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Hepatocellular Carcinoma (Multi-focal)|TACE|65|Male
Hepatocellular Carcinoma (Multi-focal)|TACE|65|Male
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Ablative Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
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Treatment Options- TransCarotid Artery Revascularization- TCAR | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
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Pulmonary Ablation | Interventional Oncology
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Bland Embolization | Interventional Oncology
Bland Embolization | Interventional Oncology
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Q&A Pulmonary Embolism | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
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Hemobilia | Biliary Intervention
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Treatment Options- CAS- Embolic Protection Device (EPD)- Proximal Protection | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
Treatment Options- CAS- Embolic Protection Device (EPD)- Proximal Protection | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
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Submassive PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
Submassive PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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Endoleak Case |
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The Case that Launched the Cornell PERT (PE Response Team) | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
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Introduction- Nursing Management in Prostate Artery Embolization | Nursing Management in Prostate Artery Embolization
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Protein Losing Enteropathy | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
Protein Losing Enteropathy | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
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Case- Brain Infarction | Brain Infarct After Gastroesophageal Variceal Embolization
Case- Brain Infarction | Brain Infarct After Gastroesophageal Variceal Embolization
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TIPS: Techniques- CO2 Venography | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
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Why Interventional Oncology | Interventional Oncology
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C. Cope and Access | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
C. Cope and Access | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
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Cone Beam CT | Interventional Oncology
Cone Beam CT | Interventional Oncology
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Treatment Options- CAS- Embolic Protection Device (EPD)- Distal Protection | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
Treatment Options- CAS- Embolic Protection Device (EPD)- Distal Protection | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
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Treatment Options | Pelvic Congestion Syndrome
Treatment Options | Pelvic Congestion Syndrome
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Case- May Thurner Syndrome | Pelvic Congestion Syndrome
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Diagnostic Criteria for CTEPH | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Diagnostic Criteria for CTEPH | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
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Case 1 - Non-healing heel wound, Rutherford Cat. 5, previous stroke | Recanalization, Atherectomy | Complex Above Knee Cases with Re-entry Devices and Techniques
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TIPS Case | Extreme IR
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IR in Egypt and Ethiopia | AVIR International-IR Sessions at SIR2019 MiddleEast & Africa Focus
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Indirect Angiography | Interventional Oncology
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Transcript

So, lets just start with like a basic case such as this. This is a guy with multifocal hypervascular tumors which was diagnostic of hepatocellula carcinoma. You can see Bilovar disease and he's got kind of labs that many

of us see in the mid-range overall chop UA. And so we chose to do chemoembolization. And I'm gonna just go through the basics of how we do chemoembolization. So, this is our initial workup. They usually get evaluated in a multidisplinary liver tumor board or I'd say about 50% of the patients just get a direct referral to IR instead.

So we do an initial outpatient consultation, get cross sectional imaging, labs, tumor markers, stage them. This is an example. I just kind of did a screenshot of our pre-procedural order set.

It constitutes of IV fluids, some steroids and antibiotics. And obviously antibiotics are different depending on your institution and in terms of your existence flora. So if you are getting this started at your own practice it's important to talk to your pharmacists and talk to infectious disease to find out what antibiotics are most appropriate in our specific

setting. Okay, so this is my basic template of how I do a liver angiogram. And I used to do a lot of abdominally aortogram just kinda with a multi-side hole flash catheter. I've gone away from that just because our arterial phase CT, or MRs

I find reasonable enough to where I don't feel I need an abdominal aortogram. So if I have the baseline imaging which has a really bad arterial phase then I might still do an abdominal aortogram but otherwise I'll skip that. And so, I'll typically first go to the SMA,

and I'll talk a little bit about my catheter selection. I tend to do a slow, long run and that's to extend it out into the portal venous phase to look for portal vein thrombosis. Obviously we're also looking for variance such as replace right hepatic artery etc.

And then I put the notation as to what my flow rates are. So my SMA run is a 3 for 30. And I find that this gets good antegrade flow, with minimal amount of reflux into the aorta.

So this is my ciliac run. I typically do a 4 for 15, then again this is a patient with standard branching anatomy. So in terms of catheter selection, I typically get arterial access with a five French sheath. And I know there's a big push to do radial access. We haven't moved

over to radial access much. Have you guys done much move your practice over to radial? We haven't. Anybody in the audience primarily doing radial access. >> A loud No. [CROSSTALK]

>> As all of you know there's a lot of radial access talks here. So I'm not gonna belabor the point about femoral verse radial. But we are traditionalist. I think that the one thing in livers if you are gonna do a lot of CRM CT, if you're gonna do radial you have to figure out a good way to coordinate

that. So that's one challenge. My personal preference is to use a 5 French 65 cm Simmons-1. And this is how I learned in fellowship. But I find that compared to a SOS, the AP diameter on a Simmons-1 is much fatter so it sits on the the back of the aorta.

So the nose sits well in the mesenteric vessels. It doesn't bounce out when you do your angiogram. So there's almost no contrast that refluxes down into the aorta. The key thing is forming a Simmons. There's a Cope suture technique and you can just search this on YouTube if you haven't heard of it or look in a Coffin/g or Balgy's/g

textbook. And I typical just position this at the branch vessel origin instead of just driving it out into the common hepatic, right hepatic, left hepatic etc. In rare cases I will use a 4 French C 2. But my go-to is a Simmons 1 on almost every case, so I just basically

tell the techs open it on the the table as they are prepping. What do you guys typically use? >> Cobra for us. >> Cobra for you? Okay. I use Mickles. Mickles? So a 100 cm? So that means like a 110 cm microcatheter is probably too short.

>> Yeah we use high, about 130s. >> 130s? Okay >> I think, what I mean you trained with me. >> So you brain washed me. >> I like your approach to the case. But I think that many people probably here,

how many people are using SOS Omni for this? Raise your hand. Most people are using reverse curve catheter? Raise your hand. So most are using Cobra's catheter, is that correct then?

>> Don't you think we can discuss that from the CT? If you have a celiac access that goes down then you need a Simmons one which is very convenient. If it goes up or goes straight Cobra is really sufficient. >> I use Simmons for all of them. Despite that.

It sits pretty well. Everybody has their preference, I think that's interesting but I don't know if makes a big difference. I think what makes a big difference is when you have large hypervascular tumors. Maybe be it's people with a lot of ascites and you need better imaging.

Cause then you can get your Cobra catheter out into the hepatic atrial tree and get some more robust runs. I think when you have, in those situations microcatheters often aren't enough. But I think otherwise it's sort of a dealers choice.

>> Right. We use a common hepatic run and using a Cobra so we can get really good pictures of the hepatic arteries. >> So John when you are doing that though, let's you have a guy who's been on Avastin four weeks ago right? And then you shove a Cobra out there. Are you having any cases of a lot of spasm,

dissection anything like that? Because we have seen that and- >> Very rare. That doesn't happen too often with us and the other catheter that we like, actually I like a lot is the RH catheter or Rosch Hepatic. They use a lot of that in Asia.

>> Any other suggestions? Any one else have a better idea? No? Okay. >> But I think one the interesting things as you sort of alluded to it, when you use a shorter catheter, Cobras can be shorter. The Simmons

when you order a special Simmons at 65 you can use shorter micro catheters. Because I think there's an advantage from an imaging stand point, the shorter microcatheters. When you use a 100 cm catheter you use a bare catheter like SOS or Mickleson you have to use longer microcatheters to get out into the liver.

And that's similar with the radial access, you would have longer microcatheters. It is dependent on that. There are equations that govern that principle. But I have seen when go to longer microcatheters, I don't often times don't get as good as imaging which is important in some of

these air piece we do. So I'd like to you a shorter base catheter when possible. >> I think like if we've done comparisons within patients comparing like Prowler 110 verses a Prowler 150 and there is a, even though the PSI ratings are the same.

There's a remarkable difference in terms of the flow dynamics, in terms of the image quality of a 110 compared to 150. So that's become our preference, at least to use 65 cm which is nice and short and will fit with several inches outside

the sheath. In this case we did celiac. Let's see if this plays. Oh, it's playing up there. Okay. So if you recall we had bilobar tumors. And so this is a Progreat 2.8 French selective catherization of the left.

And you can see kind of infiltrative tumor on the left. And then we switched over to the right. So my initial plan was to treat the right side, and he has multifocal tumor on the right.

So in this case I elected to actually treat the left first just because he had infiltrative tumor. So I went back to the left and did a TACE there and then brought him back for a TACE on the right side. I won't discuss the details of how we do chemoembolization. There's

plenty of other workshops for that. But just real briefly in terms of this- >> Do you wanna talk a little bit about, you mentioned a microcatheter, one or two- >> Yeah >> You've mentioned a Prowler and-

>> And I'm gonna go over that. I'll bring that up, yeah. Okay, so this is our real brief screenshot about post-procedure order set. Again standard nursing stuff like vital signs post-op check etc diet.

And then again we have a standard antibiotics that we use in our hospital and then we kind of have this mishmash of different types of pain meds, steroids and antinausea stuff. So we just kind of have this blank very standardized order steps for basically every patient. Bob mentioned in terms of microcatheters selection. I think their

is a large debate about this. And this is what we stock. I look at it as three categories, like large small and super small. The large one's we use probably for 90% of our work, these are the 2.8 French distal outer diameters.

We mostly stop the Progreat mostly because we have good contracting on with Terumo. Again as disclosure I don't have any relationship with any of these companies. This are great for diagnostic angiograms and lobar treatments. I personally don't like them for really selective super selective

sub-segmental treatments. Any case with glue or onyx, I find that the dead space in a Renegade Hi-Flo or Progreat is really high. So putting onyx of NBCA through these catheters can be a little challenging. And then moving down to the small microcatheters, this is probably

our other 15% of cases, the 2.3 French distal outer diameter. My personal preference is the Prowler plus. These are great for coil embolization because your ID is around 0.021 so it fits an 018 coil really well. Great for sentimental infusions but the diagnostic angiograms are

obviously not as good because your PSI is limited. The super small once we use I would say rarely. This are for like ultra segmental sub-segmental infusions. So I'll use this in probably about maybe 2 or 3% of cases at most. They are great for really small vessels.

Any case with glue or onyx they work wonderfully. If you are gonna do particles, we use this, I use a curve tip Excelsior SL10 for our prostrate artery embolizations. And so if we inject 1 to 300 micron embosphers we just have to dilute it like crazy. And it will still go, you just have to have it diluted.

The diagnostic component of these catheters are terrible so your diagnostic angiography is almost, is borderline useless. So that's one thing to keep in mind. I just listed the more well-selling brands. There's obviously a ton of different manufacturers which you can see down at the exhibit booths. Any preferences for you guys?

>>We do. We have the same practice. We start with 2.8 and when needed we switch to angulated or smaller diameter if needed, for the right gastric for instance. >> John?

>>I'd start with a good 5 French runs and then once I need to get selective I use 2.3 French Prowler plus and a Fathom wire. And for me, in my hands, I can get into any artery with that combination. [CROSSTALK]. >>You kind of skip the Progreat/Renegade Hi-Flo and then

just go from base catheter- >> Go base to - >> Small. >> I skip the whole large microcatheters. >> Just to be a little bit of a devil's advocate. Again, I don't have a horse in the race here and there are a lot of microcatheters.

Probably people in the room are using microcatheters that aren't listed here. But the Prowler plus, again it goes back to we all have our own contracts but that's about twice as expensive as these other catheters listed. >>I only open one catheter instead of two.

>> I couldn't tell you the last time I opened two. But in the imaging it's not very good. You said okay diagnostic angiography. But I think that it's actually relatively poor diagnostic angiography with the Prowler plus. I get it, you're doing your big runs is with your different practice.

You're putting in your 4 or 5 French catheter out into the common or proper hepatic. But it's just something to take into consideration. It depends on how distal and selective you're going to be. But some of these other microcatheters will tract just as well as a Prowler.

>> Is it through your post-op procedure,orders, post-procedure orders, do you admit your patients anymore or do you admit some or none-? >> You mean for chemoembolization? >> Yeah. >> We admit probably 25% right now. Again it's a practice variation.

I think that all of that is probably local and depending on your patient population. Honestly I admit that the guys who want that free dinner, the crappy hospital food. So most of them we're doing as out patients.

Any other, I mean does anyone have any other thoughts on microcatheter selection, how they do it so that we can all benefit from that? Cause I think there's a lot of debate here and there's obviously no right answer. >> Does anyone use the nitinal hypotube high pressure microcatheters that you can put 1200 PSI through an 021?

