Chapters
Hepatocellular Carcinoma, Hepatitis C (Child Pugh A) | Radiofrequency Ablation | 67 | Male
Hepatocellular Carcinoma, Hepatitis C (Child Pugh A) | Radiofrequency Ablation | 67 | Male
2016ablatingablationablationsaccesscentimeterclusterhepatitislesionmicrowaveproberadiofrequencySIRsubcapsulartreatabletumortumors
Sandwich Technique For Treating AAAs Involving The Common Iliac Bifurcations: Experience With 151 Hypogastric Revascularizations: Lessons Learned
Sandwich Technique For Treating AAAs Involving The Common Iliac Bifurcations: Experience With 151 Hypogastric Revascularizations: Lessons Learned
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Update On Experience With The Valiant MONA LSA Single Branched TEVAR Device (From Medtronic) To Treat Lesions Involving The Aortic Arch
Update On Experience With The Valiant MONA LSA Single Branched TEVAR Device (From Medtronic) To Treat Lesions Involving The Aortic Arch
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Routine Use Of Ultrasound To Avoid Complications During Placement Of Tunneled Dialysis Catheters: Analysis Of 2805 Cases
Routine Use Of Ultrasound To Avoid Complications During Placement Of Tunneled Dialysis Catheters: Analysis Of 2805 Cases
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How To Treat By EVAR Complex Aorto-Iliac AAAs In Patients With Renal Transplants, Horseshoe Or Pelvic Kidneys: Technical Tips
How To Treat By EVAR Complex Aorto-Iliac AAAs In Patients With Renal Transplants, Horseshoe Or Pelvic Kidneys: Technical Tips
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Improper And Suboptimal Antiplatelet Treatment Casts Doubt On All CAS Trials: What Are The Implications
Improper And Suboptimal Antiplatelet Treatment Casts Doubt On All CAS Trials: What Are The Implications
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The Biolux Paseo-18 Lux DCB: Advantages And Good Patency Results In Difficult Fempop Lesions
The Biolux Paseo-18 Lux DCB: Advantages And Good Patency Results In Difficult Fempop Lesions
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Endovascular Thrombus Removal In Patients With Paget-Schroetter Syndrome: Use Of The Indigo System
Endovascular Thrombus Removal In Patients With Paget-Schroetter Syndrome: Use Of The Indigo System
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DEBATE: More Small AAAs (45-55 mm In Diameter) Should Be Fixed: Which Ones
DEBATE: More Small AAAs (45-55 mm In Diameter) Should Be Fixed: Which Ones
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Bailout Rescue Procedures When CEA Is Failing In A Critical Unstable Patient: ICA Stent Or Gore Hybrid Graft Or Standard PTFE Bypass: Indications For Each
Bailout Rescue Procedures When CEA Is Failing In A Critical Unstable Patient: ICA Stent Or Gore Hybrid Graft Or Standard PTFE Bypass: Indications For Each
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Is Upper Limb Thrombolysis Justified After The ATTRACT Trial?
Is Upper Limb Thrombolysis Justified After The ATTRACT Trial?
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Thermal Ablation In Anticoagulated Patients: Is It Safe And Effective
Thermal Ablation In Anticoagulated Patients: Is It Safe And Effective
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CMS Policy Update On Nonthermal Ablation
CMS Policy Update On Nonthermal Ablation
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Update On How To Diagnose And Treat Mixed Arterial And Venous Ulcers
Update On How To Diagnose And Treat Mixed Arterial And Venous Ulcers
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Algorithms For Managing Steal Syndrome: When Is Banding Appropriate
Algorithms For Managing Steal Syndrome: When Is Banding Appropriate
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Comparative Cost Effectiveness Of DCBs vs. DESs Favor DESs
Comparative Cost Effectiveness Of DCBs vs. DESs Favor DESs
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Yakes Type I, IIb, IIIa And IIIb: The Curative Retrograde Vein Approach
Yakes Type I, IIb, IIIa And IIIb: The Curative Retrograde Vein Approach
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Estimation Of Long-Term Aortic Risk After EVAR: The LEAR Model: How Can It Guide And Modulate Surveillance Protocols
Estimation Of Long-Term Aortic Risk After EVAR: The LEAR Model: How Can It Guide And Modulate Surveillance Protocols
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Surveillance Protocol And Reinterventions After F/B/EVAR
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New Devices For False Lumen Obliteration With TBADs: Indications And Results
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Technical Tips For The Management Of Cervical And Mediastinal Iatrogenic Artery Injuries: How To Avoid Disasters
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Can You Predict Venous Severity Based On Reflux Time
Can You Predict Venous Severity Based On Reflux Time
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Summary Of Thermal Ablation RCTs
Summary Of Thermal Ablation RCTs
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Surgical Results Of Treating Hepatic Hemangioma And Literature Review
Surgical Results Of Treating Hepatic Hemangioma And Literature Review
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Current Management Of Bleeding Hemodialysis Fistulas: Can The Fistula Be Salvaged
Current Management Of Bleeding Hemodialysis Fistulas: Can The Fistula Be Salvaged
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How To Use Hybrid Operating Rooms Optimally Beyond Vascular Procedures: How The Availability Of Mobile C-Arms Can Help
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4D Ultrasound Evaluation Of AAAs: What Is It; How Can It Help To Predict Growth And Rupture Rates
4D Ultrasound Evaluation Of AAAs: What Is It; How Can It Help To Predict Growth And Rupture Rates
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Importance Of Maintaining Or Restoring Deep Femoral Artery Flow In Open And Endo Revascularizations For CLTI
Importance Of Maintaining Or Restoring Deep Femoral Artery Flow In Open And Endo Revascularizations For CLTI
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Utility Of Duplex Ultrasound For Hemodialysis Access Volume Flow And Velocity Measurements
Utility Of Duplex Ultrasound For Hemodialysis Access Volume Flow And Velocity Measurements
accessaneurysmalbypassclinicalDialysisdiameterduplexdynamicflowflowsgraftluminalmeasurepatientsrenalsensitivityultrasoundveinvelocityversusvolume
Transcript

67 year old male patient, Hepatitis C. We have a huge hepatitis endemic issue in Vancouver,

so we have a lot of patients who come over from Asia with Hepatitis B as well but we have a lot of patients with Hepatitis C as well. So it's Charles Puw/g score of eight and this is the lesion. So single lesion, segment two subcapsular 2.8 centimetres. So just to draw a poll from people in the audience,

what technology would you use and what size probe? >> Cluster. >> Cluster yeah, also scientific, what size? >> Okavidian/g >> Okavidian/g? Cluster Okavidian cluster. Yeah, yeah. Anyone else?

[BLANK_AUDIO] >> [INAUDIBLE] >> Sorry. >> [INAUDIBLE] >> Yeah. You could essentially do anything you want really with this lesion,

the issues here and again Dr. Hutch/g will touch on again access to this tumor and that's something you need to be aware off and when you're planning it, a 2.8 centimeter lesion is a treatable lesion. You should have almost no recurrence with these tumors, the important thing is to plan your ablations that you make sure you get the

entire tumor and you wonder if you can go through some normal of you, you don't want to directly stick this tumor, it's just not a great plan. So there's two things to consider here, one is your entry into the lesion and two is what kind of technology you're

gonna use, whether you use microwave or use radio frequency ablation. Whichever one you use, again as long as you're confident with it, and more importantly that you have a well thought out plan in terms of how you're gonna access this tumor cuz the worst thing you could do here is take a 2.8 centimeter lesion, leave some tumor behind and this patient progresses.

So you can do pretty much anything here microwave, radiofrequency ablation, just whatever you're doing just make sure you're confident with what you're doing. So, I personally use a lot of radiofrequency ablation still but we still we do use microwave quite a lot to this,

you can see the ultrasound, we used microwave PR15 probe 65W which burn for longer and you can see the ablation. And he did really well afterwards, we used one probe probably should have used two, but we got away with one,

we got quite a big ablation and his follow up CT looked really really good. So whatever you're doing just make sure that you've got a good sort of access or good access into your tumor, make sure that you're ablating the whole thing,

the last thing you wanna do with these tumors that are three centimeters or below is leave some tumor behind cuz that's the worst thing you could do for the patient. So this is another case, a 57 year old,

- Thank you. I have a little disclosure. I've got to give some, or rather, quickly point out the technique. First apply the stet graph as close as possible to the hypogastric artery.

As you can see here, the end of distal graft. Next step, come from the left brachial you can lay the catheter in the hypogastric artery. And then come from both

as you can see here, with this verge catheter and you put in position the culver stent, and from the femoral you just put in position the iliac limb orthostatic graft.

The next step, apply the stent graft, the iliac limb stent graft, keep the viabahn and deployed it in more the part here. What you have here is five centimeter overlap to avoid Type I endoleak.

The next step, use a latex balloon, track over to the iliac limb, and keep until the, as you can see here, the viabahn is still undeployed. In the end of the procedure,

at least one and a half centimeters on both the iliac lumen to avoid occlusion to viabahn. So we're going to talk about our ten years since I first did my first description of this technique. We do have the inclusion criteria

that's very important to see that I can't use the Sandwich Technique with iliac lumen unless they are bigger than eight millimeters. That's one advantage of this technique. I can't use also in the very small length

of common iliac artery and external iliac artery and I need at least four millimeters of the hypogastric artery. The majority patients are 73 age years old. Majority males. Hypertension, a lot of comorbidity of oldest patients.

But the more important, here you can see, when you compare the groups with the high iliac artery and aneurismal diameter and treat with the Sandwich Technique, you can see here actually it's statistically significant

that I can treat patient with a very small real lumen regarding they has in total diameter bigger size but I can treat with very small lumen. That's one of the advantages of this technique. You can see the right side and also in the left side. So all situations, I can treat very small lumen

of the aneurysm. The next step so you can show here is about we performed this on 151 patients. Forty of these patients was bilateral. That's my approach of that. And you can see, the procedure time,

the fluoroscope time is higher in the group that I performed bilaterally. And the contrast volume tends to be more in the bilateral group. But ICU stay, length of stay, and follow up is no different between these two groups.

The technical success are 96.7%. Early mortality only in three patients, one patient. Late mortality in 8.51 patients. Only one was related with AMI. Reintervention rate is 5, almost 5.7 percent. Buttock claudication rate is very, very rare.

You cannot find this when you do Sandwich Technique bilaterally. And about the endoleaks, I have almost 18.5% of endoleaks. The majority of them was Type II endoleaks. I have some Type late endoleaks

also the majority of them was Type II endoleaks. And about the other complications I will just remark that I do not have any neurological complications because I came from the left brachial. And as well I do not have colon ischemia

and spinal cord ischemia rate. And all about the evolution of the aneurysm sac. You'll see the majority, almost two-thirds have degrees of the aneurysm sac diameter. And some of these patients

we get some degrees but basically still have some Type II endoleak. That's another very interesting point of view. So you can see here, pre and post, decrease of the aneurysm sac.

You see the common iliac artery pre and post decreasing and the hypogastric also decreasing. So in conclusion, the Sandwich Technique facilitates safe and effective aneurysm exclusion

and target vessel revascularization in adverse anatomical scenarios with sustained durability in midterm follow-up. Thank you very much for attention.

- Relevant disclosures are shown in this slide. So when we treat patients with Multi-Segment Disease, the more segments that are involved, the more complex the outcomes that we should expect, with regards to the patient comorbidities and the complexity of the operation. And this is made even more complex

when we add aortic dissection to the patient population. We know that a large proportion of patients who undergo Thoracic Endovascular Aortic Repair, require planned coverage of the left subclavian artery. And this also been demonstrated that it's an increase risk for stroke, spinal cord ischemia and other complications.

What are the options when we have to cover the left subclavian artery? Well we can just cover the artery, we no that. That's commonly performed in emergency situations. The current standard is to bypass or transpose the artery. Or provide a totally endovascular revascularization option

with some off-label use , such as In Situ or In Vitro Fenestration, Parallel Grafting or hopefully soon we will see and will have available branched graft devices. These devices are currently investigational and the focus today's talk will be this one,

the Valiant Mona Lisa Stent Graft System. Currently the main body device is available in diameters between thirty and forty-six millimeters and they are all fifteen centimeters long. The device is designed with flexible cuff, which mimics what we call the "volcano" on the main body.

It's a pivotal connection. And it's a two wire pre-loaded system with a main system wire and a wire through the left subclavian artery branch. And this has predominately been delivered with a through and through wire of

that left subclavian branch. The system is based on the valiant device with tip capture. The left subclavian artery branch is also unique to this system. It's a nitinol helical stent, with polyester fabric. It has a proximal flare,

which allows fixation in that volcano cone. Comes in three diameters and they're all the same length, forty millimeters, with a fifteen french profile. The delivery system, which is delivered from the groin, same access point as the main body device. We did complete the early feasibility study

with nine subjects at three sites. The goals were to validate the procedure, assess safety, and collect imaging data. We did publish that a couple of years ago. Here's a case demonstration. This was a sixty-nine year old female

with a descending thoracic aneurysm at five and a half centimeters. The patient's anatomy met the criteria. We selected a thirty-four millimeter diameter device, with a twelve millimeter branch. And we chose to extend this repair down to the celiac artery

in this patient. The pre-operative CT scan looks like this. The aneurysm looks bigger with thrombus in it of course, but that was the device we got around the corner of that arch to get our seal. Access is obtained both from the groin

and from the arm as is common with many TEVAR procedures. Here we have the device up in the aorta. There's our access from the arm. We had a separate puncture for a "pigtail". Once the device is in position, we "snare" the wire, we confirm that we don't have

any "wire wrap". You can see we went into a areal position to doubly confirm that. And then the device is expanded, and as it's on sheath, it does creep forward a bit. And we have capture with that through and through wire

and tension on that through and through wire, while we expand the rest of the device. And you can see that the volcano is aligned right underneath the left subclavian artery. There's markers there where there's two rings, the outer and the inner ring of that volcano.

Once the device is deployed with that through and through wire access, we deliver the branch into the left subclavian artery. This is a slow deployment, so that we align the flair within the volcano and that volcano is flexible. In some patients, it sort of sits right at the level of

the aorta, like you see in this patient. Sometimes it protrudes. It doesn't really matter, as long as the two things are mated together. There is some flexibility built in the system. In this particular patient,

we had a little leak, so we were able to balloon this as we would any others. For a TEVAR, we just balloon both devices at the same time. Completion Angiogram shown here and we had an excellent result with this patient at six months and at a year the aneurysm continued

to re-sorb. In that series, we had successful delivery and deployment of all the devices. The duration of the procedure has improved with time. Several of these patients required an extension. We are in the feasibility phase.

We've added additional centers and we continue to enroll patients. And one of the things that we've learned is that details about the association between branches and the disease are critical. And patient selection is critical.

And we will continue to complete enrollment for the feasibility and hopefully we will see the pivotal studies start soon. Thank you very much

- I want to thank the organizers for putting together such an excellent symposium. This is quite unique in our field. So the number of dialysis patients in the US is on the order of 700 thousand as of 2015, which is the last USRDS that's available. The reality is that adrenal disease is increasing worldwide

and the need for access is increasing. Of course fistula first is an important portion of what we do for these patients. But the reality is 80 to 90% of these patients end up starting with a tunneled dialysis catheter. While placement of a tunneled dialysis catheter

is considered fairly routine, it's also clearly associated with a small chance of mechanical complications on the order of 1% at least with bleeding or hema pneumothorax. And when we've looked through the literature, we can notice that these issues

that have been looked at have been, the literature is somewhat old. It seemed to be at variance of what our clinical practice was. So we decided, let's go look back at our data. Inpatients who underwent placement

of a tunneled dialysis catheter between 1998 and 2017 reviewed all their catheters. These are all inpatients. We have a 2,220 Tesio catheter places, in 1,400 different patients. 93% of them placed on the right side

and all the catheters were placed with ultrasound guidance for the puncture. Now the puncture in general was performed with an 18 gauge needle. However, if we notice that the vein was somewhat collapsing with respiratory variation,

then we would use a routinely use a micropuncture set. All of the patients after the procedures had chest x-ray performed at the end of the procedure. Just to document that everything was okay. The patients had the classic risk factors that you'd expect. They're old, diabetes, hypertension,

coronary artery disease, et cetera. In this consecutive series, we had no case of post operative hemo or pneumothorax. We had two cut downs, however, for arterial bleeding from branches of the external carotid artery that we couldn't see very well,

and when we took out the dilator, patient started to bleed. We had three patients in the series that had to have a subsequent revision of the catheter due to mal positioning of the catheter. We suggest that using modern day techniques

with ultrasound guidance that you can minimize your incidents of mechanical complications for tunnel dialysis catheter placement. We also suggest that other centers need to confirm this data using ultrasound guidance as a routine portion of the cannulation

of the internal jugular veins. The KDOQI guidelines actually do suggest the routine use of duplex ultrasonography for placement of tunnel dialysis catheters, but this really hasn't been incorporated in much of the literature outside of KDOQI.

