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HCC with arterioportal Shunt|TACE |68|Male
HCC with arterioportal Shunt|TACE |68|Male
2016aheadangiographyarterialbasedbeadschemoembolizationcontralateralconventionalcorrelateddiagnosisdoseembolizationfillingfractiongluehepatichepatopulmonaryimaginglipiodolliteratureliverlobelungparticlepatientpatientsperipheralphaseportalprevalencepulmonaryresidualscanscanssevereshuntshuntingshuntsSIRsorafenibspectsystemicthrombosisthrombustreattumortumorsveinvenousvesselsviable
Case 1 - Non-healing heel wound, Rutherford Cat. 5, previous stroke | Recanalization, Atherectomy | Complex Above Knee Cases with Re-entry Devices and Techniques
Case 1 - Non-healing heel wound, Rutherford Cat. 5, previous stroke | Recanalization, Atherectomy | Complex Above Knee Cases with Re-entry Devices and Techniques
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General Screening Criteria (specific to bleeding risk) | Risk Mitigation: Periprocedural Screening and Anticoagulation Guidelines to Reduce Interventional Radiology Bleeding Risks
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Q&A- Procedural Sedation | Procedural Sedation: An Education Review
Q&A- Procedural Sedation | Procedural Sedation: An Education Review
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Treatment Options- TransCarotid Artery Revascularization- TCAR | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
Treatment Options- TransCarotid Artery Revascularization- TCAR | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
angiographyangioplastyarterybleedbloodcalcifiedcarotidchapterclaviclecommondebrisdevicedistalembolicembolizationexposurefemoralflowimageincisioninstitutionlabeledpatientprocedureprofileproximalreversalreversesheathstenosisstentstentingstepwisesurgicalsuturedsystemultimatelyveinvenousvessel
Q&A Uterine Fibroid Embolization | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Q&A Uterine Fibroid Embolization | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
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Pulmonary Ablation | Interventional Oncology
Pulmonary Ablation | Interventional Oncology
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Endovascular AVF creation | Twitter Case Files SIR 2019
Endovascular AVF creation | Twitter Case Files SIR 2019
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Indirect Angiography | Interventional Oncology
Indirect Angiography | Interventional Oncology
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Bland Embolization | Interventional Oncology
Bland Embolization | Interventional Oncology
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Diagnostic Criteria for CTEPH | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Diagnostic Criteria for CTEPH | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
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The Disease Process | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
The Disease Process | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
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Ideal Uterine Fibroid Embolization Candidates | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Ideal Uterine Fibroid Embolization Candidates | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
arterycandidateschapterembolizationfibroidfibroidshysterectomyidealimagingNonepatientpatientsproceduresparingsurgerysymptomsymptomaticsymptomstreateduterineuterus
Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
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PE Case Summary | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
PE Case Summary | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
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Ideal Stent Placement | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
Ideal Stent Placement | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
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PV Access | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
PV Access | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
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Cone Beam CT | Interventional Oncology
Cone Beam CT | Interventional Oncology
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Why Do We Need Different Directions For Occlusions? | AVIR CLI Panel
Why Do We Need Different Directions For Occlusions? | AVIR CLI Panel
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Why is the Capnography Reading Abnormal- Physiology | Respiratory Compromise: Use of Capnography During Procedural Sedation
Why is the Capnography Reading Abnormal- Physiology | Respiratory Compromise: Use of Capnography During Procedural Sedation
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CT Imaging- Chronic PE | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
CT Imaging- Chronic PE | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
acuteadenopathyanglesarteriesatherosclerosisbloodcalcificationchapterchronicclotdistallyDVTembolismirregularmiddleNonepatientproximalpulmonarysagittalscanthromboembolicthrombusvesselvessels
Pre-procedure Assessment | Procedural Sedation: An Education Review
Pre-procedure Assessment | Procedural Sedation: An Education Review
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What's Next | AVIR CLI Panel
What's Next | AVIR CLI Panel
analogangiogramchapterclinicaldecreasesdistensioneffusionembolizationembolizedembolizingenrollingimagekneemedialmicronMRIpatientpatientsrandomizationrespondrespondersstudysynovialupsize
Ablative Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
Ablative Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
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The Case that Launched the Cornell PERT (PE Response Team) | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
The Case that Launched the Cornell PERT (PE Response Team) | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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The Path Forward | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
The Path Forward | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
chapterembolizationfibroidfibroidsgynecologistgynecologyhysterectomyinterventionalNoneobgynPathophysiologypatientpatientsprocedureproceduresprogramsurgicallyworkup
The Ways to Recanalize the Below the Knee Vessels | AVIR CLI Panel
The Ways to Recanalize the Below the Knee Vessels | AVIR CLI Panel
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Therapies for Acute PE | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Therapies for Acute PE | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
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The Last 5 Years in PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
The Last 5 Years in PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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Clinical Workflow for PET/MRI | PET/MRI: A New Technique to Obtain High Quality Diagnostic Images for Oncology Patients
Clinical Workflow for PET/MRI | PET/MRI: A New Technique to Obtain High Quality Diagnostic Images for Oncology Patients
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Complications & Pitfalls | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
Complications & Pitfalls | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
accessarteryballoonbranchchapterclinicallydeepdefectgramhepaticimagesliverneedleocclusiveperfusionportaportalsegmentalsegmentsstentthrombosestipstracttypicalveinvenous
Transcript

This is a good case of mine,

hes' a 68 year old male. He has alcohol cirrhosis and esophageal varices, he's not a prisoner. But he doesn't speak English, so just putting that out there. He's a child Pugh A5, he had a total bilirubin of 0.7 his AFP was 43

so not indicative, and his ECOG was 0-1 when he saw me for the first time in clinic and this is what his initial CT scan showed, to from my clinic, he had not been followed up appropriately and just came in with a belly ache and they noted this very large mast in his right hepatic lobe.

Further down you can see that the tumor extends more inferiority and you are getting a very avid enhancement of the portal vein and you can see there's some portal vein thrombosis in there. So the arrow is really pointing at what I was reading as an arterial portal shunt. So knowing that this is what you are going to face ahead of time

sort of can help you plan. So arterial portal shunting diagnosis can very often be made on multiphasic CT scans so you know I'm sure you all get those patients that come from an outside hospital with HCC diagnosis and they have one phase of imaging so it's really important to get that multi phase imaging

CT or MRI because you can make these diagnosis. So this group showed that about 15% of patients can be or actually have this and the diagnosis can be made on CT scan and then they just talked about where these arterial portal shunts are about half of them essential or 24 from a peripheral and then 22 of them are mix. So you can't really tell if they're central or peripheral on the CT

imaging. And then how severe are they, 35% are severe. Severe means that on that arterial phase imaging your portal vein is as bright as your aorta. And 41 or about moderate which is you know.

You can imagine what moderate is and then 24 are mild so you just saying it's within the peripheral areas. Interestingly about half of these patients that do have arterial portal shunting also have portal vein thrombus so even if you just have single phase image and you have portal vein thrombus you can sort of start thinking in your head that these patients may have an arterial portal shunt and they actually

went on to get hepatic and angiography, 22 of these patients went on to get hepatic and angiography and of those patients 86% had arterial portal shunting the author said that they probably all had it they just missed it on angiography. So what's the prevalence really there is not a lot of great data on there you see I went all the way back to 97 to see if I could

actually get a prevalence but overall arterial venous shunting. They said it was about 31%. If you had arterial portal shunting or arterial venous shunting of that, 31% of patients that HCC 92% had arterial portal shunting. So what's the treatment?

So as you can imagine we've all come up with creative things we've been at this meeting all week. And, you go into a room and you can imagine everyone's doing these different things. So, if you can find a single feeding vessel, a coil is a great choice

if you can find it. Glue, if you have a network of vessels and you don't think that glue is gonna get stuck proximally to prevent you from treating the tumor eventually. And particle embolization is a good option. You can use large particles if they don't cross over into the shunting

I had a patient that had a large, we'll get to them in a minute, but it was a very bad complication from outside the hospital. And the other thing is you can try lipidol based embolization and that's not well supported in literature but there are case reports talking about it.

So for my treatment planning, because he had portal vein thrombosis I decided that I was gonna go ahead and do a 190 based on the literature. And so, he showed up to the suites and we had planned for the shunt study. So the initial angiography you can see,

as soon as I'm seeing the arterial phase of imaging. And this is seconds after the injector goes. you can see filling that portal vein, the main portal vein.

And you can see, the filling defect within the main portal vein indicating that he had portal vein thrombus. So, this severe arterial portal shunting was noted. I couldn't find a single vessel, it's just this huge network of vessels that was supplying or communicating with

the portal vein I didn't think I could do glue because I was worried that the glue would embolize the proximal artery and I'll never be able to go back in treat it, and because the tumor was in the right hepatic lobe I just wanted to see is there, I have

had a pulmonary shunt as well as the ulterior portal shunt and so I went ahead and infused the MIA. The lung shunt fraction as is very typical was 20%. And so that brings us to hepatopulmonary shunting. How common is this?

Is it a prevalence of overall again arterial venous shunting is 31% and of those hepatopulmonary shunting is much less so it's 8% of those patients. And all patients with HCC they say the prevalence is about 2.4%. Again in my clinic it's probably much higher than that. So the typical shunting in HCC this is Ron Gaver's/g group who talked

about what's the prevalence based on lung shunt fractions they said about 56% of patients are gonna have no lung shunt fractions to less than 10%. 10 to 20% of lung shunt fraction you got 30% of patients with HCC and those higher lung shunt fractions are going to be 14% of your patients that you are treating.

So they also found that there is correlations how can you sort of predict this on imaging sometimes you can't see this hepatic pulmonary shunts on imaging so if you do have an infiltrate of tumor that was correlated with hepatic pulmonary shunting if you had greater than 50% hepatic tumor burden, if you had portal vein thrombosis or

portal vein compression so the tumor is actually pushing on the portal vein you are going to see a higher degree of hepatic pulmonary shunting. If you have arterial portal shunting that's interesting that also correlated with the hepatopulmonary shunting. And if your tumors are hypervascular,

all tumors are hypervascular so that's not gonna be very helpful again how do you treat this? So embolization again if you can see that single feeding vessel that's fantastic and you can do it again glue is possible particle and hepato-based embolization is also then reported. Systemic therapy with Sorafenib has some literature saying that

if you start patients on Sorafenib you can reduce the shunting, this is the case serious with couple of patients, that they showed that the mean shunt fraction in the patients was 26.5 prior to starting Sorafenib therapy, and post sorafenib therapy, went down

to 7.5. But again the time it takes to treat patients with Sorafenib to get those shunts to come down sometimes can be longer than the patient would survive otherwise. And what about if we do the Y90 what if we,

go ahead and do Y90 therapy is there real risk of radiation pneumonitis? So this is out rehabs group and he found that of his 403 patients now these are patients not only with a HCC but all comers 58 of those patients or 14% actually received greater than three gray accumulative lung dose and of those just so I wanted to highlight that HCC population

74% of those patients with those elevated or high lung shunt fractions were actually patients with HCC with sort of a similar to the data that I showed you earlier. And the mean shunt fraction in the HCC patients was 20% and the mean accumulative

of lung dose is 54 Gy to those patients and his report he had no cases of imaging or clinical real issue of pneumonitis. And so you can quote that to your patients that you know a very large series has shown that there's no risk of having any risk issues with the lungs other patients or other series have sort of talked about may be having radiation pneumonitis.

So really the things to consider when I was treating this patient are you have severe arterial portal shunting on the angiogram because we're seeing filling of that main portal vein and now he's also has a hepatic pulmonary shunt which is almost 20% and so do I go on to do Y90? With an arterial portal shunt you have to really think about where

the beads are gonna go so if they cross over into the main portal vein, where are they gonna lodge? So they are gonna lodge any where in the liver and we have started to do or what I've started to do is if you see these large arterial portal shunts you can do CT spect with your MAA and then you can see where the bead is gonna go because that really is a good indicator.

I had a patient a couple of weeks ago that we did that and it actually shunted to the contralateral lobe, so I felt why don't we just treat the whole liver except all of the beads would have got the contralateral lobe not the lobe where the tumor was. So I would have had an effective dose and I would have just cause atrophy of the wrong lobe of the liver.

So that sort of a trick you can think about. With hepatic pulmonary shunting you have to think about can I get a dose high enough to effectively treat the liver without having it just bypass around and go into lungs. And so if that's the case, do I have to worry about this cummulative/g

lung dose? Do I, do I not or can I do some sort of fancy technique in the end of my hepatic vein and do an occlusion during my Y90 administration to get those beads to lodge in, take out the balloon afterwards get an effective treatment.

And really, is it affectatious, do I go ahead and treat and is this gonna affect these patients, appropriately? So again, here's the image this huge tumor. Here's the shunt.

Here's my hepatopulmonary shunt. So, I'll bring my first team question up. [BLANK_AUDIO] So given the clinical and imaging characteristics below, how would you treat the tumor?

Anyone change the words from a monograph. So a, systemic chemotherapy, percutaneous ablation, c, full dose radioembolization d, conventional chemoembolization or e, reduced dose radioembolization.

[BLANK_AUDIO] Good answers. I love it. [LAUGH] I don't think there's a right answer. I chose the answer D,

conventional chemoembolization, and if we can go back to my slide. I said it was incorrect. You can do Sorafenib and I don't think that's the wrong answer it's just a matter of how long are you willing to wait and how often are you gonna re-image these patients to try to shut down their

shunts again. The studies showed that their follow up was up to 270 days, that's almost a year that the patients need to out to be able to get these shunts to shut down. You're never gonna ablate a tumor like this.

It's too big. C. I said is incorrect because the Y90 is gonna disperse throughout the entire liver unless of course you do that spect imaging and then you can sort of determine that it's really gonna go to where you want it to go. So I said I probably wouldn't just go ahead and treat the whole

liver if the patient's is cirrhotic. In the patient that has liver metastasis since they may be willing to or able to tolerate it just depending on how bad your patient's overall liver function is. I thought D was the correct choice,

patient is candidate for conventional chemoembolization. Cuz it really provides treatment while potentially reducing the shunts and allowing the future radioembolization. The other thing I like about lipidal based chemoembolization is you can see it.

So the shunts crosses over, you can see where it's going, so you know if it's going only to the left at the time we can see if it's going only to the right if you're not doing your pre Y90 ahead of time instead of beads where you sort of can't see where they're going and don't really have a good handle on it at the time.