>>So that's the direction [CROSSTALK]. >>Correct. >> Some people see it as a nice hybrid between the two, they can do better imaging and then if they have coil work to do, they can

engage their coils with less chance for buckling etc. And get into smaller vessels. Just something to consider. >> I think the bottom line is no matter what liver therapy you're doing or if you're trying to embolize something in the liver otherwise is to get good imaging.

And there different ways to do it. There's a trade off between being able to get good imaging, and it tracking in different things so there's a wide variety. One thing you didn't bring up is microwires

I don't know- [CROSSTALK] >> That's right. No, no I didn't bring that up but it's something we can talk about. But real quick are people doing routine coil embolization through the high-flow catheters, through 2.8 French? >> Yeah.

>> Yeah? Any issues are you guys getting? Because the ID is big right. So it's like an 027 so you have a lot of dead space. Any time I know I'm gonna coil a GDA I tend to go down, I down size. >> It depends which coil you use actually.

If you use Concerto for instance it will be trapped within the lumen. So it's not ideal for this kind of microcath, but if you go for the other companies, the Cook coils it works well, so no issues

with that. >> Well it depends if your putting a detachable coil versus a, and if you're going to push it in, if you're going to puff to get it in. >> And I guess that was more referring to let's say a pushable

fibered 018. Right, so where you're basically pushing it out with a 018 wire pusher. At least we've had issues with, you get that coil wire overlap,

so that's why we've routinely kind of gone to the 2.3 French if we're gonna do a lot of pushable coil work. So any other thoughts from anyone on how they do it? >> Okay, Bob you mentioned something about wires. You have a wire preference? >> Well, I typically, I'm really partial to the double angle Glide GT wire,

a Terumo wire. I like it. It's a short angle on it but it selects a lot of branches I don't use it if patient has been on chemotherapy and I'm worried about it will get stuck on one little branches, and you can cause some vasospasm etc.

If I need to shaper wire, currently I'm using the Fathom which is Bosche Scientific. It's usually my shapeable wire of choice. And again when I'm worried about vessels I'm worried about, it's something really straight, a falciform for instance, I wanna get there far out there. I'll use a Headliner 90 wire.

>> And were similar, we use I think Fathom for half the work and then we'll use an 014 Synchro for matching it up with the smaller microcatheters. Those are very shapeable. And very soft and atraumatic, so kind of a similar concept. John any,

>> I usually start with a Fathom and it's the opposite, I use the double angle GT once I've trouble selecting. >> Anything else? >> We use Progreat so there's a guide wire inside. So we solve most of the problems and when we have issues I use the same Terumo double angulation,

mainly for right gastric. Because it's really well angulated and you can't go backwards. >> Okay. >>If people are not familiar with these catheters, I think they

exhibit hall is open. A lot of these companies have all of these wires and these catheters. It be be good to just go through it and look at them. >> Anyone have suggestions on good wire-catheter combinations that we can all use?

>> What size Fathom do you use? Do you use the 016 or 014? >> Our preference is to use an 016 with the large microcatheters, I think there's a little better fit. The 014 with a 2.8 French has a bigger mismatch. So even when you're able to get out there there's sometimes a little

more hesitancy in pushing your microcatheter over it. Believe it or not the 016 is just a little smoother. I use a Fathom 016 and then if I'm gonna use the Prowler or an Excelsior we'll go with an 014 Syncro >> Another cheap wire I use is a Runthrough.

That's like $80. 014 wire, it's shapeable. >> Is it transcend? >> Yeah. >> Guide wire, very cheap as well. >> Still doesn't make up for

your Prowler plus but okay, >> To drive a Mercedes or an Audi. >> And I work at a state institution so I couldn't care less how much that cost, so we just run up the bill on everybody.

them so my particular area of interest is a blade of radium ization and what we'd like to do is to break the liver

down into a bunch of little tiny perfused volumes off of a single vascular pedicle or what we call angio zones and those are those allow us to segment out if you only have small volume disease for example like here in

segment three why do I have to treat the entire left to paddock low I can actually treat just that small portion just like it what it tastes only now I'm administering y9t but since it's expendable liver I

can administer doses that are way higher orders of magnitudes higher than what I could if our infusing into the liver just on its own so here's an example of that if you look at this lesion in the right of panic lobe you'll see these

little lines over them what we want to achieve is around a 205 GRA threshold for these lesions that's the red line everything that's south of red in terms of color orange Holly to blue is not cold enough to kill tumor so if we

administer a dose of a tea grade to the lobe we get this coverage which is to be a partial response if I administer 150 grey suddenly that red line gets larger what happens when you administer 400 grey now you've officially covered the

entire lesion and so you're going to lose the adjacent liver at those kind of doses and as well - what what the real question then is not sort of how much dose you give it's you give what you need to to ablate the tumor in its

entirety and you see what the patient's left with if someone's left with anatomically a lot of remnant liver because of how you've segmented out that lesion then go ahead and dose extremely high and that's essentially what we've

seen in pathologic results it's one of the highest things of high school pathological crosa rates you can achieve with a trans arterial therapy it's highly competitive with thermal ablation in the correctly selected bleezin

so this is an example of what it looks like when you segment out a little lesion like this and this patient ultimately went to resection and this was a complete pathologic necrosis but as you can see even it was a cirrhotic

patient we chose a very small volume of liver that we felt the patient would tolerate so that's a blade of vernalization let's take a look at what looks like in real time so we have a little capsular lesion we felt that

ablating this patient who was a potential transplant candidate we felt we can probably with a blade of radium realization so you go in and this is the comb beam CT that looks at a complete enhancement of the lesion within the NGO

zone this is what the MAA looks like when we administer it you can see how it tends to cluster within the tumor but you can see what the adverse territory is the liver adjacent to it this is what the engine room looks like how highly

selective it is the day of and this is what the wine ID actually looks like is the wine 90 doing its job and you can see how conformal it is there's no risk whatsoever to the liver that's adjacent outside of that field of

a maximum of around 11 millimeters and this is a patient at one month with a complete imaging response and this patient never developed a recurrent to the site and what's actually sole mode of treatment for this person's liver

cancer this is how you get complete pathologic response if you look at those little tiny grey dots in there those are actually the spheres within tiny little vessels within the tumor sometimes they go even to the portal branch but you can

see how they're not clustered uniformly but when you make them super hot that allows them to give range where otherwise they would be fine a little bit short so this also applies to the whole lobe this was a patient that had a

very unusual presentation of colon cancer that was invading the portal II we weren't sure what to do with this patient no one was because a very rare occurrence so we said well we would like

to resect him but there's not enough liver and we're not sure if this person's gonna survive because we've never seen portal cancer invading the portal vein so we said let's treat it with the radiation lobectomy and what's

cool here is if you look at the the arteries even though the tumor is invading the portal vein it's bringing arterial supply along with it like a vagabond and that's the conduit that allows us to treat these patients so

when we saw that we felt this patient we good candidate for irradiation lobectomy which is applying an ablative dose of y9t to the entire low not just a small segment in patients where otherwise cannot because of the anatomy the tumor

or if you're trying to shrink that lobe to get that person ready for surgery why because if you look at the size of the lobe on the left from this first image and compare it here you can see how much larger it got what happens is that part

that the surgeon ultimately tens on resecting in volutes over time and becomes completely vitalized and turns into scar tissue so we know that if a surgeon goes in afterwards to cut it out it's going to not result in liver

failure and that level of security allows people to have sir who otherwise wouldn't this patient is not going to have metastatic disease because we followed their blood level markers let me see how low they are and

is going to have enough liver remnant so the patient went to resection and this is the pathologic specimen and this was also a complete pathologic necrosis so I

quick I did want to mention t-carr briefly and try to get you guys closer to back on time this is a hybrid procedure this is combining the surgical procedure we talked about first and carotid stenting it takes combined

carotid exposure at the base of the clavicle or just above the clavicle and reverses blood flow just like we talked about but tastes slightly different technique or approach to doing this and then you put the stent in from a drug

carotid access here's the components of the device right up by the neck there is where the incision is made just above the clavicle and you have this sheet that's about eight French in size that only goes in about us to 2 cm or 1 and a

half cm overall into the vessel and then that sheath is sutured to the the chest wall and then it's got a side arm that goes what's labeled number six here is this flow reversal urn enroute neuroprotection kit it reverses the

blood flow and then you get a femoral sheath in the vein right in the common femoral vein and you reverse the blood flow so this is a case a picture from our institution up on the right is the patient's neck and that's the carotid

exposure and the initial sheath is in place so the sidearm of that sheath is the enroute protection system which is going up up at the top of the image there we're gonna back bleed that let that sidearm of that sheath continue to

bleed up to the very top and then connect that to the common femoral venous sheet that we have in place there's a stepwise of that and then ultimately what we see at the end of the procedure is that filter inside that

little canister can be interrogated after and you can see the debris this is in the box D here on the bottom left the debris that we captured during the flow reversal and this is a what we call a passive and then active flow reversal

system so once the system is in place the direct exposure carotid sheath in place the flow controller and AV shunt in place you see the direction of blood flow so now all that blood flow in that common carotid artery is going reverse

direction and so when you place a sheath or wire and and ultimately through that sheath up by the carotid artery there's no risk for distal embolization because everything is flowing in Reverse here's a couple

case examples ferns from our institution this is a patient who had a symptomatic critical greater than 90% stenosis has tandems to nose he's so one proximal at the origin and one a little bit more distal we you can see the little

retractors down at the base of the image there in the sheath that's essentially the extent of the sheath from the bottom of that image into the vessel only about a cm or two post angioplasty instant patient tolerated that quite well here's

another 71 year-old asymptomatic patient greater than 90% stenosis pretty calcified lesion a little more extensive than maybe with the CT shows there's the angiography and then ultimately a post stent placement using the embolic

protection device and overall the trials have shown good good safety met profile overall compared to carotid surgery so it's a minimum minimal exposure not nearly as large the risk of stroke is less because you're not mucking around

up there you're using the best of a low profile system with flow reversal albeit with a mini surgical exposure overall we've actually have an abstract or post trip this year's meeting this is just a snapshot of that you can check it out

this is our one year experience we've had comparable low complication rates overall in our experience so in summary

blasian it's well tolerated and folks with advanced pulmonary disease there's a prospective trial that showed that

there are pulmonary function does not really change after an ablation but the important part here is a lot of these folks who are not candidates for surgical resection have bad hearts a bad coronary disease and bad lungs to where

a lot of times that's actually their biggest risk not their small little lung cancer and you can see these two lines here the this is someone who dr. du Puy studied ablation and what happens if you recur and how your survival matches that

and turns out that if you recur and in if you don't actually a lot of times this file is very similar because these folks are such high risk for mortality outside or even their cancer so patient selection is really important for this

where do we use it primary metastatic lesions essentially once we feel that someone is not a good surgical candidate and they have maintained pulmonary function they have a reasonable chance for surviving a long

time we'll convert them to being an ablation candidate here's an example of a young woman who had a metastatic colorectal met that was treated with SPRT and it continued to grow and was avid so you can see the little nodule

and then the lower lobe and we paste the placement prone and we'd Vance a cryo plugs in this case of microwave probe into it and you turn off about three to five minutes and it's usually sufficient to burn it it cavitate s-- afterwards

which is expected but if you follow it over time the lesion looks like this and you say okay fine did it even work but if you do a PET scan you'll see that there's no actually activity in there and that's usually pretty definitive for

those small lesions like that about three centimeters is the most that will treat in a lot of the most attic patients but you can certainly go a little bit larger here's her follow-up actually two years

that had no recurrence so what do you do when you have something like this so this is encasing the entire left upper lobe this patient underwent radiation therapy had a low area of residual activity we followed it and it turns out

that ended up being positive on a biopsy for additional cancer so now we're playing cleanup which is that Salvage I mentioned earlier we actually fuse the PET scan with the on table procedural CT so we know which part of all that

consolidated lung to target we place our probes and this is what looks like afterwards it's a big hole this is what happens when you microwave a blade previously radiated tissue having said that this

was a young patient who had no other options and this is the only side of disease this is probably an okay complication for that patient to undergo so if you follow up with a PET scan three months later there's no residual

activity and that patient actually never recurred at that site so what about

we're gonna move on to embolization there a couple different categories of embolization bland embolization is when

you just administering something that is choking off the blood supply to the tumor and that's how it's going to exert its effect here's a patient with a very large metastatic renal cell lesion to the humerus this is it on MRI this is it

per angiogram and this patient was opposed to undergo resection so we bland embolized it to reduce bleeding and I chose this one here because we used sequentially sized particles ranging from 100 to 200 all

the way up to 700 and you can actually if you look closely can see sort of beads stacked up in the vessel but that's all that it's doing it's just reducing the blood supply basically creating a stroke within the tumor that

works a fair amount of time and actually an HCC some folks believe that it were very similar to keep embolization which is where at you're administering a chemo embolic agent that is either l'p hi doll with the chemo agent suspended within it

or drug eluting beads the the Chinese have done some randomized studies on whether or not you can also put alcohol in the pie at all and that's something we've adopted in our practice too so anything that essentially is a chemical

outside of a bland agent can be considered a key mobilization so here's a large segment eight HCC we've all been here before we'll be seeing common femoral angiogram a selective celiac run you can make sure

the portals open in that segment find the anterior division pedicle it's going to it select it and this is after drug living bead embolization so this is a nice immediate response at one month a little bit of gas that's expected to be

within there however this patient had a 70% necrosis so it wasn't actually complete cell death and the reason is it's very hard to get to the absolute periphery of the blood supply to the tumor it is able to rehab just like a

stroke can rehab from collateral blood supply so what happens when you have a lesion like this one it's kind of right next to the cod a little bit difficult to see I can't see with ultrasound or CT well you can go in and tag it with lip