We would suggest that it may actually be something that may be worth putting into the surgical critical care literature also. Now having said that, not everything was all roses. We did have some cases where things didn't go

so straight forward. We want to drill down a little bit into this also. We had 35 patients when we put, after we cannulated the vein, we can see that it was patent. If it wasn't we'd go to the other side

or do something else. But in 35%, 35 patients, we can put the needle into the vein and get good flashback but the wire won't go down into the central circulation.

Those patients, we would routinely do a venogram, we would try to cross the lesion if we saw a lesion. If it was a chronically occluded vein, and we weren't able to cross it, we would just go to another site. Those venograms, however, gave us some information.

On occasion, the vein which is torturous for some reason or another, we did a venogram, it was torturous. We rolled across the vein and completed the procedure. In six of the patients, the veins were chronically occluded

and we had to go someplace else. In 20 patients, however, they had prior cannulation in the central vein at some time, remote. There was a severe stenosis of the intrathoracic veins. In 19 of those cases, we were able to cross the lesion in the central veins.

Do a balloon angioplasty with an 8 millimeter balloon and then place the catheter. One additional case, however, do the balloon angioplasty but we were still not able to place the catheter and we had to go to another site.

Seven of these lesions underwent balloon angioplasty of the innominate vein. 11 of them were in the proximal internal jugular vein, and two of them were in the superior vena cava. We had no subsequent severe swelling of the neck, arm, or face,

despite having a stenotic vein that we just put a catheter into, and no subsequent DVT on duplexes that were obtained after these procedures. Based on these data, we suggest that venous balloon angioplasty can be used in these patients

to maintain the site of an access, even with the stenotic vein that if your wire doesn't go down on the first pass, don't abandon the vein, shoot a little dye, see what the problem is,

and you may be able to use that vein still and maintain the other arm for AV access or fistular graft or whatever they need. Based upon these data, we feel that using ultrasound guidance should be a routine portion of these procedures,

and venoplasty should be performed when the wire is not passing for a central vein problem. Thank you.

- Good morning, thank you, Dr. Veith, for the invitation. My disclosures. So, renal artery anomalies, fairly rare. Renal ectopia and fusion, leading to horseshoe kidneys or pelvic kidneys, are fairly rare, in less than one percent of the population. Renal transplants, that is patients with existing

renal transplants who develop aneurysms, clearly these are patients who are 10 to 20 or more years beyond their initial transplantation, or maybe an increasing number of patients that are developing aneurysms and are treated. All of these involve a renal artery origin that is

near the aortic bifurcation or into the iliac arteries, making potential repair options limited. So this is a personal, clinical series, over an eight year span, when I was at the University of South Florida & Tampa, that's 18 patients, nine renal transplants, six congenital

pelvic kidneys, three horseshoe kidneys, with varied aorto-iliac aneurysmal pathologies, it leaves half of these patients have iliac artery pathologies on top of their aortic aneurysms, or in place of the making repair options fairly difficult. Over half of the patients had renal insufficiency

and renal protective maneuvers were used in all patients in this trial with those measures listed on the slide. All of these were elective cases, all were technically successful, with a fair amount of followup afterward. The reconstruction priorities or goals of the operation are to maintain blood flow to that atypical kidney,

except in circumstances where there were multiple renal arteries, and then a small accessory renal artery would be covered with a potential endovascular solution, and to exclude the aneurysms with adequate fixation lengths. So, in this experience, we were able, I was able to treat eight of the 18 patients with a fairly straightforward

endovascular solution, aorto-biiliac or aorto-aortic endografts. There were four patients all requiring open reconstructions without any obvious endovascular or hybrid options, but I'd like to focus on these hybrid options, several of these, an endohybrid approach using aorto-iliac

endografts, cross femoral bypass in some form of iliac embolization with an attempt to try to maintain flow to hypogastric arteries and maintain antegrade flow into that pelvic atypical renal artery, and a open hybrid approach where a renal artery can be transposed, and endografting a solution can be utilized.

The overall outcomes, fairly poor survival of these patients with a 50% survival at approximately two years, but there were no aortic related mortalities, all the renal artery reconstructions were patented last followup by Duplex or CT imaging. No aneurysms ruptures or aortic reinterventions or open

conversions were needed. So, focus specifically in a treatment algorithm, here in this complex group of patients, I think if the atypical renal artery comes off distal aorta, you have several treatment options. Most of these are going to be open, but if it is a small

accessory with multiple renal arteries, such as in certain cases of horseshoe kidneys, you may be able to get away with an endovascular approach with coverage of those small accessory arteries, an open hybrid approach which we utilized in a single case in the series with open transposition through a limited

incision from the distal aorta down to the distal iliac, and then actually a fenestrated endovascular repair of his complex aneurysm. Finally, an open approach, where direct aorto-ilio-femoral reconstruction with a bypass and reimplantation of that renal artery was done,

but in the patients with atypical renals off the iliac segment, I think you utilizing these endohybrid options can come up with some creative solutions, and utilize, if there is some common iliac occlusive disease or aneurysmal disease, you can maintain antegrade flow into these renal arteries from the pelvis

and utilize cross femoral bypass and contralateral occlusions. So, good options with AUIs, with an endohybrid approach in these difficult patients. Thank you.

- Thank you very much. I'm going to talk on Improper and Suboptimal Antiplatelet Therapy which is probably currently the standard on most carotid angioplasty stent trials and I'm going to show you how it could potentially affect all of the results we have seen so far. I have nothing to disclose.

So introduction, based on the composite end point of stroke/death in our technical trials, they're always, in all randomized trials Endarterectomy always did marginally better than Carotid angioplasty and stenting. However, a small shift, just about a one person shift

could make carotid artery stenting better could shift the results of all these carotid stent trials. Let's just look at CREST. I think it's the gold standard for randomized trial comparing endarterectomy with stenting. You can see the combined death, streak and MI rate.

For endarterectomy, it's 6.8%, for CAS, 7.2%. For stroke, again 2.3, 4.1. Again, it's a one person shift in a direction of making stents better could actually show that stents were favorable, but comparable to it, not just inferior.

Now if you look at the data on CREST, it's very interesting that the majority of the strokes, about 80% of the strokes happened after about 24 hours. In fact, most of them happened on the third day period. So it wasn't a technical issue. You know, the biggest issue with current stenting

that we find is that we have filters, we have floor reversal. They're very worried about the time we place the stent, that we balloon, pre- and post-, but it wasn't a technical issue. Something was happening after 24 hours.

Another interesting fact that no one speaks about is if you look at the CREST data a little bit in more detail, most of the mortality associated with the stenting was actually associated with an access site bleed.

So if you could really decrease the late strokes, if you can decrease the access site bleeds, I think stents can be performed better than endarterectomies. The study design for all stent trials, there was a mandatory dual antiplatelet therapy.

Almost all patients had to be on aspirin and Plavix and on CREST, interestingly, they had to be on 75 milligrams BID for Plavix so they were all on very high dose Plavix. Now here's the interesting thing about Plavix that most people don't know.

Plavix is what is called a pro-drug. It requires to be converted to its active component by the liver for antiplatelet effect. And the particular liver enzyme that converts Plavix to its active metabolic enzyme is very variable patient to patient

and you're born that way. You're either born where you can convert its active metabolite or you can't convert it to its active metabolite and a test that's called 2C19 is actually interesting approved and covered by Medicare and here's the people

that read the black box warning for Plavix, that looked at the package insert. I just cut and paste this on the package that said for Plavix. I'm just showing you a few lines from the package insert. Now next to aspirin, it's the commonest prescribed drug

by vascular specialists, but most people probably have not looked at the package insert that says effectiveness of Plavix depends on activation by a liver enzyme called 2C19 and goes on to say that tests are available to identify to 2C19 genotype.

And then they go on to actually give you a recommendation on the package insert that says consider alternative treatment strategies in patients identified as 2C19 poor metabolizers. Now these are the people who cannot metabolize Plavix and convert them to its active metabolite.

So let's look at the actual incidents. Now we know there is resistance to, in some patients, to aspirin, but the incident is so small it doesn't make worth our time or doesn't make it worth the patient's outcome to be able to test everyone for aspirin resistance,

but look at the incidents for Plavix resistance. Again, this is just a slide explaining what does resistance mean so if you're a normal metabolizer, which we hope that most of us would be, you're going to expect advocacy from Plavix at 75 milligrams once a day.

Other hand, let's say you're a rapid or ultrarapid metabolizer. You have a much higher risk of bleeding. And then if you go to the other side where you are normal, intermediate or poor metabolizer, you're not going to convert Plavix to its active metabolite

and poor metabolizers, it's like giving a placebo. And interestingly, I'm a poor metabolizer. I got myself tested. If I ever have a cardiac interventionalist give me Plavix, they're giving me a placebo. So let's look at the actual incidents

of all these subsets in patients and see whether that's going to be an issue. So we took this from about 7,000 patients and interestingly in only about 40%, NM stands for nominal metabolizer or normal metabolizers. So only 40% get the expected efficacy of Plavix.

Let's look at just the extremes. Let's just assume people with normal metabolizers, normal intermediate and the subgroup between the ultra rapid, the normals, they're all going to respond well to Plavix. Let's just look at the extremes.

Ultra rapid and poor metabolizers. So these are the people who are going to convert Plavix to a much higher concentration of its active metabolite, but have a much higher risk of bleeding. Ultra rapid metabolizers. Poor metabolizers, Plavix doesn't work.

4%, 3%. That's not a small incidence. Now in no way am I saying that carotid stent trials itselves are totally based on Plavix resistance, but just look at the data from CREST. Let's say the patients with poor metabolizers,

that's 3%, so these people did not get Plavix. Plavix does not affect you in doses of up to 600 milligram for people with poor metabolizers. Incidents of embolic events in CREST trial for carotid stents was 4%. This happened after three days.

I believe it's possibly related to platelet debris occurring in the stent on people who did not receive a liquid anti-platelet therapy. How about the people who had the groin bleed? Remember I told you that access site bleeds were most highly predictable mortality.

If you're the ultra rapid metabolizers, that incidence was 4%. So these were the people that convert Plavix with a very high dose of active metabolite, very high risk of bleeding. Access site bleed rate,

if you look at the major/minor rates, 4.1%, very close to the ultra rapid metabolizers. So fact remains that carotid angioplasty stenting post procedure events are highly dependent on appropriate antiplatelet therapy to minimize embolic events and to decrease groin bleeds.

So in conclusion, if we just included 2C19 normal metabolizers, as was recommended by the packaging insert, so just test the people, include the people on normal metabolizers, exclude the rest, we are probably going to shift the results in favor of carotid angioplasty and stenting.

Results of all carotid angioplasty stent trials need to be questioned as a significant number of patients in the carotid angioplasty stent arm did not receive appropriate antiplatelet therapy. Thank you very much.

- Yeah, thank you very much. We all know that DCBs are kind of a workhorse right now for SFA-PA disease but when it comes, this has been proven randomized controlled studies, but when it comes to real world patients this might not have been included in the randomized conduit study and therefore

these registries are very available. And I present on this BIOLUX P-III study [Unintelligible] the standard versus the non-standard sub-group. This is just a quick overlook about the Passeo-18 Lux DCB it's an O-18 platform, has three micrograms

[Unintelligible] Paclitaxel on the balloon The excipient is a BTHC and this is an hydrophobic excipient and the sizes available are from two to seven millimeter in diameter and four 80 and 100 millimeter in length. This is the overlooks about the Passeo-18 Lux

they are out there, we have from phase one to phase three studies, randomized controlled and global registries. 1,600 patients including in this clinical program. With regard to the full cohort at 12 month we have now 878 patients available, you see with regard to the clinical characteristics

heavy smokers... a high percentage of smokers, high percentage of diabetes, more than 40% of CLI, 76% calcified lesions, the lesion length was around 9 centimeter and one-third of the patients had TASC C or D lesions. This is a higher payload stenting rate

this is not surprising with this complex cohort about 20% and with that the primary patency of the full cohort at 12 months is 84.3% and the freedom from clinical driven TLR is 93.5%. So this is the overlook of the full cohort at 12 months. With regard to the different subgroups you see

you have a consistent freedom from clinical driven TLR primary patency and freedom from major target limb amputation throughout all the subgroups. And I just now want to highlight the bail-out stented versus the DCB only group because this follows the concept of the so-called leave, at least leave less behind

as possible, this so-called spot-stenting concept. Out of this 878 patients we had 715 treated with a DCB only and in the bail-out stent group we had 163 patients. The patients in the bail-out stented group had a longer lesion length... 11 compared to 8 centimeters

in the DCB only group. With regard to all the others correctors there was no difference besides TASC C and D lesions there had been a higher percentage of TASC C and D lesions in the bail-out stented group than in the DCB only group.

We did the same vessel prep for both arms and with that we had the freedom from clinical driven TLR in the bail-out stented group of 92.8 compared to 92.2% in DCB only group. Primary patency was a little bit lower but freedom from a major adverse event

at 12 months was the same. When we bring this into context to other randomized, other real-world data out there freedom from clinical driven TLR in comparison to the In.Pact global stented group is the same as well as in the Lutonix global stented group.

With regard to freedom from major adverse event we can only refer to the In.Pact global stented group which is the same. So just let me conclude the Passeo-18 Biolux P-III study continues to show consistent, clinical performance of the Passeo-18 Lux Drug Coated Balloon

throughout all subgroups. There is no difference in clinical performance between DCB only versus payload stented even for the bail-out stented group had more complex lesions and the results of the Biolux P-III payload stenting subgroups are in line with the results

of current Global registries stented subgroups. Thank you very much.

- [Speaker] Thank you. My disclosures. So upper extremity dvt occurs in 4-10% of all causes of venous thrombosis. And while a minority, dvt in the upper extremity can often be caused by thoracic outlet syndrome, effort thrombosis, occasionally

idiopathic venous thrombosis. The majority is more likely related to central venous catheters, pacemakers, cancer, etc. This is some of the presentation of someone with Paget Schroeder or venous thoracic outlet syndrome, we're all well aware of this.

Some features of this can be sudden onset of pain, discoloration and some of this subcutaneous collateral veins that we note. Initial treatment of this is traditionally with venous thrombolysis. Although the results are good, this thrombolysis can

be associated with bleeding complications, potential for renal insufficiency, prolonged dwell times, and increased cost. I think it's important that this is not just a talk about a technique but a technique in the context of an operation this is soon to come.

Whether you choose to take out the rib at the same setting or you choose to delay the operation by a week or two, by and large the complications associated with that venous thrombolysis are going to come back and haunt you in the next operations. I think that's the context of this talk.

One of the risks I just mentioned about some of these techniques is, that's sort of curious to me, is the acute kidney injury after AngioJet venous thrombolysis. You see here, this paper, of a hundred patients, 50 AngioJet, 50 catheter directed thrombolysis, shows a statistical significantly

increased risk of acute kidney failure in the AngioJet group. Eight fold odds ratio. The Indigo system enables operators to remove the thrombus in a single setting, while potentially reducing or eliminating the need for thrombolysis.

This has already been discussed by some of the prior speakers, you see the different iterations first introduced in 2014. The CAT8 is the largest device and you can see some of the features of this proprietary technology with the separator and the directional sheaths that

allow us to aspirate nicely. This continuous suction you see here, can be very nicely controlled with an on-off switch that minimizes blood loss. It's single operator design, very easy to set up, hands free aspiration, a very simple set up.