And then C, they've talked about in a literature doing a load of stuff that guys at Stanford published trying to decrease your dosing when you do Y90 and they actually show that it had decreased efficacy of treatment. So that's probably not the best choice according to the literature that we have now.

So I went ahead and I proceeded with TACE I did the lipiodol based TACE. We don't have any support in Wisconsin I think that's probably universal in the United States these days. So I used Doxorubicin and mitomycin I mix my lipiodol thicker so it would get stuck into those blood

vessels so it would trap it so it wouldn't cross over into the portal veins so I did a two to one and sometimes I'll even do a three to one just to get that lipiodol thicken and sludging in instead of just crossing over into the portal vein,

and now embolized into the back end with 3 to 5 PVA. So this is what my angio looked like at the end. It was sort of shocking that we had shut down that shunt with the lipiodol based TACE. We always get CT scans the day following.

I would show you the picture but really, you can't appreciate where the lipiodol is because it's so defused throughout the entire liver, I thought this is never gonna work. I called the medical oncologist and I said can we start the Sorafenib?

And I told the patient and his family I didn't have very good hope that this was going to work but we were gonna try to take care of him. On follow up imaging about a month later, this is what it looked like so you can see that that huge mass is gone,

I thought I had the wrong patient. Study pulled up and then, did you scan the wrong patient? I looked at the other anatomical structures, those were his kidneys,

no, this is this guy. It really melted away that tumor. You can see some residual lipiodol there and he did have a residual viable tumor that you could see. His portal vein thrombus had melted away so that was no longer there and on the arterial phase imaging there was no longer any appreciable

or arterial coral shunting. So we decided why don't we go ahead and repeat the shunt study and see what's happened to the hepatopulmonary shunt and see if that was also effectively treated. This is the second study. I took these pictures and I told my fellow this was the most traumatic

case that I had ever seen in my life and everyone should go back and look at the pre-images because I've never seen this that you have zero arterial portal shunting after one session of TACE, is a very dramatic change in his imaging. I did a CT spin just to

see if I could figure out the distribution of was there anything going to that left hepatic lobe you can see this is residual viable tumor enhancing here and nothing is going to that left hepatic lobe again we did hepato pulmonary, a lung shunt fraction calculations and

it came down to 7.4%. We went on to do a Y90 radio embolization of the right hepatic artery and on seven month follow up the patient is disease free, he has no residual viable tumor he has no portal vein thrombus and he tells me that he prayed and I told him to tell me to whom he prayed

cuz I wanna give that to all of my other patients.

so just a compliment what we everybody's talked about I think a great introduction for diagnosing PID the imaging techniques to evaluate it some of the Loney I want to talk about some of the above knee interventions no disclosures when it sort of jumped into

a little bit there's a 58 year old male who has a focal non-healing where the right heel now interestingly we when he was referred to me he was referred to for me for a woman that they kept emphasizing at the anterior end going

down the medial aspect of the heel so when I literally looked at that that was really a venous stasis wound so he has a mixed wound and everybody was jumping on that wound but his hour till wound was this this right heel rudra category-five

his risk factors again we talked about diabetes being a large one that in tandem with smoking I think are the biggest risk factors that I see most patient patients with wounds having just as we talked about earlier we I started

with a non-invasive you can see on the left side this is the abnormal side the I'm sorry the right leg is the abnormal the left leg is the normal side so you can see the triphasic waveforms the multiphasic waveforms on the left the

monophasic waveforms immediately at the right I don't typically do a lot of cross-sectional imaging I think a lot of information can be obtained just from the non-invasive just from this the first thing going through my head is he

has some sort of inflow disease with it that's iliac or common I'll typically follow within our child duplex to really localize the disease and carry out my treatment I think a quick comment on a little bit of clinicals so these

waveforms will correlate with your your Honourable pencil Doppler so one thing I always emphasize with our staff is when they do do those audible physical exams don't tell me whether there's simply a Doppler waveform or a Doppler pulse I

don't really care if there's not that means their leg would fall off what I care about is if monophasic was at least multiphasic that actually tells me a lot it tells me a lot afterwards if we gain back that multiphase the city but again

looking at this a couple of things I can tell he has disease high on the right says points we can either go PITA we can go antegrade with no contralateral in this case I'll be since he has hide he's used to the right go contralateral to

the left comment come on over so here's the angio I know NGOs are difficult Aaron when there's no background so just for reference I provided some of the anatomy so this is the right you know groin area

right femur so the right common from artery and SFA you have a downward down to the knee so here's the pop so if we look at this he has Multi multi multiple areas of disease I would say that patients that have above knee disease

that have wounds either have to level disease meaning you have iliac and fem-pop or they at least have to have to heal disease typically one level disease will really be clot against again another emphasis a lot of these patients

since they're not very mobile they're not very ambulatory this these patients often come with first a wound or rest pain so is this is a patient was that example anyway so what we see again is the multifocal occlusions asta knows

he's common femoral origin a common femoral artery sfa origin proximal segment we have a occlusion at the distal sfa so about right here past the air-duct iratus plus another occlusion at the mid pop to talk about just again

the tandem disease baloney he also has a posterior tibial occlusion we talked about the fact that angio some concept so even if I treat all of this above I have to go after that posterior tibial to get to that heel wound and complement

the perineal so ways to reach analyze you know the the biggest obstacle here is on to the the occlusions i want to mention some of the devices out there I'm not trying to get in detail but just to make it reader where you know there's

the baiance catheter from atronics essentially like a little metal drill it wobbles and tries to find the path of least resistance to get through the occlusion the cross or device from bard is a device that is essentially or what

I call is a frakking device they're examples they'll take a little peppermint they'll sort of tap away don't roll the hole peppermint so it's like a fracking device essentially it's a water jet

that's pulse hammering and then but but to be honest I think the most effective method is traditional wire work sorry about that there are multiple you know you're probably aware of just CTO wires multi weighted different gramm wires 12

gram 20 gram 30 gram wires I tend to start low and go high so I'll start with the 12 gram uses supporting micro catheter like a cxi micro catheter a trailblazer and a B cross so to look at here the sheath I've placed a sheet that

goes into the SFA I'm attacking the two occlusions first the what I used is the micro catheter about an 1/8 micro catheter when the supporting my catheters started with a trailblazer down into the crossing the first

occlusion here the first NGO just shows up confirmed that I'm still luminal right I want to state luminal once I've crossed that first I've now gone and attacked the second occlusion across that occlusion so once I've cross that

up confirm that I'm luminal and then the second question is what do you want to do with that there's gonna be a lot of discussions on whether you want Stan's direct me that can be hold hold on debate but I think a couple of things we

can agree we're crossing their courageous we're at the pop if we can minimize standing that region that be beneficial so for after ectomy couple of flavors there's the hawk device which

essentially has a little cutter asymmetrical cutter that allows you to actually shave that plaque and collect that plaque out there's also a horrible out there device that from CSI the dime back it's used to sort of really sort of

like a plaque modifier and softened down that plaque art so in this case I've used this the hawk device the hawk has a little bit of a of a bend in the proximal aspect of the catheter that lets you bias the the device to shape

the plaque so here what I've done you there you can see the the the the the teeth itself so you can tell we're lateral muta Liz or right or left is but it's very hard to see did some what's AP and posterior so usually

what I do is I hop left and right I turned the I about 45 degrees and now to hawk AP posterior I'm again just talking left to right so I can always see where the the the the AP ended so I can always tell without the the teeth

are angioplasty and then here once I'm done Joan nice caliber restored flow restored then we attacked the the common for most enosis and sfa stenosis again having that device be able to to an to direct

that device allows me to avoid sensing at the common femoral the the plaque is resolved from the common femoral I then turn it and then attack the the plaque on the lateral aspect again angioplasty restore flow into the common firm on the

proximal SFA so that was the there's the plaque that you can actually obtain from that Hawk so you're physically removing that that plaque so so that's you know that's the the restoration that flow just just you know I did attack the

posterior tibial I can cross that area I use the diamond back for that balloon did open it up second case is a woman

guys do so when we do our screening phone calls and our pre screens before

the actual procedure there's a few factors that we look at for the patients with blood pressure the patient needs to be vitally stable before we do a procedure there may be a slightly increased risk of bleeding for kidney

biopsy if patients are hypertensive although it hasn't been noted to be statistically significant in the literature so we are always aware of patients being hypertensive we do want them to be taking their medications the

day of the procedure we also do a full medication reconciliation with the patient making sure that we're checking on any anti platelets anticoagulant medications and we have a list of our hold times that we use for a reference

we already discussed for those of you who are at this session this morning the issue of liver disease is it stable liver disease they may have adequate he stasis even though their INR is not within the normal range and so we

recommend a stable INR of less than 2.5 for those patients and in our practice a lot of the providers are going away from correcting the INR s for our patients we also screen for hematological disorders do they have some known condition that

makes them more likely to bleed or conversely more likely to clot and that may factor into whether or not anticoagulation can be held do they have a current diagnosis of cancer are they going to be getting one of those

angiogenesis inhibitors might they have thrombocytopenia and we just do a brief review of the patient's chart before we call them to kind of look for those diagnoses do they have a history of bleeding especially if they have no one

platelet dysfunction you know a known history of bleeding can be a reliable predictor of bleeding risk for some patients and do they have a cardiac or a neurological history as we learned this morning patients that have recently had

a cardiac stent placed we can't just say yeah stop your plavix hold off 5 days it'll be fine that could be a very serious risk to the patient did they recently have a stroke have they had a PE why are they on their anticoagulation

if they're on it so we really need to be aware of the whole patient and having that pre-screening phone call with them can allow our nurses to figure out a lot of these problems and then alert the radiologists and try and troubleshoot

before the patient walks in the door and says yeah I took my warfarin this morning I'm all ready for my liver biopsy the radiologists don't like that much in it you know it's really a bad thing for our high volume area to have

that happen and this is just another chart of our oh did I get mixed up here you guys are gonna fire me from running this clicker there we go so the whole times are again based on the half-life and the mechanism of action and this is

pretty similar to what you saw in the the presentation earlier today and specifically that imbruvica that's something that we alert the radiologists who they have a discussion with the patient decide is this something that we

want to continue with and I will say that in our practice with the volume and the the level of acuity of our patients I think that a lot of our providers are fairly comfortable with a certain level of risk because that's just who our

patient population is you know we have a very large hospital two large hospitals and very sick patients so that's something that we you know some of them are more comfortable than others but it's a risk-benefit thing that they have

to decide on themselves with the patient obviously all right so here are our

are there any questions yeah yes that's a really good sure so the question was do you have any rules or guidelines in my institution about how long the procedure can be before you start

talking about anesthesia versus sedation is that right and positioning prone supine we did come up with a guideline with within our department we looked at a little bit of research but honestly was more expert opinion just best

practice and experience I in in general I would say if the procedure is 3 plus hours the patient should know they're going to be on the table not asleep for three plus hours and talk to them about what that means and if they're ok with

that I just think again that comes into setting realistic expectations that's one of the reasons actually that we're very interested in using Dex med otama Dean because that's going to be a better

drug for those longer procedures first was giving functional and versed for four hours it's just not it's not appropriate but you know and some people would say we'll just get an anesthesiologist them but a lot of these

patients are really thick so in our institution anesthesia is just really super regulated and they require all of these clearances for their involvement no matter what they're giving sometimes they'll require all these clearances and

they give exactly what we were going to give so you know it's it's really a juggling act I would say in our department we really just make sure the patient knows what the expectation is and then we'll usually say to the

provider to if if something goes like if anything looks a little concerning during the case we're stopping and they have to be ok with that and they are they really are but that took a lot of work to get everybody on board with that

type of communication yeah we don't know so they I know I think Sloane is anyone here from Sloane no I think Sloane has with dedicated anesthesiologists they work really closely with them and it's easier for

them to get cases scheduled they will give us they will assign us an anesthesiologist for the day but if we don't have any anesthesia cases they get reassigned somewhere in the o.r and it's a different analysis every time it tends

to be the same group some are stricter than others some will have a patient say I really want anesthesia and we can call up the provider and there they say no problem let me do a quick chart review whereas the next day the provider goes

no absolutely not send them for clearances that's a little tricky yeah right so what I showed you is from the american society of anesthesiology i am not affiliated with them at all i just think they bide non anesthesiologist

sedation so i rely heavily on what they say and they recommend waiting till peak effects so i would look at the pharmacokinetics so for versed it's 3 to 5 minutes so i would wait at least 3 minutes before your readmit a stirring I

think a good example with that is when diazepam with the sedative of choice the on the peak effect for diazepam is 1 minute so when midazolam came onto the market there were a lot of adverse outcomes

with patients because providers administering it weren't familiar with the pharmacokinetics and assumed that the peak effect for versed was the same for diazepam so in theory you could give a patient in 5 minutes 5 milligrams of

versed so by the time that fully hits them they could be in a negative 5 on your raft scale so you know just look at those pharmacokinetics look at that peak effect and I would use that to drive your dosing scheme Atlee that's what I

do and I think since we've done that we've seen better meet info cities and better safety outcomes yes okay yeah we don't do that we do one thing with uterine fibroid embolization swear they'll do a superior mesenteric block

but otherwise we don't do any other type of regional blocks but I have read about that I think that's really are the IR providers giving the block okay right I've seen two with uterine fibroid embolization we'll do an epidural in

advance some I think some institutions or some literature exists about that it's interesting it would be interesting if the IR providers could actually give it though I'm not sure if that's kosher in the anesthesia world but they're

certainly qualified to do it they they do already kind of do it really but so I mean that's certainly something interesting and if you have a provider that is comfortable taking that on and their institution I think it's worth

looking at because anything that's sort of I think mixes things up and and provides a different Avenue especially for high-risk patients is worth looking into definitely yes I believe it yeah

mm-hm right so I'll just repeat what she said so just jumping on the talk about blocks so in her institution they the providers to administer blocks and I think you said

coleus estas Tamizh and PTC's and biliary dream placements they'll use that and it will decrease the amount of sedation that's required sedation being versed and fentanyl that's required during the case which like yes like you

said is really great for patients who are already on opioids previously and habit aller ins yes [Music] something right so we again he left same provider though had a patient on Groupon

or Fein and it was our first experience within about a year ago and it was terrible and she did not have realistic expectations going in of how sedated she would be and she was very very unhappy