Idol and it's much more conspicuous you can perform what we call dual therapy or combination therapy where you perform a microwave ablation you can see the gas leaving the tumor and this is what it looks like afterwards this patient went

to transplant and this was a complete pathologic necrosis so you do need the concept of something that's ablative very frequently to achieve that complete pathologic necrosis rates very hard to do that with ischemia or chemotherapy

alone so what do you do we have a

happy to take any questions or in

ultrasound we don't usually use contrast but one of the procedures were doing for the treatment management of a pulmonary embolism is the ultrasound assisted Rumble Isis do we need contrast so for the thrombolysis is the catheter itself

so you still need to give contrast two to do the procedure but while the catheter is running you don't need to give any contrast four for that is that what you're we don't usually use contrast for ultrasound but

all right when you're treating how will you know that it sliced the clot is less what you frequently do is check the pressures so that catheter allows you to check the pressure and so once you start a patient so you do a pulmonary

angiogram which requires contrast and you put the ultrasound assisted thrombolysis catheter in the eCos catheter then after 24 hours or 12 hours you can measure a pressure directly through that catheter and if the

patient's pressure is reduced you don't have to give them anymore injections yeah and if we are using ultrasound for treatment is it possible to do it for diagnostic purposes No so not for non the prominent artists for

diagnostic imaging unless you're doing an echocardiogram which is technically ultrasound in the heart but for treatment otherwise you need you will need to inject some dye oh thank you

hi I'm Katrina I'm NGH I have one more question okay for your patients with chronic PE do most of them begin with acute PE or if they very separate sort of presentations that's that's a great question so all of them

had acute PE because you can't have chronic without acute but a lot of them are not ever caught so you'll have these patients who had PE that was silent that maybe one day they woke up and had a little bit of chest pain and then it

went away couple days later they thought they had a bronchitis or a cold and then you find out five years later that they had a huge PE that didn't affect them so badly and then they have these chronic findings they usually show up to their

family practice doctor again with hey I just can't walk as far as I can I have a little heaviness they rule them out from a heart attack but it turns out that they have CTF so you you all of them had a Q PE but it takes a lot of time and

effort to find out whether they truly have chronic PE so it's usually in a delayed fashion thank you all right well thank you guys again appreciate it [Applause]

to have severe humor billion almost all all those that need your attention is about aghori portal veins though can be tremendously so the differentiation between hepatic artery and portal vein

bleeding is the big differentiator that will require you to do something about it most of the times if you injure the portal vein or hepatic vein these usually heal by themselves and it's counterintuitive the management of this

is actually to upsize your tube and they make sure the side holes are not adjacent to the bleeding vein it's crossing so it's counterintuitive that you upsize - for bleeding injure the vein more but

eventually those veins will thromboses off for that little branch the difficult situations of sahiba heavy hit an artery and here's one way we did a gram you can see the pacification the reason why you want to go into the peripheral duct I'll

show you always near the hilum is actually also very big blood are the blood vessels and the reason why we go peripheral the number of large vessels are much greater diminished so you always want in this patient was

transferred for an outside Hospital my PTC was performed by someone who obviously doesn't do a lot of these and access directly into the coma bar duct you can see all these filling defects all these filling defects in the combat

like those or clots and filled with someone who's actually had life-threatening significant he Mobilia and required what we did was they were just pacify the system get another peripheral access

right biliary system and embolize the track coming out and thereby removing the original axis that was placed by the outside hospital interventionists obviously the ones that aureus the most of the narco that will kill people is

the ones that hit our ease and pseudoaneurysm formation or tara Venus fistulas and I can be problematic in my only real ways their dresses trans cap the treatments a patient would have an angio we'd have to get into the pedagogy

find the feeding or it almost always though and we can predict way that bleeding artery is it's where your Y is crossing the architecture of the artery tree frequently you will not see it until you remove the tube so almost

always you would have to prep the right flank prep the groin to an angiogram with the tube in because you don't really want to be rushing at the beginning of your procedure you frequently do the angiogram not see

bleeding and then a second operator needs the described brake scrub get non sterile axes remove the blue tube repeat the angiogram and almost certainly then you'll see it but again it's very

predictable where it is but every now and then you get caught out and the bleeding side can be remote from where your actual Y or actual access transgressor you you do need to have a careful eye looking for that and so you

know when we looked at out and we do large numbers of blurry drainage the best predictor or and like I said Arturo Kimber Billy is actually related to your first tube and the size that you place and it's also

interesting like I said every now and then you're gonna see that bleeding arteries are actually not liver arteries and you can't bleed from the GDA internal memory from other procedures intercostal artery from where you put

your tube first needle through the liver through sorry through the ribs itself it's actually access site rather than your internal parenchymal your liver so it's actually important to also do sometimes it a water gram check the

intercostal artery because you'll miss it by doing a celiac or teragrams hepatic artery gram and don't understand why the patients still bleeding and here's just example of what a pseudoaneurysm does when we remove the

chief we can see the image on the right the blue tube has mean withdraw back and they you can see quite clearly there and sorry the pseudoaneurysm of the paddock right re and like any other immunization is important to go front door back door

implies across mainly because the liver architecture has a rich collateralization that will feed before and after and like I said the lake complication zone was or derived and related to tube maintenance and tubes

catching on to things in dislodgement and so these are just really you know your whoever answers the phones whether it's the physicians on call they have to manage with maintenance of these tubes and really just keeping these tubes open

as long as possible it's amazing how long some of these tubes do last in particular in benign but Lewis structures so management of these is really or expectant and the right advice and frequently just need to

get these tubes changements they're clogged sufficiently the difficult ones

of these issues filters are generally still use or were used up until a few years ago or five years ago almost exclusively and then between five years and a decade ago there was this new concept of proximal protection or flow

reversal that came about and so this is the scenario where you don't actually cross the lesion but you place a couple balloons one in the external carotid artery one in the common carotid artery and you stop any blood flow that's going

through the internal carotid artery overall so if there's no blood flowing up there then when you cross the lesion without any blood flow there's nothing nowhere for it to go the debris that that is and then you can angioplasty and

or stent and then ultimately place your stent and then get out and then aspirate all of that column of stagnant blood before you deflate the balloons and take your device out so step-by-step I'll walk through this a couple times because

it's a little confusing at least it was for me the first time I was doing this but common carotid artery clamping just like they do in surgery right I showed you the pictures of the surgical into our directa me they do the vessel loops

around the common carotid approximately the eca and the ICA and then actually of clamping each of those sites before they open up the vessel and then they in a sequential organized reproducible manner uncle Dee clamp or unclamp each of those

sites in the reverse order similar to this balloon this is an endovascular clamping if you will so you place this common carotid balloon that's that bottom circle there you inflate you you have that clamping that occurs right

so what happens then is that you've taken off the antegrade blood flow in that common carotid artery on that side you have retrograde blood flow that's coming through from the controller circulation and you have reverse blood

flow from the ECA the external carotid artery from the contralateral side that can retrograde fill the distal common carotid stump and go up the ica ultimately then you can suspend the antegrade blood flow up the common

carotid artery as I said and then you clamp or balloon occlude the external carotid artery so now if you include the external carotid artery that second circle now you have this dark red column of blood up the distal common carotid

artery all the way up the internal carotid artery up until you get the Circle of Willis Circle of Willis allows cross filling a blood on the contralateral side so the patient doesn't undergo stroke because they've

got an intact circulation and they're able to tolerate this for a period of time now you can generally do these with patients awake and assess their ability to tolerate this if they don't tolerate this because of incomplete circle or

incomplete circulation intracranial injury really well then you can you can actually condition the patient to tolerate this or do this fairly quickly because once the balloons are inflated you can move fairly quickly and be done

or do this in stepwise fashion if you do this in combination with two balloons up you have this cessation of blood flow in in the internal carotid artery you do your angioplasty or stenting and post angioplasty if need be and then you

aspirate your your sheath that whole stagnant column of blood you aspirate that with 320 CC syringes so all that blood that's in there and you can check out what you see in the filter but after that point you've taken all that blood

that was sitting there stagnant and then you deflate the balloons you deflate them in stepwise order so this is what happens you get your o 35 stiff wire up into the external carotid artery once it's in the external cart or you do not

want to engage with the lesion itself you take your diagnostic catheter up into the external carotid artery once you're up there you take your stiff wire right so an amp lats wire placed somewhere in the distal external carotid

artery once that's in there you get your sheath in place and then you get your moment devices a nine French device overall and it has to come up and place this with two markers the proximal or sorry that distal markers in the

proximal external carotid artery that's what this picture shows here the proximal markers in the common carotid artery so there's nothing that's touched that lesion so far in any of the images that I've shown and then that's the moma

device that's one of these particular devices that does proximal protection and and from there you inflate the balloon in the external carotid artery you do a little angiographic test to make sure that there's no branch

proximal branch vessels of the external carotid artery that are filling that balloon is inflated now in this picture once you've done that you can inflate the common carotid artery once you've done that now you can take an O on four

wire of your choice cross the lesion because there's no blood flow going so even if you liberated plaque or debris it's not going to go anywhere it's just gonna sit there stagnant and then with that cross do angioplasty this is what

it looks like in real life you have a balloon approximately you have a balloon distally contrast has been injected it's just sitting there stagnant because there's nowhere for it to go okay once the balloons are inflated you've

temporarily suspends this suspended any blood flow within this vasculature and then as long as you confirm that there's no blood flow then you go ahead and proceed with the intervention you can actually check pressures we do a lot of

pressure side sheath pressure measurements the first part of this is what the aortic pressure and common carotid artery pressures are from our sheath then we've inflated our balloons and the fact that there's even any

waveform is actually representative of the back pressure we're getting and there's actually no more antegrade flow in the common carotid artery once you've put this in position then you can stent this once the stent is in place and you

think you like everything you can post dilated and then once you've post dilated then you deflate your balloon right so you deflate your all this debris that's shown in this third picture is sitting there stagnant

you deflate the external carotid artery balloon first and then your common carotid artery and prior to deflating either the balloons you've aspirated the blood flow 320 CC syringes as I said we filter the contents of the third syringe

to see if there's any debris if there's debris and that third filter and that third syringe that we actually continue to ask for eight more until we have a clean syringe but there's no filter debris out because

that might tell us that there's a lot of debris in this particular column of blood because we don't want to liberate any of that so when do you not want to use this well what if the disease that you're dealing with extends past the

common carotid past the internal carotid into the common carotid this device has to pass through that lesion before it gets into the external carotid artery so this isn't a good device for that or if that eca is occluded so you can't park

that kampf balloon that distal balloon to balloon sheath distally into the external carotid artery so that might not be good either if the patient can't tolerate it as I mentioned that's something that we assess for and you

want to have someone who's got some experience with this is a case that it takes a quite a bit of kind of movement and coordination with with the physician technologists or and co-operators that

much more controversial so you it was pretty clear that we have to rescue

massive PD patients from death but with these statistics what are we supposed to do with sub massive PE well are we supposed to prevent mortality it's gonna be hard to do if the mortality is only 2 to 3% because you're trying to really

improvements of a very low statistic are you trying to reduce the rate of hemodynamic deterioration that's a possibility what about long-term disability if you remove clot upfront

will these patients do better six months one year or two years down the road frankly we don't know the answer to any of this and the reason is that the pytho trial made things quite difficult for us to interpret the pytho trial was the

trial that was going to answer all uncertainty this was a trial where it took some massive PD patients in that high-risk intermediate category and randomized them to receive a bolus of tenecteplase which is similar to TPA but

is not the same versus anticoagulation alone what did it show well it showed there was no difference in death between tenecteplase and placebo so they actually gave a placebo drug so that no it was a double blinded

study now if you look at the next line though a lot more patients decompensated if they receive the placebo than that's not to place this is not a bad thing you know it's not it's not great when you have to intubate somebody or initiate