You also heard just recently about the volume that can be aspirated in 20 seconds you see, especially with the larger profile devices, quite impressive amount of thrombus can be removed. Again, with the careful control for blood loss. The directionality of the sheath is also important,

and you can see some of the different directionality sheaths. Here's a couple case examples of a Paget-Schroder patient comes in with an acute sudden onset of arm pain and swelling discoloration, and you can see the penumbra device being used to clean out that vein.

This is another example, a 25-year old male with acute right arm swelling, sort of a body lifter type, and you can see here, this is the separator that's being moved forward and backwards, in and out to help break out the thrombus. This is the CAT8 device.

The pre-intervention picture seen here, we're crossing the lesion with a wire and and you can see the post-intervention on the right. You, of course, have the venous compression from the first rib, thoracic outlet, but the vein is widely open and now we can go ahead and see

the specimen that's retrieved as you've seen other videos in the prior presentations. This, of course, is what we're left with at the time of surgery. I only bring this up to remind us that there is a second stage to this treatment,

which is the rib resection. A combined experience that I just want to put together, very small numbers of course but, 16 patients with thoracic outlet who presented and were treated with the Penumbra system. You can see here, some of the demographic data.

I'll just point out the symptoms, of course, pain, swelling in these patients, imaging mostly venous duplex, occasionally CT or MR venogram. They all of course get venography at the time of procedure. The extent of the thrombus in all of them was complete occlusion and you can see some

of the extent in the subclavian axillary veins. Site of access can be the brachial or the basilic vein. The operative details as well, shown here, and I'll just point out the estimated blood loss, it can be very reasonable, especially with some experience you can sort of control that

on-off valve and minimize blood loss with this technique. Adjunctive therapies are shown here and of course, maybe because we're a little bit stuck on our ways, we did have a fair number of adjunctive lytic therapy. There were only three patients who had overnight lysis. A lot of venoplasty done at the time of the procedure.

All veins remained patent until the day of the rib resection but I will point out that one of these patients did develop a significant complication with hemothorax. This is one of those patients who had overnight lysis. And I point that out to stress that perhaps

this is what we're trying to move away from. So, in conclusion, mechanicothrombectomy using Indigo device shows promising initial results. Minimal blood loss, one complication of the hemothroax with the overnight lytics. No renal insufficiency or distal embolization.

The practice pattern, I think, need to adjust away from routing lytics to additionally minimize complications prior to surgery. Thank you.

- Hello, good morning. Thanks Veith for the invitation. Mister Chairman, ladies and gentlemen. I don't have to disclose anything regarding my talk. We know all that, according to the guidelines, the diameter of 5.5 has been set as the limit

in order to intervene. And this mostly has been derived from the small AAA trails regarding prophylactic open surgery, or EVAR versus surveillance, which show that there is no clear benefit

in when you intervene early. But, if we look in the studies we can see that there is several deficiencies in terms of the image of mortality they used, as well as the range of the diameter they used in order to define what is a small aneurism

and we know that there is great discrepancy between the measurements we get from their ultrasound as compared to their CT scan. Which is an important issue. And also, we know that from the UK trial, that the mortality was quite high.

Which is a very important element, when they base their results, as well as 61 percent of the group, in the surveillance, underwent repair during the follow up period. And also there is overwhelming evidence which shows

that when you intervene by endovascular means, seems small aneurysms might have better outcomes. And it appears that the guidelines from the societies is not convincing enough to be applicable. The real world experiences, it has been shown that many small aneurysms have been operated on.

And in this particular, very recent international registry, it was demonstrated that small aneurysms still may rupture, as it was 11 percent of the ruptured aneurysms which were less than 5.5 in diameter. Then the question is, are all these aneurysms the same? Or there are some which should be treated?

Even the guidelines has identified some group of patients at increased risk for rupture having small aneurism. Bu, beyond diameter, as you can see here, the volume may be important issue. 40 percent of patients with a small aneurism, had a stable diameter but increased volume,

as well as it has demonstrated that there is no significant correlation between AAA diameter and the mechanical properties. Also anatomical characteristics may play important role in the risk of rupture, as well as the metabolic activity of the aortic wall,

because of inflammation may play important role, as it was shown very recently in the SoFIA study, which have shown that patients that are at the higher tertile of sodium fluoride uptake, have a higher risk of sack expansion, rupture and need for intervention.

And also important issues that when you define what is small aneurism, probably the five to 5.5 centimeters aneurism have different natural history from the rest ones and fortunately all the small abdominal trials haven't looked specifically in this particular sub group.

Therefore Mister Chairman, ladies and gentlemen, my conclusions are that the diameter is not the only absolute criteria for risk assessment. Small aneurysms do rupture. Certain factors beyond diameter appear to increase the risk of rupture among the so-called small aneurysms.

Randomized controlled trials on open repair and EVAR versus surveillance, in small AAAs have serious methodological problems. All EVARs is not the same and probably we have to look specifically in that group of five to 5.4 centimeters in diameter,

which may not have the same natural history. And for these reasons I still believe that the jury is out and we need more research in order to settle this issue. Thank you very much for your attention. (applause)

- Thank you very much, Frank, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have no disclosure. Standard carotid endarterectomy patch-plasty and eversion remain the gold standard of treatment of symptomatic and asymptomatic patient with significant stenosis. One important lesson we learn in the last 50 years

of trial and tribulation is the majority of perioperative and post-perioperative stroke are related to technical imperfection rather than clamping ischemia. And so the importance of the technical accuracy of doing the endarterectomy. In ideal world the endarterectomy shouldn't be (mumbling).

It should contain embolic material. Shouldn't be too thin. While this is feasible in the majority of the patient, we know that when in clinical practice some patient with long plaque or transmural lesion, or when we're operating a lesion post-radiation,

it could be very challenging. Carotid bypass, very popular in the '80s, has been advocated as an alternative of carotid endarterectomy, and it doesn't matter if you use a vein or a PTFE graft. The result are quite durable. (mumbling) showing this in 198 consecutive cases

that the patency, primary patency rate was 97.9% in 10 years, so is quite a durable procedure. Nowadays we are treating carotid lesion with stinting, and the stinting has been also advocated as a complementary treatment, but not for a bail out, but immediately after a completion study where it

was unsatisfactory. Gore hybrid graft has been introduced in the market five years ago, and it was the natural evolution of the vortec technique that (mumbling) published a few years before, and it's a technique of a non-suture anastomosis.

And this basically a heparin-bounded bypass with the Nitinol section then expand. At King's we are very busy at the center, but we did 40 bypass for bail out procedure. The technique with the Gore hybrid graft is quite stressful where the constrained natural stint is inserted

inside internal carotid artery. It's got the same size of a (mumbling) shunt, and then the plumbing line is pulled, and than anastomosis is done. The proximal anastomosis is performed in the usual fashion with six (mumbling), and the (mumbling) was reimplanted

selectively. This one is what look like in the real life the patient with the personal degradation, the carotid hybrid bypass inserted and the external carotid artery were implanted. Initially we very, very enthusiastic, so we did the first cases with excellent result.

In total since November 19, 2014 we perform 19 procedure. All the patient would follow up with duplex scan and the CT angiogram post operation. During the follow up four cases block. The last two were really the two very high degree stenosis. And the common denominator was that all the patients

stop one of the dual anti-platelet treatment. They were stenosis wise around 40%, but only 13% the significant one. This one is one of the patient that developed significant stenosis after two years, and you can see in the typical position at the end of the stint.

This one is another patient who develop a quite high stenosis at proximal end. Our patency rate is much lower than the one report by Rico. So in conclusion, ladies and gentlemen, the carotid endarterectomy remain still the gold standard,

and (mumbling) carotid is usually an afterthought. Carotid bypass is a durable procedure. It should be in the repertoire of every vascular surgeon undertaking carotid endarterectomy. Gore hybrid was a promising technology because unfortunate it's been just not produced by Gore anymore,

and unfortunately it carried quite high rate of restenosis that probably we should start to treat it in the future. Thank you very much for your attention.

- Thank you very much for the very kind invitation, and I promise I'll do my best to stick to time. The answer is probably to this audience I don't really need to say very much about the ATTRACT trial, but I think it is quite important to note that the ATTRACT trials have now been out for some time, and it is constantly being

talked about in its various dimensions. So I'm going to just spend a few seconds really talking about the ATTRACT trial. A large number of patients screened. One in 41 patients were actually recruited into it and it was a trial that ran for a long time.

Wasn't really with respect to the primary endpoint any particularly good evidence, but for those people who had moderate or severe post-thrombotic syndrome, it probably was of benefit. And if you looked at the Villalta score

and the VCSS scores there was some evidence to support it. So overall, probably some positive take-home messages, but not as affirmative as people would have thought. Now the reason that I've dwelled a little bit on that is that actually, what do we mean when we talk about the post-thrombotic syndrome?

Because I would say in the upper limb, because I have never personally seen an ulcer in the upper limb. Has anybody seen an ulcer in the upper limb due to venous disease? No.

So in a way we are talking about a slightly different entity. We are talking about a limb that has undoubtedly much more finer movements. And there was depression by some people with the results of the ATTRACT trial.

But when you look at the five year results from the CaVenT trial, there was some evidence to suggest that actually, as you get further out, there may be some benefit. If you look at this summation analysis, and I completely accept this is related to the leg,

again, there may be some benefit from the CDT. Now, this is a case of mine. Now I wonder if any of you can tell me how many stages may have been involved from going from the right, to having a ballonplasty in the vein. Pick a number, anywhere between five and ten.

The answer is you have numerous checks of the thrombolysis, you may have a venoplasty, you might have a first rib excision. You may then have occlusion and then realize this before you go on and do the first rib. So all I'm suggesting to you that this is not

a cheap treatment to offer patients treatment to the upper limb. Then we looked forward to some help from the guidelines. Well we look at the American guidelines and give or take, I think the answer is we probably shouldn't be doing it and that we should be only offering anticoagulation.

So do the Brits help? Well actually if you look at the Brits, it sort of says well, you can think a bit about doing decompression, but really if I was standing up in a court of law, I really wouldn't want much support from this guideline

that I had done the right thing. And then the International Society of Thrombolysis and Hemostasis really says well, you can do a little bit of this that thoracic outlet syndrome may be a risk factor. But give or take, surgeries still are a little bit dubious.

So, really there's one good review out there, and this is the review of Vasquez that basically looked at 146 articles, and they found some data on just under 1300 patients. And they postulated and chose some evidence to suggest that there was some evidence

that first rib excision and thrombolysis reduce PTS, and that anticoagulation alone was not enough for the majority of the patients. Very difficult to work out how you selected which patients you should or should not intervene on. Now, I'm sure everybody is rather sick and tired

of me talking about money, and I accept it doesn't really apply here. But money is actually quite important. Five interventions to prevent something that may not happen and at worst may be just a few collateral veins across the chest.

So ladies and gentlemen, I would want you to think very hard, is it actually cost-effective to be offering all patients presenting with an early auxiliary vein thrombosis thrombolysis, and then subsequently first rib excision? These are some of the truths, I think the answer is

it does seem to work. You do need to recognize and make the diagnosis. Usually delayed thrombolysis doesn't work, but there are lots of questions that are unanswered. And how would you defend what you have done in a court of law?

Somebody has a stroke, you then do the first rib, they get a large hemothorax, and they then die because there had been too much TPA on board. Yes, give it some thought. So ladies and gentlemen, I'm afraid I haven't actually answered the question,

but I think you need to give it careful consideration, what are the indications and merits? Thank you very much.

Thanks very much, Tom. I'll be talking about thermal ablation on anticoagula is it safe and effective? I have no disclosures. As we know, extensive review of both RF and laser

ablation procedures have demonstrated excellent treatment effectiveness and durability in each modality, but there is less data regarding treatment effectiveness and durability for those procedures in patients who are also on systemic anticoagulation. As we know, there's multiple studies have been done

over the past 10 years, with which we're all most familiar showing a percent of the durable ablation, both modalities from 87% to 95% at two to five years. There's less data on those on the anticoagulation undergoing thermal ablation.

The largest study with any long-term follow up was by Sharifi in 2011, and that was 88 patients and follow-up at one year. Both RF and the EVLA had 100% durable ablation with minimal bleeding complications. The other studies were all smaller groups

or for very much shorter follow-up. In 2017, a very large study came out, looking at the EVLA and RF using 375 subjects undergoing with anticoagulation. But it was only a 30-day follow-up, but it did show a 30% durable ablation

at that short time interval. Our objective was to evaluate efficacy, durability, and safety of RF and EVLA, the GSV and the SSV to treat symptomatic reflux in patients on therapeutic anticoagulation, and this group is with warfarin.

The data was collected from NYU, single-center. Patients who had undergone RF or laser ablation between 2011 and 2013. Ninety-two vessels of patients on warfarin at the time of endothermal ablation were selected for study. That's the largest to date with some long-term follow-up.

And this group was compared to a matched group of 124 control patients. Devices used were the ClosureFast catheter and the NeverTouch kits by Angiodynamics. Technical details, standard IFU for the catheters. Tumescent anesthetic.

And fiber tips were kept about 2.5 centimeters from the SFJ or the SPJ. Vein occlusion was defined as the absence of blood flow by duplex scan along the length of the treated vein. You're all familiar with the devices, so the methods included follow-up, duplex ultrasound

at one week post-procedure, and then six months, and then also at a year. And then annually. Outcomes were analyzed with Kaplan-Meier plots and log rank tests. The results of the anticoagulation patients, 92,

control, 124, the mean follow-up was 470 days. And you can see that the demographics were rather similar between the two groups. There was some more coronary disease and hypertension in the anticoagulated groups, and that's really not much of a surprise

and some more male patients. Vessels treated, primarily GSV. A smaller amount of SSV in both the anticoagulated and the control groups. Indications for anticoagulation.

About half of the patients were in atrial fibrillation. Another 30% had a remote DVT in the contralateral limb. About 8% had mechanical valves, and 11% were for other reasons. And the results. The persistent vein ablation at 12 months,

the anticoagulation patients was 97%, and the controls was 99%. Persistent vein ablation by treated vessel, on anticoagulation. Didn't matter if it was GSV or SSV. Both had persistent ablation,

and by treatment modality, also did not matter whether it was laser or RF. Both equivalent. If there was antiplatelet therapy in addition to the anticoagulation, again if you added aspirin or Clopidogrel,

also no change. And that was at 12 months. We looked then at persistent vein ablation out at 18 months. It was still at 95% for the controls, and 91% for the anticoagulated patients. Still not statistically significantly different.

At 24 months, 89% in both groups. Although the numbers were smaller at 36 months, there was actually still no statistically significant difference. Interestingly, the anticoagulated group actually had a better persistent closure rate

than the control group. That may just be because the patients that come back at 36 months who didn't have anticoagulation may have been skewed. The ones we actually saw were ones that had a problem. It gets harder to have patients

come back at three months who haven't had an uneventful venous ablation procedure. Complication, no significant hematomas. Three patients had DVTs within 30 days. One anticoagulation patient had a popliteal DVT, and one control patient.

And one control patient had a calf vein DVT. Two EHITs. One GSV treated with laser on anticoagulation noted at six days, and one not on anticoagulation at seven days. Endovenous RF and EVLA can be safely performed

in patients undergoing long-term warfarin therapy. Our experience has demonstrated a similar short- and mid-term durability for RF ablation and laser, and platelet therapy does not appear to impact the closer rates,

which is consistent with the prior studies. And the frequency of vein recanalization following venous ablation procedures while on ACs is not worse compared to controls, and to the expected incidence as described in the literature.

This is the largest study to date with follow-up beyond 30 days with thermal ablation procedures on anticoagulation patients. We continue to look at these patients for even longer term durability. Thanks very much for your attention.

- [Narrator] So my assignment is, CMS policy update on non-thermal ablation techniques, and as most of you know, there is not one National CMS policy, so there are a variety of local cover determinations or policies that we're going to look at. I may bore you for a couple minutes

but I found a surprise at the end. So I went to the website, CMS website, and looked up varicose vein LCDs and these seven came up, interestingly Novitas, everybody's favorite, didn't come. So I looked at separately, we're going to look at all these as well.

