like a

stroke can rehab from collateral blood supply so what happens when you have a lesion like this one it's kind of right next to the cod a little bit difficult to see I can't see with ultrasound or CT well you can go in and tag it with lip

Idol and it's much more conspicuous you can perform what we call dual therapy or combination therapy where you perform a microwave ablation you can see the gas leaving the tumor and this is what it looks like afterwards this patient went

to transplant and this was a complete pathologic necrosis so you do need the concept of something that's ablative very frequently to achieve that complete pathologic necrosis rates very hard to do that with ischemia or chemotherapy

alone so what do you do we have a

establish our guidelines this was something this was a question that we got when we did publish our journal article because you'll see when you do

see our guidelines we are not 100% in alignment with SAR that is because we used SAR in a detailed literature review and examined both of those sources but then we also have our own homegrown radiology database our nurses are

instrumental in collecting this data every biopsy patient we collect their medication list as well as their current lab values we've been doing this since 2002 and we currently have over 50 000 patients within that database so we pull

from that database to identify what is best what trends are we seeing what medications are we seeing that are causing issue in our practice so we're taking from our own clinical expertise and then we also have a great panel

within Mayo Clinic it's called ask me Oh expert this panel is made up of multiple physicians we have physicians from Department of Laboratory Medicine physicians from our anticoagulation practices we have our liver physicians

can need lots of different doctors we have two radiologists that also sit on that committee so it's a combined specialty panel so we take we took into consideration all of these factors to establish our guidelines our nurses use

these guidelines when they are performing pre-procedure phone calls so I love to the presentation yesterday from Johns Hopkins I believe where they're doing pre procedure phone calls but often times a whole week before we

don't have that yet but I would love to get to that point but right now our nurses are doing pre procedure phone calls within a few days prior to a patient's procedure and we are going through these guidelines to identify

what medication or risk factors these patients have and we're alerting our radiologists to see if there's any type of considerations that we may need to take if for example a patient has not stopped warfarin and

then they also look for if within our guidelines the patient needs lab values we determine if there's lot values ordered or if they have any within the medical record we want them within 30 days except for if the patient has known

or suspected liver disease we do want them more recently within 14 days or if a patient's on chemotherapy or one of those anti antagonists this is something I really need to stress to our nurses and I think I've gotten the point across

to you that these are guidelines only clinical decisions are made by the supervising radiologist so we've we've put this right in all of our guidelines in that yes these are guidelines that we can use those nurses to help triage our

patients and move and streamline our assessment process but sometimes it does further critical thinking and then discussion you want to go into what you

so this is our MGH page we started it about a year ago check it out if you guys like it some pretty good cases we mostly post cases some policy stuff industry and changing things it's not purely cases but certainly take a look if you like it give us a follow so what

I have today is I have two cases that I picked and you know for all the thousands of cases that all these huge academic medical centers do I tried to pick a couple that might be a little interesting and that aren't being done

in all the different centers across the institution so I'll start off with the first which is an endovascular AVF creation so what's nice about this is that you know what we see so far from this is that the length of stay impact

has been certainly reduced in certainly the maturation times and the Rhian turn re intervention rates have been reduced so I'll go through this and normally wouldn't go step by step for a few things but I think you know not all

institutions are doing this yet I think that you will I do think this is going to be a shift for a lot of the dialysis patients and everybody who works anion knows what a huge impact it is the ESRD patients is just astronomical the

numbers of them it's just continuing to rise so procedural steps the first step is you're going to access the brachial vein advance the guide Y down to the ulna insert a six French sheath and perform a vena Graham and the rationale

for that of course is to make sure you don't have any issues centrally some centers do that in advance some centers don't I will mention also that the ultrasound mapping is absolutely critical to make sure that

you get the right patient you start off by seeing them in the outpatient clinic and then you're going to go and have them have vascular ultrasound to make sure you have a good candidate so the next is you're gonna access the brachial

artery same thing advance your guide wire down to the ulna from there you're gonna insert the venous side now this is one of two approved vendors that will allow you to do an endovascular creation this was a wave link it's a to stick

system and it requires two catheters which is why you see the next step is pretty much repeated but just flipping it to the arterial side so from there there's a magnetic zone it actually has like a little canoe so it's got a

backing of a ceramic sort of a space there if you can think of sort of the older or atherectomy cut home catheters that had that little carro canoe you would actually take the debris out it's very

look into that and I'll show you that in a couple of images once you align that you're gonna sort of engage the little electrode this is an RF ablation RF created type fistula so it creates a little slit between the Adri and the

vein and what happens is is that you know of course don't forget you have to ground the patient just like any RF once you get the magnets and you get the electrode alignment you're going to engage the device for two seconds and

the fistula is created and then from there a lot of centers are actually going in there embolize in one of the brachial veins and this is basically to sum some of that stuff obviously to the superficial system for draining I have

read that there are a few places that actually go back back in through the newly-created fistula like even at the time of the procedure with the 4 millimeter balloon and just sort of open that up I'm not sure that that's 100%

necessary but I'm sure all these fine people on the panel could help us with that so here you see and I skipped all the entry steps but here you can see the Venus in the arterial catheter you know in position here and there's that little

canoe thing pointed out by the arrow that I had talked about and you use fluoro to sort of align these two things when you first start doing these cases take your time the first one was over an hour and a half for us now obviously