pressors so if you can avoid that outcome that's it that's a pretty good thing so maybe it is the right thing to give systemic thrombolysis in the setting of sub massive PE problem was this the bleeding you look down here

there was an eleven percent rate of major bleeding in the tenecteplase arm there was a two percent rate of intracranial hemorrhage so now we've got this therapeutic window that's hard to interpret so we seem to be improving

outcomes from an efficacy standpoint but then we're also increasing the rate of bleeding so basically what we've sort of coalesced around is that systemic thrombolysis has a questionable risk benefit profile because the rate of

bleeding and the rate of really serious bleeding is makes us nervous so is that an opportunity for catheter director thrombolysis and I'll call this the poster child for Catherine throwing license if this is how it worked every

time we might have a homerun so this is gentleman looked terrible well still in the sub massive category but breathing at 35 times a minute hypoxic had his main PA systolic pressure of 60

millimeters of mercury you look over here and there's this large clot in the right upper lobe go to the left side and then there's all this clot in the left lower lobe as well so what do we do we put in bilateral infusion catheters this

can be an E Coast catheter it can be a standard catheter these areyou nafeez catheters have side holes starting from here and ending it's hard to see but there's another radiopaque marker somewhere down there on this side there

and somewhere over there and between those markers you have multiple side holes and those are put up inside the clot so you're dripping TPA at a rate of about 0.5 to 1 milligram per hour and you're getting it directly into the

clock that's the theory and so after 20 to 24 hours of that you know you're given 20 to 24 milligram of TPA that's compared to 50 or a hundred that you get was sitting with systemic thrombolysis you get something

that looks like this where the pulmonary arteries look pristine the PA still the systolic pressures come down the patient feels great now the skeptic would look at this and say well if you just tried some heparin and you just infuse saline

would you have the same result and frankly if you were to conduct the experiment you might find something interesting or not interesting but we never have conducted that experiment but you know I'll tell you a little bit

about the ultimate trial if I have time I don't want to go to overtime though

my talk is titled extremely obvious IR and I think as we move through these slides you guys are going to be able to pick up really quickly on why I elected for that title so this is a patient this is a 67 year old male he had an Evo repair in 2014 in 2015 he

underwent two repairs for persistent type 2 endo leak and this was done via transsexual approach in 2018 we got a CTA that demonstrated an enlarging aneurysm sac so here's just some key critical images from the CT I had the CT

and its entirety today but I had to like panic dump a lot of slides off of my powerpoint I'm always the girl at the airport that you see transferring things from one suitcase to the other like right when it's about to get onto the

airplane so what do we notice about where we see the contrast in these in these images so is it anterior is it posterior anyone its anterior so what if I told you that we see contrast in the anterior sac but this patient has an

included ima where is it coming from so we get the CTA we see any large aneurysm sac we see it an endo leak we bring them into clinic we go through the routine things the patient denies abdominal pain they deny back pain and so we go ahead

and all of our infinite wisdom and we schedule them for a trans cable approach to repair what we call a type 2 and delete now one of the most the most important key sentences from the workup is we say this is likely a type 2 in the

leak but a feeding vessel is not identified okay so our usual algorithm at UVA if we get a patient we do a CTA we bring we see any sort of endo leak if we cannot identify a feeding vessel usually what we do and you can let me

know if this is the same at your practice or if it's different we'll bring them in and we'll do some dynamic imaging from an arterial approach and we'll try to see you know is it really type 2 can we identify a feeding vessel

and oftentimes what happens in those situations is you you identify oh it is a type 2 we just see where it was from and we're gonna have to bring them back and we're gonna have to put them prone and we're gonna

have to stick the stack directly so we thought we were gonna outsmart it this time like we we were gonna just identify that it was typed to you right from the get-go do I have the play button or do you have the play button awesome all

right so this is our trans cable access so what we're doing these days to do our trans cable access and our fenestrations is we're actually using a t lab kit so we're using the transjugular liver biopsy sheath and we're putting our

65-centimetre cheap a needle through that so everything's going great so far we see our sheath in access goes smoothly I might have gone for two slides can you hit the I'm not sure yeah go ahead and hit that nope go ahead and

go one for slide and then just play that video for me yes please awesome so this happens pretty quickly can you play that video again and just keep playing it through on a loop and so we do an injection from our microcatheter from

our trans cable approach and what do you guys noticing where are you noticing the contrast tracking yeah in the red circle [Music] it is now right so everybody at UVA is is a proficient Monday Morning

Quarterback let me tell you so we see the contrast tracking down outside of the iliac limb so now we're all going okay can you go ahead all right go ahead and play this video all right so we get access into the femoral artery

just to make sure because at this point we're hoping against hope we haven't put this on the patient we haven't put this patient on the table MANET made a trans cable puncture only to identify that this patient does in fact have a type 1

B in delete but our arterial access proved that is exactly what we did the junction of the yes we did we did a trans cable puncture to identify that it was a junction leak so that's a problem right because we have

this action going on right so we have a trans cable puncture as dr. Haskell just adapt ly summarized we have a trans cable puncture we've done nothing so far but identify that this patient has the type 2 in a week so it is a micro

catheter right it's just it's just a party foul and then it was the fellow's dream because you pull out and there's nothing to hold pressure on there's nobody's dream at that point so I want to stop here and I want to just take a

moment you guys can live my psych at night so do you ever your so my normal algorithm for my patient since I come in in the morning I look at the patient's chart I review their prior imaging and I try to

do all of these things before looking at my attendings plan because one of the things that I realized is that challenges me to try to figure out what's my plan for the patient what do I think the most appropriate inventory

would be and every once in a while you see something in the plan that doesn't quite jive and you're like there's this is likely a type 2 in the league although a feeding vessel is not identified so I have two options at this

point I either walk down to the reading room and I say hey someone tell me what's going on we don't identify that type - is it worth doing a diagnostic imaging or anyway I just roll with it and this

was a day where I elected to roll with it and so I just want to take a moment and reiterate it's always important for all of us to you know you have a voice and use it and you want to bring up these

things that's sometimes we all start going through the motions where you work with someone that you trust a lot it's really easy to say like Oh someone's smarter than me caught that right so going back it's like it's like that

terrible joke what is the radiologists favorite plant the hedge mmm that's what that is it's like well it could be but it might be and ray'll right you go ahead and play this so this is just our walk of shame as

we're casually embolizing our track out of our trans cable approach and here we are back in clinic so again this is a 67 year old manual with recent angiogram that demonstrates significant type 1b endo leak and we plan for an extension

of the left aortic lab so we bring the patient back we do a standard comment from our artery approach we get into the internal iliac we identify the iliolumbar all kit all standard things we drop an amp at Sur plug to prevent

any sort of further type to end a leak into the limb that we go ahead and extend we put in the iliac limb we balloon it open we'll go ahead and play this video and our follow-up angiogram reveals a resolved type to end a week so

ultimately we did it so what are

let me show you a case of massive PE

this launched our pert pert PE response team 30 year-old man transcranial resection of a pituitary tumor post-op seizures intracranial frontal lobe hemorrhage okay so after his brain surgery developed a frontal lobe

hemorrhage and of course few days after that developed hypotension and hypoxia and was found to have a PE and this is what the PE look like so I'll go back to this one that's clot in the IVC right there and

that's clot in the right main pulmonary artery on this side clot in the IVC clot in the right main pulmonary artery systolic blood pressure was around 90 millimeters of mercury for about an hour he was getting more altered tachycardic

he was in the 120s at this point we realized he was not going the right direction for some reason the surgeon didn't want to touch him still to this day not sure why but that was the case he was brought to the ir suite and I had

a great Mickey attending who came with him and decided to start him on pressors and basically treat him like an ICU patient while I was trying to get rid of his thrombus so it came from the neck because I was conscious of this clot in

the IVC and I didn't want to dislodge it as I took my catheters past it and you see the Selective pulmonary and on selective pulmonary angiogram here and there's some profusion to the left lung and basically none to the right lung

take a sheath out to the right side and do an injection that you see all this cast of thrombus you really see no pulmonary perfusion here you can understand why at this point this man is not doing well what I did at this point

was give a little bit of TPA took a pigtail started trying to spin it through aspirated a little bit wasn't getting anywhere he was actually getting worse I was starting to feel very very nervous I had remembered for my AV

fistula work that there was this thing called the cleaner I don't have any stake in the company but I said you know I don't have a lot to lose here and I thought maybe this would be better than me trying to spin a pigtail through

the clock so the important thing about the cleaners it does not go over a wire so you have to take the sheet out then take out the wire then put the cleaner through that sheath and withdraw the sheath

you can't bareback it especially in the pulmonary circulation the case reports are poking through the pulmonary artery and causing massive hemorrhage and the pulmonary artery does not have an adventitia which is the outer layer just

a little bit thinner than your average artery okay so activated it deployed it and you started to get better and this is what it looked like at the end now this bonus question does somebody see anything on this this picture here that

made me very happy on this side this picture here that made me feel like hey we're getting somewhere I'm sorry the aorta the aorta you start to see the aorta exactly and that that was something I was not seen before the

point being that even though this doesn't look that good in terms of your final image the fact that you see filling in the aorta and mine it might have been some of the stuff I had done earlier I can't I can't pinpoint which

of the interventions actually worked but that's what I'm looking for I'm looking for aortic blood flow because now I've got a hole in that in that clot that's getting blood flow to the left ventricle which starts to reverse that RV

dysfunction that we were concerned about make sure I'm okay with time so we'll

patient like this you have a very large left lateral HCC that's invading the left the patek vein and extending into the heart since when we get into things like radioembolisation if you have

multifocal liver disease if you want to apply radiation therapy to that's very difficult to do that because it actually requires more radiation dose to kill HCC than it does the adjacent normal liver the liver is actually that ready

sensitive so you can do things like SBRT and pick an individual lesion you can do things like a imrt which is you know survey 8 non focus generalize low dose but what's interesting Malaysian is that if you administer

particles they only shoot about two millimeters worth of the raishin field around it so of what used is that with one not much but if you put eight to forty million of them within the bloodstream they Auto sort themselves

based off of the vascular flow preferential that exists with tumors tumors actually emit hormones pull in blood supply that you weren't born with and that actually tends to pull beads from the bloodstream preferentially

towards it so this is an example where you stain a tumor with two types of wax one the portal that's blue one the artery that's red and you can see how much that preferential exists so what ends up happening is these spheres

cluster within the tumor and then provide local dose radiation that's very hot where the tumor is and low elsewhere so here's an example of that this is a patient with metastatic neuroendocrine disease multifocal liver lesions you can

see that vascular flow preferential this is what it looks like on the maa when we jecht a protein particle surrogate that has a technician I should have assigned to it just as a visualization of how the particle is

going to sort out and the post y9t bremsstrahlung CT is over there and you can see how intense the necrosis is within the tumor and how much it's spared the normal liver however you do get some radiation damage they don't

live a regardless that's why choosing the timing of when you're gonna do this is important this is a patient that was treated with tastes above and one session of y9u beneath so you can see that they do have different types of

therapeutic mechanisms they're not the same even though they look very similar in terms of when we're administering

so my name is Paul I'm one of the nurse practitioners from UCI Irvine healthcare and what am i one of our minerals in there is basically working on patients for consultations doing the patient rounds writing notes ordering labs etc we also have several clinics that we run

at UCI Medical Center involving patients needing consultations for Libra direct therapies ablations and so forth and one of the more recent clinic that we started running is basically treating patients with BPH and so what we would

know inspiration is basically treating and regarding their symptoms and the procedures pretty much called a prostate artery embolization so the main purpose of this patient excuse me the main purpose of this

topics is basically to provide the general information of what the procedures are about illustrating indications risk and to hopefully help our nursing staff to better take care of these patients sorry so first and

foremost I just wanted to thank my team UC Irvine for allowing me to take some time off of work and enjoying Austin and its many food and object and and allowing me to speak to you guys a little bit about prostate ammo on our

pitchers basically you can't I don't know laser printer but our physicians dr. Karen Nelson she's one of our chief of IR dr. Dan through Fernando dr. Nadine a bitch day and dr. James Castro thesis

he's got daughter Kat Reese is our main doctor that does most of our process embolization our excellent iron nursing team and of course my fellow nurse practitioners who is holding the fort back home Pamela and Takara and watch

and Lou sorry but so our objectives for discussions basically to illustrate the indications and benefits of prostate artery embolization we're going to go over the side effects and risk complications associated with this

procedure and also recognize the value of nursing care going starting from the workup leading to the proper process in trot process and post procedure care sort of a brief outline of what we're gonna be

talking about we're just gonna go over the basic fundamentals of BPH as well as the treatment for PAE and the second portion of this lecture is going over how we walk patients up in clinic what we tell patients and we're gonna go