afterwards so we talked a lot about that and in that guideline I had mentioned that we made about when we involve anesthesia and when we don't there's a caveat about that that says that if a patient is on

methadone or buprenorphine that a discussion needs to take place making them aware that they will probably not feel very sedated but we will try our best and if they're not comfortable with that we reschedule the procedure with

anesthesia but they have to know going into it that they they may not feel completely sedated and we just keep that open and honest communication but we haven't really come up with a scheme of what's best we did actually try with her

we had her come in one day having taken her buprenorphine the day of the procedure and she seemed okay with that and then we tried having her go off of it so that the receptors wouldn't be blocked she was not happy with that

experience so that's really when a person like that probably would do great with propofol but we can't give propofol so you know if the and if the patient tells us no then we just reschedule with the anesthesia

right - hmm right right right you could at least if they're if they're on an opioid uh if they're on people nor Fein then in theory they should respond to the verse said you could go heavier hand it on the

versed just to get them sedated but they will probably still feel pain but it they hopefully won't remember it that's true I you know with the Richmond agitation sedation scale that's not going to fit every patient that's a

really good point I gave a patient seven of versed during an adrenal vein sampling and she was just talking my ear off I got I fed are you okay you know do you need me to give you anything else no no I'm good I'm good and then I wheeled

her out we got her in the recovery area and she goes sit over I said yeah she said wow I don't I don't remember anything the power of her said that that was like a true and music effect I hadn't seen that so strongly in a

patient before but if you if I had done you know I was documenting that she was a zero it looked like I wasn't doing much for her but then I was putting comments you know patient comfortable denying needing any more sedation so

won't fit every patient so it is good to look at that but yeah as far as the buprenorphine I mean it's it's it's tough yeah if they have an addiction specialist I would say talk to them and they might be

able to come up with a scheme that works for them and if there's a lot of pain expected afterwards those patients are gonna have to be on parenteral opioid therapy they'll probably have to stay you know if you're in a hospital they

would have to stay overnight so those are all things you have to consider yeah yes hmm yeah I'm like it so Adam and Alexa are nurse practitioners that we work with and I'm looking at Adam because

this is actually was a very hot topic for us in the last six months so we actually cheat we met with our sedation committee that's run by that in a physiologist who's blocking us from using pres of X and discuss with him

that in the protocol that guides our practice it's said that you did the timeout and then gave sedation but Ari anesthesiologists don't do that right so they intubate the patient and everything and then and they and then the provider

comes in and does the timeout right before the puncture or incision so we talked about to him about how well if we're gonna do the latency to peak effect it's not enough time right so we do now bring the patient in and start

sedation right away our orders are put in in advance I know some by the attending or the Li P so we have a PRN dose and with an a certain number of occurrences and a titrate to a certain Ross scale

yes yeah so and that our anesthesiologist mentions that our providers are present but it's it's a certain use of the language I think it might be like direct observation or immediately available and our providers

are immediately available it's up to your hospital so our profit our providers aren't like down the street on their way in to work with coffee and street clothes and we're sedating they're they're just down the hall maybe

or the way our department looks is we have a control area and it's like the you know the Central Station and you can see all of the rooms so they might be in the Central Station but just haven't gone in to do the time out yet that

being said I always talk to them before I bring the patient in and say what's the goal Rath and I address any concerns that I have and I think people think I'm a little kooky when I do that for every case but it I think it works really well

and I think the providers really like it so we just already start from the Gecko our line of communication I tell them the patient seems really anxious this is my plan what do you think agree disagree yes the procedural if does the procedure

list or the Lak but I've sedated the patient so the patient if you look at what Jayco describes in the universal protocol it's ideal if they can participate in the timeout however not required because then when they do the

timeout they're right there stabbing them with lidocaine so I like to you know I mean I would argue that by starting I would argue about that by starting at the sedation earlier and getting the patient into a comfortable

state you're more safe because you're doing the dosing appropriately according to the a sa yeah correct right right right

okay I think it's important to say though it's not about getting around Joint Commission this is what Joint Commission says you may feel uncomfortable with it and that's okay

but it is what our accrediting body says is okay we're also not intimating the patient and paralyzing them like an Asst the anesthesiologist is now having said that it's not like we walk the patient in and we go oh I think you're mr. Jones

we throw you on the table there is an initial timeout that's done with the nurse and the technologist and the other people in the room shaking his head yes as so the acceptable amount of time after reversal

yes so if it happens if it happens mid procedure you need to it's I believe the language the a sa uses that you have to have a discussion amongst the care team about whether or not you're going to proceed if it happens after the

procedure in the recovery area or it happens mid procedure and you abort then it has to be at least two hours before you discharge that patient or move them back to their unit where they came from because of that recitation effect and

because you can have really adverse effects from sedation like flumazenil can cause serious delirium I had a patient like that one time it was it was awful and it can cause serious cardiac arrhythmia so at least two hours if you

continue with the procedure I would just make sure everyone knows that you have to be really careful with recitation effects and and all of the adverse effects that you'd be looking at yes I think one more question I'm sorry

with hyperkalemia I have come across I want to say it was in perioperative guidelines when I was looking at the labs that we do cuz we do a lot of unnecessary labs in our department you guys might - I feel like we just really

overdo it I believe the perioperative recommendations are to check a serum potassium if the patient has a reason to have hyperkalemia however right if their hyperkalemic and

they develop a cardiac arrhythmia you know could hypoxia also precipitate that cardiac arrhythmia the results from the hyperkalemia maybe I just went in I wouldn't take an ounce

I would I would consider hyperkalemia severe hyperkalemia and unstable patient because that patient could go into a fatal arrhythmia so I would correct that before you bring them into an elective Percy what's often an elective procedure

so if you're doing a fistula gram you know right five point yeah why are we will go up to five point eight we personally will go up to five point eight because a lot of times they're hyperkalemic

because they're fish too less clothes now and we need to open it right so just again it I don't think there's ever going to be any hard and fast data that you see it's all about making sure everyone knows this patient has a serum

potassium of five point eight we're going to be really closely watching the ECG monitoring yeah thank you everyone thank you so much [Applause]

quick I did want to mention t-carr briefly and try to get you guys closer to back on time this is a hybrid procedure this is combining the surgical procedure we talked about first and carotid stenting it takes combined

carotid exposure at the base of the clavicle or just above the clavicle and reverses blood flow just like we talked about but tastes slightly different technique or approach to doing this and then you put the stent in from a drug

carotid access here's the components of the device right up by the neck there is where the incision is made just above the clavicle and you have this sheet that's about eight French in size that only goes in about us to 2 cm or 1 and a

half cm overall into the vessel and then that sheath is sutured to the the chest wall and then it's got a side arm that goes what's labeled number six here is this flow reversal urn enroute neuroprotection kit it reverses the

blood flow and then you get a femoral sheath in the vein right in the common femoral vein and you reverse the blood flow so this is a case a picture from our institution up on the right is the patient's neck and that's the carotid

exposure and the initial sheath is in place so the sidearm of that sheath is the enroute protection system which is going up up at the top of the image there we're gonna back bleed that let that sidearm of that sheath continue to

bleed up to the very top and then connect that to the common femoral venous sheet that we have in place there's a stepwise of that and then ultimately what we see at the end of the procedure is that filter inside that

little canister can be interrogated after and you can see the debris this is in the box D here on the bottom left the debris that we captured during the flow reversal and this is a what we call a passive and then active flow reversal

system so once the system is in place the direct exposure carotid sheath in place the flow controller and AV shunt in place you see the direction of blood flow so now all that blood flow in that common carotid artery is going reverse

direction and so when you place a sheath or wire and and ultimately through that sheath up by the carotid artery there's no risk for distal embolization because everything is flowing in Reverse here's a couple

case examples ferns from our institution this is a patient who had a symptomatic critical greater than 90% stenosis has tandems to nose he's so one proximal at the origin and one a little bit more distal we you can see the little

retractors down at the base of the image there in the sheath that's essentially the extent of the sheath from the bottom of that image into the vessel only about a cm or two post angioplasty instant patient tolerated that quite well here's

another 71 year-old asymptomatic patient greater than 90% stenosis pretty calcified lesion a little more extensive than maybe with the CT shows there's the angiography and then ultimately a post stent placement using the embolic

protection device and overall the trials have shown good good safety met profile overall compared to carotid surgery so it's a minimum minimal exposure not nearly as large the risk of stroke is less because you're not mucking around

up there you're using the best of a low profile system with flow reversal albeit with a mini surgical exposure overall we've actually have an abstract or post trip this year's meeting this is just a snapshot of that you can check it out

this is our one year experience we've had comparable low complication rates overall in our experience so in summary

questions comments and accusations please hello this topic is very personal to me I've had it actually had a UFE so this is like one of my big things I work in the outpatient center as well as a

hospital where we perform you Effy's and frequently the radiologist will have me go in and talk to the patient it's from a personal perspective one of the issues which it may just have been from my situation was pain control post UFE

whether you normally tell your patients about pain control after the UFE someone say we are all struggling with this yeah oh it's not what's your question is going to be okay good I'm gonna get doctor Dora to answer Shawn the question

is what do you what do we do with this pain issue you know what are you doing for the home there at Emory there you know and a lot of practices we we don't rely on one magic bullet for pain control recently we've been doing

alternate procedures for two adjunctive procedures to help with pain control for example there are nerve blocks that you can do like a superior hypogastric nerve block there's there's Tylenol that can be given intravenously which is seems to

be a little more effective than by mouth there's there's a you know it and a lot of times it's it's a delicate balance right between pain post procedural pain because you can often get the pain well controlled with with narcotics opioid

with a pain pump but the problem is 12 hours later the patients is extremely nauseous and that's what keeps her in the hospital so it's a it's a balance between pain control and nausea you can you can hit the nausea

beforehand using a pain and scopolamine patch that that'll get built up in the system during the procedure and that kind of obviates the nausea issues like I said that the the nerve blocks the the tile and also there are some other

medicines that can can be used adjunctive leaf or for pain control in addition to to the to the opioids so the answer the question is there are multiple there multiple answers to the question there's not one magic bullet so

that helped it did one of the things that I tell the patients is that you know everyone is different and yet some people I've seen patients come out and they have no pain they're like perfect and then some come out and they are

writhing in the bed and they're hurting and they're rolling all around what and I always ask the acid docs are you telling them they could possibly have you know pain after the procedure because some have the expectation that

I'm going to be pain-free and that's not always the case so they have an unrealistic expectation that I'm gonna have the UFE but not have pain what I also tell them is that the pain it's kind of like an investment right and

this is easy for a guy to say that right but but it's it's an investment the worst part the worst pain you should be feeling is the first 12 12 hours or so every day I tell my patient you're gonna be getting better and better and better

with far as the pain as long as you is you follow our little cookbook of medicines that we give you on the way home and I want you to make sure that you fill these prescriptions on the way home or you have someone fill those

prescriptions for you before he or she picked you up in the hospital and lately we have been and I see that you're there as well lots of other little tricks that are out there right and again there are all

little tricks so ensure arterial lidocaine doctor there is near alluded to and if you're on si R Connect you may it may spill over on some of your chat rooms here people have been using like muscle relaxant like flexural or

robertson with some success but just know that we don't have any studies that tell us how that's supposed to do so when i have someone that is like writhing in pain i just use everything so i do it superior hypogastric nerve

vlog and i actually will do some intra-arterial lidocaine although not so much lately i have been using the muscle relaxant but i will warn you that i've had two patients with extreme anticholinergic effects where they are

now not able to pee from that so you know where we're doing that balance act I see that you're there can I take that question here first just so we're we're doing the same thing we're using the multimodal just throwing all these

things at people and we're trying the superior hypogastric blocks but we're collaborating with anesthesia to do that right now do you all do your own blocks or do you collaborate with anesthesia we do our own blocks okay it isn't it is

not that difficult I would tell you that but again it's kind of like you know you got to do if you start feeling better and then you're like we don't really need them we'll just do it on our own okay thank you again yes what's the

acceptable interval between UFE and for IBF oh that's a your question what is the interval between UFE and IVF so if you wanted to get pregnant yeah and can you have a you Fe and then have an IVF like how long would you have to wait

wait and tell you before you can have that the IBF it I guess it really depends on the age of the patient because we know that that the threshold for which patient tend to have that inability to conceive

is around 45 years old so you know it did below the you know below the age of 45 the risk of causing ovarian failure or or the inability to conceive is significantly less it's zero zero to three percent so I would say that you

know you probably want the effects of the fibroid embolization to two to take effect it takes around 12 months for these fibroids to shrink down to their most weight that they're gonna they're going to shrink down the most I wouldn't

say you need to wait 12 months to put our nine vitro fertilization there's no good there's no good literature out there I don't believe that's your next and so I would say just remember that if you came to my practice and you said you

wanted to get pregnant I will be sending you to talk to fertility specialists beforehand we do not perform embolization procedures as a way to become pregnant there's no data to support that but if you saw your

gynecologist and they said let's do this then I'm sure they'll be doing lots of adjunct things to figure out what would be an ideal time then to for you to have IVF and if I dove not having any data to inform me I would ask you to wait a year

and what will be the effect of those hormones that they gave you if for example a patient has existing fibroids what would be the effect of those hormones that IVF doctors prescribed their patients yeah so fibroids actually

can grow during pregnancy so I would say that most of those hormones are pro fertility hormones so I would expect that maybe you can see some of that effect as well yeah alright if you have any other questions you can grab me oh

you're I'm sorry go with it okay yes we we have time I don't want to keep anybody here for that so I have a two-fold question the first one is post-procedure can you use a diclofenac patch or a 12-hour pain

patch that is a an NSAID have you have any experience with that and your next question my second part of the question is there a patient profile or a psychological profile that tips you that the patient is not going to be able to

candidate because of their issues around pain so they're two separate but we have in success sending people home that first day so I'm looking to just make it better I haven't had experience with the Clos

phonetic patch it's in theory it seems ok you know these are all the these are they're all these are non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs so there are different potency levels for all of them they you know they range from very low

with with naproxen to to a little bit higher with toradol like that clover neck I think is somewhere in between so we found that at least I found that that q6 our our tour at all it tends to help a lot so with that said I I don't have

much experience with it with the patch in answer to your second question the only thing I can say is there there is a strong correlation between size of fibroids and the the amount of a post procedural pain and post embolization