And here is Novitas, Novitas and their previous LCD had no mention of non-thermal techniques, but in this proposed LCD, which has a lot of people up in arms, they say that the non-thermal techniques are experimental, investigational, and unproven,

and therefore will not be covered. This is next LCDs, this is two from Medicare contractor Noridian, they go on to talk about sclerotherapy and foam sclerotherapy, but they are not going to cover it. And somewhat bizarrely these codes in red here,

which are for Venaseal and Verithena, are listed as indications for RF or laser ablation, which kind of shows you they don't know what they're talking about. And there is no mention of MOCA or Claravein. Wisconsin Physicians Services and other MAC contractor,

and I looked at their LCD, there is no mention of non-thermal techniques. Next up is First Coast Service Options, with these jurisdictions over here on the right. And they get down to the C-classification, VCSS score, and talk about compressive therapy and conservative therapy.

They do mention Clarivein or MOCA. However, they state that it does not meet the Medicare necessity for coverage, and so they won't. And there's absolutely no mention of Verithena or Venaseal in their LCD. Palmetto GBA is another contractor,

with these jurisdictions on the right, and they actually discuss and approve Varithena, microfoam sclerotherapy. They discuss it here in their LCD, they have some restrictions that the physician needs to be competent and experienced with Varithena,

and ultrasound, there is no mention of Clarivein or Venaseal in their LCD. And these are also the folks that tell us how to do stab phlebectomy with 2 mm incisions and a crochet hook. So don't use a 3 mm incision and a hemostat,

it'd probably get denied. Next is CGS Administrators, and this busy slide, they go on to talk about sclerotherapy quite a bit, and all these in the main body, what they are not going to cover for sclerotherapy. They mention that foam sclerotherapy

is basically the same as liquid sclerotherapy, and therefore will not cover it, and again no mention of other treatments of non-thermal techniques. Which brings us to the last LCD, which is National Government Services,

and amazingly they state that the accepted treatments for eliminating reflux and the great saphenous anterior accessory, and small saphenous vein, include RFA, laser, polidocanol, Venaseal, and Verithena. And even more interestingly, they use their Rationale for Determination for MOCA.

The amount and consistency of the data, in addition to the two recent systematic reviews and the strong recommendation of the American Venous Forum, have convinced NGS that Medicare coverage is met. And for PEM, Varithena, the combination of RCTs, meta-analyses, systematic reviews,

the strong recommendation of the AVF, and endorsements from the SVS, ACP, SCAI, and SIR, have convinced them that coverage is appropriate. And the same for Venaseal, same thing. This is craziness. On one Medicare hand,

you have Novitas saying that, treatment is experimental and unproven, and they won't cover it. And on the other Medicare hand, you have this contractor that says, based on the recommendations of the experts,

that it's appropriate, and will be covered. And this is the reason why we need a National Coverage Determination. So, to find out what your policy is, you have to go to the website, you have to find out who your provider is,

or contractor, and see what the policy cause it differs depending upon where you are. Thank you for your attention.

- This talk is a brief one about what I think is an entity that we need to be aware of because we see some. They're not AVMs obviously, they're acquired, but it nevertheless represents an entity which we've seen. We know the transvenous treatment of AVMs is a major advance in safety and efficacy.

And we know that the venous approach is indeed very, very favorable. This talk relates to some lesions, which we are successful in treating as a venous approach, but ultimately proved to be,

as I will show you in considerable experience now, I think that venous thrombosis and venous inflammatory disease result in acquired arteriovenous connections, we call them AVMs, but they're not. This patient, for example,

presented with extensive lower extremity swelling after an episode of DVT. And you can see the shunting there in the left lower extremity. Here we go in a later arterial phase. This lesion we found,

as others, is best treated. By the way, that was his original episode of DVT with occlusion. Was treated with stenting and restoration of flow and the elimination of the AVM.

So, compression of the lesion in the venous wall, which is actually interesting because in the type perivenous predominant lesions, those are actually lesions in the vein wall. So these in a form, or in a way, assimilate the AVMs that occur in the venous wall.

Another man, a 53-year-old gentleman with leg swelling after an episode of DVT, we can see the extensive filling via these collaterals, and these are inflammatory collaterals in the vein wall. This is another man with a prior episode of DVT. See his extensive anterior pelvic collaterals,

and he was treated with stenting and success. A recent case, that Dr. Resnick and I had, I was called with a gentleman said he had an AVM. And we can see that the arteriogram sent to me showed arterial venous shunting.

Well, what was interesting here was that the history had not been obtained of a prior total knee replacement. And he gave a very clear an unequivocal history of a DVT of sudden onset. And you can see the collaterals there

in the adjacent femoral popliteal vein. And there it is filling. So treatment here was venous stenting of the lesion and of the underlying stenosis. We tried an episode of angioplasty,

but ultimately successful. Swelling went down and so what you have is really a post-inflammatory DVT. Our other vast experience, I would say, are the so-called uterine AVMs. These are referred to as AVMs,

but these are clearly understood to be acquired, related to placental persistence and the connections between artery and veins in the uterus, which occurs, a part of normal pregnancy. These are best treated either with arterial embolization, which has been less successful,

but in some cases, with venous injection in venous thrombosis with coils or alcohol. There's a subset I believe of some of our pelvic AVMs, that have histories of DVT. I believe they're silent. I think the consistency of this lesion

that I'm showing you here, that if we all know, can be treated by coil embolization indicates to me that at least some, especially in patients in advanced stage are related to DVT. This is a 56-year-old, who had a known history of prostate cancer

and post-operative DVT and a very classic looking AVM, which we then treated with coil embolization. And we're able to cure, but no question in my mind at least based on the history and on the age, that this was post-phlebitic.

And I think some of these, and I think Wayne would agree with me, some of these are probably silent internal iliac venous thromboses, which we know can occur, which we know can produce pulmonary embolism.

And that's the curative final arteriogram. Other lesions such as this, I believe are related, at least some, although we don't have an antecedent history to the development of DVT, and again of course,

treated by the venous approach with cure. And then finally, some of the more problematic ones, another 56-year-old man with a history of prior iliofemoral DVT. Suddenly was fine, had been treated with heparin and anticoagulation.

And suddenly appeared with rapid onset of right lower extremity swelling and pain. So you see here that on an arteriogram of the right femoral, as well as, the super selective catheterization of some of these collaterals.

We can see the lesion itself. I think it's a nice demonstration of lesion. Under any other circumstance, this is an AVM. It is an AVM, but we know it to be acquired because he had no such swelling. This was treated in the only way I knew how to treat

with stenting of the vein. We placed a stent. That's a ballon expanded in the angiogram on your right is after with ballon inflation. And you can see the effect that the stenting pressure, and therefore subsequently occlusion of the compression,

and occlusion of the collaterals, and connections in the vein wall. He subsequently became asymptomatic. We had unfortunately had to stent extensively in the common femoral vein but he had an excellent result.

So I think pelvic AVMs are very similar in location and appearance. We've had 13 cases. Some with a positive history of DVT. I believe many are acquired post-DVT, and the treatment is the same venous coiling and or stent.

Wayne has seen some that are remarkable. Remember Wayne we saw at your place? A guy was in massive heart failure and clearly a DVT-related. So these are some of the cases we've seen

and I think it's noteworthy to keep in mind, that we still don't know everything there is to know about AVMs. Some AVMs are acquired, for example, pelvic post-DVT, and of course all uterine AVMs. Thanks very much.

(audience applause) - [Narrator] That's a very interesting hypothesis with a pelvic AVMs which are consistently looking similar. - [Robert] In the same place right? - [Narrator] All of them are appearing at an older age. - [Robert] Yep.

Yep. - This would be a very, very good explanation for that. I've never thought about that. - Yeah I think-- - I think this is very interesting. - [Robert] And remember, exactly.

And I remember that internal iliac DVT is always a silent process, and that you have this consistency, that I find very striking. - [Woman] So what do you think the mechanism is? The hypervascularity looked like it was primarily

arterial fluffy vessels. - [Robert] No, no, no it's in the vein wall. If you look closely, the arteriovenous connections and the hypervascularity, it's in the vein wall. The lesion is the vein wall,

it's the inflammatory vein. You remember Tony, that the thing that I always think of is how we used to do plain old ballon angioplasty in the SFA. And afterwards we'd get this

florid venous filling sometimes, not every case. And that's the very tight anatomic connection between those two. That's what I think is happening. Wayne? - [Wayne] This amount is almost always been here.

We just haven't recognized it. What has been recognized is dural fistula-- - Yep. - That we know and that's been documented. Chuck Kerber, wrote the first paper in '73 about the microvascular circulation

in the dural surface of the dural fistula, and it's related to venous thrombosis and mastoiditis and trauma. And then as the healing process occurs, you have neovascular stimulation and fistulization in that dural reflection,

which is a vein wall. And the same process happens here with a DVT with the healing, the recanalization, inflammation, neovascular stimulation, and the development of fistulas. increased vascular flow into the lumen

of the thrombosed area. So it's a neovascular stimulation phenomenon, that results in the vein wall developing fistula very identical to what happens in the head with dural fistula had nothing described of in the periphery.

- [Narrator] Okay, very interesting hypothesis.

- Thank you, thanks for the opportunity to present. I have no disclosures. So, we all know that wounds are becoming more prevalent in our population, about 5% of the patient population has these non-healing wounds at a very significant economic cost, and it's a really high chance of lower extremity amputation

in these patients compared to other populations. The five-year survival following amputation from a foot ulcer is about 50%, which is actually a rate that's worse than most cancer, so this is a really significant problem. Now, even more significant than just a non-healing wound

is a wound that has both a venous and an arterial component to it. These patients are about at five to seven times the risk of getting an amputation, the end patients with either isolated venous disease or isolated PAD. It's important because the venous insufficiency component

brings about a lot more inflammation, and as we know, this is associated with either superficial or deep reflux, a history of DVT or incompetent perforators, but this adds an increasing complexity to these ulcers that refuse to heal.

So, it's estimated now about 15% of these ulcers are more of a mixed etiology, we define these as anyone who has some component of PAD, meaning an ABI of under point nine, and either superficial or deep reflux or a DVT on duplex ultrasound.

So we're going to talk for just a second about how do we treat these. Do we revascularize them first, do we do compression therapy? It has been shown in many, many studies, as with most things, that a multi-disciplinary approach

will improve the outcome of these patients, and the first step in any algorithm for these patients involves removing necrotic and infected tissue, dressings, if compression is feasible, based on the PAD level, you want to go ahead and do this secondary, if it's not, then you need to revascularize first,

and I'm going to show you our algorithm at Michigan that's based on summa the data. But remember that if the wounds fail to heal despite all of this, revascularization is a good option. So, based on the data, the algorithm that we typically use is if an ABI is less than point five

or a toe pressure is under 50, you want to revascularize first, I'll talk for a minute about the data of percutaneous versus open in these patients, but these are the patients you want to avoid compression in as a first line therapy.

If you have more moderate PAD, like in the point five to point eight range, you want to consider compression at the normal 40 millimeters of mercury, but you may need to modify it. It's actually been shown that that 40 millimeter of mercury

compression actually will increase flow to those wounds, so, contrary to what had previously been thought. So, revascularization, the data's pretty much equivocal right now, for these patients with these mixed ulcers, of whether you want to do endovascular or open. In diabetics, I think the data strongly favors

doing an open bypass if they have a good autogenous conduit and a good target, but you have to remember, in these patients, they have so much inflammation in the leg that wound healing from the surgical incisions is going to be significantly more difficult

than in a standard PAD patient, but the data has shown that about 60% of these ulcers heal at one year following revascularization. So, compression therapy, which is the mainstay either after revascularization in the severe PAD group or as a first line in the moderate group,

is really important 'cause it, again, increases blood flow to the wound. They've shown that that 40 millimeters of mercury compression is associated with a significant healing rate if you can do that, you additionally have to be careful, though,

about padding your bony areas, also, as we know, most patients don't actually keep their compression level at that 40, so there are sensors and other wearable technologies that are coming about that help patients with that, keeping in mind too, that the venous disease component

in these patients is really important, it's really important to treat the superficial venous reflux, EVLT is kind of the standard for that, treatment of perforators greater than five, all of that will help.

And I'm not going to go into any details of wound dressings, but there are plenty of new dressings that are available that can be used in conjunction with compression therapy. So, our final algorithm is we have a patient with these mixed arterial venous ulcers, we do woundcare debridement, determine the degree of PAD,

if it's severe, they go down the revascularization pathway, followed by compression, if it's moderate, then they get compression therapy first, possible treatment of venous disease, if it still doesn't heal at about 35 weeks, then you have to consider other things,

like biopsy for cancer, and then also consider revacularization. So, these ulcers are on a rise, they're a common problem, probably we need randomized control trials to figure out the optimal treatment strategies.

Thank you.

- So my charge is to talk about using band for steal. I have no relevant disclosures. We're all familiar with steal. The upper extremity particularly is able to accommodate for the short circuit that a access is with up to a 20 fold increase in flow. The problem is that the distal bed

is not necessarily as able to accommodate for that and that's where steal comes in. 10 to 20% of patients have some degree of steal if you ask them carefully. About 4% have it bad enough to require an intervention. Dialysis associated steal syndrome

is more prevalent in diabetics, connective tissue disease patients, patients with PVD, small vessels particularly, and females seem to be predisposed to this. The distal brachial artery as the inflow source seems to be the highest risk location. You see steal more commonly early with graft placement

and later with fistulas, and finally if you get it on one side you're very likely to get it on the other side. The symptoms that we are looking for are coldness, numbness, pain, at the hand, the digital level particularly, weakness in hand claudication, digital ulceration, and then finally gangrene in advanced cases.

So when you have this kind of a picture it's not too subtle. You know what's going on. However, it is difficult sometimes to differentiate steal from neuropathy and there is some interaction between the two.

We look for a relationship to blood pressure. If people get symptomatic when their blood pressure's low or when they're on the access circuit, that is more with steal. If it's following a dermatomal pattern that may be a median neuropathy

which we find to be pretty common in these patients. Diagnostic tests, digital pressures and pulse volume recordings are probably the best we have to assess this. Unfortunately the digital pressures are not, they're very sensitive but not very specific. There are a lot of patients with low digital pressures

that have no symptoms, and we think that a pressure less than 60 is probably consistent, or a digital brachial index of somewhere between .45 and .6. But again, specificity is poor. We think the digital pulse volume recordings is probably the most useful.

As you can see in this patient there's quite a difference in digital waveforms from one side to the other, and more importantly we like to see augmentation of that waveform with fistula compression not only diagnostically but also that is predictive of the benefit you'll get with treatment.

So what are our treatment options? Well, we have ligation. We have banding. We have the distal revascularization interval ligation, or DRIL, procedure. We have RUDI, revision using distal inflow,

and we have proximalization of arterial inflow as the approaches that have been used. Ligation is a, basically it restores baseline anatomy. It's a very simple procedure, but of course it abandons the access and many of these patients don't have a lot of good alternatives.

So it's not a great choice, but sometimes a necessary choice. This picture shows banding as we perform it, usually narrowing the anastomosis near the artery. It restricts flow so you preserve the fistula but with lower flows.

It's also simple and not very morbid to do. It's got a less predictable effect. This is a dynamic process, and so knowing exactly how tightly to band this and whether that's going to be enough is not always clear. This is not a good choice for low flow fistula,

'cause again, you are restricting flow. For the same reason, it's probably not a great choice for prosthetic fistulas which require more flow. So, the DRIL procedure most people are familiar with. It involves a proximalization of your inflow to five to 10 centimeters above the fistula

and then ligation of the artery just below and this has grown in popularity certainly over the last 10 or 15 years as the go to procedure. Because there is no flow restriction with this you don't sacrifice patency of the access for it. It does add additional distal flow to the extremity.

It's definitely a more morbid procedure. It involves generally harvesting the saphenous vein from patients that may not be the best risk surgical patients, but again, it's a good choice for low flow fistula. RUDI, revision using distal inflow, is basically

a flow restrictive procedure just like banding. You're simply, it's a little bit more complicated 'cause you're usually doing a vein graft from the radial artery to the fistula. But it's less complicated than DRIL. Similar limitations to banding.