through the proper care and drop care ask well ask the post-op care and we're going to go through a couple of cases in there it's just to describe to you guys how we care for these special population

interrupting something else getting back

to a paddock with angiography something that we're starting to look at the group at University of Pennsylvania has a publication out on this as well I looked at the liver lymphatics certainly the livers where we produce a

lot of protein it goes through the lymphatics to be returned to the circulation in patients who have heart failure they tend to have increased lymphatic flow in the liver and they think that protein lost in enteropathy

protein losing a property happens when the liver lymphatic leaks into the intestines just some images from their article you see them looking at the hepatic lymphatics there and once they had a needle in the hepatic lymphatics

they actually put her scope in and they injected blue dye and as a proof-of-concept they saw the blue dye leaking into the intestine so now that they see that the blue dye leaking the intestine they say well we can embolize

that they embolize it with some glue and that's what it looked like at the end and then the algorithm levels and all these patients return to near normal so a new a new frontier and lymphatic intervention so just to summarize

lymphatic imaging the current status you know we have very effective non-invasive as well as in vases imaging in the peripheral and central lymphatics we certainly need to this allows for improved diagnosis and once we have

these diagnostic capabilities we were able to come up with these novel treatments for these diseases that were previously untreatable we still don't have good ways to consistently visualize the paddocks invasively and then and

non-invasively it would be great to be able to see that hepatic and intestine lymphatics cuz that's 80% of lymphatic flow so if we can find a way to image these under mr it could be a game-changer for a lot of diseases in

terms of lymphatic interventions Calla thorax interventions greater than 90% effective technical knowledge you know when I was a trainee was really centered to just a few major medical centers now it's defusing out to more places we've

certainly shown as a proof of concept the plastic bronchitis lymphatic flow disorders cattle societies and protein losing enteropathy are all treatable and we're getting emerging experience so don't be surprised if you start to see

more requests for this more patients at your centers these are uncommon disorders that's not to say that you still won't see them every once in a while the role of lymphatics in pathophysiology is still being studied

particularly in terms of heart failure transplant as well as in different cancers in the spread one of the cool stuff that we're looking at right now is actually sampling different lymphatic fluid in different areas of the body

trying to see how the different cancers may spread and/or possibilities in immunology immuno oncology thank you guys and just something I noticed a couple weeks ago in jeopardy clear body lymph continuing white blood cells body

fluid and you guys know what is limp that's your answer so thank you saying thank you to the avir committee and it's been a pleasure [Applause]

I like to talk about brain infarc after Castro its of its year very symbolic a shoe and my name is first name is a shorter and probably you cannot remember my first name but probably you can remember my email address and join ovation very easy 40 years old man presenting with hematemesis and those coffee shows is aphasia verax and gastric barracks and how can i use arrow arrow on the monitor no point around yes so so you can see the red that red that just a beside the endoscopy image recent bleeding at the gastric barracks

so the breathing focus is gastric paddocks and that is a page you're very X and it is can shows it's a page of Eric's gastric barracks and chronic poor vein thrombosis with heaviness transformation of poor vein there is a spline or inertia but there is no gas drawer in urgent I'm sorry tough fast fast playing anyway bleeding focus is gastric barracks but in our hospital we don't have expert endoscopist

for endoscopy crew injections or endoscopic reinjection is not an option in our Hospital and I thought tips may be very very difficult because of chronic Peruvian thrombosis professors carucha tri-tips in this patient oh he is very busy and there is a no gas Torino Shanta so PRT o is not an option so we decided to do percutaneous there is your embolization under under I mean there are many ways to approach it

but under urgent settings you do what you can do best quickly oh no that's right yes and and this patience main program is not patent cameras transformation so percutaneous transit party approach may have some problem and we also do transit planning approach and this kind of patient has a splenomegaly and splenic pain is big enough to be punctured by ultrasonography and i'm a tips beginner so I don't like tips in this difficult

case so transplanting punch was performed by ultrasound guidance and you can see Carolus transformation of main pervane and splenorenal shunt and gastric varices left gastric we know officios Castries bezier varices micro catheter was advanced and in geography was performed you can see a Terrell ID the vascular structure so we commonly use glue from be brown company and amputee cyanoacrylate MBC is mixed with Italy

powder at a time I mixed 1 to 8 ratio so it's a very thin very thin below 11% igloo so after injection of a 1cc of glue mixture you can see some glue in the barracks but some glue in the promontory Audrey from Maneri embolism and angiography shows already draw barracks and you can also see a subtraction artifact white why did you want to be that distal

why did you go all the way up to do the glue instead of starting lower i usually in in these procedures i want to advance the microcatheter into the paddocks itself and there are multiple collateral channels so if i in inject glue at the proximal portion some channels can be occluded about some channels can be patent so complete embolization of verax cannot be achieved and so there are multiple paths first structures so multiple injection of glue is needed

anyway at this image you can see rigid your barracks and subtraction artifacting in the promenade already and probably renal artery or pyramid entry already so it means from one area but it demands is to Mogambo region patient began to complain of headache but american ir most american IRS care the patient but Korean IR care the procedure serve so we continue we kept the procedure what's a little headache right to keep you from completing your

procedure and I performed Lippitt eight below embolization again and again so I used 3 micro catheters final angel officio is a complete embolization of case repair ax patients kept complaining of headache so after the procedure we sent at a patient to the city room and CT scan shows multiple tiny high attenuated and others in the brain those are not calcification rapado so it means systemic um embolization Oh bleep I adore mixtures

of primitive brain in park and patient just started to complain of blindness one day after diffusion-weighted images shows multiple car brain in park so how come this happen unfortunately I didn't know that Porter from Manila penis anastomosis at the time one article said gastric barracks is a connectivity read from an airy being by a bronchial venous system and it's prevalence is up to 30 percent so normally blood flow blood in the barracks drains into the edge a

ghost vein or other systemic collateral veins and then drain into SVC right heart and promontory artery so from what embolism may have fun and but in most cases in there it seldom cause significant cranker problem but in this case barracks is a connectivity the promontory being fired a bronchial vein and then glue mixture can drain into the rapture heart so glue training to aorta and system already causing brain in fog or systemic embolism so let respectively

technically step by step of how tips are done okay and and the ideal tips with

every step of this procedure I'm gonna show you two ways of doing it okay and the advantages and disadvantages of the two ways in every step okay so first of all the primary thing is to get into the portal vein and how do you visualize the

portal vein okay so one way is to do co2 Vinogradova nog Rafi to hit the portal vein me with experience no I don't need co2 venography to hit the portal vein but I still do it in an in a teaching institution because I have texture that

are learning nurses they're learning and physicians are learning so I actually do the imaging for them so they actually can get the general idea of what we're doing this is our target this is where we're coming off and that's it but in an

experience hands is it necessary absolutely not okay so co2 photography very helpful for in teaching and teaching institutions so everybody and the whole team can actually know exactly what our target is so not essential like

like we discuss and there are two methods of doing this and in a funny way I'm gonna show you that's actually the same method but one is a micro of the other one okay so two ways one way is then wedge a catheter that's the old way

kind of more traditional way than let's not call it always more traditional way of doing a co2 port and the other one is using a balloon of balloon occlusion castra and this is wedging it with a four French five French catheter you

take it all the way to where the catheter is larger than the hepatic vein and now you've wedged it okay and this is kind of a mag up you see that that's a little that's a little wedge okay you wedge you inject contrast the contrast

just sits there it's wedged it's trapped okay and then this is with a balloon to your left is a balloon full of air to the right full of contrast and you basically trapped it again you fill contrast and consciousness it's there

what's the difference between this image and this image no difference the only difference is size that's all it's the same idea you're just trapping a segment of the liver the difference is this is a very

small segment and this is a larger segment okay so essentially it's actually the same technique one is just well technically when it comes to your side all one needs a four or five French calf the other one needs a balloon

occlusion caster okay same image so then you inject co2 the key thing here if you're the type of physician where you put contrasts you have a balloon sitting or a wedge and you have to count contrast there okay

rookie mistake is that they leave the contrast and then they hit the co2 okay what is that you've lost the advantage of the co2 in the beginning of your bolus is actually contrast okay so you need to bleed out the contrast and

replace it completely co2 so your entire bolus okay is co2 and not and not and not the and not the contrast okay that defeats the purpose why is co2 advantageous over contrast contrast is a thick fluid co2 is gas is viscous it's

volatile it actually can squeeze through tight spaces as it's a gas and that's what we want we want to squeeze that co2 which is a contrast through the sinusoids reflux it back into the portal circulation so we're trapping it and

we're trying to push co2 squeezing it through the sinusoids refluxing it back into the portal circulation so you can actually visualize the portal circulation okay and all and the disadvantage of a wedge is what you see

here if you're a wedge and you're immediately sub capsular and you slam you slam that co2 aggressively what you will get is an explosion you get a rip of those of the hepatic capsule scroll the glisten capsule and then you've got

a leak and if the patient is quite low is a quite low path they can actually die from this believe it or not they will die from this and not die from the needle passes okay so that's kind of co2 and that's kind of

a little a little passive air into the perineum nice imaging not a good outcome so one way to avoid this is to still wedge but wedge away from the hepatic capsule so you're out in the periphery in the paddock veins but you're deep

inside the liver you're not you're not right underneath the capsule so that's one way of doing it the other another way is to actually use a balloon okay so this is this is just another wedge here okay and you actually use a balloon I'm

just showing you a correlation with a balloon it's a little safer because you're a little distance away from from the hepatic capsule I'm just showing you a more and more image of the same thing co2 with correlation after you access

since it's a beautiful correlation with with the portal vein venogram okay there are problems with wedges and with balloons is that sometimes you get a gas you know a co2 leak you're wedged but there's hepatic veins at vadik vein

connections and all you see is a fatty veins you can't force reflux the co2 into the portal circulation so that's one problem okay so what do you do with that you change the sights just change a different different branch okay try to

avoid that connection between the badeck veins and it back veins go somewhere else where there is no connection where you can actually make a true hip wedge and force that co2 into the portal circulation okay another way this is

just a draw a drawing out whether it alone or a catheter you get that you get the escape from the Patek vein to fatty vein is to go distal go beyond that connection so if you can go distal go distal if you can't go distal then

change your branch try to find a place where there is no hepatic vein tip a degree engine attraction preferably but not necessarily not the same branches connected to because that usually goes both ways but not always sometimes

you're lucky and if that connection is kind of like a one-way valve one way street and it's not a two-way street but that's just sheer luck okay this is an example hepatic vein to about a vein connection and what we did was basically

switch to another place another vein and we actually get the portal venogram here okay next up sting crafts Viator's thank

the traditional three pillars are

surgical medical and rad honk which actually was once part of radiology and separated just like interventional radiology has and where is the role for this last column so many patients are not medically operable so if you set the

gold standard you know that the cure for someone has a primary liver mass well about 20 percent of patients who present can undergo resection what you do for the remaining portion so Salvage is what we offer when someone has undergone

standard of care and it didn't work how do we hop back in and try to see how much these folks it's low-risk it's not very expensive at all as compared to things like surgery and the recovery is usually the same date so

this concept here of tests of time is kind of interesting a lot of times when we look at a tumor let's say it's 2 centimeters it's not really the size of the tumor but it's how nasty of a player it is and it's

difficult to find out sometimes so what we do is we'll treat it using an IR technique and watch the patient and if they do well then we can subject them then to the more aggressive therapy and it's more worthwhile because we've found

that that person is going to be someone who's likely going to benefit you can use this in conjunction with other treatments and repeat therapy is well tolerated and finally obviously palliation is very important as we try

to focus on folks quality of life and again this can be done in the outpatient setting so here's a busy slide but if you just look at all the non-surgical options that you have here for liver dominant primary metastatic liver

disease everything that's highlighted in blue is considered an interventional oncology technique this is these the main document that a lot of international centers use to allocate people to treatments when they have

primary liver cancer HCC and if you see if you see at the very bottom corner there in very early-stage HCC actually ablation is a first-line therapy and they made this switch in 2016 but it's the first time that an

intervention illogic therapy was actually recommended in lieu of something like surgery why because it's lesions are very small its tolerated very well and it's the exact same reason why your dermatologists can freeze a

lesion as opposed to having to cut everything off all the time at a certain point certain tumors respond well and it's worth the decrease in morbidity so

and then getting back to really where the rubber hits the road you know we can do all of these fancy techniques why

does it matter well Constantin cope one of the fathers of IR is certainly the pioneer of lymphatic interventions and over subsequent five publications in the mid 90s really showed the the technical

build as well as the feasibility of imaging lymphatics putting a needle into them and then starting to be able to embolize them and functionally curing patients who had Kyle authorities and a potential morbidity or mortality of over