syndrome so there really you know we often say we don't really care too much about the number of fibroids but the size of the fibroid is is is should be you know you should you should look at that on pre procedural imaging because

if it gets too big it may not be worth it for the patient because they may be in severe pain the more embolic you put into the blood supply's applying the the fibroid the the greater the pain post procedural pain

are there multiple other factors that would contribute to pain but that's that's one aspect you can you can look at post procedurally on imaging okay thank you very much yes ma'am hi what what kind of catheter do you use

to catheterize the fibroid artery when you pass by radio access yeah so over the last three years the companies have been really very good about that so there are a few things that I without endorsing one company or the other that

you need to make sure that the sheath that you're using is one of those radial sheets a company that makes a radio sheath you should not use a femoral sheath for radial access so no cheating where that's concern you may get away

with it once or twice but it will catch up to you and you need a catheter that is long enough to go from the radio to the to the groin so I'm looking for like a 120 or 125 centimeter kind of angled catheter whether it's hydrophilic the

whole way or just a hydrophilic tip or not at all you can you can choose which one in our practice most of us still tend to use a micro catheter through that catheter although if I'm using a for French and good glide calf and it

just flips into like a nice big juicy uterine artery then I may just go ahead and take that and do the embolization if the fellow is not scrubbed in as well so thanks a lot but they make they make many different kinds like that and more

of those are to come all right I'm you can please please please send us any other questions that you have thanks for your time and attention and enjoy the rest of the living

blasian it's well tolerated and folks with advanced pulmonary disease there's a prospective trial that showed that

there are pulmonary function does not really change after an ablation but the important part here is a lot of these folks who are not candidates for surgical resection have bad hearts a bad coronary disease and bad lungs to where

a lot of times that's actually their biggest risk not their small little lung cancer and you can see these two lines here the this is someone who dr. du Puy studied ablation and what happens if you recur and how your survival matches that

and turns out that if you recur and in if you don't actually a lot of times this file is very similar because these folks are such high risk for mortality outside or even their cancer so patient selection is really important for this

where do we use it primary metastatic lesions essentially once we feel that someone is not a good surgical candidate and they have maintained pulmonary function they have a reasonable chance for surviving a long

time we'll convert them to being an ablation candidate here's an example of a young woman who had a metastatic colorectal met that was treated with SPRT and it continued to grow and was avid so you can see the little nodule

and then the lower lobe and we paste the placement prone and we'd Vance a cryo plugs in this case of microwave probe into it and you turn off about three to five minutes and it's usually sufficient to burn it it cavitate s-- afterwards

which is expected but if you follow it over time the lesion looks like this and you say okay fine did it even work but if you do a PET scan you'll see that there's no actually activity in there and that's usually pretty definitive for

those small lesions like that about three centimeters is the most that will treat in a lot of the most attic patients but you can certainly go a little bit larger here's her follow-up actually two years

that had no recurrence so what do you do when you have something like this so this is encasing the entire left upper lobe this patient underwent radiation therapy had a low area of residual activity we followed it and it turns out

that ended up being positive on a biopsy for additional cancer so now we're playing cleanup which is that Salvage I mentioned earlier we actually fuse the PET scan with the on table procedural CT so we know which part of all that

consolidated lung to target we place our probes and this is what looks like afterwards it's a big hole this is what happens when you microwave a blade previously radiated tissue having said that this

was a young patient who had no other options and this is the only side of disease this is probably an okay complication for that patient to undergo so if you follow up with a PET scan three months later there's no residual

activity and that patient actually never recurred at that site so what about

so this is our MGH page we started it about a year ago check it out if you guys like it some pretty good cases we mostly post cases some policy stuff industry and changing things it's not purely cases but certainly take a look if you like it give us a follow so what

I have today is I have two cases that I picked and you know for all the thousands of cases that all these huge academic medical centers do I tried to pick a couple that might be a little interesting and that aren't being done

in all the different centers across the institution so I'll start off with the first which is an endovascular AVF creation so what's nice about this is that you know what we see so far from this is that the length of stay impact

has been certainly reduced in certainly the maturation times and the Rhian turn re intervention rates have been reduced so I'll go through this and normally wouldn't go step by step for a few things but I think you know not all

institutions are doing this yet I think that you will I do think this is going to be a shift for a lot of the dialysis patients and everybody who works anion knows what a huge impact it is the ESRD patients is just astronomical the

numbers of them it's just continuing to rise so procedural steps the first step is you're going to access the brachial vein advance the guide Y down to the ulna insert a six French sheath and perform a vena Graham and the rationale

for that of course is to make sure you don't have any issues centrally some centers do that in advance some centers don't I will mention also that the ultrasound mapping is absolutely critical to make sure that

you get the right patient you start off by seeing them in the outpatient clinic and then you're going to go and have them have vascular ultrasound to make sure you have a good candidate so the next is you're gonna access the brachial

artery same thing advance your guide wire down to the ulna from there you're gonna insert the venous side now this is one of two approved vendors that will allow you to do an endovascular creation this was a wave link it's a to stick

system and it requires two catheters which is why you see the next step is pretty much repeated but just flipping it to the arterial side so from there there's a magnetic zone it actually has like a little canoe so it's got a

backing of a ceramic sort of a space there if you can think of sort of the older or atherectomy cut home catheters that had that little carro canoe you would actually take the debris out it's very

look into that and I'll show you that in a couple of images once you align that you're gonna sort of engage the little electrode this is an RF ablation RF created type fistula so it creates a little slit between the Adri and the

vein and what happens is is that you know of course don't forget you have to ground the patient just like any RF once you get the magnets and you get the electrode alignment you're going to engage the device for two seconds and

the fistula is created and then from there a lot of centers are actually going in there embolize in one of the brachial veins and this is basically to sum some of that stuff obviously to the superficial system for draining I have

read that there are a few places that actually go back back in through the newly-created fistula like even at the time of the procedure with the 4 millimeter balloon and just sort of open that up I'm not sure that that's 100%

necessary but I'm sure all these fine people on the panel could help us with that so here you see and I skipped all the entry steps but here you can see the Venus in the arterial catheter you know in position here and there's that little

canoe thing pointed out by the arrow that I had talked about and you use fluoro to sort of align these two things when you first start doing these cases take your time the first one was over an hour and a half for us now obviously

it's about a third at that time this is the little electrode this is when it's advanced and pretty much ready to engage can you play the video for me so this is quick so what happens is you suppress the

device the electrode actually advances and as it advances towards the veena side what happens is is that it actually just creates this fistula through the RF sort of energy from there you're gonna do a post vena graph in here you can see

after we did an initial post intagram there was enough sort of flow between the PIAT brachial so we decided to embolize one and this patient was our first patient and is doing very well so far this is done on I'm gonna say just

because you know to dr. brains point I don't want to get on the hook for certain dates and patient identification but this was done in mid-march so we saw them two weeks out and we're gonna see them again another couple weeks so just

there's a couple of trials that you can read into one is the neat one is the flex trial I think the technical success is really promising at 96% the maturation days you can see there's a massive massive comparison where they

could be ready to be dialyzed in 60 days and this could be a game-changer for many patients the six-month patency rate is what I've seen in most of the reports it's around 98% compared to about 50% with the surgical place and then you can

see that this about 3.5 interactions or re interventions that are required in about 0.5 at a year's time out from this so it's really making a big difference for these patients and I think this is what we do in i/o we continue advanced

things innovate and obviously look to do things in a more timely cost-effective minimally invasive way at the beginning when these new procedures come out the devices themselves might be at a higher price point but we'll see how that goes

moving forward as more and more vendors get into the space so the second case

to talk about is indirect angiography this is kind of a neat trick to suggest to your intervention list as a problem solver we were asked to ablate this lesion and it looked kind of funny this patient had a resection for HCC they

thought this was a recurrence so we bring the comb beam CT and we do an angio and it doesn't enhance so this is an image here of indirect port ography so what you can do is an SMA run and see at which point along the

run do you pacify the portal vein and you just set up your cone beam CT for that time so you just repeat your injection and now your pacifying the entire portal vein even though you haven't selected it and what to show

well this was a portal aneurysm after resection with a little bit of clot in it the patient went on some aspirin and it resolved in three months so back to our first patient what do you do for someone who has HCC that's invading the

heart this patient underwent 2y 90s bland embolization microwave ablation chemotherapy and SBRT and he's an eight-year survivor so it's one of those things where certainly with the correct patient selection you can find the right

things to do for someone I think that usually our best results come from our interdisciplinary consensus in terms of trying to use the unique advantages that individual therapies have and IO is just one of those but this is an important

lesson to our whole group that you know a lot of times you get your best results when you use things like a team approach so in summary there are applications to IO prior to surgery to make people surgical candidates there are definitive

treatments ie your cancer will be treated definitively with curative intent a lot of times we can save when people have tried cure intent and weren't able to and obviously to palliate folks to try to buy them time

and quality of life thermal ablation is safe and effective for small lesions but it's limited by the adjacent anatomy y9t is not an ischemic therapy it's an ablative therapy you're putting small ablative radioactive particles within

the lesion and just using the blood supply as a conduit for your brachytherapy and you can use this as a new admin application to make people safer surgical candidates when you apply to the entire ride a panic globe

thanks everyone appreciate it [Applause] [Music]

we're gonna move on to embolization there a couple different categories of embolization bland embolization is when

you just administering something that is choking off the blood supply to the tumor and that's how it's going to exert its effect here's a patient with a very large metastatic renal cell lesion to the humerus this is it on MRI this is it

per angiogram and this patient was opposed to undergo resection so we bland embolized it to reduce bleeding and I chose this one here because we used sequentially sized particles ranging from 100 to 200 all

the way up to 700 and you can actually if you look closely can see sort of beads stacked up in the vessel but that's all that it's doing it's just reducing the blood supply basically creating a stroke within the tumor that

works a fair amount of time and actually an HCC some folks believe that it were very similar to keep embolization which is where at you're administering a chemo embolic agent that is either l'p hi doll with the chemo agent suspended within it

or drug eluting beads the the Chinese have done some randomized studies on whether or not you can also put alcohol in the pie at all and that's something we've adopted in our practice too so anything that essentially is a chemical

outside of a bland agent can be considered a key mobilization so here's a large segment eight HCC we've all been here before we'll be seeing common femoral angiogram a selective celiac run you can make sure

the portals open in that segment find the anterior division pedicle it's going to it select it and this is after drug living bead embolization so this is a nice immediate response at one month a little bit of gas that's expected to be

within there however this patient had a 70% necrosis so it wasn't actually complete cell death and the reason is it's very hard to get to the absolute periphery of the blood supply to the tumor it is able to rehab just like a

stroke can rehab from collateral blood supply so what happens when you have a lesion like this one it's kind of right next to the cod a little bit difficult to see I can't see with ultrasound or CT well you can go in and tag it with lip

Idol and it's much more conspicuous you can perform what we call dual therapy or combination therapy where you perform a microwave ablation you can see the gas leaving the tumor and this is what it looks like afterwards this patient went

to transplant and this was a complete pathologic necrosis so you do need the concept of something that's ablative very frequently to achieve that complete pathologic necrosis rates very hard to do that with ischemia or chemotherapy

alone so what do you do we have a

criteria for CTF means that the patient has a mean pulmonary arterial pressure which we measure intraoperatively exceeding 25 millimeters mercury at rest with the mean pulmonary capillary wedge pressure less than 15 so I'm not a

cardiologist but what that means to me is a mean capillary pulmonary wedge pressure less than 15 means that their left heart is not failing so if you have a capillary wedge pressure higher than 15 that means your left heart is not

working correctly and you can't blame it on the CTF so you can't blame it on the right side if the left side isn't working other things that matter are the abnormal pulmonary vascular resistance and having a systolic pulmonary artery

pressure greater than 40 so what I want to show you and highlight is the law the lost art of pulmonary angiography which i think is now sort of again a lost art some places do a lot of it and some places don't do very much but diagnostic

pulmonary angiography is actually the gold standard in the planning of either surgery or medical management for patients with CTF we do we do these on almost all of our patients with CTF to make that decision with the surgeons and

the cardiologists so the utility is very it's very useful you're able to measure our pressure you're able to decide whether we're the where the thrombus exists in this image here in patients with disease in the

blue and yellow outlined areas those are the patients who can have the operation the operation is curative it's not just medication that you have to take for the rest of your life you can actually remove that chronic clot it's much like

a femoral endarterectomy that are done for patients with peripheral arterial disease although it's a lot more complicated because they have to crack your chest open what's important is getting very very

good high-quality pulmonary angiogram xand so we do we used to do about we do about a hundred of these a year where I trained or actually where I work now and you get very magda up views and you're gonna show all of the vessels and so

these are the views that we use at our institution they happen to be the pipette criteria so it's the same thing you used to do for acute PE you put a flush catheter in the main pulmonary arteries when you're looking at the

upper lobes and when you're looking at the lower lobes you want to push the catheter further into the pulmonary arteries and inject usually what I do is a two to three second injection so that you can stack the images very well and

show all of them in one view this allows your surgeon to make a decision easily as to whether they can operate or they can't operate on this and then I use a higher frame rate usually because these patients are wide awake we when we do

this case we give our patients twenty five mics of fentanyl one time and that's it just to help get the sheath in I usually do this with a seven French sheath and then use a flush cap pulmonary artery catheter many of which

are currently off the market but when we do this we just give them that twenty five Mike's because they have to hold their breath and I usually go up to a high frame rate in the first run and then adjust based off of how well that

patient is holding their breath this really takes a team effort from our nursing technologists and the and the physicians in the room to make sure that this patient does a good job because it's gonna change their management so

there are a lot of different types of angiographic findings on one of these pulmonary angiogram they're really really interesting pulmonary angiogram zin these patients and they're sometimes not at all subtle so you're looking for

a pruning of distal vessels if we start in the top left where you're just not seeing the Brent normal branch pattern you look for stenosis so we're not usually used to looking at stenosis and the pulmonary arteries but this is

actually what you're looking for in CTF you're looking for webs or bands so you'll usually see little areas where you just doesn't look like there's great opacification there's little areas that there's not good at pacification those

are little webs inside the vessel believe it or not looks like a cobweb that grew inside there from that thrombus and then you're looking for areas of complete occlusion that there's just no vessels there those are all