Very limited clinical data. There's really just a few series of fewer than a dozen patients each to go by. Finally, a proximalization of arterial inflow, in this case rather than ligating the brachial artery you're ligating the fistula and going to a more proximal

vessel that often will accommodate higher flow. In our hands, we were often talking about going to the infraclavicular axillary artery. So, it's definitely more morbid than a banding would be. This is a better choice though for prosthetic grafts that, where you want to preserve flow.

Again, data on this is very limited as well. The (mumbles) a couple years ago they asked the audience what they like and clearly DRIL has become the most popular choice at 60%, but about 20% of people were still going to banding, and so my charge was to say when is banding

the right way to go. Again, it's effect is less predictable than DRIL. You definitely are going to slow the flows down, but remember with DRIL you are making the limb dependent on the patency of that graft which is always something of concern in somebody

who you have caused an ischemic hand in the first place, and again, the morbidity with the DRIL certainly more so than with the band. We looked at our results a few years back and we identified 31 patients who had steal. Most of these, they all had a physiologic test

confirming the diagnosis. All had some degree of pain or numbness. Only three of these patients had gangrene or ulcers. So, a relatively small cohort of limb, of advanced steal. Most of our patients were autogenous access,

so ciminos and brachycephalic fistula, but there was a little bit of everything mixed in there. The mean age was 66. 80% were diabetic. Patients had their access in for about four and a half months on average at the time of treatment,

although about almost 40% were treated within three weeks of access placement. This is how we do the banding. We basically expose the arterial anastomosis and apply wet clips trying to get a diameter that is less than the brachial artery.

It's got to be smaller than the brachial artery to do anything, and we monitor either pulse volume recordings of the digits or doppler flow at the palm or arch and basically apply these clips along the length and restricting more and more until we get

a satisfactory signal or waveform. Once we've accomplished that, we then are satisfied with the degree of narrowing, we then put some mattress sutures in because these clips will fall off, and fix it in place.

And basically this is the result you get. You go from a fistula that has no flow restriction to one that has restriction as seen there. What were our results? Well, at follow up that was about almost 16 months we found 29 of the 31 patients had improvement,

immediate improvement. The two failures, one was ligated about 12 days later and another one underwent a DRIL a few months later. We had four occlusions in these patients over one to 18 months. Two of these were salvaged with other procedures.

We only had two late recurrences of steal in these patients and one of these was, recurred when he was sent to a radiologist and underwent a balloon angioplasty of the banding. And we had no other morbidity. So this is really a very simple procedure.

So, this is how it compares with DRIL. Most of the pooled data shows that DRIL is effective in 90 plus percent of the patients. Patency also in the 80 to 90% range. The DRIL is better for late, or more often used in late patients,

and banding used more in earlier patients. There's a bigger blood pressure change with DRIL than with banding. So you definitely get more bang for the buck with that. Just quickly going through the literature again. Ellen Dillava's group has published on this.

DRIL definitely is more accepted. These patients have very high mortality. At two years 50% are going to be dead. So you have to keep in mind that when you're deciding what to do. So, I choose banding when there's no gangrene,

when there's moderate not severe pain, and in patients with high morbidity. As promised here's an algorithm that's a little complicated looking, but that's what we go by. Again, thanks very much.

- I want to thank Dr. Veith for the invitation to present this. There are no disclosures. So looking at cost effectiveness, especially the comparison of two interventions based on cost and the health gains, which is usually reported

through disability adjusted life years or even qualities. It's not to be really confused with cost benefit analysis where both paramaters are used, looked at based on cost. However, this does have different implications from different stakeholders.

And we look, at this point, between the medical center or the medical institution and as well as the payers. Most medical centers tend to look at how much this is costing them

and what is being reimbursed. What's the subsequent care interventions and are there any additional payments for some of these new, novel technologies. What does the payers really want to know, what are they getting for the money,

their expenditures and from here, we'll be looking mainly at Medicare. So, background, we've all seen this, but basically, you know, balloon angioplasty and stents have been out for a while and the outcomes aren't bad but they're not great.

They do have continued high reintervention rates and patency problems. Therefore, drug technology has sort of emerged as a possible alternative with better patency rates. And when we look at this, just some, some backgrounds, when you look at any sort of angioplasty,

from the physician's side, we bill under a certain CPT code and it falls under a family of codes for reimbursement in the medical center called an APC. Within those, you can further break it down to the cost of the product.

In this situation, total products cost around 1400 dollars and the balloons are estimated to be 406 dollars in cost. However, in drug-coated balloons, there was an additional payment, which average, because they're such more expensive devices than the allotments and this had an additional payment.

However, this expired in January of this year. When you look at Medicare reimbursement guidelines, you'll see that on an outpatient hospital setting, there's a reimbursement for the medical center as well as for the physican which is, oops sorry, down eight percent from last year.

And they also publish a geometric mean cost, which is quite higher than we expected. And then the office based practice is also the reimbursement pattern and this is slated to go down also by a few percentage points.

When you look at, I'm sorry, when you look at stents, however, it's a different family of CPT codes and APC family also. Here you'll see the supply cost is much higher in the, I'm sorry, the stent in this category is actually 3600 dollars.

The average cost for drug-eluting stents, around 1500 dollars and the only pass through that existed was on the inpatient side of it. Again, looking at Medicare guidelines, the reimbursement will be going down 8 percent

for the outpatient setting and the geometric mean cost is 11,700. So, what we want to look at really is what is the financial impact looking at primary patency, target lesion revascularization based on meta analysis. And the reinterventions are where the real cost

is going to come into effect. We also want to look at, when it doesn't work and we do bailout stenting, what is the cost going to happen there, which is not often looked at in most of these studies. So looking at a hypothetical situation,

you've got 100 patients, any office based practice, the payee will pay about 5145. There's a pass through payment which averages 1700 dollars per stent. Now, if you look at bailout stenting, 18.5 percent at one year,

this is the additional cost that would be associated with that from a payer standpoint. Targeted risk for revascularization was 12 percent of additional costs. So the total one year cost, we estimated, was almost a million dollars

and the cost per primary patency limb at one year was 13 four. In a similar fashion, for drug-eluting stents, you'll see that there's no pass through payment, but although there is a much higher payer expenditure. The reintervention rate was about 8.4 percent

at one year for the additional cost. And you'll see here, at the one year mark, the cost per patent limb is about 12,600 dollars. So how 'about the medical center, looking at Medicare claims data, you'll see the average cost for them is 745,000,

the medical center. Additional costs listed at another 1500. Bailout renting, as previously, with relate to a total cost at one year of 1.2 million or at 16,900 dollars per limb. Looking at the drug-eluting stents,

we didn't add any additional costs because the drug-eluting stents are cheaper than the current system that is in there but the reinterventions still exist for a cost per patent limb at one year of 14 six. So in essence, a few other studies have looked

at some model, both a European model and in the U.S. where the number of reinterventions at two to five years will actually offset the additional cost of drug-eluting stents and make it a financially advantageous process.

And in conclusion, drug-eluting stents do have a better primary patency and a decreased TLR than drug-coated balloons or even other, but they are more expensive than conventional treatment such as balloon angioplasty and bare-metal stents.

There is a decreased reintervention rate and the bailout stenting, which is not normally accounted for in a financial standpoint does have a dramatic impact and the loss of the pass through makes me make some of the drug-coated balloons

a little more prohibitive in process. Thank you.

- Talk to you a little bit about again a major paradigm shift in AVMs which is the retrograde vein approach. I mean I think the biggest benefit and the biggest change that we've seen has been in the Yakes classification the acknowledgment

and understanding that the safety, efficacy and cure rate for AVMs is essentially 100% in certain types of lesions where the transvenous approach is not only safer, but easier and far more effective. So, it's the Yakes classification

and we're talking about a variety of lesions including Yakes one, coils and plugs. Two A the classic nidus. Three B single outflow vein. And we're talking now about these type of lesions. Three A aneurysmal vein single outflow.

Three B multiple outflows and diffuse. This is what I personally refer to as venous predominant lesions. And it's these lesions which I think have yielded the most gratifying and most dramatic results. Close to 100% cure if done properly

and that's the Yakes classification and that's really what it's given us to a great degree. So, Yakes one has been talked about, not a problem put a plus in it it's just an artery to vein.

We all know how to do that. That's pulmonary AVM or other things. Yakes two B however, is a nidus is still present but there is a single outflow aneurysmal vein. And there are two endovascular approaches. Direct puncture, transarterial,

but transvenous retrograde or direct puncture of the vein aneurism with the coil, right. You got to get to the vein, and the way to get to the vein is either by directly puncturing which is increasingly used, but occasionally transvenous. So, here's an example I showed a similar one before,

as I said I think some of these are post phlebitic but they represent the archetype of this type of lesion a two B where coil embolization results in cure, durable usually one step sometimes a little more. In the old days we used to do multiple

arterial injections, we now know that that's not necessary. This is this case I showed earlier. I think the thing I want to show here is the nature of the arteriovenous connection. Notice the nidus there just on this side of the

vein wall with a single venous outflow, and this can of course be cured by puncture, there's the needle coming in. And interestingly these needles can be placed in any way. Wayne and I have talked about this.

I've gone through the bladder under ultrasound guidance, I've gone from behind and whatever access you can get that's safe, as long as you can get a needle into it an 18 gauge needle, blow coils in you get a little tired, and you're there a long time putting in

coils and guide wires and so on. But the cures are miraculous, nothing short of miraculous. And many of these patients are patients who have been treated inappropriately in the past and have had very poor outcomes,

and they can be cured. And that a three year follow-up. The transcatheter retrograde vein is occasionally available. Here's an example of an acquired but still an AVM an acquired AVM

of the uterus where you see the venous filling on the left, lots of arteries. This cannot be treated with the arterial approach folks. So, this one happened to be available

and I was having fun with it as well, which is through the contralateral vein in and I was able to catheterize that coil embolization, cured so. Three A is a slightly different variant but it's important it is different.

Multiple in-flow arteries into an aneurysmal vein wall. And the important identification Wayne has given us is that the vein wall itself is the nidus and there's a single out-flow vein. So, once again, attacking the vein wall by destroying the vein, packing

and thrombosing that nidus. I think it's a combination of compression and thrombosis can often be curative. A few examples of that this was shown earlier, this is from Dr. Yake's experience but it's a beautiful example

and we try to give you the best examples of a singular type of lesion so you understand the anatomy. That's the sequential and now you see single out-flow vein. How do you treat this?

Coil embolization, direct puncture and ultimately a cure. And that's the arteriogram. Cured. And I think it's a several year follow-up two or three year follow-up on this one.

So a simple lesion, but illustrative of what we're trying to do here. A foot AVM with a single out-flow vein, this is cured by a combination of direct puncture right at the vein. And you know I would say that the beauty of

venous approach is actually something which it isn't widely acknowledged, which is the safety element. Let's say you're wrong, let's say you're treating an AVM and you think okay I'm going to attack

from the vein side, well, if you're not successful from the vein side, you've lost nothing. The risk in all of these folks is, if you're in the artery and you don't understand that the artery is feeding significant tissue,

these are where all the catastrophic, disastrous complications you've heard so much about have occurred. It's because the individuals do not understand that they're in a nutrient artery. So, when in doubt direct puncture

and stay on the venous side. You can't hurt yourself with ethanol and that's why ethanol is as safe as it is when it's used properly. So, three B finally is multiple in-flow arteries/arterioles shunting into an aneurysmal vein

this is multiple out-flow veins. So direct puncture, coils into multiple veins multiple sessions. So, here's an example of that. This is with alcohol this is a gentleman I saw with a bad ulcer,

and this looks impossible correct? But look at the left hand arteriogram, you can see the filling of veins. Look at the right hand in a slight oblique. The answer here is to puncture that vein. Where do we have our coil.

The answer is to puncture here, and this is thin tissue, but we're injecting there. See we're right at the vein, right here and this is a combination arteriogram. Artery first, injection into the vein.

Now we're at the (mumbles), alcohol is repeatedly placed into this, and you can see that we're actually filling the nidus here. See here. There's sclerosis beginning destruction of the vein

with allowing the alcohol to go into the nidus and we see progressive healing and ultimately resolution of the ulcer. So, a very complex lesion which seemingly looks impossible is cured by alcohol in an out-flow vein.

So the Yakes classification of AVMs is the only one in which architecture inform treatment and produces consistent cures. And venous predominant lesions, as I've shown you here, are now curable in a high percentage of cases

when the underlying anatomy is understood and the proper techniques are chosen. Thanks very much.

- Thank you very much and thank you Dr. Veith for the kind invite. Here's my disclosures, clearly relevant to this talk. So we know that after EVAR, it's around the 20% aortic complication rate after five years in treating type one and three Endoleaks prevents subsequent

secondary aortic rupture. Surveillance after EVAR is therefore mandatory. But it's possible that device-specific outcomes and surveillance protocols may improve the durability of EVAR over time. You're all familiar with this graph for 15 year results

in terms of re-intervention from the EVAR-1 trials. Whether you look at all cause and all re-interventions or life threatening re-interventions, at any time point, EVAR fares worse than open repair. But we know that the risk of re-intervention is different

in different patients. And if you combine pre-operative risk factors in terms of demographics and morphology, things are happening during the operations such as the use of adjuncts,

or having to treat intro-operative endoleak, and what happens to the aortic sac post-operatively, you can come up with a risk-prediction tool for how patients fare in the longer term. So the LEAR model was developed on the Engage Registry and validated on some post-market registries,

PAS, IDE, and the trials in France. And this gives a predictive risk model. Essentially, this combines patients into a low risk group that would have standard surveillance, and a higher risk group, that would have a surveillance plus

or enhanced surveillanced model. And you get individual patient-specific risk profiles. This is a patient with around a seven centimeter aneurysm at the time of repair that shows sac shrinkage over the first year and a half, post-operatively. And you can see that there's really a very low risk

of re-intervention out to five years. These little arrow bars up here. For a patient that has good pre-operative morphology and whose aneurysm shrinks out to a year, they're going to have a very low risk of re-intervention. This patient, conversely, had a smaller aneurysm,

but it grew from the time of the operation, and out to two and a half years, it's about a centimeter increase in the sac. And they're going to have a much higher risk of re-intervention and probably don't need the same level of surveillance as the first patient.

and probably need a much higher rate of surveillance. So not only can we have individualized predictors of risk for patients, but this is the regulatory aspect to it as well.

Multiple scenario testing can be undertaken. And these are improved not only with the pre-operative data, but as you've seen with one-year data, and this can tie in with IFU development and also for advising policy such as NICE, which you'll have heard a lot about during the conference.

So this is just one example. If you take a patient with a sixty-five millimeter aneurysm, eighteen millimeter iliac, and the suprarenal angle at sixty degrees. If you breach two or more of these factors in red, we have the pre-operative prediction.

Around 20% of cases will be in the high risk group. The high risk patients have about a 50-55% freedom from device for related problems at five years. And the low risk group, so if you don't breach those groups, 75% chance of freedom from intervention.

In the green, if you then add in a stent at one year, you can see that still around 20% of patients remain in the high risk group. But in the low risk group, you now have 85% of patients won't need a re-intervention at five years,

and less of a movement in the high risk group. So this can clearly inform IFU. And here you see the Kaplan-Meier curves, those same groups based pre-operatively, and at one year. In conclusion, LEAR can provide

a device specific estimation of EVAR outcome out to five years. It can be based on pre-operative variables alone by one year. Duplex surveillance helps predict risk. It's clearly of regulatory interest in the outcomes of EVAR.

And an E-portal is being developed for dissemination. Thank you very much.

- Thank you Mr. Chairman. Ladies and gentleman, first of all, I would like to thank Dr. Veith for the honor of the podium. Fenestrated and branched stent graft are becoming a widespread use in the treatment of thoracoabdominal

and pararenal aortic aneurysms. Nevertheless, the risk of reinterventions during the follow-up of these procedures is not negligible. The Mayo Clinic group has recently proposed this classification for endoleaks

after FEVAR and BEVAR, that takes into account all the potential sources of aneurysm sac reperfusion after stent graft implant. If we look at the published data, the reported reintervention rate ranges between three and 25% of cases.

So this is still an open issue. We started our experience with fenestrated and branched stent grafts in January 2016, with 29 patients treated so far, for thoracoabdominal and pararenal/juxtarenal aortic aneurysms. We report an elective mortality rate of 7.7%.