50% and how did he do it well as he did his lymph angiogram and it got up to the retroperitoneum and the structure started dilating into some of the central structures such as the cisterna chyli he would take that 21 gauge needle

and go after that structure put a needle into him pass a wire that wire would pass into the central lymphatic circulation and then he'd be able to put in a micro catheter Neff set machan visa or whatever inner inner

components and then do central and faint geography as well as potential and fame gia embolization so that would be the general antegrade trains abdominal access this was a traditional access that was done for over a decade more

recently a lot of authors have started focusing on doing retrograde trans venous access which you do basically a PICC line axis on the left arm and you take a sauce catheter to where the thoracic duct dumps into the veins and

you catheterize it backwards and just kind of showing you and get your sheath down or you can put a wire from below and then snare and come across it so that's a retrograde transvenous and finally the direct train cervical access

and some patients who you never see another target you can potentially access this under ultrasound or if you have fluoroscopy and some contrast in there in this case we put our wire retrograde and were able

to complete the case and you see of the lymphatic fluid leaking out in this case as well so those are your three main ways to access the central lymphatics

know we're running a bit short on time so I want to briefly just touch about

some techniques with comb beam CT which are very helpful to us there are a lot of reasons why you should use comb beam CT it gives us the the most extensive anatomic understanding of vascular territories and the implications for

that with oncology are extremely valuable because of things like margin like we discussed here's an example of a patient who had a high AF P and their bloodstream which tells us that they have a cancer in her liver we can't see

it on the CT there but if you do a cone beam CT it stands up quite nicely why because you're giving levels of contrast that if you were to give them through a peripheral IV it would be toxic to the patient but when you're infusing into a

segment the body tolerates at the problem so patient preparation anxa lysis is key you have them exhale above three seconds prior to that there's a lot of change to how we're doing this people who are introducing radial access

power injection anywhere from about 50 to even sometimes thirty to a hundred percent contrast depends on what phase you're imaging we have a Animoto power injector that allows us to slide what contrast concentration we like a lot of

times people just rely on 30% and do their whole the case with that some people do a hundred percent image quality this is what it looks like when someone's breathing this is very difficult to tell if there's complete

lesion enhancement so if you do your comb beam CT know it looks like this this is trying to coach the patient and try to get them to hold still and then this is the patient after coaching which looks like this so you can tell that you

have a missing portion of the lesion and you have to treat into another segment what about when you're doing an angio and you do a cone beam CT NIT looks like this this is what insufficient counts looks like on comb beam so when you see

these sort of Shell station lines that are going all over the screen you have to raise dose usually in larger patients but this is you know you either slow down the acquisition speed of your comb beam or

you raise dose this is what it looks like after we gave it a higher dose protocol it really changes everything those lines are still there but they're much smaller how do you know if you have enhancement or a narrow artifact you can

repeat with non-contrast CT and give the patient glucagon and you can find the small very these small arteries that pick off the left that commonly profuse the stomach the right gastric artery you can use your comb beam CT to find

non-target evaluation even when your angio doesn't suggest it so this is a patient they have recurrent HCC we didn't angio from here those arteries down there where those coils were looked funny even though the patient was

quote-unquote coiled off we did a comb beam CT and that little squiggly C shape structures that duodenum that's contrast going in it this would be probably a lethal event for the patient or certainly would require surgery if you

treated that much with y9t reposition the catheter deeper towards the lesion and you can repeat your comb beam CT and see that you don't have an hands minh sometimes you have these little accessory left gastric artery this is

where we really need your help you know a lot of times everyone's focused and I think the more eyes the better for these kind of things but we're looking for these little tiny vessels that sometimes hop out of the liver and back into the

stomach or up into the esophagus there's a very very small right gastric artery in this picture here this patient post hepatectomy that rides along the inferior surface of the liver it's a little curly cube so and this is a small

esophageal branch so when you do comb beam TT this is what the stomach looks like when it enhances and this is what the esophagus looks like when it enhances you can do non contrast comb beam CTS to confirm ablation so you have

a lesion this is the comb beam CT for enhancement you treat with your embolic and this is a post to determine that you've had completely shin coverage and you can see how that correlates a response so the last thing we're going

kind of the embolic protection because I think with carotid artery stenting the stents there's a lot of different types they're all self expanding for the most

part and there's not a lot to talk about there but there is with regards to embolic protection and there so there's distal and violent protection where you have this where that blue little sheath in the common carotid artery you got a

wire through the ica stenosis and a little basket or filter distally before you put the stent in early on they used to think oh maybe we'll do distal balloon occlusion put a balloon up distally do your intervention aspirate

whatever collects behind the balloon and then take the balloon down not so ideal because you never really asked for it a hundred percent of the debris and then whatever whenever you deflate the balloon it goes back it goes up to the

brain you still have some embolic phenomenon in the cerebral vascular churn and then there's this newer concept of proximal protection where you use either flow reversal reverse the blood flow in the cerebral circulation

or you actually cause a stagnant column of blood in the ica so you can't get you don't get anything that embolize is up distally but you have this stagnant column the debris collects there you aspirate that actively before you take

down the balloons that are in position in the X carotids and common carotid artery and then you take everything out so let's walk through each of these if you really wanted to pick out the perfect embolic

protection device it's got to be relatively easy to use it's got to be stable in position so it's not moving up and down and causing injury to the vessel but even while it's in place cerebral perfusion is maintained so that

balloon the distal balloon not a great idea because you're cutting off all the blood flow to the brain you might stop something from embolizing up distally but in the process of doing that you may patient may not tolerate that you want

complete protection during all aspects of the procedure so when we place a filter as you'll see just crossing the lesion with the initial filter can cause a distal embolus so that's a problem you want to be able to use your guide wire

choice as many of you know when we go through peripheral vasculature there's your go-to wires but it doesn't always work every time with that one go-to wire so you want to be able to pick the wire that you want to use or

change it up if needed for different lesions so if you get to use your wire of choice then then that's gonna be a better system than something that's man deter and then if you have a hard time using that wire to get across the lesion

you have a problem overall and then ultimately where do you land that protection device and a few diagrams here to help illustrate this generally speaking these distal embolic protection these filters that go beyond

the lesion have been used for quite a while and are relatively safe you can see them pretty easily and geographically they have little markers on them that signify if they're open or closed and we look for that overall and

blood flows through them it's just a little sieve a little basket that collects really tiny particles micrometers in size but allows blood flow to pass through it so you're not actually causing any cessation of blood

flow to the brain but you are protecting yourself from that embolic debris and it's generally well tolerated overall we had really good results in fact when not using this device there's a lot of strokes that were occurring in use of

this device dramatic reduction so a significant improvement in this procedural area by utilization of embolic protection however distal embolic protection or filter devices are not a perfect APD as you as you may know

those of you have been involved in carotid stenting there is no cerebral protection when you cross the lesion if you have a curlicue internal carotid artery this filter doesn't sit right and and ultimately may not cause

good protection or actually capture everything that breaks off the plaque and it can be difficult to deliver in those really tortuous internal carotid arteries so ultimately you can cross the lesion but you may not get this filter

up if you don't get the filter up you can't put the stent then ultimately you're out of luck so you gotta have a different option filters may not provide complete cerebral protection if they're not fully opposed and again it does

allow passage of really tiny particles right so your blood cells have to be able to pass but even though it's less than about a hundred microns may be significant enough to cause a significant stroke if it goes to the

right basket of territory so it's not perfect protection and then if you have so much debris you can actually overload the filter fill it up in tile and entirely and then you have a point where when you capture the filter there's some

residual debris that's never fully captured either so these are concerns and then ultimately with that filter in place you can cause a vessel dissection when you try to remove it or if it's bouncing up and down without good

stability you can cause spasm to the vessel as well and so these are the things that we look for frequently because we want to make sure that ultimately if we just sent the lesion but we don't believe the vessel distal

to it intact and we're going to have a problem so here's some kind of illustrated diagrams for this here's a sheath in the common carotid artery you see your plaque lesion in the internal carotid artery and you're trying to

cross this with that filter device that's what's the picture on the right but as you're crossing that lesion you're you're liberating a little plaque or debris which you see here and during that period of time until the filters in

place you're not protected so all that debris is going up to the brain so there's that first part of the procedure where you're not protected that's one of the pitfalls or concerns particularly with very stenotic lesions or friable

lesions like this where you're not protected until that filters in place that first step you never are protected in placement of a filter here's an example where you have a torturous internal carotid artery so you see this

real kink these are kinds of carotid internal carotid arteries that we can see and if you place that filter in that bend that you can see right at the bend there the bottom part the undersurface of the carotid doesn't have good wall

my position of the filter so debris can can slip past the filter on the under under surface of this which is a real phenomenon and you can see that you can say well what if we oversize the filter if you oversize the filter then it then

it just oval eyes Azure or it crimps and in folds on itself so you really have to size this to the specific vessel that you plan to target it in but just the the physics of this it's it's a tube think about a balloon a balloon doesn't

conform to this it tries to straighten everything out this isn't going to straighten the vessel out so it doesn't fully conform on the full end of the filter and you have incomplete a position and therefore

incomplete filtration so this is another failure mode I mentioned before what if it gets overloaded so here's a diagram where you have all this debris coming up it's filling up the really tiny tiny particles go past it because this little

micro sieve allows really small particles to go distal but approximately it's overloaded so now you get all this debris in there you place your stent you take your retrieval filter or catheter to take this filter out and all that

stuff that's sitting between the overloaded filter and your stent then gets liberated and goes up to the brain so you got to worry about that as well I mentioned this scenario that it builds up so much so that you can't get all the

debris out and ultimately you lose some and then when the filter is full and debris particles that are suspended near the stent or if you put that filter too close to the edge of the stent you run into problems where it may catch the

stent overall and you have all of this debris and it looks small and you don't really see it and geographically obviously but ultimately is when you do a stroke assessment and it's not always devastating strokes but mild symptoms

where he had a stroke neurologist and the crest trial or most of the more recent clinical trials we actually evaluate a patient and notice that they had small maybe sub sub clinical or mild strokes that were noted they weren't

perhaps devastating strokes but they had things that caused some degree of disability so not insignificant here's a case example of a carotid stent that was done this is a case out of Arizona proximal carotid

stenosis stent placed but then distal thrombus that developed in this case and had post rhombus removal after the epd was removed so there's thrombus overloaded the the filter you can see the filter at the very top of the center

image you can see the sort of the shadow of the embolic protection device there distally aspirated that took the filter out and then ultimately removed but you can imagine that amount of thrombus up in the brain would have been a

devastating stroke and this is what the filter looks like in real life so this is what the debris may look like so it's not this is not overloaded but that's significant debris and you can see the little film or sieve that's on the

distal part of this basket and that's what captures the debris any of that in the brain is gonna leave this patient with a residual stroke despite a successful stenting procedure so this is what we're trying to avoid so in spite

treatment options once you've sort of isolated that there are leaky valves and the patient has typical symptoms that there are some surgical options but really embolization and catheter

directed treatment are really the mainstays of treatment both because it's an outpatient procedure you get to go home the same day and the recoveries fairly easy the factors that we consider when you embolize or block these

varicose veins are listed here you want to you want desired duration you want it to be closed forever you can't replace valves it would be nice to be able to do that but there's not a valve replacement so much like in the leg when you're

treating varicose veins you're either blocking or taking veins out so the surgical options are to take the vein out or to ligate but and the vascular options would be to block it and so I would just thought I would cover just a

little bit of embolization materials I'm sure you're all very familiar with and as I'll mention a little bit later there's there's sort of not necessarily agreement on what type of things people use to embolize gonadal veins or pelvic

varicosities but i'll show you what i do but give you a background of just generalized embolization materials so I'm sure you've all seen gel foam supplied as a sheet you can make a slurry you soak it with contraire

so that you can see it as you're putting it in some people use glue and will glue the entire gonadal vein it solidifies when it's mixed with saline or blood usually mix it with acai it also you can see it as

you're injecting it and then the standard coils which there are multiple sizes shapes detachable non-detachable Amplatz or plugs all the mechanical devices that can be used to block blood vessels and then I put on Souter deck

all because there are some people that will sort of do the sandwich technique you may have heard we'd put a coil peripherally and a coil up by the renal vein and then in between the coils you can film a sclerosant and embolize that

way the other important factor for me is using the suture deck all on the actual varicosities I'm not just necessarily treating or blocking off the the blood supply to them you know and I'll mention that a little bit more during the case

here so go through a case patient with

now other causes this is a little bit different different scenario here but it's not always just as simple as all

there's leaky valves in the gonadal vein that are causing these symptoms this is 38 year old Lafleur extremity swelling presented to our vein clinic has evolved our varicosities once you start to discuss other symptoms she does have