vessels that can be treated in patients with CTF so this is the Jameson classification before we talk about the sort of the interventional management the surgical management is again the curative and dr. Jameson is the head

surgeon at University of California in San Diego which is the largest Palm CTF program in the in the world and he's done I think over 3 500 of these operations I think he's retired at this point but they named the classification

after him and so type 1 is proximal disease so it involves the main pulmonary arteries these are the ideal patients who can get the best benefit from this in their life type 2 is the next best

it's segmental proximal just type 3 is distal segmental and then type 4 is just a mess of sort of all of it but you can't really get a good surgical plane so type 1 and 2 are treated with pulmonary thromboembolism

towards balloon pulmonary angioplasty or BPA and type 4 are generally treated with medication so PT II or pulmonary

so these are a lot of slides most limited you know I'm talking I'm talking to you guys I'm talking showing you a lot of technical stuff you know and a lot of slides and I'm gonna talk mostly technical of you know how tips and dips are done kind of a step by step so even

the title it's kind of a workshop step by step of how basically you do you do tips and dips and what and and what are they so in general when you have when you have this is basically kind of out flow spleen spleen dumps blood into the

portal vein the mesentery dumps blood into the portal vein portal vein goes into liver liver does its thing and then dumps the blood into the eppadi veins to the right atrium okay for that because the liver is connected with the spleen

and the guts in series unlike any other organ basically the liver has to be a low-resistance organ because the portal circulation is low-pressure look the liver has to be a low-resistance organ with liver disease especially liver

cirrhosis you actually get increased resistance and in the liver with that disease and you get basically a backup of the blood flow in the portal circulation and increases the pressure in the portal circulation that's kind of

the genesis of or the pathogenesis of portal hypertension backing up circulation the spleen and in the guts then you get ascites and hydra thorax that's kind of think of it as weeping of fluid into the pleural space and into

the and into the perineum part of it is oncotic part of is osmotic basically think of it nutritional and pressure driven causes at the same time we all have potential portosystemic connections in other words they're there but they're

not connected or they're not opened up in plumbing they hold them bleed valves or pressure valves when the pressure is high and you know they start weeping or leaking you know in your in your basements we have the same thing

we have so many portosystemic connections there are about 55 named ones there are innumerable ones that are actually that are actually not named the common ones that we know are because of because of bleeding is esophageal

varices that's the connection usually between the left gastric vein and the azekah can be hazardous system you can also get gastric varices and that's usually connecting between a spleen and the left renal vein through a gas renal

shunts you can get also all sorts of connections even down in the internal hemorrhoids we get actually portal hypertension hemorrhoids and bleeding and so many numerous other shunts that we just don't have time to cut to cover

it to cover all these so the general to the general thought of treating all these complications of portal hypertension is to decompress the system to reduce the pressure and that's along the lines of years and decades of

surgery shunts that were placed and now tips ism largely replaced all these surgical shunts with the exception of Vancouver and Tampa okay that they still do some surgical actually a lot of surgical shunts most most other places

in North America converge to a tip to a tip shunt the the advantage of the tips of over surgical shunts is the usual what we hear is minimally invasive it you know it's a quick recovery less morbidity and mortality areason for

white tips has beaten the surgical shunts is the transplant era all these surgical shunts are actually extrahepatic so when you go for a transplants and liver hits the buckets they actually have to go and shut down

these shunts wherever they created them steena renal portal cable in the tips it goes out with a liver in the bucket so there's no complication of transplantation that's the real advantage of tips over surgical shunts

and that's why it's become very very prevalent in in in North America with a transplant error when approaching gastric varices just briefly another way is a BRT Oh which is to go basically into the left renal vein go up the shunt

and specifically screw rows the stomach and that's not the that's not this kind of subject of our of our discussion here I'm gonna talk to you

so who are the most ideal candidates for fibroid embolization obviously I would say the most ideal candidates are patients that are symptomatic and I've told you already that 80% of black women

have fibroids but guess what only half of those will be so symptomatic that they would need to be even treated so just because fibroids exist don't mean that they need to actually be treated already so you

to actually have symptoms most patients that are symptomatic will again wait to getting treatment for like three and a half to five years but when they come we want to make sure that they're symptomatic and that they're not trying

to become pregnant and I know somebody in the audience has a question around that already so let's hold your high horses I'm coming to that how about patients that don't want to have surgery or just don't have time to

have surgery they don't have time for long recovery if you don't care if you have your uterus or not then I'm not so sure that you need to be pursuing a uterine sparing procedure okay and I'm gonna pause here to address one other

thing that it's a myth it is a myth that if you do not need to have children then you do not need your uterus I beg to differ and when we talk to women they are quite upset about this preposition that the uterus is only there for

baby-making purposes in fact there have been several studies now that have come out to say that women that have had early hysterectomy even with their ovaries in place are predisposed to coronary artery disease or

cardiovascular events we would like patients that are poor surgical candidates because if they can have surgery then they may be able to have surgery or patients that do not desire future fertility patients that have

already concerns about hysterectomy because of religious reasons or don't want to have hormonal therapy and I actually like patients that have have a have obesity because if we are able to do this procedure then they're spared

more complications related to surgery so the ideal patient then and this is a very important point said all three criteria would need to be fit that if you're a patient in order to be offered embolization number one

you have to have fibroids believe it or not you have to have symptoms that are related to fibroids and then you have to have some MRI that says that the location of where your fiber it is is causing that symptom and that these

fibroids are vascular let me explain okay and I'm going to skip this so I've been working with people for a long enough time and I've work of Julie for years I've worked with Diane and Anna and some other people for like ten years

and imagine if you're working with me for ten years you know that you're probably going to be able to do this procedure too like you're scrubbing right next to me eventually like you pick these things up what I get paid for

is not to do that and for the experienced nurses and techs that are in the room you know exactly what I'm talking about you're better than the doctors half of the time you really could do this procedure but what I get

paid for is to decide who does not even get to come on the table to get this procedure done so pay attention to this slide and these this criteria is being challenged every day and we're getting more and more data to say that this is

old information that we used to say if the uterus was like more than six months then you probably shouldn't have a uterine sparing procedure but we know that we do in embolization all the time in patients that have large fibroids

anyway but there's no data to actually give us that information most of the trials that we have and we have had a lot of them they have excluded patients where their individual fibroids were greater than 12 centimeters if you have

had an indeterminate and de metrio biopsy or you're having abnormal pap smear doing a uterine sparing procedure makes no sense so we use these imaging to really help us to determine which patients really

deserve to be treated so everybody can see that that image on the Left where it says submucosal refers to and I'm gonna try and come down so I can see these images here and you can see that there is a fibroid that is in

truck hava teri do you see that that round thing that is surrounded by the white fluid that is someone that has what we would call a type zero fibroid completely within the unit of course this is going to cause bleeding but

should this person have a uterine artery embolization or a hysterectomy Gail no this patient should have like hysteroscopic resection like a D&C and they would just scrape that thing out and then their symptoms would go away or

the patient on the right that has a normal appearing uterus and then this pedunculated gigantic thing that has bled into itself that is like a sub serosa fibroid of the extreme just hanging off on the outside now should

this patient have embolization no someone can tie a string right at that little connection and take that thing out so using our imaging to help us to decide which patients should be treated is very important or this patient who

came with Oh dr. Newsome I've been bleeding for 10 weeks in a row I have reversed cycles I have bulk I have bladder symptoms and yet they have that little dot that little black thing there that little dot

at the top that is the only place where there's a fibroid so this patient should not be a candidate for embolization either because yes they have symptoms and they have that little tiny daughter for fibra but that is not what's causing

those symptoms so it is important that we're not doing procedures on patients just because we can but because we're using our imaging and the patient's symptom to decide which patients are the best candidates for these procedures

patient like this you have a very large left lateral HCC that's invading the left the patek vein and extending into the heart since when we get into things like radioembolisation if you have

multifocal liver disease if you want to apply radiation therapy to that's very difficult to do that because it actually requires more radiation dose to kill HCC than it does the adjacent normal liver the liver is actually that ready

sensitive so you can do things like SBRT and pick an individual lesion you can do things like a imrt which is you know survey 8 non focus generalize low dose but what's interesting Malaysian is that if you administer

particles they only shoot about two millimeters worth of the raishin field around it so of what used is that with one not much but if you put eight to forty million of them within the bloodstream they Auto sort themselves

based off of the vascular flow preferential that exists with tumors tumors actually emit hormones pull in blood supply that you weren't born with and that actually tends to pull beads from the bloodstream preferentially

towards it so this is an example where you stain a tumor with two types of wax one the portal that's blue one the artery that's red and you can see how much that preferential exists so what ends up happening is these spheres

cluster within the tumor and then provide local dose radiation that's very hot where the tumor is and low elsewhere so here's an example of that this is a patient with metastatic neuroendocrine disease multifocal liver lesions you can

see that vascular flow preferential this is what it looks like on the maa when we jecht a protein particle surrogate that has a technician I should have assigned to it just as a visualization of how the particle is

going to sort out and the post y9t bremsstrahlung CT is over there and you can see how intense the necrosis is within the tumor and how much it's spared the normal liver however you do get some radiation damage they don't

live a regardless that's why choosing the timing of when you're gonna do this is important this is a patient that was treated with tastes above and one session of y9u beneath so you can see that they do have different types of

therapeutic mechanisms they're not the same even though they look very similar in terms of when we're administering

from our acute to chronic again just to recap this patient had what was

confirmed categorized as intermediate high risk PE for many of the reasons that you can see here so again here's their scan showing that there's thrombus in the left and right pulmonary arteries here's an echo that showed that the

patient had right ventricular strain and that had an enlarged right ventricle so this patient got a pulmonary artery Graham you can see here there's thrombus you basically don't see contrast going past the main pulmonary artery on the

right or the left sorry I didn't have the DSA images so we check we put a pulmonary artery catheter we do some initial runs and get pressures and then afterwards we put wires into the main pulmonary arteries ideally we try to go

down into the lower lobe so you get the most bang for your buck and have throw-up I have TPA infusing in the area that has the most rhombus and then we in this case placed eCos catheters and you can tell whether catheters Annie Coast

catheter not because of the little hash marks one thing that's important to notice is that the hash marks don't go all the way to the end the first time I need to Nicko's catheter I didn't know that and I was like I think the wire is

too short that's inside of it but it actually is short by a few centimeters the patient came back 24 hours later you can already see that there's an improved profusion in the left lung all the way distally and then in the right lung you

can also see improved perfusion so they're still thrombus they're in the right lower lobe again we're not going for a perfect picture what we're going for is the patient to be better and their pulmonary and the right

ventricular pressures to be improved if the pressure is reduced about 20% I think most interventional radiologists will say that that's a successful procedure but more importantly what I'd like to

see is that the patient is no longer on pressors they're no longer requiring a high amount of oxygen they can be extubated they say that they don't have any more chest pain they're able to talk better all of those clinical factors

that we sort of sometimes don't think about those are signs that the patient is doing well and that maybe that's not worth the risk of continuing giving him the TPA so this is a follow-up scan on this patient showing that pretty much

all the thrombus is gone so what happens

stamp placement we talked a little bit about it I'm gonna talk to you a little

bit more about it and ideal stance is a straight stance that has a nice smooth curve with a portal vein and a nice smooth curve with a bad igneous end well you don't want is it is a tips that T's the sealing of the hepatic vein okay

that closes it okay and if there's a problem in the future it's very difficult to select okay or impossible to select okay you want it nice and smooth with a patek vein and IVC so you can actually get into it and it actually

has a nice hemodynamic outflow the same thing with the portal thing what you don't want is slamming at the floor of the portal vein and teeing that that floor where where it actually portly occludes your shunts okay or gives you a

hard time selecting the portal vein once you're in the tips in any future tips revisions okay other things you need it nice and straight so you do not want long curves new or torqued or kinks in your tips you

a nice aggressive decompressive tips that is nice and straight and opens up the tips shunt okay we talked a little bit you don't want it you don't want to tee the kind of the ceiling of the of the hepatic vein another problem that we

found out you want that tips stance to extend to the hepatic vein IVC Junction you do not want it to fall short of the paddock vein IVC Junction much okay much is usually a centimeter or centimeter and a half is it is acceptable

the problem with hepatic veins and this is the same pathology as the good old graft dialysis grafts what is the common sites of dialysis graft narrowing at the venous anastomosis why for this reason it's the same pathogenesis veins whether

it's in your arm for analysis whether it's in your liver or anywhere are designed for low flow low turbidity flow of the blood okay if you subject a vein of any type to high turbot high velocity flow it reacts by thickening its walls

it reacts by new intimal hyperplasia so if you put a big shunt which increases volume and increased flow turbidity in that area in that appear again the hepatic vein reacts by causing new into our plays you actually get a narrowing

of the Phatak vein right distal to the to the to the Patek venous end of the shunt so you need to take it all the way to the Big C to the IVC okay how much time do I have half an hour huh 17 minutes okay

Viator stents is one way let's say you don't have a variety or stent many countries you don't have a virus then what's an alternative do a barre covered stem combination you put a wall stent and then put a covered stance on the

inside okay so put a wall stent a good old-fashioned you know oldie but a goodie is is a 1094 okay you just put a ten nine four Wahl cent which is the go to walls down so I go to stand for tips before Viator

and then put a cover sentence inside whatever it is it's a could be a fluency it could be a could be a vibe on and and do that so that's another alternative for tips we talked about an ace tips as a central straight tips and it's not out

and fishing out in the periphery okay this is an occlusion with a wall stance this is why we use think this is why now we use stent grafts this is complete occlusion of the tips we're injecting contrast this is not the coral vein this

is actually the Billy retreat visit ptc okay that's a big Billy leaked into the into the tips okay and that's why we use covered stance I'm gonna move forward on this in early and early and experienced

so this shows you this shows you how so this typically you've accessed the portal vein now and you're in next up you basically pass the wire down this just gives you a little depiction of

what you're what you're what you're doing here this think of this is a sagittal and Deliver okay hepatic vein and portal vein it's the sagittal and what you're trying to do is

and if you're in the right hepatic vein you need to pass your needle anteriorly to hit the right portal vein okay and the right portal vein is usually anterior and interfere to the Patek vein okay so you pass your wire you're you