That is significantly higher in urgent settings. We had two cases of transient paraparesis and both of them recovered, and two cases of complete paraplegia after urgent procedures, and both of them died. This is the surveillance protocol we applied

to the 25 patients that survived the first operation. As you can see here, we used to do a CT scan prior to discharge, and then again at three and 12 months after the intervention, and yearly thereafter, and according to our experience

there is no room for ultrasound examination in the follow-up of these procedures. We report five reinterventions according for 20% of cases. All of them were due to endoleaks and were fixed with bridging stent relining,

or embolization in case of type II, with no complications, no mortality. I'm going to show you a couple of cases from our series. A 66 years old man, a very complex surgical history. In 2005 he underwent open repair of descending thoracic aneurysm.

In 2009, a surgical debranching of visceral vessels followed by TEVAR for a type III thoracoabdominal aortic aneurysms. In 2016, the implant of a tube fenestrated stent-graft to fix a distal type I endoleak. And two years later the patient was readmitted

for a type II endoleak with aneurysm growth of more than one centimeter. This is the preoperative CT scan, and you see now the type II endoleak that comes from a left gastric artery that independently arises from the aneurysm sac.

This is the endoleak route that starts from a branch of the hepatic artery with retrograde flow into the left gastric artery, and then into the aneurysm sac. We approached this case from below through the fenestration for the SMA and the celiac trunk,

and here on the left side you see the superselective catheterization of the branch of the hepatic artery, and on the right side the microcatheter that has reached the nidus of the endoleak. We then embolized with onyx the endoleak

and the feeding vessel, and this is the nice final result in two different angiographic projections. Another case, a 76 years old man. In 2008, open repair for a AAA and right common iliac aneurysm.

Eight years later, the implant of a T-branch stent graft for a recurrent type IV thoracoabdominal aneurysm. And one year later, the patient was admitted again for a type IIIc endoleak, plus aneurysm of the left common iliac artery. This is the CT scan of this patient.

You will see here the endoleak at the level of the left renal branch here, and the aneurysm of the left common iliac just below the stent graft. We first treated the iliac aneurysm implanting an iliac branched device on the left side,

so preserving the left hypogastric artery. And in the same operation, from a bowl, we catheterized the left renal branch and fixed the endoleak that you see on the left side, with a total stent relining, with a nice final result on the right side.

And this is the CT scan follow-up one year after the reintervention. No endoleak at the level of the left renal branch, and nice exclusion of the left common iliac aneurysm. In conclusion, ladies and gentlemen, the risk of type I endoleak after FEVAR and BEVAR

is very low when the repair is planning with an adequate proximal sealing zone as we heard before from Professor Verhoeven. Much of reinterventions are due to type II and III endoleaks that can be treated by embolization or stent reinforcement. Last, but not least, the strict follow-up program

with CT scan is of paramount importance after these procedures. I thank you very much for your attention.

- Thank you (mumbles) and thank you Dr. Veith for the kind invitation to participate in this amazing meeting. This is work from Hamburg mainly and we all know that TEVAR is the first endovascular treatment of choice but a third of our patients will fail to remodel and that's due to the consistent and persistent

flow in the false lumen over the re-entrance in the thoracoabdominal aorta. Therefore it makes sense to try to divide the compartments of the aorta and try to occlude flow in the false lumen and this can be tried by several means as coils, plug and glue

but also iliac occluders but they all have the disadvantage that they don't get over 24 mm which is usually not enough to occlude the false lumen. Therefore my colleague, Tilo Kolbel came up with this first idea with using

a pre-bulged stent graft at the midportion which after ballooning disrupts the dissection membrane and opposes the outer wall and therefore occludes backflow into the aneurysm sac in the thoracic segment, but the most convenient

and easy to use tool is the candy-plug which is a double tapered endograft with a midsegment that is 18 mm and once implanted in the false lumen at the level of the supraceliac aorta it occludes the backflow in the false lumen in the thoracic aorta

and we have seen very good remodeling with this approach. You see here a patient who completely regressed over three years and it also answers the question how it behaves with respect to true and false lumen. The true lumen always wins and because once

the false lumen thrombosis and the true lumen also has the arterial pressure it does prevail. These are the results from Hamburg with an experience of 33 patients and also the international experience with the CMD device that has been implanted in more than 20 cases worldwide

and we can see that the interprocedural technical success is extremely high, 100% with no irrelevant complications and also a complete false lumen that is very high, up to 95%. This is the evolvement of the candy-plug

over the years. It started as a surgeon modified graft just making a tie around one of the stents evolving to a CMD and then the last generation candy-plug II that came up 2017 and the difference, or the new aspect

of the candy-plug II is that it has a sleeve inside and therefore you can retrieve the dilator without having to put another central occluder or a plug in the central portion. Therefore when the dilator is outside of the sleeve the backflow occludes the sleeve

and you don't have to do anything else, but you have to be careful not to dislodge the whole stent graft while retrieving the dilator. This is a case of a patient with post (mumbles) dissection.

This is the technique of how we do it, access to the false lumen and deployment of the stent graft in the false lumen next to the true lumen stent graft being conscious of the fact that you don't go below the edge of the true lumen endograft

to avoid (mumbles) and the final angiography showing no backflow in the aneurysm. This is how we measure and it's quite simple. You just need about a centimeter in the supraceliac aorta where it's not massively dilated and then you just do an over-sizing

in the false lumen according to the Croissant technique as Ste-phan He-lo-sa has described by 10 to 30% and what is very important is that in these cases you don't burn any bridges. You can still have a good treatment

of the thoracic component and come back and do the fenestrated branch repair for the thoracoabdominal aorta if you have to. Thank you very much for your attention. (applause)

- These are my disclosures. So central venous access is frequently employed throughout the world for a variety of purposes. These catheters range anywhere between seven and 11 French sheaths. And it's recognized, even in the best case scenario, that there are iatrogenic arterial injuries

that can occur, ranging between three to 5%. And even a smaller proportion of patients will present after complications from access with either a pseudoaneurysm, fistula formation, dissection, or distal embolization. In thinking about these, as you see these as consultations

on your service, our thoughts are to think about it in four primary things. Number one is the anatomic location, and I think imaging is very helpful. This is a vas cath in the carotid artery. The second is th

how long the device has been dwelling in the carotid or the subclavian circulation. Assessment for thrombus around the catheter, and then obviously the size of the hole and the size of the catheter.

Several years ago we undertook a retrospective review and looked at this, and we looked at all carotid, subclavian, and innominate iatrogenic injuries, and we excluded all the injuries that were treated, that were manifest early and treated with just manual compression.

It's a small cohort of patients, we had 12 cases. Eight were treated with a variety of endovascular techniques and four were treated with open surgery. So, to illustrate our approach, I thought what I would do is just show you four cases on how we treated some of these types of problems.

The first one is a 75 year-old gentleman who's three days status post a coronary bypass graft with a LIMA graft to his LAD. He had a cordis catheter in his chest on the left side, which was discovered to be in the left subclavian artery as opposed to the vein.

So this nine French sheath, this is the imaging showing where the entry site is, just underneath the clavicle. You can see the vertebral and the IMA are both patent. And this is an angiogram from a catheter with which was placed in the femoral artery at the time that we were going to take care of this

with a four French catheter. For this case, we had duel access, so we had access from the groin with a sheath and a wire in place in case we needed to treat this from below. Then from above, we rewired the cordis catheter,

placed a suture-mediated closure device, sutured it down, left the wire in place, and shot this angiogram, which you can see very clearly has now taken care of the bleeding site. There's some pinching here after the wire was removed,

this abated without any difficulty. Second case is a 26 year-old woman with a diagnosis of vascular EDS. She presented to the operating room for a small bowel obstruction. Anesthesia has tried to attempt to put a central venous

catheter access in there. There unfortunately was an injury to the right subclavian vein. After she recovered from her operation, on cross sectional imaging you can see that she has this large pseudoaneurysm

coming from the subclavian artery on this axial cut and also on the sagittal view. Because she's a vascular EDS patient, we did this open brachial approach. We placed a stent graft across the area of injury to exclude the aneurism.

And you can see that there's still some filling in this region here. And it appeared to be coming from the internal mammary artery. We gave her a few days, it still was patent. Cross-sectional imaging confirmed this,

and so this was eventually treated with thoracoscopic clipping and resolved flow into the aneurism. The next case is a little bit more complicated. This is an 80 year-old woman with polycythemia vera who had a plasmapheresis catheter,

nine French sheath placed on the left subclavian artery which was diagnosed five days post procedure when she presented with a posterior circulation stroke. As you can see on the imaging, her vertebral's open, her mammary's open, she has this catheter in the significant clot

in this region. To manage this, again, we did duel access. So right femoral approach, left brachial approach. We placed the filter element in the vertebral artery. Balloon occlusion of the subclavian, and then a stent graft coverage of the area

and took the plasmapheresis catheter out and then suction embolectomy. And then the last case is a 47 year-old woman who had an attempted right subclavian vein access and it was known that she had a pulsatile mass in the supraclavicular fossa.

Was noted to have a 3cm subclavian artery pseudoaneurysm. Very broad base, short neck, and we elected to treat this with open surgical technique. So I think as you see these consults, the things to factor in to your management decision are: number one, the location.

Number two, the complication of whether it's thrombus, pseudoaneurysm, or fistula. It's very important to identify whether there is pericatheter thrombus. There's a variety of techniques available for treatment, ranging from manual compression,

endovascular techniques, and open repair. I think the primary point here is the prevention with ultrasound guidance is very important when placing these catheters. Thank you. (clapping)

- [Bill] Thank you Vikay. I think this is an interesting topic for many reasons but one of the key ones is that if you look at our health care policies by insurers, this tends to define our practice. So I looked at BlueCross BlueShield's policy and they say that treatment of the GSV or SSV

is medically necessary when there is demonstrated saphenous reflux and I looked for more and there was no more. That's all they said so they must think that reflux a time correlates with venous severity. So is this true?

I think, personally, that there are other things that are involved and that volume is really the key. Time, velocity and the diameter of the vein are likely all part of the process and we all know that obstruction

is also critically important as well and probably the worse patients are those that have both reflux and obstruction. Probably reflux is worse in the deep system but we know that large GSV and SSV patients can develop CEAP four to six symptoms

and do very well with saphenous ablations. And I think this is a nice analogy. I love this guy, it looks like he came off of his lawn chair to help the firefighters out but he's probably not going to do so much with his little garden hose now, is he?

So I think size and velocity do matter. What does the literature tell us? Chris Lattimer and his group have done an elegant set of studies looking at how various parameters correlate to air plethysmography and venous filling times. They did show that there is a correlation

between venous filling time and reflux time. However, other things were probably more correlated such as GSV diameter and reflux velocity. And in this nice study of 300 patients they found that there was a relatively weak correlation between reflux time and clinical severity

and their conclusion was that it was a good parameter to identify reflux but not for quantifying the severity. So here's how we use this clinically in my practice. So you see many patients such as this that have mixed venous disease.

53-year-old female, severe edema. You do her studies and she's got reflux in the deep and the superficial system. So how to we decide if saphenous ablation is going to help this patient or not and correct these symptoms, prevent further ulcerations?

So all reflux is not created equal. The top is a popliteal tracing where the maximum reflux velocity is about five centimeters per second versus the bottom one that's about thirty to forty centimeters per second

so these probably aren't going to behave similarly in when we look at them. So we studied this in 75 patients and reported this back in 2008. We look at the maximum reflux velocity in the popliteal vein to tell if these patients

would improve after we ablated their saphenous or not. We found that this was a significant predictor of both improvement in venous filling index and the venous clinical severity score so we think velocity really does matter. And this is where we're seeing this clinically.

This is a patient that was referred to me for a second opinion concerning whether she would need ablation of her great saphenous vein. And this is the reflux tracing and you can see the scale here is turned up so that this is a measurement of reflux at about two centimeters per second.

This was used to document abnormal reflux and to justify ablation of the saphenous. So I checked one of our tracings. This is what it looks like.

- Thank you very much for inviting me here again and I'll be talking about thermal ablation RCTs. My coauthor, Michel Perrin from Lyon, in France, the gourmet capital in the world has collected RCTs on operative treatment of CVD since 1990. Today he has 186 collected RCTs

of the which 84 involve thermal ablation. You can find all this data for free in Phlebolymphology.org. Do we need further RCTs? Well systematic reviews and meta-analyses increasingly important in evidence-based medicine. And this development is well-described

by Gurevitch in Nature this year and criticized by Ioannidis two years earlier. Common sense is a good principle when you try to understand meta-analyses. Do most studies point in the same direction?

Is the effect significant? Are the patient-related outcome measures relevant and what happens if you exclude one study? Since 2008, 10 years back, these are the available meta-analyses and the last came from Ireland earlier this year.

It was published in the JVS, endovenous and in fact this is in March. And they found nine RCTs comparing conventional surgery and endovenous therapy with five years or more follow-up that were selected. Primary outcome was recurrence rate.

There is some sole recurrence rate was that there is no significant difference in laser versus surgery, same for radioactive frequency versus surgery and radioactive frequency versus laser. They found an inferiority

of ultrasound guided foam sclerotherapy versus laser and surgery. Their conclusions were that the quality of evidence is poor therefore more trials that are well-powered to examine long-term outcomes are warranted. The new kids on the block,

steam, MOCA, and Venaseal, are not included in the meta-analyses due to lack of more than five years follow-up in their paper. Obsolete RCTs. Endovenous laser in the presented long-term RCTs

were performed by 810-980 nanometer wavelength using a bare fiber. There is a paucity of RCTs comparing open surgery with novel endovenous laser and new RF techniques. Recent criticism against endovenous ablation, is the pendulum swinging towards high ligation

and stripping again? Olle Nelzen from Sweden in an editorial in British Journal of Surgery reconsidering the endovenous revolution, wrote that neovascularization is a dominant finding following high ligation and stripping

but proximal venous stumps and incompetent anterior accessory saphenous veins are the main factor after endovenous ablation. So long-term follow-up suggests that the recurrence rate after endovenous ablation seem to increase over time. A substantial number of patients who have undergone

endovenous ablation will eventually develop symptomatic recurrence requiring repeat therapy. And such scenario would change the equation regarding patient benefit and costs making endovenous ablation less competitive and challenging current guidelines.

So summary of needs for further RCTs. Quality of present RCTs poor in several meta-analyses, no thermal endovenous technique is superior to open surgery, RCTs rapidly obsolete due to change in technology, and more trials that are well-powered to examine long-term outcomes are warranted.

So final point, apparently we need more RCTs to satisfy the quality requirements for clinically important systematic reviews and meta-analyses. And what about the clinical guidelines? Thank you very much.

- (speaks French) liver surgeon I perform hepatobiliary surgery and liver transplantation. Maybe I don't belong here, I so probably more rested than anybody in the room here. But today I will present about liver surgery and hepatectomy. I work at The Royal Free where I have the honor and pleasure to have seen Krassi. We are in the

little island in the North Sea. There is many things going wrong there including Brexit but, the guys uh, we have a major advantage. The NHS favors centralization. Centralization look there: London is bigger than New York Uh, eight million, 50 million greater London

and we drain about six millions of people with our HPB center. In the center we perform about 2,000 operations, of major surgery. In five years, half of them are liver surgery. And most of them have uh, benign, malignant tumor. A very small percentage have benign tumor.

I count here for complications uh, and mortality look there, 3.1% of only the malignant because the benign are young people and we perform a different strategy, they have no mortality. Today Hepatic Hemangioma, look there it is uh, 1898 is a key year. Not only the first description

of the lady that died after bleeding out in an autopsy but also, Hermann Pfannenstiel uh, Professor Pfannenstiel. I will introduce you to him. He described the first operation. Now, we're talking of congenital malformations, they uh, lesions occur in the liver and they may grow,

but only 20% they grow. They have a chaotic network of vessels and they have fibrotic, fibrotic development within it. I introduce you Hermann Pfannenstiel, he was a gynecologist, famous, famous, important incision that we still use today.