pelvic pain happiness so we're concerned about about pelvic congestion and I'll mention here that if I hear someone with exactly the classic symptoms I won't necessarily get a CT scan or an MRI because again that'll give me secondary

evidence and it won't tell me whether the veins are actually incompetent or not and so you know I have a discussion with the patient and if they are deathly afraid of having a procedure and don't want to have a catheter that goes

through the heart to evaluate veins then we get cross-sectional imaging and we'll look for secondary evidence if we have the secondary evidence then sometimes those patients feel more comfortable going through a procedure some patients

on the other hand will say well if it's not really gonna tell me whether the veins incompetent or not why don't we just do the vena Graham and we'll get the the definite answer whether there's incompetence or not and you'll be able

to treat it at the same time so in this case we did get imaging she wanted to take a look and it was you know shame on me because it's it's a good thing we did because this is not the typical case for pelvic venous congestion what we found

is evidence of mather nur and so mather nur is compression of the left common iliac vein by the right common iliac artery and what that can do is cause back up of pressure you'll see her huge verax here and here for you guys

huge verax in that same spot and so this lady has symptoms of pelvic venous congestion but it's not because of valvular incompetence it's because of venous outflow obstruction so Mather 'nor like I mentioned is compression of

that left common iliac vein from the right common iliac artery as shown here and if you remember on the cartoon slide for pelvic congestion I'm showing a dilated gonna delve a non the left here but in this case we have obstruction of

the common iliac vein that's causing back up of pressure the blood wants to sort of decompress itself or flow elsewhere and so it backed up into the internal iliac veins and are causing her symptoms along with her of all of our

varicosities and just a slide describing everything i just said so i don't think we have to reiterate that the treatments could you go back one on that I think I did skip over that treatments from a thern er really are also endovascular

it's really basically treating that that compression portion and decompressing the the pelvic system and so here's our vena Graham you can see that huge verax down at the bottom and an occluded iliac vein so classic Mather nur but causing

that pelvic varicosity and the pelvic congestion see huge pelvic laterals in pelvic varicosities once we were able to catheterize through and stent you see no more varicosity because it doesn't have to flow that way it flows through the

way that that it was intended through the iliac vein once it's open she came back to clinic a week later significant improvement in symptoms did not treat any of the gonadal veins this was just a venous obstruction causing the increased

pressure and symptoms of pelvic vein congestion how good how good are we at

criteria for CTF means that the patient has a mean pulmonary arterial pressure which we measure intraoperatively exceeding 25 millimeters mercury at rest with the mean pulmonary capillary wedge pressure less than 15 so I'm not a

cardiologist but what that means to me is a mean capillary pulmonary wedge pressure less than 15 means that their left heart is not failing so if you have a capillary wedge pressure higher than 15 that means your left heart is not

working correctly and you can't blame it on the CTF so you can't blame it on the right side if the left side isn't working other things that matter are the abnormal pulmonary vascular resistance and having a systolic pulmonary artery

pressure greater than 40 so what I want to show you and highlight is the law the lost art of pulmonary angiography which i think is now sort of again a lost art some places do a lot of it and some places don't do very much but diagnostic

pulmonary angiography is actually the gold standard in the planning of either surgery or medical management for patients with CTF we do we do these on almost all of our patients with CTF to make that decision with the surgeons and

the cardiologists so the utility is very it's very useful you're able to measure our pressure you're able to decide whether we're the where the thrombus exists in this image here in patients with disease in the

blue and yellow outlined areas those are the patients who can have the operation the operation is curative it's not just medication that you have to take for the rest of your life you can actually remove that chronic clot it's much like

a femoral endarterectomy that are done for patients with peripheral arterial disease although it's a lot more complicated because they have to crack your chest open what's important is getting very very

good high-quality pulmonary angiogram xand so we do we used to do about we do about a hundred of these a year where I trained or actually where I work now and you get very magda up views and you're gonna show all of the vessels and so

these are the views that we use at our institution they happen to be the pipette criteria so it's the same thing you used to do for acute PE you put a flush catheter in the main pulmonary arteries when you're looking at the

upper lobes and when you're looking at the lower lobes you want to push the catheter further into the pulmonary arteries and inject usually what I do is a two to three second injection so that you can stack the images very well and

show all of them in one view this allows your surgeon to make a decision easily as to whether they can operate or they can't operate on this and then I use a higher frame rate usually because these patients are wide awake we when we do

this case we give our patients twenty five mics of fentanyl one time and that's it just to help get the sheath in I usually do this with a seven French sheath and then use a flush cap pulmonary artery catheter many of which

are currently off the market but when we do this we just give them that twenty five Mike's because they have to hold their breath and I usually go up to a high frame rate in the first run and then adjust based off of how well that

patient is holding their breath this really takes a team effort from our nursing technologists and the and the physicians in the room to make sure that this patient does a good job because it's gonna change their management so

there are a lot of different types of angiographic findings on one of these pulmonary angiogram they're really really interesting pulmonary angiogram zin these patients and they're sometimes not at all subtle so you're looking for

a pruning of distal vessels if we start in the top left where you're just not seeing the Brent normal branch pattern you look for stenosis so we're not usually used to looking at stenosis and the pulmonary arteries but this is

actually what you're looking for in CTF you're looking for webs or bands so you'll usually see little areas where you just doesn't look like there's great opacification there's little areas that there's not good at pacification those

are little webs inside the vessel believe it or not looks like a cobweb that grew inside there from that thrombus and then you're looking for areas of complete occlusion that there's just no vessels there those are all

vessels that can be treated in patients with CTF so this is the Jameson classification before we talk about the sort of the interventional management the surgical management is again the curative and dr. Jameson is the head

surgeon at University of California in San Diego which is the largest Palm CTF program in the in the world and he's done I think over 3 500 of these operations I think he's retired at this point but they named the classification

after him and so type 1 is proximal disease so it involves the main pulmonary arteries these are the ideal patients who can get the best benefit from this in their life type 2 is the next best

it's segmental proximal just type 3 is distal segmental and then type 4 is just a mess of sort of all of it but you can't really get a good surgical plane so type 1 and 2 are treated with pulmonary thromboembolism

towards balloon pulmonary angioplasty or BPA and type 4 are generally treated with medication so PT II or pulmonary

so just a compliment what we everybody's talked about I think a great introduction for diagnosing PID the imaging techniques to evaluate it some of the Loney I want to talk about some of the above knee interventions no disclosures when it sort of jumped into

a little bit there's a 58 year old male who has a focal non-healing where the right heel now interestingly we when he was referred to me he was referred to for me for a woman that they kept emphasizing at the anterior end going

down the medial aspect of the heel so when I literally looked at that that was really a venous stasis wound so he has a mixed wound and everybody was jumping on that wound but his hour till wound was this this right heel rudra category-five

his risk factors again we talked about diabetes being a large one that in tandem with smoking I think are the biggest risk factors that I see most patient patients with wounds having just as we talked about earlier we I started

with a non-invasive you can see on the left side this is the abnormal side the I'm sorry the right leg is the abnormal the left leg is the normal side so you can see the triphasic waveforms the multiphasic waveforms on the left the

monophasic waveforms immediately at the right I don't typically do a lot of cross-sectional imaging I think a lot of information can be obtained just from the non-invasive just from this the first thing going through my head is he

has some sort of inflow disease with it that's iliac or common I'll typically follow within our child duplex to really localize the disease and carry out my treatment I think a quick comment on a little bit of clinicals so these

waveforms will correlate with your your Honourable pencil Doppler so one thing I always emphasize with our staff is when they do do those audible physical exams don't tell me whether there's simply a Doppler waveform or a Doppler pulse I

don't really care if there's not that means their leg would fall off what I care about is if monophasic was at least multiphasic that actually tells me a lot it tells me a lot afterwards if we gain back that multiphase the city but again

looking at this a couple of things I can tell he has disease high on the right says points we can either go PITA we can go antegrade with no contralateral in this case I'll be since he has hide he's used to the right go contralateral to

the left comment come on over so here's the angio I know NGOs are difficult Aaron when there's no background so just for reference I provided some of the anatomy so this is the right you know groin area

right femur so the right common from artery and SFA you have a downward down to the knee so here's the pop so if we look at this he has Multi multi multiple areas of disease I would say that patients that have above knee disease

that have wounds either have to level disease meaning you have iliac and fem-pop or they at least have to have to heal disease typically one level disease will really be clot against again another emphasis a lot of these patients

since they're not very mobile they're not very ambulatory this these patients often come with first a wound or rest pain so is this is a patient was that example anyway so what we see again is the multifocal occlusions asta knows

he's common femoral origin a common femoral artery sfa origin proximal segment we have a occlusion at the distal sfa so about right here past the air-duct iratus plus another occlusion at the mid pop to talk about just again

the tandem disease baloney he also has a posterior tibial occlusion we talked about the fact that angio some concept so even if I treat all of this above I have to go after that posterior tibial to get to that heel wound and complement

the perineal so ways to reach analyze you know the the biggest obstacle here is on to the the occlusions i want to mention some of the devices out there I'm not trying to get in detail but just to make it reader where you know there's

the baiance catheter from atronics essentially like a little metal drill it wobbles and tries to find the path of least resistance to get through the occlusion the cross or device from bard is a device that is essentially or what

I call is a frakking device they're examples they'll take a little peppermint they'll sort of tap away don't roll the hole peppermint so it's like a fracking device essentially it's a water jet

that's pulse hammering and then but but to be honest I think the most effective method is traditional wire work sorry about that there are multiple you know you're probably aware of just CTO wires multi weighted different gramm wires 12

gram 20 gram 30 gram wires I tend to start low and go high so I'll start with the 12 gram uses supporting micro catheter like a cxi micro catheter a trailblazer and a B cross so to look at here the sheath I've placed a sheet that

goes into the SFA I'm attacking the two occlusions first the what I used is the micro catheter about an 1/8 micro catheter when the supporting my catheters started with a trailblazer down into the crossing the first

occlusion here the first NGO just shows up confirmed that I'm still luminal right I want to state luminal once I've crossed that first I've now gone and attacked the second occlusion across that occlusion so once I've cross that

up confirm that I'm luminal and then the second question is what do you want to do with that there's gonna be a lot of discussions on whether you want Stan's direct me that can be hold hold on debate but I think a couple of things we

can agree we're crossing their courageous we're at the pop if we can minimize standing that region that be beneficial so for after ectomy couple of flavors there's the hawk device which

essentially has a little cutter asymmetrical cutter that allows you to actually shave that plaque and collect that plaque out there's also a horrible out there device that from CSI the dime back it's used to sort of really sort of

like a plaque modifier and softened down that plaque art so in this case I've used this the hawk device the hawk has a little bit of a of a bend in the proximal aspect of the catheter that lets you bias the the device to shape

the plaque so here what I've done you there you can see the the the the the teeth itself so you can tell we're lateral muta Liz or right or left is but it's very hard to see did some what's AP and posterior so usually

what I do is I hop left and right I turned the I about 45 degrees and now to hawk AP posterior I'm again just talking left to right so I can always see where the the the the AP ended so I can always tell without the the teeth

are angioplasty and then here once I'm done Joan nice caliber restored flow restored then we attacked the the common for most enosis and sfa stenosis again having that device be able to to an to direct

that device allows me to avoid sensing at the common femoral the the plaque is resolved from the common femoral I then turn it and then attack the the plaque on the lateral aspect again angioplasty restore flow into the common firm on the

proximal SFA so that was the there's the plaque that you can actually obtain from that Hawk so you're physically removing that that plaque so so that's you know that's the the restoration that flow just just you know I did attack the

posterior tibial I can cross that area I use the diamond back for that balloon did open it up second case is a woman

thank you so much for inviting me and to speak at this session so I'm gonna share with you a save a disaster and a save hopefully my disclosures which aren't related so this is a 59 year old female she's lovely with a history of locally advanced pancreatic cancer back in 2016

and and she presented with biliary and gastric outlet obstructions so she underwent scenting so there was a free communication of the biliary system with the GI system she underwent chemo and radiation and actually did really well

and she presents to her local doctor in 2018 with ascites they tap the ascites that's benign and they'll do a workup and she just also happens to have n stage liver disease and cirrhosis due to alcohol abuse in her life so just very

unlucky very unfortunate and the request comes and it's for a paracentesis which you know pretty you know standard she has refractory ascites and because she has refractory ascites tips and this is a problem because the pointer doesn't

work because a her biliary system is in communication with the GI system right so there's lots of bugs sitting in the bile ducts because of all these stents that have opened up the bile duct to list to the duodenum and so you know

like any good individual I usually ask my colleagues you know there's way more smart people in the world than me and and and so I say well what should I do and and you know there was a very loud voice that said do not do a tips you