NEET your needle and when if you're missing the portal vein usually what's happening is that you're scooping behind it okay your posterior to it and sometimes you'll find the operators will actually increase the curve in the

needle so they can actually reach anterior anterior and actually hit the portal vein because usually usually if you if you know you're in the right place that the right hepatic vein not in the middle of petting vain and

you're missing the portal vein you need to reach anterior more so they put a little extra curve in the kelp into needle to actually catch that right portal vein okay with liver cirrhosis you get shrinking shrinkage of the liver

size the liver decreases the portal vein starts moving more anterior and more superior and closer to that paddock vein okay and it becomes more and more difficult to actually hit it so the smaller the liver the harder the liver

the smaller the space and you've got a thick mat piece of metal okay it's very difficult to hit that okay it becomes more and more challenging with with smaller levels to hit to hit the portal vein especially centrally okay this is

an access kit a new access kit by Gore it's basically the similar to the similar to the Cal Pinto needle it's a little longer with a little bit increase angulation compared to the traditional ring kits or the Cole Pinto needle but

once accessed you pass a wire okay into the portal circulation there are two ways of doing this okay there's a traditional old-school way that's my way is that to use a Benson wire okay the youngsters the Millennials are using

glide wires okay so if you're dealing with a millennial physician they're usually going for the glide okay if you're dealing with them with an older you know guy or gal they're using usually using a Benson wire okay the

advantage of the Benson wire is that has a floppy tip it actually you just push it in and hits the wall it prolapses into the main portal vein right away as you can see just prolapse and portal vein if you're using a glide where

you're catching all sorts of things you'll have small branches you don't know where you're going your V's even sometimes dissecting outside of the portal vein they're second-guessing themselves all the time but actually the

good way with a little bit of more different skillset is that you use use actual good old fashioned Benson wire actually goes in prolapses right away into the ends of the main into the main portal vein rarely would I actually use

light or switch to a glare that's usually if I'm coming in in a small in a small branch or an orchid angle where I have to use a glide right to try to get around the angle because I don't have enough room for a Benson to actually hit

the wall and prolapse is very really really tight space so tights Bates funny angles I'll switch to a glide where if it's a straight forward a Benson as very is very straight forward okay try to get the sheath as much into the portal vein

over the over the needle over the wire as possible and then you balloon your tract okay through the sheath okay some people will balloon with a six millimeter boom some people will balloon with an eight millimeter blue eye

balloon with an eight four okay at night and I make sure it's a four so that I actually use the balloon as the measurements for this four centimeters actually you I actually use the balloon to measure my to measure my Viator's

stance okay with the balloon there there'll be two waists there's a portal venous entry site and the Ematic venous entry site so you actually gauge that and take a picture of it so you actually see how long your tract is where's your

hepatic venous access who has your portal venous axis actually gives you a lot of anatomy here been engaging in actually putting where your Viator stent is okay usually high pressure balloon I use it and ate some people will use a

six or even a seven millimeter balloon

know we're running a bit short on time so I want to briefly just touch about

some techniques with comb beam CT which are very helpful to us there are a lot of reasons why you should use comb beam CT it gives us the the most extensive anatomic understanding of vascular territories and the implications for

that with oncology are extremely valuable because of things like margin like we discussed here's an example of a patient who had a high AF P and their bloodstream which tells us that they have a cancer in her liver we can't see

it on the CT there but if you do a cone beam CT it stands up quite nicely why because you're giving levels of contrast that if you were to give them through a peripheral IV it would be toxic to the patient but when you're infusing into a

segment the body tolerates at the problem so patient preparation anxa lysis is key you have them exhale above three seconds prior to that there's a lot of change to how we're doing this people who are introducing radial access

power injection anywhere from about 50 to even sometimes thirty to a hundred percent contrast depends on what phase you're imaging we have a Animoto power injector that allows us to slide what contrast concentration we like a lot of

times people just rely on 30% and do their whole the case with that some people do a hundred percent image quality this is what it looks like when someone's breathing this is very difficult to tell if there's complete

lesion enhancement so if you do your comb beam CT know it looks like this this is trying to coach the patient and try to get them to hold still and then this is the patient after coaching which looks like this so you can tell that you

have a missing portion of the lesion and you have to treat into another segment what about when you're doing an angio and you do a cone beam CT NIT looks like this this is what insufficient counts looks like on comb beam so when you see

these sort of Shell station lines that are going all over the screen you have to raise dose usually in larger patients but this is you know you either slow down the acquisition speed of your comb beam or

you raise dose this is what it looks like after we gave it a higher dose protocol it really changes everything those lines are still there but they're much smaller how do you know if you have enhancement or a narrow artifact you can

repeat with non-contrast CT and give the patient glucagon and you can find the small very these small arteries that pick off the left that commonly profuse the stomach the right gastric artery you can use your comb beam CT to find

non-target evaluation even when your angio doesn't suggest it so this is a patient they have recurrent HCC we didn't angio from here those arteries down there where those coils were looked funny even though the patient was

quote-unquote coiled off we did a comb beam CT and that little squiggly C shape structures that duodenum that's contrast going in it this would be probably a lethal event for the patient or certainly would require surgery if you

treated that much with y9t reposition the catheter deeper towards the lesion and you can repeat your comb beam CT and see that you don't have an hands minh sometimes you have these little accessory left gastric artery this is

where we really need your help you know a lot of times everyone's focused and I think the more eyes the better for these kind of things but we're looking for these little tiny vessels that sometimes hop out of the liver and back into the

stomach or up into the esophagus there's a very very small right gastric artery in this picture here this patient post hepatectomy that rides along the inferior surface of the liver it's a little curly cube so and this is a small

esophageal branch so when you do comb beam TT this is what the stomach looks like when it enhances and this is what the esophagus looks like when it enhances you can do non contrast comb beam CTS to confirm ablation so you have

a lesion this is the comb beam CT for enhancement you treat with your embolic and this is a post to determine that you've had completely shin coverage and you can see how that correlates a response so the last thing we're going

and you can see on this t1-weighted image that increased area of enhancement which is the area of synovial thickening you actually see this on MRI beforehand and there it is located over the lateral aspect of the knee on the axial image

and so what we're doing sorry in the medial aspect of the knee so what we're doing here on the angiogram is and you solve these leg angiograms where everyone doesn't really care about these Janicki lit arteries they're really

important when you have sfa or popliteal occlusive disease because they serve as a collateral source but otherwise and people have arthritis they can be a real pain and pain in the knee if you will so this is a this is the superior medial

genicular artery it always drapes over the femoral condyle and you'll see here on this image you don't really see very much once we get into the vessel look at this it almost looks like a small about a cellular carcinoma like when you're in

the liver you get this tumor type blush vascularity that's what we're looking for that corresponds to the patient's area of pain and then after embolization this is what it looks like takes a very small amount

of embolic we're using maybe 0.4 2.6 sometimes 1 CC at most of dilute embolic that we're injecting this is another case again before and after if you look here on the right and then on the left you don't really see much until you

select the vessel out once you get into that super medial vessel you can see how much enhancement there is so in our clinical study of 20 patients this is what we did you'll see on the bottom here we used embassy and 75 micron in 9

patients and 1111 patients got a 100 micron and I'll explain why we upsized our particles so initially we wanted to go very small because that's what dr. o Cano had done in Japan but then we wanted to actually up size our particles

and I'll explain this here in our complications so like all clinical studies the purpose of doing really good clinical research is because this is early and we don't know if they're going to be complications and it's always fun

when you're the first one to figure it out and you tell patients I don't really know what's gonna happen and this is what happens so 13 patients had this kind of skin discoloration over their knee now we knew this because we've been

doing knee embolization for about 10 years in bleeding patients not necessarily arthritic patients so we had seen this before but none of these patients in this clinical study went on to have any alteration of the skin and

it resolved in all patients there was some minor side effects from basically medications and one small groin hematoma but there were two patients who developed plantar numbness over their great toe so under their great toe

basically in the medial distribution of their tibial nerve they ended up getting plantar numbness and this is believed at least in our experience to probably be related to non-target embolization to the tibial nerve the tibial nerve

probably gets its blood supply from many of these generic arteries so we decided

is my cap nog Rafi reading actually I want to back up a little bit here do I want to back up no I don't I don't want to back up so um let's look at the first

question why is my cap nog Rafi reading abnormal so let's first talk about physiology so a question I get a lot of times is sue the patient comes down for a procedure to the floor I put a sample line set on

them I plug them into the monitor and I'm getting a value of 28 29 30 why are my values abnormal anyone ever see this is anyone still awake okay so there's a few reasons the patients that we are dealing with generally aren't

healthy right I mean sometimes I go to work and I get chest pain I'm like can I just be in an ambulatory gallbladder room today because the patients that are coming from down to IR are sick what their physiology is sick too so we have

Krebs cycle we take oxygen in right it circulates to ourselves it participates in aerobic metabolism we get the byproducts of heat and energy and we get carbon dioxide as a by-product carbon dioxide really diffuse about diffuses

into our blood travels to the lungs and gets exhaled where we measure it so let's talk metabolism really quickly so if someone has a fever if their metabolism is ramped up you think they're gonna be producing more carbon

dioxide yes let's say they're a little hypothermic maybe they're gonna be producing a little bit less you see it for sure in the car patients who are cardiac arrest that are cool to status post cardiac

arrest right those values go way down normal physiology normal physiologic response somebody comes down and they're mildly hypoxic they've got pneumonia or some sort of VQ mismatch and they're hyperventilating to UM debeso

compensate for their hypoxia do you think there's co2 values gonna be a little lower at baseline yeah so these are the patients that you're seeing right so we have reasons that patients could be hyper cap neck like metabolism

right somebody who's in pain someone who's developing a fever early stages of sepsis they may actually have a little bit of a higher value somebody who's sedated or hypoventilating may have a higher value and when we talk about

perfusion is the blood moving round and round is that circulating co2 coming back to the core do we have increased cardiac output with continuous constant ventilation and certainly we can we're gonna look at equipment issues next and

the same goes true more probably in your cases of the hypocapnia patient so someone who is not fully exhaling someone who's in bronchospasm or a COPD or you're not getting that nice square waveform you're only getting some of the

mixed gas ventilation that they're exhaling rights and the conducting airway is mixing with the alveolar gases someone's a little hypothermic someone who's been NPO for 24 hours right it's the opposite of carb-loading right so

you kind of throw them into a little bit of like acidosis you know they're kind of not burning carbs for fuel are they gonna be producing as much carbon dioxide not so much right so when you're coming so when

patients come down to you and you put them on the monitor consider these things so ventilation perfusion gradients so we have what we call our VQ matches and our body is designed beautifully right so when everything is

working great it works great so the way we ventilate all of our lungs owns is very closely matched to the perfusion of all of our lungs ohms so by me standing up here I'd like to think I'm pretty healthy if you did a blood gas and you

put me on one of those filter line sets right now you would hopefully see a gradient that's very small the normal gradient between a PA co2 on a blood gas so the level of carbon dioxide on a blood gas in the arterial blood and what

you see when I fully exhale into the monitor should be between two and five millimeters so these are your patients come down healthy physiology you put them on and you get a value of like 32 then you

could assume that if they were healthy two to five millimeters okay their blood gas would probably like 35 for POC to everyone follow now does any of our patients read the physiology tech books textbooks no they typically don't so

when you have patients come down they may have shunt right so they may have we have our little airway here a and B you're out like picture them as lungs and lung a is blocked so we have no ventilation going to lung a but blood is

still chugging through right so blood is still going through the pulmonary circuit so we're gonna have Patapsco a dia depending on the size of the shunt is this the end of the world are we gonna cancel the case no but just being

aware of the patient's physiology would explain to you why I put this patient on this and I'm getting a value of 30 you follow and it's not the end of the world you document 30 and you monitor for trends as you're going along with your

sedation same thing goes through with dead space dead spaces were ventilating but we have an area of the lung that is not being perfused pulmonary emboli other circulations some medications hypovolemia shocky patients same thing

the VQ mismatch not the end of the world it's part of the patient's physiology maybe part of the reason why they're down there just being aware of these things though so the technology works right our equipment works if just amazed

it's picking up something that we don't connect all the dots on physiologically that sometimes confuses us a little bit so I hope that clears up part of it so when we're monitoring capnography certainly ventilation is what we think

of first and it's important co2 being expired by the lungs that's what we're looking for but if we back up and look at the physiology of carbon dioxide production in the body we are also inferring that

it's being metabolized and being created from Krebs cycle and aerobic metabolism and that we have perfusion occurring okay I'm sure if some of us have seen in our you know nursing careers patients who are kind of peri-arrest and

the capnography kind of drops off it's like a poor man's swan you're watching cardiac output drop in real time because carbon carbon dioxide is not being delivered to the lungs so when we're looking at our patients when

they first come down we first want to establish a baseline value we want to put on a monitor have a patient take some nice deep breaths full ventilations not just one but a few you want to you know have them take a few and look at

their other vital signs their mental baseline status and we're gonna look for trends in their carbon dioxide value so if someone starts off at twenty nine I don't care that they're not 35 to 45 which is textbook normal this person may

not have the stimulus to breathe if I let too much co2 accumulate so we're really looking for the trends okay now somebody will say well how much of you know how much should we look for 10 to 20 percent change from your baseline is

somewhere where you want to start paying attention to what's going on okay maybe like titrating your sedation or just being a little bit more cautious with how much more sedation but again it's more important to look at the trend

value behavior of your carbon dioxide than it is the absolute numbers themselves so first you having a problem let's consider the patient's physiology