it's about a third at that time this is the little electrode this is when it's advanced and pretty much ready to engage can you play the video for me so this is quick so what happens is you suppress the

device the electrode actually advances and as it advances towards the veena side what happens is is that it actually just creates this fistula through the RF sort of energy from there you're gonna do a post vena graph in here you can see

after we did an initial post intagram there was enough sort of flow between the PIAT brachial so we decided to embolize one and this patient was our first patient and is doing very well so far this is done on I'm gonna say just

because you know to dr. brains point I don't want to get on the hook for certain dates and patient identification but this was done in mid-march so we saw them two weeks out and we're gonna see them again another couple weeks so just

there's a couple of trials that you can read into one is the neat one is the flex trial I think the technical success is really promising at 96% the maturation days you can see there's a massive massive comparison where they

could be ready to be dialyzed in 60 days and this could be a game-changer for many patients the six-month patency rate is what I've seen in most of the reports it's around 98% compared to about 50% with the surgical place and then you can

see that this about 3.5 interactions or re interventions that are required in about 0.5 at a year's time out from this so it's really making a big difference for these patients and I think this is what we do in i/o we continue advanced

things innovate and obviously look to do things in a more timely cost-effective minimally invasive way at the beginning when these new procedures come out the devices themselves might be at a higher price point but we'll see how that goes

moving forward as more and more vendors get into the space so the second case

patient who did not come from the street so if you've been here for a few years

you've heard me talk about you know some of my friends this is also one of my other friends who has large fibroids but her fibroids were so big and they were not all very vascular and so I sent her to have surgery and she ended up having

a hysterectomy with removal of her cervix because of abnormal pap smears but her ovaries were left in place so our path forward after doing this procedure from 1995 a procedure that is not experimental a procedure that has

had a lot a lot of research done on it more research than most procedures that are done surgically or by interventional radiologists I'd say that it would require a partnership it is true that we can see patients on our own and we can

manage mostly everything but at the end of the day uterine artery embolization is still a palliative procedure because we don't know what causes fibroids to begin with and as long as the uterus is still there there's always a chance that

new fibroids will come back so in your practice and in mind I believe that a path forward is a sustaining program embolization program which is built on a relationship with the gynecologist that yes

I am as aggressive as any other interventionist that is out there but if this were my mom and that is my usual test for things I would say that where we would like to position ourselves is in the business of informing the

patient's as much as possible so that they can make an informed decision and that we're asking our gynecology partners to do the same is that if you're going to have a hysterectomy for a benign disease that you should demand

and we as a society and you as your sisters keeper should be asking for why am I not eligible for an embolization so si R is actually embarking on a major campaign in the next year or so it's called the vision to heal campaign and

it's all around providing education for this disease stage what I like to tell our patients and I'm almost finished here is when I talk to our gynecologist and to techs and nurses as well I said woody woody what should I expect right

that's what they want to know when I send my patient to you what should I expect and I say that what you should expect that Shawn and myself we're gonna tell the patient everything about fibroids we're gonna talk to them about

what the fibroids are the pathophysiology of it the same things I told you we're gonna tell them about the procedures that treat it we tell them about the options to do nothing we talk about all of the risk and the benefits

of the procedures especially of fibroid embolization and we start the workup to see if they're an appropriate candidate when they're an appropriate candidate we communicate with them and their OBGYN and then we schedule them for their

procedure in our practice there are a few of us who send our patients home on the same day and we let our patients know no one is kicking you out of the hospital if you can't go home that day then you'll get to stay but

most of our patients are able to go home that day and then we see our patients back in clinic somewhere between two and four months three months and six months and we own that patient follow-up their visits and after their year we have them

follow back up with their gynecologist and so that we're managing all of these sites and it comes back to that new again may not be so new for some of the people that have been doing clinical IR four years that shift that we own these

patients if you're a nurse in this room these are our patients these questions need to be answered by us in our department we do not believe that these patients should be calling their gynecologist for the answers to that

like what should I be doing right now should I be taking I haven't had a bowel movement and like that is something that we answer we're the ones that are given them the discharge instructions and we set them back up for their follow-up so

different applications renal ablation is very common when do we use it

high surgical risk patients primary metastatic lesions some folks are actually refused surgery nowadays and saying I'll have a one centimeter reno lesion actually want this in lieu of surgery people have

familial syndromes they're prone to getting a renal cancer again so we're trying to preserve renal tissue it is the most renal parenchymal sparing modality and obviously have a single kidney and a lot of these are found

incidentally when they're getting a CT scan for something else here's a very sizable one the patient that has a cardiomyopathy can see how big the heart is so it's you know seven centimeter lesion off of the left to superior pole

against the spleen this patient wouldn't have tolerated bleeding very much so we went ahead and embolized it beforehand using alcohol in the pide all in a coil and this is what it looks like when you have all those individual ice probes all

set up within the lesion and you can see the ice forming around I don't know how well it projects but in real time you can determine if you've developed your margin we do encompass little bit of spleen with that and you can see here

that you have a faint rim surrounding that lesion right next to the spleen and that's the necrotic fat that's how you know that you got it all and just this ablation alone caused a very reactive pleural

effusion that you can see up on the CT over there so imagine how this patient would have tolerated surgery pulmonary

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