Remember him, we'll talk to him later. Microscopically, the microscopic is our well-circumscribed lesion, they're compressible. Important you see down there that they compress the liver that is normal close to it. This has an implication because if you operate,

you fill find a blood duct or a vessel and it will bleed or leak by. Microscopically, they are ectatic blood vessels and they are fed by arteries. This is also an important point, for therapy. Separated by fibrous septa, this is also important

because they become harder and they become bigger. And they have distorted blood vessels. They're more frequent uh, benign tumor. Prevalence up to 7%, they have non-neoplastic this must be clear, they are non-cancer. The proliferation of endothelial cells, women

have more and particularly pregnant women, more pregnancy or contraceptive. We divide them in cavernous and capillary and we'll have a word on that. Symptomatic being half of the cases, multiple in 10%, they rarely bleed and they rarely rupture.

Capillary Hemangiomas cells small, I show you an MRI here. The differential with HCC liver cancer is most important. They both are theorized but they continue to appear on late face. They are asymptomatic please, do not touch them, they do no harm.

And so we will not speak of them. We speak only of the cavernous hemangioma. And here, the cavernous hemangioma bleeds Oh my God, no, it's not true. There are 83 reports of bleeding since the report of Hermann Pfannenstiel. Uh, 97 cases, adenomas bleed more frequently.

Frequently, in the past they were confused. Hemangioma and adenoma, adenoma does bleed. There are only true cases, 46 in the literature. Size is not important and they are very rare in elderly people.

This is what we see when they are giant cavernous hemangiomas, they're serious, they are rather easy to diagnose. Diagnostic criteria, uh, look up typical for uh, cavernous hemangioma. How do you point here? Yep, you stop. If you then see that you have

an atypical hemangioma, you jump over to an MRI. MRI is too nowadays, diagnostic and uh, the important thing is you stop. Once you have the diagnosis with MRI, you stop, do nothing yet, do not follow, bye-bye. Treatment modalities surgery: Selective TAE, Radiotherapy, Medication: two classes,

Propranolol, to decrease the hyper circulation. Bevacizumab as a class of drugs of inhibitors of inferior growths and endories, eventually are cold. This is seminal paper, about 35 years ago "Do not treat asymptomatic patients." This is a key: do not bother with hemangioma.

If you do have the algorithm, you look at complaints that can present incidentally when they have complained, not complained, no treatment of abdominal pain. Unrelated to no treatment, we have to eventually make sure that the pain is not related to the cavernous hemangioma. If there is other futures

like compression giant, you can do surgery. If you have a doubt in diagnosis, today rare with MRI, then you can perform a biopsy. The surgical indication then remain progress, severe, disabling symptoms. Diagnostic uncertainty nowadays not the case, with MRI.

Consumptive coagulopathy or Kasabach-Merritt syndrome is a serious, we will see when you perform human transplants. Spontaneous rupture with bleeding as an emergency. Rapid growth in 25%. This is a paper that shows that the size of the cavernous hemangioma is here,

and you can see that operation has been performed for larger size, however, look that even in non-symptomatic or partially asymptomatic patients, you can reach sizes up to 15 centimeters. And this a review of the literature from a Chinese group where they revised a thousand to a hundred cases,

no mortality in the series and enucleation versus the anatomic resection is better. Less complications, less blood less, less time of surgery, and less hospital stay. So please, in this case of surgery, we do enucleation. I was asked by my society the HPBA to speak

about transplantation for liver tumor. You can that an indication is unresectable disease, severe symptoms and mass occupying effects. Pre-cancerous behavior is not for hemangioma only for adenoma differential diagnosis with HCC. And you have to be attentive that you avoid

liver insufficiency during your resection. So, in conclusion, for benign lesions, hemangioma technically is the only indication. And now the systematic review that shows around several emothing United States UNOS and the ELTR Several, several benign tumors but if you break down

for type of tumors you see that most of them are Polycystic disease or partly cavernous hemangioma are very low. 77 in Europe, out of 97,000 operation of transplantation. So, let's get an old paper. The pioneer of transplantation again, extremely low,

one out of 3,200. An extremely low percentage. It's my personal experience I was working at Essen, Germany. Almost a thousand transplants we performed. Unfortunately most of them I did and we never transplanted one hemangioma, my experience for transplantation is zero because it should not be done.

So, my advice for hemangioma. Biopsy not advised, see a liver surgeon in a serious center, diagnosis is done my MRI, observe doubt symptoms and observe. Let the patient beg you for surgery, if significant increase in size and symptoms, we can do surgery. Embolization is possible.

Sometimes it's harmful. The role of the surgeon is to confirm the diagnosis, differentiate it from cancer, exclude causes of other symptoms and avoid unnecessary surgery that's the main thing. Surgery for severe symptoms of Kasabach-Merritt. Only for complicated symptomatic lesions, or where the

diagnosis is uncertain. Ladies and gentleman, I will conclude with a couple of questions. If you have a daughter or son with a liver tumor, would you go to a center or a competent surgeon or to a gynecologist. Professor Pfannenstiel for instance or another doctor. If your car has a problem,

would you go to a good mechanic once for all, or to a small shop for 20-40 times. It is a matter of experience and a matter of costs. And with this, I am ready for your questions. - [Audience Member #1] When have you personally operated on these lesions?

- [Speaker] I am. And the experience that I have in the past I seemed young but I practiced for many years. When I started 25-30 years ago, we were operating many of these because we were not so certain. Then MRI came, and MRI basically made the diagnosis so easy and straight-forward and we started observing

patients. We still do operate today, but they are very large tumors and when I do personally, I avoid the androbolization before because you have more skylotec reaction, just (grainy sound effect) to peel it away from the normal parenchymal.

This is our experience. - [Audience] Thank you. - [Speaker] Thank you very much, yes? - [Audience Member #2] Yes, one question. When you operate, and with all of the experience you have, what are the complications of

(mumbles) - [Speaker] The main, so first of all, there has been also an evolution in the type of operation we don't do anymore the resections where you have some bi-leaks. If you operate correctly, it's bleeding and one infection not one born. If you have to watch bi-leak is the one

that you have to watch and that's because the tissue is pushed away and you may miss something during the enucleation.

- We are talking about the current management of bleeding hemodialysis fistulas. I have no relevant disclosures. And as we can see there with bleeding fistulas, they can occur, you can imagine that the patient is getting access three times a week so ulcerations can't develop

and if they are not checked, the scab falls out and you get subsequent bleeding that can be fatal and lead to some significant morbidity. So fatal vascular access hemorrhage. What are the causes? So number one is thinking about

the excessive anticoagulation during dialysis, specifically Heparin during the dialysis circuit as well as with cumin and Xarelto. Intentional patient manipulati we always think of that when they move,

the needles can come out and then you get subsequent bleeding. But more specifically for us, we look at more the compromising integrity of the vascular access. Looking at stenosis, thrombosis, ulceration and infection. Ellingson and others in 2012 looked at the experience

in the US specifically in Maryland. Between the years of 2000/2006, they had a total of sixteen hundred roughly dialysis death, due to fatal vascular access hemorrhage, which only accounted for about .4% of all HD or hemodialysis death but the majority did come

from AV grafts less so from central venous catheters. But interestingly that around 78% really had this hemorrhage at home so it wasn't really done or they had experienced this at the dialysis centers. At the New Zealand experience and Australia, they had over a 14 year period which

they reviewed their fatal vascular access hemorrhage and what was interesting to see that around four weeks there was an inciting infection preceding the actual event. That was more than half the patients there. There was some other patients who had decoags and revisional surgery prior to the inciting event.

So can the access be salvaged. Well, the first thing obviously is direct pressure. Try to avoid tourniquet specifically for the patients at home. If they are in the emergency department, there is obviously something that can be done.

Just to decrease the morbidity that might be associated with potential limb loss. Suture repairs is kind of the main stay when you have a patient in the emergency department. And then depending on that, you decide to go to the operating room.

Perera and others 2013 and this is an emergency department review and emergency medicine, they use cyanoacrylate to control the bleeding for very small ulcerations. They had around 10 patients and they said that they had pretty good results.

But they did not look at the long term patency of these fistulas or recurrence. An interesting way to kind of manage an ulcerated bleeding fistula is the Limberg skin flap by Pirozzi and others in 2013 where they used an adjacent skin flap, a rhomboid skin flap

and they would get that approximal distal vascular control, rotate the flap over the ulcerated lesion after excising and repairing the venotomy and doing the closure. This was limited to only ulcerations that were less than 20mm.

When you look at the results, they have around 25 AV fistulas, around 15 AV grafts. The majority of the patients were treated with percutaneous angioplasty at least within a week of surgery. Within a month, their primary patency was running 96% for those fistulas and around 80% for AV grafts.

If you look at the six months patency, 76% were still opened and the fistula group and around 40% in the AV grafts. But interesting, you would think that rotating an adjacent skin flap may lead to necrosis but they had very little necrosis

of those flaps. Inui and others at the UC San Diego looked at their experience at dialysis access hemorrhage, they had a total 26 patients, interesting the majority of those patients were AV grafts patients that had either bovine graft

or PTFE and then aneurysmal fistulas being the rest. 18 were actually seen in the ED with active bleeding and were suture control. A minor amount of patients that did require tourniquet for a shock. This is kind of the algorithm when they look at

how they approach it, you know, obviously secure your proximal di they would do a Duplex ultrasound in the OR to assess hat type of procedure

they were going to do. You know, there were inciting events were always infection so they were very concerned by that. And they would obviously excise out the skin lesion and if they needed interposition graft replacement they would use a Rifampin soak PTFE

as well as Acuseal for immediate cannulation. Irrigation of the infected site were also done and using an impregnated antibiotic Vitagel was also done for the PTFE grafts. They were really successful in salvaging these fistulas and grafts at 85% success rate with 19 interposition

a patency was around 14 months for these patients. At UCS, my kind of approach to dealing with these ulcerated fistulas. Specifically if they bleed is to use

the bovine carotid artery graft. There's a paper that'll be coming out next month in JVS, but we looked at just in general our experience with aneurysmal and primary fistula creation with an AV with the carotid graft and we tried to approach these with early access so imagine with

a bleeding patient, you try to avoid using catheter if possible and placing the Artegraft gives us an opportunity to do that and with our data, there was no significant difference in the patency between early access and the standardized view of ten days on the Artegraft.

Prevention of the Fatal Vascular Access Hemorrhages. Important physical exam on a routine basis by the dialysis centers is imperative. If there is any scabbing or frank infection they should notify the surgeon immediately. Button Hole technique should be abandoned

even though it might be easier for the patient and decreased pain, it does increase infection because of that tract The rope ladder technique is more preferred way to avoid this. In the KDOQI guidelines of how else can we prevent this,

well, we know that aneurysmal fistulas can ulcerate so we look for any skin that might be compromised, we look for any risk of rupture of these aneurysms which rarely occur but it still needs to taken care of. Pseudoaneurysms we look at the diameter if it's twice the area of the graft.

If there is any difficulty in achieving hemostasis and then any obviously spontaneous bleeding from the sites. And the endovascular approach would be to put a stent graft across the pseudoaneurysms. Shah and others in 2012 had 100% immediate technical success They were able to have immediate access to the fistula

but they did have around 18.5% failure rate due to infection and thrombosis. So in conclusion, bleeding to hemodialysis access is rarely fatal but there are various ways to salvage this and we tried to keep the access viable for these patients.

Prevention is vital and educating our patients and dialysis centers is key. Thank you.

- So Beyond Vascular procedures, I guess we've conquered all the vascular procedures, now we're going to conquer the world, so let me take a little bit of time to say that these are my conflicts, while doing that, I think it's important that we encourage people to access the hybrid rooms,

It's much more important that the tar-verse done in the Hybrid Room, rather than moving on to the CAT labs, so we have some idea basically of what's going on. That certainly compresses the Hybrid Room availability, but you can't argue for more resources

if the Hybrid Room is running half-empty for example, the only way you get it is by opening this up and so things like laser lead extractions or tar-verse are predominantly still done basically in our hybrid rooms, and we try to make access for them. I don't need to go through this,

you've now think that Doctor Shirttail made a convincing argument for 3D imaging and 3D acquisition. I think the fundamental next revolution in surgery, Every subspecialty is the availability of 3D imaging in the operating room.

We have lead the way in that in vascular surgery, but you think how this could revolutionize urology, general surgery, neurosurgery, and so I think it's very important that we battle for imaging control. Don't give your administration the idea that

you're going to settle for a C-arm, that's the beginning of the end if you do that, this okay to augment use C-arms to augment your practice, but if you're a finishing fellow, you make sure you go to a place that's going to give you access to full hybrid room,

otherwise, you are the subservient imagers compared to radiologists and cardiologists. We need that access to this high quality room. And the new buzzword you're going to hear about is Multi Modality Imaging Suites, this combination of imaging suites that are

being put together, top left deserves with MR, we think MR is the cardiovascular imaging modality of the future, there's a whole group at NIH working at MR Guided Interventions which we're interested in, and the bottom right is the CT-scan in a hybrid op

in a hybrid room, this is actually from MD Anderson. And I think this is actually the Trauma Room of the future, makes no sense to me to take a patient from an emergency room to a CT scanner to an and-jure suite to an operator it's the most dangerous thing we do

with a trauma patient and I think this is actually a position statement from the Trauma Society we're involved in, talk about how important it is to co-localize this imaging, and I think the trauma room of the future is going to be an and-jure suite

down with a CT scanner built into it, and you need to be flexible. Now, the Empire Strikes Back in terms of cloud-based fusion in that Siemans actually just released a portable C-arm that does cone-beam CT. C-arm's basically a rapidly improving,

and I think a lot of these things are going to be available to you at reduced cost. So let me move on and basically just show a couple of examples. What you learn are techniques, then what you do is look for applications to apply this, and so we've been doing

translumbar embolization using fusion and imaging guidance, and this is a case of one of my partners, he'd done an ascending repair, and the patient came back three weeks later and said he had sudden-onset chest pain and the CT-scan showed that there was a

sutured line dehiscence which is a little alarming. I tried to embolize that endovascular, could not get to that tiny little orifice, and so we decided to watch it, it got worse, and bigger, over the course of a week, so clearly we had to go ahead and basically and fix this,

and we opted to use this, using a new guidance system and going directly parasternal. You can do fusion of blood vessels or bones, you can do it off anything you can see on flu-roid, here we actually fused off the sternal wires and this allows you to see if there's

respiratory motion, you can measure in the workstation the depth really to the target was almost four and a half centimeters straight back from the second sternal wire and that allowed us really using this image guidance system when you set up what's called the bullseye view,

you look straight down the barrel of a needle, and then the laser turns on and the undersurface of the hybrid room shows you where to stick the needle. This is something that we'd refined from doing localization of lung nodules

and I'll show you that next. And so this is the system using the C-star, we use the breast, and the localization needle, and we can actually basically advance that straight into that cavity, and you can see once you get in it,

we confirmed it by injecting into it, you can see the pseudo-aneurism, you can see the immediate stain of hematoma and then we simply embolize that directly. This is probably safer than going endovascular because that little neck protects about

the embolization from actually taking place, and you can see what the complete snan-ja-gram actually looked like, we had a pig tail in the aura so we could co-linearly check what was going on and we used docto-gramming make sure we don't have embolization.

This patient now basically about three months follow-up and this is a nice way to completely dissolve by avoiding really doing this. Let me give you another example, this actually one came from our transplant surgeon he wanted to put in a vas,

he said this patient is really sick, so well, by definition they're usually pretty sick, they say we need to make a small incision and target this and so what we did was we scanned the vas, that's the hardware device you're looking at here. These have to be

oriented with the inlet nozzle looking directly into the orifice of the mitro wall, and so we scanned the heart with, what you see is what you get with these devices, they're not deformed, we take a cell phone and implant it in your chest,

still going to look like a cell phone. And so what we did, image fusion was then used with two completely different data sets, it mimicking the procedure, and we lined this up basically with a mitro valve, we then used that same imaging guidance system

I was showing you, made a little incision really doing onto the apex of the heart, and to the eur-aph for the return cannula, and this is basically what it looked like, and you can actually check the efficacy of this by scanning the patient post operatively

and see whether or not you executed on this basically the same way, and so this was all basically developed basing off Lung Nodule Localization Techniques with that we've kind of fairly extensively published, use with men can base one of our thoracic surgeons

so I'd encourage you to look at other opportunities by which you can help other specialties, 'cause I think this 3D imaging is going to transform what our capabilities actually are. Thank you very much indeed for your attention.