CT scan frequently or they actually show up with a CT scan so I want to highlight the fact that this is different these images are different than the patients

who had acute pulmonary embolism I will say that it's very hard to kind of get this into your brain but they're very different so first of all they'll have a VQ scan that'll show that they have mismatch defects after that when you

look at the scan the clot has a different appearance before it was in the middle of the vessel it was surrounded by a rim of normal contrast here it's actually wall adherent it's irregular it's got weird weird angles to

it weird margins and then distally the vessels are very small in acute PE the proximal pulmonary arteries are enlarged because they're hitting they're enlarging because they're hitting a roadblock in here in chronic PE the

vessels shrink down and shrivel beyond it because there's chronic clot they're a lot like patients who have chronic DVT in their legs when you look at that sagittal view kind of think back to the original case that I showed you

you saw that sort of with clot there's a thin lines floating in the middle of the vessel here it's irregular it looks serrated it's gotten really weird angles so this is another example of chronic PE from the literature that believe it or

not is not mediastinal adenopathy it's not a patient with cancer it's a patient with chronic PE all that thrombus sort of lines the inner walls of the pulmonary arteries you can even have calcification just like you would have

in atherosclerosis also the vessels distal to the clot become shriveled down and that's a way to tell if that's chronic PE versus acute here's another example of a patient of the image on the left is the patient years or before and

then the image on the right is a patient with chronic thromboembolic pulmonary hypertension and then a few more examples showing you that it's usually on the side of the blood vessel rather than in the middle of the blood vessel

so if you want to know just an easy way if you see clot in the middle of a blood vessel it's probably acute if you see it on the side and along the walls it's chronic more pictures kind of just to put in your brain so the diagnostic

includes an interview of the patient abnormalities of major organ systems like cardiac status do they have a reduced ejection fraction do they have coronary artery disease I want to know

if they have an EF of 10% because if they become hemodynamically unstable and I want to give them fluids I'm not going to bolus a patient with a very low ejection fraction with two liters of fluid you're gonna cause

pulmonary edema and you're going to worsen the situation renal status is huge a lot of our patients are renal e impaired and that can affect the way that they clear the sedation medications that we're giving pulmonary status do

they have COPD asthma or sleep apnea sleep apnea is major in procedural sedation neurologic status do they have a history of seizures endocrine status hyper or hypo metabolism of medications can occur if they have a thyroid

disorder we want to know about adverse experiences with sedation in the past do they have a history of a difficult airway for us at NYU if they have been already been identified as a difficult airway that automatically means we're

doing the procedure with anesthesia current medications potential drug interactions is very important we'll go over that a few slides drug allergies and herbal supplements that they're taking tobacco alcohol or

substance use and frequent or repeated exposure to sedation agents is just going to increase their tolerance of the medications physical exam vital signs auscultation of heart and lungs and then their airway assessment sorry excuse me

do they have any Strider snoring or sleep apnea advanced RA they're gonna have a hard time tilting their neck back if they have cervical spine disease or they have rheumatoid arthritis chromosomal abnormalities like

trisomy 21 patients with Down syndrome can have an enlarged tongue that can impair your ability to manually ventilate them if respiratory depression wants to occur body habitus if they have significant obesity especially of the

head and neck areas and head and neck limited neck extension short neck decreased ornamental distance which is basically just looking at how far back they can tilt their head any neck mass and then again cervical spine disease or

trauma do they have a c-spine collar are they on c-spine precautions that's not a patient we're going to be able to manipulate their airway and then mouth opening we do use Mallampati and I'll review

that in a couple of slides so the AFC classification is a categorization of the patient's physiologic status that can be helpful in predicting operative risk it is recommended by the AFA that if a patient is an Asaf or that that

should prompt an evaluation by an anesthesiologist I will tell you at NYU we will still get procedural sedation to some patients who are in Asaf or but we like to identify it ahead of time because if they have significant

comorbidities that will potentially increase their likely hurt likelihood of having an adverse outcome we then have a lower threshold for activating a rapid response or a code if something was to happen if we got concerned about

something so the airway assessment is

after having these two cases one in our institution and one at University of North Carolina Chapel Hill that we would then basically upsize our particles to

100 micron and we have not seen that and we're doing a second clinical study and I'm not seeing that as either we had about a 70% reduction in pain so if you look at our visual analog score out to six months and if you look at our

disability it actually paralleled this exactly which is pretty impressive considering mostly patients had bilateral knee pain so out to six months very good results 90% of patients were responders so two

out of our twenty patients did not really respond one patient didn't respond at his one-month follow-up but did respond at his three and six so I still consider him a clinical failure because we expect

these patients to respond by one month here's just an example of a baseline MRI before and after and you can see all that joint effusion there the white that decreases just even after a month how much it decreases and we looked at this

in terms of synovial thickness and distension and even on MRI you can object objectively count calculate synovitis scores and we calculated that they actually statistically decreased this is another patient on the left the

image shows diffuse white enhancement if you will of the synovium of the lining on the right it shows the fluid this is an image just of embolization and I show this image because it's really shocking and this is actually one of our nurses

who's enrolled in a clinical study is this is before this is all we did we embolized the medial aspect of the knee this is one month later 30 days in fact somebody just asked me this when I was in the booth over at the meeting across

the street and basically I said listen I don't know why this happened so quickly I have no idea we didn't tap renu-it into anything else if you look at this premium post it's pretty dramatic so clearly there's an inflammatory process

that we are arresting or stopping in such a short period of time so is there a future for this I don't know it may just we may just fall down and find out that there really is in a great future but so far we know it's at least

technically successful it's the results are positive in the short term long term we're not so sure yet we do need to better understand these risks and I think in my opinion in the long term it'll probably be really really good for

this 40 to 65 year old patient population who's not yet ready for knee replacement surgery this is the algorithm for our clinical study which were almost done enrolling right now it's a randomized control study against

placebo so it's two to one randomization which means one third of the patients actually get a sham procedure so we do an angiogram on their leg they're asleep they have no idea for embolizing they're genetical it arteries or not we wake

them up I think about the table and we follow them up if they're no better they're allowed to cross over and get the treatment the other 2/3 of the

them so my particular area of interest is a blade of radium ization and what we'd like to do is to break the liver

down into a bunch of little tiny perfused volumes off of a single vascular pedicle or what we call angio zones and those are those allow us to segment out if you only have small volume disease for example like here in

segment three why do I have to treat the entire left to paddock low I can actually treat just that small portion just like it what it tastes only now I'm administering y9t but since it's expendable liver I

can administer doses that are way higher orders of magnitudes higher than what I could if our infusing into the liver just on its own so here's an example of that if you look at this lesion in the right of panic lobe you'll see these

little lines over them what we want to achieve is around a 205 GRA threshold for these lesions that's the red line everything that's south of red in terms of color orange Holly to blue is not cold enough to kill tumor so if we

administer a dose of a tea grade to the lobe we get this coverage which is to be a partial response if I administer 150 grey suddenly that red line gets larger what happens when you administer 400 grey now you've officially covered the

entire lesion and so you're going to lose the adjacent liver at those kind of doses and as well - what what the real question then is not sort of how much dose you give it's you give what you need to to ablate the tumor in its

entirety and you see what the patient's left with if someone's left with anatomically a lot of remnant liver because of how you've segmented out that lesion then go ahead and dose extremely high and that's essentially what we've

seen in pathologic results it's one of the highest things of high school pathological crosa rates you can achieve with a trans arterial therapy it's highly competitive with thermal ablation in the correctly selected bleezin

so this is an example of what it looks like when you segment out a little lesion like this and this patient ultimately went to resection and this was a complete pathologic necrosis but as you can see even it was a cirrhotic

patient we chose a very small volume of liver that we felt the patient would tolerate so that's a blade of vernalization let's take a look at what looks like in real time so we have a little capsular lesion we felt that

ablating this patient who was a potential transplant candidate we felt we can probably with a blade of radium realization so you go in and this is the comb beam CT that looks at a complete enhancement of the lesion within the NGO

zone this is what the MAA looks like when we administer it you can see how it tends to cluster within the tumor but you can see what the adverse territory is the liver adjacent to it this is what the engine room looks like how highly

selective it is the day of and this is what the wine ID actually looks like is the wine 90 doing its job and you can see how conformal it is there's no risk whatsoever to the liver that's adjacent outside of that field of

a maximum of around 11 millimeters and this is a patient at one month with a complete imaging response and this patient never developed a recurrent to the site and what's actually sole mode of treatment for this person's liver

cancer this is how you get complete pathologic response if you look at those little tiny grey dots in there those are actually the spheres within tiny little vessels within the tumor sometimes they go even to the portal branch but you can

see how they're not clustered uniformly but when you make them super hot that allows them to give range where otherwise they would be fine a little bit short so this also applies to the whole lobe this was a patient that had a

very unusual presentation of colon cancer that was invading the portal II we weren't sure what to do with this patient no one was because a very rare occurrence so we said well we would like

to resect him but there's not enough liver and we're not sure if this person's gonna survive because we've never seen portal cancer invading the portal vein so we said let's treat it with the radiation lobectomy and what's

cool here is if you look at the the arteries even though the tumor is invading the portal vein it's bringing arterial supply along with it like a vagabond and that's the conduit that allows us to treat these patients so

when we saw that we felt this patient we good candidate for irradiation lobectomy which is applying an ablative dose of y9t to the entire low not just a small segment in patients where otherwise cannot because of the anatomy the tumor

or if you're trying to shrink that lobe to get that person ready for surgery why because if you look at the size of the lobe on the left from this first image and compare it here you can see how much larger it got what happens is that part

that the surgeon ultimately tens on resecting in volutes over time and becomes completely vitalized and turns into scar tissue so we know that if a surgeon goes in afterwards to cut it out it's going to not result in liver

failure and that level of security allows people to have sir who otherwise wouldn't this patient is not going to have metastatic disease because we followed their blood level markers let me see how low they are and

is going to have enough liver remnant so the patient went to resection and this is the pathologic specimen and this was also a complete pathologic necrosis so I

let me show you a case of massive PE

this launched our pert pert PE response team 30 year-old man transcranial resection of a pituitary tumor post-op seizures intracranial frontal lobe hemorrhage okay so after his brain surgery developed a frontal lobe

hemorrhage and of course few days after that developed hypotension and hypoxia and was found to have a PE and this is what the PE look like so I'll go back to this one that's clot in the IVC right there and

that's clot in the right main pulmonary artery on this side clot in the IVC clot in the right main pulmonary artery systolic blood pressure was around 90 millimeters of mercury for about an hour he was getting more altered tachycardic

he was in the 120s at this point we realized he was not going the right direction for some reason the surgeon didn't want to touch him still to this day not sure why but that was the case he was brought to the ir suite and I had

a great Mickey attending who came with him and decided to start him on pressors and basically treat him like an ICU patient while I was trying to get rid of his thrombus so it came from the neck because I was conscious of this clot in

the IVC and I didn't want to dislodge it as I took my catheters past it and you see the Selective pulmonary and on selective pulmonary angiogram here and there's some profusion to the left lung and basically none to the right lung

take a sheath out to the right side and do an injection that you see all this cast of thrombus you really see no pulmonary perfusion here you can understand why at this point this man is not doing well what I did at this point

was give a little bit of TPA took a pigtail started trying to spin it through aspirated a little bit wasn't getting anywhere he was actually getting worse I was starting to feel very very nervous I had remembered for my AV

fistula work that there was this thing called the cleaner I don't have any stake in the company but I said you know I don't have a lot to lose here and I thought maybe this would be better than me trying to spin a pigtail through

the clock so the important thing about the cleaners it does not go over a wire so you have to take the sheet out then take out the wire then put the cleaner through that sheath and withdraw the sheath

you can't bareback it especially in the pulmonary circulation the case reports are poking through the pulmonary artery and causing massive hemorrhage and the pulmonary artery does not have an adventitia which is the outer layer just

a little bit thinner than your average artery okay so activated it deployed it and you started to get better and this is what it looked like at the end now this bonus question does somebody see anything on this this picture here that

made me very happy on this side this picture here that made me feel like hey we're getting somewhere I'm sorry the aorta the aorta you start to see the aorta exactly and that that was something I was not seen before the

point being that even though this doesn't look that good in terms of your final image the fact that you see filling in the aorta and mine it might have been some of the stuff I had done earlier I can't I can't pinpoint which

of the interventions actually worked but that's what I'm looking for I'm looking for aortic blood flow because now I've got a hole in that in that clot that's getting blood flow to the left ventricle which starts to reverse that RV

dysfunction that we were concerned about make sure I'm okay with time so we'll

patient who did not come from the street so if you've been here for a few years

you've heard me talk about you know some of my friends this is also one of my other friends who has large fibroids but her fibroids were so big and they were not all very vascular and so I sent her to have surgery and she ended up having

a hysterectomy with removal of her cervix because of abnormal pap smears but her ovaries were left in place so our path forward after doing this procedure from 1995 a procedure that is not experimental a procedure that has

had a lot a lot of research done on it more research than most procedures that are done surgically or by interventional radiologists I'd say that it would require a partnership it is true that we can see patients on our own and we can

manage mostly everything but at the end of the day uterine artery embolization is still a palliative procedure because we don't know what causes fibroids to begin with and as long as the uterus is still there there's always a chance that

new fibroids will come back so in your practice and in mind I believe that a path forward is a sustaining program embolization program which is built on a relationship with the gynecologist that yes

I am as aggressive as any other interventionist that is out there but if this were my mom and that is my usual test for things I would say that where we would like to position ourselves is in the business of informing the

patient's as much as possible so that they can make an informed decision and that we're asking our gynecology partners to do the same is that if you're going to have a hysterectomy for a benign disease that you should demand

and we as a society and you as your sisters keeper should be asking for why am I not eligible for an embolization so si R is actually embarking on a major campaign in the next year or so it's called the vision to heal campaign and

it's all around providing education for this disease stage what I like to tell our patients and I'm almost finished here is when I talk to our gynecologist and to techs and nurses as well I said woody woody what should I expect right

that's what they want to know when I send my patient to you what should I expect and I say that what you should expect that Shawn and myself we're gonna tell the patient everything about fibroids we're gonna talk to them about

what the fibroids are the pathophysiology of it the same things I told you we're gonna tell them about the procedures that treat it we tell them about the options to do nothing we talk about all of the risk and the benefits

of the procedures especially of fibroid embolization and we start the workup to see if they're an appropriate candidate when they're an appropriate candidate we communicate with them and their OBGYN and then we schedule them for their

procedure in our practice there are a few of us who send our patients home on the same day and we let our patients know no one is kicking you out of the hospital if you can't go home that day then you'll get to stay but

most of our patients are able to go home that day and then we see our patients back in clinic somewhere between two and four months three months and six months and we own that patient follow-up their visits and after their year we have them

follow back up with their gynecologist and so that we're managing all of these sites and it comes back to that new again may not be so new for some of the people that have been doing clinical IR four years that shift that we own these

patients if you're a nurse in this room these are our patients these questions need to be answered by us in our department we do not believe that these patients should be calling their gynecologist for the answers to that

like what should I be doing right now should I be taking I haven't had a bowel movement and like that is something that we answer we're the ones that are given them the discharge instructions and we set them back up for their follow-up so

they travel together so that's what leads to the increased pain and sensitivity so in the knee there have been studies like 2015 we published that study on 13 patients with 24 month follow-up for knee embolization for

bleeding which you may have seen very commonly in your institution but dr. Okun Oh in 2015 published that article on the bottom left 14 patients where he did embolization in the knee for people with arthritis he actually used an

antibiotic not imposing EMBO sphere and any other particle he did use embolus for in a couple patients sorry EMBO zine in a couple of patients but mainly used in antibiotic so many of you know if antibiotics are like crystalline

substances they're like salt so you can't inject them in arteries that's why I have to go into IVs so they use this in Japan to inject and then dissolve so they go into the artery they dissolve and they're resorbable so they cause a

like a light and Baalak effect and then they go away he found that these patients had a decrease in pain after doing knee embolization subsequently he published a paper on 72 patients 95 needs in which he had an

excellent clinical success clinical success was defined as a greater than 50% reduction in knee pain so they had more than 50% reduction in knee pain in 86 percent of the patients at two years 79 percent of these patients still had

knee pain relief that's very impressive results for a procedure which basically takes in about 45 minutes to an hour so we designed a u.s. clinical study we got an investigational device exemption actually Julie's our clinical research

coordinator for this study and these are the inclusion exclusion criteria we basically excluded patients who have rheumatoid arthritis previous surgery and you had to have moderate or severe pain so greater than 50 means basically

greater than five out of ten on a pain scale we use a pain scale of 0 to 100 because it allows you to delineate pain a little bit better and you had to be refractory to something so you had to fail medications injections

radiofrequency ablation you had to fail some other treatment we followed these patients for six months and we got x-rays and MRIs before and then we got MRIs at one month to assess for if there was any non-target embolization likes a

bone infarct after this procedure these are the clinical scales we use to assess they're not really so important as much as it is we're trying to track pain and we're trying to check disability so one is the VA s or visual analog score and

on right is the Womack scale so patients fill this out and you can assess how disabled they are from their knee pain it assesses their function their stiffness and their pain it's a little

bit limiting because of course most patients have bilateral knee pain so we try and assess someone's function and you've improved one knee sometimes them walking up a flight of stairs may not improve significantly but their pain may

improve significantly in that knee when we did our patients these were the baseline demographics and our patients the average age was 65 and you see here the average BMI in our patients is 35 so this is on board or class 1 class 2

obesity if you look at the Japanese study the BMI in that patient that doctor okano had published the average BMI and their patient population was 25 so it gives you a big difference in the patient population we're treating and

that may impact their results how do we actually do the procedure so we palpate the knee and we feel for where the pain is so that's why we have these blue circles on there so we basically palpate the knee and figure

out is the pain medial lateral superior inferior and then we target those two Nicollet arteries and as depicted on this image there are basically 6 to Nicollet arteries that we look for 3 on the medial side 3 on the lateral side

once we know where they have pain we only go there so we're not going to treat the whole knee so people come in and say my whole knee hurts they're not really going to be a good candidate for this procedure you want focal synovitis

or inflammation which is what we're looking for and most people have medial and Lee pain but there are a small subset of patients of lateral pain so this is an example patient from our study says patient had an MRI beforehand

PE the first one of course is

anticoagulation so heparin and bridging the patient to coumadin or now aid a direct oral anticoagulant is really the mainstay of treatment most patients again 55 percent of patients with PE have low risk PE all of those patients

should be on according to the chest guidelines three months of anticoagulation so they're gonna get heparin as an inpatient if they even need it and they're gonna get sent home on lovenox bridge to coumadin or they're

gonna get the one of the new drugs like Xarelto or Eliquis but here's all the other things that we do so these patients that are in the intermediate high risk so I'm gonna try to keep saying those terms to try to kind of put

that in everyone's brain because I think the massive and sub massive PE is what everyone used to talk about but we want to keep up with our colleagues in cardiology who are using the correct terminology we're gonna say high risk

and an intermediate but in those patients - intermediate high risk or Matt or the high risk PE patients we're gonna be treating them with systemic thrombolysis catheter directed thrombolysis ultrasound assisted

thrombolysis and maybe some real lytic and elected me or thrombectomy there's other techniques that we can use for one-time removal of clot like rotational and electa me suction thrombus fragmentation and then of course

surgical mblaq t'me so when anticoagulation is not enough so I like to show this slide because it shows the difference between anticoagulation and thrombolysis they are very different and sometimes I think everybody in this room

understands the difference but I think our referring providers don't and so when we when we get consulted and we recommend anticoagulation they're like yeah TPA well that's not the right thing so anticoagulation stops the clotting

process so when you start a patient on a heparin drip they should theoretically no longer before new thrombus on that thrombus so when you have thrombus in a vessel you get a cannon you get a snowball effect more

and more thrombus is gonna want to form heparin stops that TPA however for thrombolysis actually reverses the clouding process so that tissue plasminogen activator or streptokinase or uro kindness will actually dissolve

clot so there you're stopping new clot forming versus actually dissolving clot anticoagulation allows for natural thrombolysis so your body has its own TPA and so when you put a patient on heparin you're allowing your natural

body defenses to work you're giving it more time TPA accelerates that process so you give TPA either systemically or through a catheter you're really speeding up that process anticoagulation on its own has a

lower bleeding risk you're putting a patient on heparin or Combe it in it's it is less but it is still real thrombolysis however is a very very high bleeding risk patients when I when I consult a patient for thrombolysis I

tell them that we are about to do give them the absolute strongest blood clot thinning agent or an reversal agent which is the TPA and we're gonna just run it through your veins for hours and hours

um and that sort of gives them an idea of what we're doing anticoagulation in and of itself is really not invasive you just give it through an IV or even a pill thrombolysis however is given definitely through an IV through

systemic means and a large volume there thereafter or catheter directed so again

individually into each one of these trials but I want to just point out to you how busy the last 5 years have been because it has really caused a

resurgence in our interest in both treating PE better and what the gaps are in our knowledge so I will point out in 2014 this was an inflection point for 10 years we didn't have a major trial actually more like 12 or 15 years we

hadn't had a major trial in in PE and pytho was a 1000 patient study that informed us about how systemic thrombolytics interact with sub massive P and I'll go through the data that same year

catheterized thrombolysis is everybody familiar with catheter at the thrombolysis for submasters before Pease that's totally off the grid okay good well this was the first time we had a randomized trial for catheter directly

thrombolysis with some with some massive PE only problem was it was 59 patients in Europe so and that's all we have as far as randomized trials for CDT this is my soapbox issue I'm sorry if you've heard me say this but that's that's my

big goal is to try to change that 2015 had some follow-on CDT trials 2017 this is when we started thinking about the long term effects of PE on patients both of these studies started to examine the issue where a year after the PE patients

are not normal if you did a for example this elope long term study almost 50% of patients had an abnormal cardio pulmonary function test one year later 2018 we started to experiment with the dosage that we're

administering during CDT that's the optimized trial and we saw the first trial completed for a mechanical device called the NRA flow trailer which I'll show you later in the talk as well so that was an exciting inflection point as

well the extract PE trial which uses the indigo cat 8 device to aspirate thrombus in pulmonary embolism we just completed enrollment this year the future is hopefully bright for generating more data the PERT consortium registry is up

and running and is hopefully going to help us aggregate data and make better decisions and then you have a couple more devices coming in and I'll tell you our efforts to try to really improve the knowledge base on what CDT for sub

massive P that's the P track trial that's the last bullet point there okay

workflow for pet MRI upon arrival the patient have to fill out questionnaires the MRI screening for contrast and allergy assessment pet screening form

the RT will review MRI screening for after he checked that the patients at MRI safe and no presence of a Mia Ferris fragments or anything he would give the paper to the RN the patient then will be escorted through the change room and

asked to put on robe and non slip shots this is these are the responsibilities of the nurse in our clinical workflow for pet MRI RN to review pet screening form and contrast questionnaire if patient have to receive gadolinium check

kidney function EGFR below 15 you notify the radiologist except for a of s below 30 you notify the radiologist check for allergies if allergic make sure patients is properly pre-medicated

check for Medicaid presence of medication patches and implanted infusion pumps now also you have to check for patient's blood glucose monitoring I have one but I would but I don't go inside the scanner so I'm safe

check for pregnancy status with pediatric patients we have a special process to follow the iron then obtains blood glucose and record if blood glucose is 70 to 199 we proceed with the scan anything above 200 we follow the

glycemic management with PET imaging flow chart and here's how our PET imaging flow chart looks like it looks complicated by its color coded it's three pages but I would like to show you some key points like the administration

of insulin is also based on the level of BMI you see on the arrow says BMI below 25 and there's another flow chart is if it's above 25 after that the patient will be brought back to the pet designated injection room

remember our pet MRI is located in zone three of the MRI area so prior to that the RT would the screen the patient again the patient would pass through the wall-mounted metal detector and nobody could go into song free without escorted

by the IRT or a nurse you have to swipe your ID to open the door mission when the patients in the hot room are in would obtain the height in centimeters and weight in kilos after that the RN now could do IV access once

secured you call the range of pharmacists that you're ready to inject so we wait until and the FDG dose would come up through the pneumatic children this is how our hot lab looks like the pneumatic tube to your left above is the

shower and we have the hoop to prepare for the dose or check for the dose and the wash station and once the those arrives the nurse injecting and the RT is scanning or the RT assisting just always two artists in one machine in our

MRI Department we have four magnets and only one is for MRI PET MRI it's always two artists in each machine so one RT is assisting you and with the patient so once the FDG arrives we do a patient identification using two patient

identifiers we check the label and the dose if it's correct the FDG then will be injected to the patient once injected we tell the patient they have to wait for 40 minutes during this time we instruct them to stay still not stay

still but limit movement and stimulation and inform them that we have a camera inside that room and the nurses in a and the nurses could monitor them in the nurse's station one RT will set up the scanner and computer

and patient will be screen and wondered prior to so on for so you get wandered twice check for ferrous presence patient then will be positioned on the scanner table by the pet mr technologies it takes 15

to 20 minutes for setup you have seen how the patient is position the whole body is covered by the coils and head is covered by another coil as anybody among he works in the institution who requires time out prior to injection raise your

hand please at ms KCC we do this is done by the injecting nurse and the RT is scanning the RT is reading information directly from the monitor not anywhere in the monitor while the nurse is comparing and listening into the using

the documents on hand this is done to ensure the five rights the right patient the right scan the right area your scanning the right contrast those and rate and method of administration as you all know is either given IV push or by

the dynamic or the injector timeout will be done if patient will be receiving gadolinium once the scan is finished IV access will be removed our artists are trying to remove and inject also so they are capable of removing the IV the

radiation card will be handed to the patient and paste after that patient would be assisted to the change room and discharge there is good thing when you change the patient into the robe and the non-skid

sucks because just in case there's a spill you're not sending that patient into the paper outfit they're not gonna be happy at all now I'm gonna bring you

people were thinking about the covered

portion actually actually would be occlusive in that paddock veins a lot of people are concerned about that this could be kind of like a but carry you're gonna actually occlude flow in the paddy vein caused thromboses that didn't pan

out at least clinically okay it didn't pan out and that's another advantage of actually accessing very close to the paddock vein IVC junction that's where the biggest vein is so you don't get a lot of occlusive problems okay but

usually clinically it does not pan out so the bigger the hepatic vein the more likely you have a lot of room around your your graft you won't be occlusive to the paddock vein that's more important for for transplants than other

than others I told you it's rare this is actually a very rare case of such that where you actually have a segmental segmental kind of but carry after a tips okay and you know this is actually from a form of venous outflow from the ematic

vein this is a perfusion defect typical it's a wedge right typical perfusion defect in the liver that's how you death so you know this is vascular this is a perfusion problem but you've got hepatic artery readout artery the red arrows

running into the segments and you have portal vein running into the segments so what's the problem it's actually a paddock vein occlusion okay by the stents subclinical no no clinical complaints you let it be

in the patients usually recover okay treat the patients and not the images okay on the other side if you put their tips too deep sometimes you actually get thromboses of the portal vein branch

again you get a call from hepatology you've got portal vein thrombosis is the patient doing okay yes treat the patient and not the images they usually resolve this it's not not a big problem another technical problem

I'm gonna focus mostly on technical for you guys this is a but key area okay and the but carry especially in the acute stage the liver is not like a cirrhotic liver is big liver is actually engorged okay so it's very large usually

your needle is too short to even reach the portal vein okay that's a big problem okay because your access needle is too short for a very large engorged the portal vein so this is as deep as it

goes do I have a see that that do you see that needle tip that's as deep as the needle tip goes okay the portal vein is a good distance away okay luckily this is a co2 porta gram luckily I'm actually in a small branch right

there I just hit it on you know and on this is not the there's not a needle tract this is just luckily hitting it a little branch and on so I'm actually accessing the portal vein and I can do a co2 porta gram here okay

typical inexperienced person would say you know this looks good I'm lucky I'm in a branch but it's a nice smooth curve I'll just pass a wire down and I'll balloon it and I'll put a stent in it's a nice curve and you know so it's my

lucky day I don't need to extend my needle or get a bigger longer needle to reach the portal vein here's the problem with this and this is exactly what this is exactly what this is they pass a wire and it looks beautiful just put a stent

and go home okay here's the problem this is actually the small branch access sites this is actually where you really need to access world vane but your needle is not long enough okay

what we found out is that if you are in a small in a small portal vein no matter how much you balloon it it will come down again and it will be narrow so believe it or not if you go sideways in a portal vein and rip it open with a

balloon it will stay open but if you go down of small portal vein and balloon it open it will always contract down okay so you cannot do a tips simply by ballooning and putting a stent in in this case okay what we do is we actually

denude the vein itself we actually rip it off okay and make it a raw parenchyma and we do that with a Tortola device we literally rip off the paddock the paddock portal sorry the portal vein endothelium and media and adventitia rip

it off make it completely raw as if it's an access as if it's a liver brain coma which is which it is now and then we then we balloon dilates okay rip it off denude it angioplasty it's okay and then put the stent and see that aggression

despite all that aggression of ripping it off it still has an hour kind of an hourglass shape to the to the tips okay that little constraint there that's the hepatic venous access sites this is the parenchymal tract to see nice and open

with a balloon but the but the actual vein that we've been through despite our aggression in actually ripping it off it's still narrowed down but this is as good as it gets okay

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