- Thank you very much. After these beautiful two presentations a 4D ultrasound, it might look very old-fashioned to you. These are my disclosures. Last year, I presented on 4D ultrasound and the way how it can assess wall stress. Now, we know that from a biomechanical point,

it's clear that an aneurysm will rupture when the mechanical stress exceeds the local strength. So, it's important to know something about the state of the aortic wall, the mechanical properties and the stress that's all combined in the wall.

And that could be a better predictor for growth and potential rupture of the aneurysm. It has been performed peak wall stress analysis, using finite element analysis based on CT scan. Now, there has been a test looking at CT scans with and without rupture and given indication

what wall stress could predict in growth and rupture. Unfortunately, there has been no longitudinal studies to validate this system because of the limitations in radiation and nephrotoxic contrast. So, we thought that we could overcome these problems and building the possibilities for longitudinal studies

to do this similar assessment using ultrasound. As you can see here in this diagram in CT scan, mechanical properties and the wall thickness is fixed data based on the literature. Whereas with 3D ultrasound, you can get these mechanical properties from patient-specific imaging

that could give a more patient-specific mechanical AA model. We're still performing a longitudinal study. We started almost four years ago. We're following 320 patients, and every time when they come in surveillance, we perform a 3D ultrasound. I presented last year that we are able to,

with 3D ultrasound, we get adequate anatomy and the geometry is comparable to CT scan, and we get adequate wall stressors and mechanical parameters if we compare it with CT scan. Now, there are still some limitations in 3D ultrasound and that's the limited field of view and the cumbersome procedure and time-consuming procedures

to perform all the segmentation. So last year, we worked on increased field of view and automatic segmentation. As you can see, this is a single image where the aneurysm fits perfectly well in the field of view. But, when the aneurysm is larger, it will not fit

in a single view and you need multi-perspective imaging with multiple images that should be fused and so create one image in all. First, we perform the segmentation of the proximal and distal segment, and that's a segmentation algorithm that is

based on a well-established active deformable contour that was published in 1988 by Kass. Now, this is actually what we're doing. We're taking the proximal segment of the aneurysm. We're taking the distal segment. We perform the segmentation based on the algorithms,

and when we have the two images, we do a registration, sort of a merging of these imaging, first based on the central line. And then afterwards, there is an optimalisation of these images so that they finally perfectly fit on each other.

Once we've done that, we merge these data and we get the merged ultrasound data of a much larger field of view. And after that, we perform the final segmentation, as you can see here. By doing that, we have an increased field of view and we have an automatic segmentation system

that makes the procedure's analysis much and much less time-consuming. We validate it with CT scan and you can see that on the geometry, we have on the single assessment and the multi assessments, we have good similarity images. We also performed a verification on wall stress

and you can see that with these merged images, compared to CT scan, we get very good wall stress assessment compared to CT scan. Now, this is our view to the future. We believe that in a couple of years, we have all the algorithms aligned so that we can perform

a 3D ultrasound of the aorta, and we can see that based on the mechanical parameters that aneurysm is safe, or is maybe at risk, or as you see, when it's red, there is indication for surgery. This is where we want to go.

I give you a short sneak preview that we performed. We started the analysis of a longitudinal study and we're looking at if we could predict growth and rupture. As you can see on the left side, you see that we're looking at the wall stresses. There is no increase in wall stress in the patient

before the aneurysm ruptures. On the other side, there is a clear change in the stiffness of the aneurysm before it ruptures. So, it might be that wall stress is not a predictor for growth and rupture, but that mechanical parameters, like aneurysm stiffness, is a much better predictor.

But we hope to present on that more solid data next year. Thank you very much.

- Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen, good morning. I'd like to thank Dr. Veith for the opportunity to present at this great meeting. I have nothing to disclose. Since Dr. DeBakey published the first paper 60 years ago, the surgical importance of deep femoral artery has been well investigated and documented.

It can be used as a reliable inflow for low extremity bypass in certain circumstances. To revascularize the disease, the deep femoral artery can improve rest pain, prevent or delay the amputation, and help to heal amputation stump.

So, in this slide, the group patient that they used deep femoral artery as a inflow for infrainguinal bypass. And 10-year limb salvage was achieved in over 90% of patients. So, different techniques and configurations

of deep femoral artery angioplasty have been well described, and we've been using this in a daily basis. So, there's really not much new to discuss about this. Next couple minutes, I'd like to focus on endovascular invention 'cause I lot I think is still unclear.

Dr. Bath did a systemic review, which included 20 articles. Nearly total 900 limbs were treated with balloon angioplasty with or without the stenting. At two years, the primary patency was greater than 70%. And as you can see here, limb salvage at two years, close to, or is over 98% with very low re-intervention rate.

So, those great outcomes was based on combined common femoral and deep femoral intervention. So what about isolated deep femoral artery percutaneous intervention? Does that work or not? So, this study include 15 patient

who were high risk to have open surgery, underwent isolated percutaneous deep femoral artery intervention. As you can see, at three years, limb salvage was greater than 95%. The study also showed isolated percutaneous transluminal

angioplasty of deep femoral artery can convert ischemic rest pain to claudication. It can also help heal the stump wound to prevent hip disarticulation. Here's one of my patient. As you can see, tes-tee-lee-shun with near

or total occlusion of proximal deep femoral artery presented with extreme low-extremity rest pain. We did a balloon angioplasty. And her ABI was increased from 0.8 to 0.53, and rest pain disappeared. Another patient transferred from outside the facility

was not healing stump wound on the left side with significant disease as you can see based on the angiogram. We did a hybrid procedure including stenting of the iliac artery and the open angioplasty of common femoral artery and the profunda femoral artery.

Significantly improved the perfusion to the stump and healed wound. The indications for isolated or combined deep femoral artery revascularization. For those patient presented with disabling claudication or rest pain with a proximal

or treatable deep femoral artery stenosis greater than 50% if their SFA or femoral popliteal artery disease is unsuitable for open or endovascular treatment, they're a high risk for open surgery. And had the previous history of multiple groin exploration, groin wound complications with seroma or a fungal infection

or had a muscle flap coverage, et cetera. And that this patient should go to have intervascular intervention. Or patient had a failed femoral pop or femoral-distal bypass like this patient had, and we should treat this patient.

So in summary, open profundaplasty remains the gold standard treatment. Isolated endovascular deep femoral artery intervention is sufficient for rest pain. May not be good enough for major wound healing, but it will help heal the amputation stump

to prevent hip disarticulation. Thank you for much for your attention.

- So this was born out of the idea that there were some patients who come to us with a positive physical exam or problems on dialysis, bleeding after dialysis, high pressures, low flows, that still have normal fistulograms. And as our nephrology colleagues teach us, each time you give a patient some contrast,

you lose some renal function that they maintain, even those patients who are on dialysis have some renal function. And constantly giving them contrasts is generally not a good thing. So we all know that intimal hyperplasia

is the Achilles Heel of dialysis access. We try to do surveillance. Debbie talked about the one minute check and how effective dialysis is. Has good sensitivity on good specificity, but poor sensitivity in determining

dialysis access problems. There are other measured parameters that we can use which have good specificity and a little better sensitivity. But what about ultrasound? What about using ultrasound as a surveillance tool and how do you use it?

Well the DOQI guidelines, the first ones, not the ones that are coming out, I guess, talked about different ways to assess dialysis access. And one of the ways, obviously, was using duplex ultrasound. Access flows that are less than 600

or if they're high flows with greater than 20% decrease, those are things that should stimulate a further look for clinical stenosis. Even the IACAVAL recommendations do, indeed, talk about volume flow and looking at volume flow. So is it volume flow?

Or is it velocity that we want to look at? And in our hands, it's been a very, very challenging subject and those of you who are involved with Vasculef probably have the same thing. Medicare has determined that dialysis shouldn't, dialysis access should not be surveilled with ultrasound.

It's not medically necessary unless you have a specific reason for looking at the dialysis access, you can't simply surveil as much as you do a bypass graft despite the work that's been done with bypass graft showing how intervening on a failing graft

is better than a failed graft. There was a good meta-analysis done a few years ago looking at all these different studies that have come out, looking at velocity versus volume. And in that study, their conclusion, unfortunately, is that it's really difficult to tell you

what you should use as volume versus velocity. The problem with it is this. And it becomes, and I'll show you towards the end, is a simple math problem that calculating volume flows is simply a product of area and velocity. In terms of area, you have to measure the luminal diameter,

and then you take the luminal diameter, and you calculate the area. Well area, we all remember, is pi r squared. So you now divide the diameter in half and then you square it. So I don't know about you,

but whenever I measure something on the ultrasound machine, you know, I could be off by half a millimeter, or even a millimeter. Well when you're talking about a four, five millimeter vessel, that's 10, 20% difference.

Now you square that and you've got a big difference. So it's important to use the longitudinal view when you're measuring diameter. Always measure it if you can. It peaks distally, and obviously try to measure it in an non-aneurysmal area.

Well, you know, I'm sure your patients are the same as mine. This is what some of our patients look like. Not many, but this is kind of an exaggerated point to make the point. There's tortuosity, there's aneurysms,

and the vein diameter varies along the length of the access that presents challenges. Well what about velocity? Well, I think most of us realize that a velocity between 100 to 300 is probably normal. A velocity that's over 500, in this case is about 600,

is probably abnormal, and probably represents a stenosis, right? Well, wait a minute, not necessarily. You have to look at the fluid dynamic model of this, and look at what we're actually looking at. This flow is very different.

This is not like any, not like a bypass graft. You've got flow taking a 180 degree turn at the anastomosis. Isn't that going to give you increased turbulence? Isn't that going to change your velocity? Some of the flow dynamic principles that are important

to understand when looking at this is that the difference between plug and laminar flow. Plug flow is where every bit is moving at the same velocity, the same point from top to bottom. But we know that's not true. We know that within vessels, for the most part,

we have laminar flow. So flow along the walls tends to be a little bit less than flow in the middle. That presents a problem for us. And then when you get into the aneurysmal section, and you've got turbulent flow,

then all bets are off there. So it's important, when you take your sample volume, you take it across the whole vessel. And then you get into something called the Time-Averaged mean velocity which is a term that's used in the ultrasound literature.

But it basically talks about making sure that your sample volume is as wide as it can be. You have to make sure that your angle is as normal in 60 degrees because once you get above 60 degrees, you start to throw it off.

So again, you've now got angulation of the anastomosis and then the compliance of a vein and a graft differs from the artery. So we use the two, we multiply it, and we come up with the volume flow. Well, people have said you should use a straight segment

of the graft to measure that. Five centimeters away from the anastomosis, or any major branches. Some people have actually suggested just using a brachial artery to assess that. Well the problems in dialysis access

is there are branches and bifurcations, pseudoaneurysms, occlusions, et cetera. I don't know about you, but if I have a AV graft, I can measure the volume flow at different points in the graft to get different numbers. How is that possible?

Absolutely not possible. You've got a tube with no branches that should be the same at the beginning and the end of the graft. But again, it becomes a simple math problem. The area that you're calculating is half the diameter squared.

So there's definitely measurement area with the electronic calipers. The velocity, you've got sampling error, you've got the anatomy, which distorts velocity, and then you've got the angle with which it is taken. So when you start multiplying all this,

you've got a big reason for variations in flow. We looked at 82 patients in our study. We double blinded it. We used a fistulagram as the gold standard. The duplex flow was calculated at three different spots. Duplex velocity at five different spots.

And then the diameters and aneurysmal areas were noted. This is the data. And basically, what it showed, was something totally non-significant. We really couldn't say anything about it. It was a trend toward lower flows,

how the gradients (mumbles) anastomosis, but nothing we could say. So as you all know, you can't really prove the null hypothesis. I'm not here to tell you to use one or use the other, I don't think that volume flow is something that

we can use as a predictor of success or failure, really. So in conclusion, what we found, is that Debbie Brow is right. Clinical examinations probably still the best technique. Look for abnormalities on dialysis. What's the use of duplex ultrasound in dialysis or patients?

And I think we're going to hear that in the next speaker. But probably good for vein mapping. Definitely good for vein mapping, arterial inflow, and maybe predicting maturation. Thank you very much.

- You'll be pleased to know we've got a bit better at using ceiling mounted lead shields and goggles, but there's still room for improvement. These are my disclosures. I thought I'd start just by putting into context the exposures that we receive as operators. So medical diagnostics scans

can be anything up to 25 millisieverts. If you're a classified radiation worker you can only get 20 millisieverts per year. Background radiation, depending on where you live, is something between one and 10 millisieverts per year. And it varies from department to department.

But for a complex endovascular branch and fenestrated case you get typically 50 microsieverts of radiation outside the lead. What is irrefutable is that once you get to 100 millisieverts you have got a raised risk of solid cancers and leukemia.

What we do not know, we simply don't know, is what is the dose response below that 100 millisievert threshold, and is there any individual differences in sensitivity to radiation? Why don't we know?

Because we're no good at following up operators and patients after they receive an exposure. What we need is stringent study design, we need well defined populations, they need to be large studies, 10s of thousands, we need to control for

all the confounding factors for cancer, we need really high quality followup, and we need to know what dose we're receiving. This is my interventional radiology colleague. He's been there since the inception of the complex endovascular program at St. Thomas',

and I asked him to tell me what he did over the past 10 years. And you can see that this is his logbook. It excludes quite a number of perhaps lower exposure cases including GI cases, dilatations, nephrostomies. So he's done 1071 cases in 10 years.

He doesn't know his dose. But if you think per case exposure is 20, 40, or 60 microsieverts you can see that the exposures quickly build up. And in a 20-year career he's going to breach probably that 100 microsievert threshold.

So these numbers are just worth thinking about. So what evidence do we have that exposure causes DNA damage? It has been looked at in mice. If you expose mice they have an increased instance of lung tumors, for example. The radiation at low dose causes DNA damage.

It shortens the life span, and importantly, the risk is synergistic with other risks like smoking. In the course of this DNA damage and repair process, the repair process is not perfect. And eventually you get genomic instability,

and that's what causes cancer. When the cell is irradiated with low doses you also get generation of bad factors such as ROS and inflammatory factor. And we have shown in in operators that you get DNA damage before and after

you carry out fluoroscopically guided case. You can see here foci of this gamma H2AX which signal DNA damage in operators. And what happens over long term? There are markers you can look for long term that show that you're exhibiting genomic instability,

and this includes diccentrics. You can see these chromosomes are abnormal, and that happens as result of chronic radiation exposure. And micronuclei, so you can see that these cells express micronuclei. That is abnormal.

That is genomic instability and that means that your risk of cancer is increased. We haven't measured for these yet in operators, but they may well be present. So I think you need a combination of physical and biological dosimetry.

How do you do that? Well you need high throughput methods for doing it, which we don't have as yet. The current methods are laborious. You need to cont lots of cells and it takes a long time to do it.

But perhaps with the next generation high throughout sequencing this is what we'll be doing. Regular samples from operators and deciding whether there exhibiting genomic instability or not, should they be doing something other than carrying out endovascular operations.

In the meantime, radiation is really dangerous. I think that's what we've got to assume. No matter how much of a dose you're getting it's dangerous. The ALARA principles, you should hopefully all be familiar with, maximal shielding, and as mentioned,

the zero gravity suit. We've started using this. And obviously we wear leg shields. Just as something different, I mentioned that when your cell gets irradiated it produces lots of nasty factors

such as radioactive oxygen species and pro-inflammatory factors, and that can again cause DNA damage. Kieran Murphy spoke earlier on in the previous session about effective low-dose exposure. What they've done is given a cocktail of antioxidants

to patients who have cancer staging. And that actually reduces DNA damage. This is another study that came out recently, another cocktail of antioxidants, exposed to cells in vitro that were irradiated, and this is probably a less relevant study

because it's all in vitro. But again, in a very controlled situation these antioxidants do reduce the production of inflammatory factors in DNA damage. So perhaps we should all be taking a cocktail of pills before we operate.

So in summary, we live in a world of increasing radiation exposures. The health effects are unknown. We need better radiation in epidemiology, a combination of biological and physical dosimetry probably, and in the meantime we have to insist

on maximal protection and assume that all radiation is dangerous. Thank you very much.

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