know there there's no way you should do a tips in this person maybe just put in a tunnel at drainage catheter and then there was well maybe you should do a tips but if you do a tips don't use a Viator don't use a covered stand use a

wall stunt a non-covered stunt because you could have the bacteria that live in the GI tract get on the the PTFE and and you get tip situs which is a disaster and then there was someone who said well you should do a bowel prep you

like make her life miserable and you know give her lots of antibiotics and then you should do a tips and then it's like well what kind of tips and they're like I don't know maybe you should do a covered said no not a covered tonight

and then they're you know and then there was there was a other voice that said just do a tips you know just do the damn tips and go for it so I did it would you know very nice anatomy tips was placed she did well

the next day she has fevers and and her blood cultures come back positive right and you can see in the circle that there's a little bit of low density around the tips in the liver and so they put her on IV antibiotics and then they

got an ultrasound a week later and the tips that occluded and then they got a CT just to prove that the ultrasound actually worked so this really hurt my gosh to rub it in just to rub it in just just to confirm that your tips occlude

it and so you know I feel not so great about myself and particularly because I work in an institution that defined tip seclusion was one of the first people so gene Laberge is one of my colleagues back in the day demonstrated Y tips

occludes and one of the reasons is because it's in communication with the biliary system so bile is very toxic actually and when it gets into the the lining of the tips it causes a thrombosis and when they would go and

open these up they would see green mile or biome components in the in the thrombus so I felt particularly bad and so and then I went back and I looked and I was like you know what the tips is short but it's not short in the way that

it usually is usually it's short at the top and they people don't extend it to the to the outflow of the hepatic vein here I hadn't extended it fully in and it was probably in communication with a bile duct which was also you know living

with lots of bacteria which is why she got you know bacteremia so just because we want to do more imaging cuz you know god forbid you know you got the ultrasound of her they because she was back to remake and

you know that and potentially subject they got an echo just to make sure that she doesn't have endocarditis and they find out that she has a small p fo so what happens when you have a thrombosed tips you go back in there and you do a

tips or vision you line it with a beautiful new stent that you put in appropriately but would you do that when the patient has a shunt going from one side of the heart to the other so going from the right to the left so sort of

similar to that case right and so what do we do so I you know certainly not the smartest person in the room we've demonstrated that so I go and I asked my colleagues and so the loud voice of saying you know I told you this is why

we don't practice this kind of medicine and then there was someone who said why don't we anticoagulate her and I was like are you kidding me like you know do you think a little lovenox is gonna cure this and then the same person who said

we should do a tunnel dialysis tile the tunnel drainage catheter or like a polar X was like how about a poor X in here like thanks man we're kind of late for that what about thrombolysis and then you

know the most important WWJ be deed you guys are you familiar with that no what would Jim Benenati do that's that's that's the most important thing right so so of course you know I called Miami he's you know in a but in a big case you

know comes and helps me out and and I'm like what do I do and you know he's like just just go for it you know I mean there are thirty percent of the people that we see in the world have a efo it's very small and it probably doesn't do

anything but you know I got to tell you I was really nervous I went and I talked to miner our colleagues I made sure that the best guy who was you know available for stroke would be around in case I were to shower emboli I don't even know

what he would do I mean maybe take her and you know thrombolysis you know her like MCA or something I don't know I just wanted him to be around it just made me feel good and then I talked to another one of my favorite advisors

buland Arslan who who also was at UVA and he said why don't you instead of just going in there and mucking around with this clot especially because you have this shunt why don't you just thrown belay sit and then you

know and then see what happens and so here I brought her down EKOS catheter and I dripped a TPA for 24 hours and you know I made her do this with local I didn't give her any sedation because I wanted and it's not so painful and I

just wanted her to be awake so I could make sure that she isn't you took an intervention location you turned it into internal medicine I I did work you know that's that's you know I care right you know we're clinicians and so she was

fine she was very appreciative I had a penumbra the the the Indigo system around the next day in case I needed to go and do some aspiration thrombectomy and what do you know you know the next day it all opened up and you can still

see that the tips is short the uncovered portion which is which is you know past the ring I'm sorry that which is below the ring into the portal vein is not seated well so that was my error and and there was a little bit of clot there so

what I ended up doing is I ended up balloon dilating it placing another Viator and extending it into the portal vein so it's covered so she did very

next is me talking about Egypt and Ethiopia and how I are how IRS practice in Egypt and Ethiopia and I think feather and Musti is gonna talk a little bit about Ethiopia as well he's got a

lot of experience about in about Ethiopia I chose these two countries to show you the kind of the the the the difference between different countries with within Africa Egypt is the 20th economy worldwide by GDP third largest

economy in Africa by some estimates the largest economy in Africa it's about a hundred million people about a little-little and about thirty percent of the population in the u.s. 15 florist's population worldwide and has

about a little over a hundred ir's right now 15 years ago they had less than ten IRS and fifteen years ago they had maybe two to three IRS at a hundred percent nowadays they're exceeding a hundred IRS so tremendous gross in the last 15 years

in the other hand Ethiopia is a very similar sized country but they only have three to five IRS that are not a hundred percent IRS and are still many of them are under training so there are major differences between countries within

within Africa countries that still need a lot of help and a lot of growth and countries that are like ten fifteen years ahead as far as as far as intervention ready intervention radiology

most of the practice in Ethiopia are basic biopsies drainages and vascular access but there is new workshops with with embolization as well as well as well as vascular access in Egypt the the ir practice is heavily into

interventional oncology and cancer that's the bulk that's the bulk of their of their practices you also get very strong neuro intervention radiology and that's mostly most of these are French trained and not

American trains so they're the neuro IRS in Egypt or heavily French and Belgian trains with with french-speaking influence but the bulk of the body iron that's not neuro is mostly cancer and it involves y9e tastes ablations high-end

ablations there's no cryoablation in Egypt there is high-end like like a nano knife reverse electric race electroporation in Egypt as well but there is no cryo you also get a specialty embolization such as fibroids

prostate and embroiders are big in Egypt they're growing very very rapidly especially prostates hemorrhoids and fibroids is an older one but it's still there's still a lot of growth for fibroid embolization zyou FES in Egypt

there's some portal portal intervention there's a lot of need for that but not a lot of IRS are actually doing portal intervention and then there's nonvascular such as billary gu there's also vascular access a lot of

the vascular access is actually done by nephrology and is not done by not not done by r is done by some high RS varicose veins done by vascular surgery and done by IRS as an outpatient there's a lot of visceral angiography as well

renal and transplants stuff so it's pretty high ends they do not do P ad very few IR s and maybe probably two IR s in the country that actually do P ad the the rest of the P ad is actually endovascular PA DS done by vascular

surgery a Horta is done all by vascular surgery and cardiothoracic surgery it's not done it's not done by IR IR s are asked just to help with embolization sometimes help with trying to get a catheter in a certain area but it's

really run by by vascular surgeons but but most more or less it's it's the whole gamut and I'm going to give you a little example of how things are different that when it comes to a Kannamma 'kz there's no dialysis work

they don't do Pfister grams they don't do D clots the reason for that is the vascular surgeons are actually very good at establishing fishless and they usually don't have a

lot of problems with it sometimes if the fistula is from Beau's door narrowed it's surgically revised they do a surgical thrombectomy because it's a lot cheaper it's a lot cheaper than balloons sheaths and and trying to and try a TPA

is very expensive it's a lot cheaper for a surgeon to just clean it out surgically and resuture it there's no there's no inventory there are no expensive consumables so we don't see dialysis as far as fistula or dialysis

conduits at all in Egypt and that's usually a trend in developed in developed countries next we'll talk

questions comments and accusations please hello this topic is very personal to me I've had it actually had a UFE so this is like one of my big things I work in the outpatient center as well as a

hospital where we perform you Effy's and frequently the radiologist will have me go in and talk to the patient it's from a personal perspective one of the issues which it may just have been from my situation was pain control post UFE

whether you normally tell your patients about pain control after the UFE someone say we are all struggling with this yeah oh it's not what's your question is going to be okay good I'm gonna get doctor Dora to answer Shawn the question

is what do you what do we do with this pain issue you know what are you doing for the home there at Emory there you know and a lot of practices we we don't rely on one magic bullet for pain control recently we've been doing

alternate procedures for two adjunctive procedures to help with pain control for example there are nerve blocks that you can do like a superior hypogastric nerve block there's there's Tylenol that can be given intravenously which is seems to

be a little more effective than by mouth there's there's a you know it and a lot of times it's it's a delicate balance right between pain post procedural pain because you can often get the pain well controlled with with narcotics opioid

with a pain pump but the problem is 12 hours later the patients is extremely nauseous and that's what keeps her in the hospital so it's a it's a balance between pain control and nausea you can you can hit the nausea

beforehand using a pain and scopolamine patch that that'll get built up in the system during the procedure and that kind of obviates the nausea issues like I said that the the nerve blocks the the tile and also there are some other

medicines that can can be used adjunctive leaf or for pain control in addition to to the to the opioids so the answer the question is there are multiple there multiple answers to the question there's not one magic bullet so

that helped it did one of the things that I tell the patients is that you know everyone is different and yet some people I've seen patients come out and they have no pain they're like perfect and then some come out and they are

writhing in the bed and they're hurting and they're rolling all around what and I always ask the acid docs are you telling them they could possibly have you know pain after the procedure because some have the expectation that

I'm going to be pain-free and that's not always the case so they have an unrealistic expectation that I'm gonna have the UFE but not have pain what I also tell them is that the pain it's kind of like an investment right and

this is easy for a guy to say that right but but it's it's an investment the worst part the worst pain you should be feeling is the first 12 12 hours or so every day I tell my patient you're gonna be getting better and better and better

with far as the pain as long as you is you follow our little cookbook of medicines that we give you on the way home and I want you to make sure that you fill these prescriptions on the way home or you have someone fill those

prescriptions for you before he or she picked you up in the hospital and lately we have been and I see that you're there as well lots of other little tricks that are out there right and again there are all

little tricks so ensure arterial lidocaine doctor there is near alluded to and if you're on si R Connect you may it may spill over on some of your chat rooms here people have been using like muscle relaxant like flexural or

robertson with some success but just know that we don't have any studies that tell us how that's supposed to do so when i have someone that is like writhing in pain i just use everything so i do it superior hypogastric nerve

vlog and i actually will do some intra-arterial lidocaine although not so much lately i have been using the muscle relaxant but i will warn you that i've had two patients with extreme anticholinergic effects where they are

now not able to pee from that so you know where we're doing that balance act I see that you're there can I take that question here first just so we're we're doing the same thing we're using the multimodal just throwing all these

things at people and we're trying the superior hypogastric blocks but we're collaborating with anesthesia to do that right now do you all do your own blocks or do you collaborate with anesthesia we do our own blocks okay it isn't it is

not that difficult I would tell you that but again it's kind of like you know you got to do if you start feeling better and then you're like we don't really need them we'll just do it on our own okay thank you again yes what's the

acceptable interval between UFE and for IBF oh that's a your question what is the interval between UFE and IVF so if you wanted to get pregnant yeah and can you have a you Fe and then have an IVF like how long would you have to wait

wait and tell you before you can have that the IBF it I guess it really depends on the age of the patient because we know that that the threshold for which patient tend to have that inability to conceive

is around 45 years old so you know it did below the you know below the age of 45 the risk of causing ovarian failure or or the inability to conceive is significantly less it's zero zero to three percent so I would say that you

know you probably want the effects of the fibroid embolization to two to take effect it takes around 12 months for these fibroids to shrink down to their most weight that they're gonna they're going to shrink down the most I wouldn't

say you need to wait 12 months to put our nine vitro fertilization there's no good there's no good literature out there I don't believe that's your next and so I would say just remember that if you came to my practice and you said you

wanted to get pregnant I will be sending you to talk to fertility specialists beforehand we do not perform embolization procedures as a way to become pregnant there's no data to support that but if you saw your

gynecologist and they said let's do this then I'm sure they'll be doing lots of adjunct things to figure out what would be an ideal time then to for you to have IVF and if I dove not having any data to inform me I would ask you to wait a year

and what will be the effect of those hormones that they gave you if for example a patient has existing fibroids what would be the effect of those hormones that IVF doctors prescribed their patients yeah so fibroids actually

can grow during pregnancy so I would say that most of those hormones are pro fertility hormones so I would expect that maybe you can see some of that effect as well yeah alright if you have any other questions you can grab me oh

you're I'm sorry go with it okay yes we we have time I don't want to keep anybody here for that so I have a two-fold question the first one is post-procedure can you use a diclofenac patch or a 12-hour pain

patch that is a an NSAID have you have any experience with that and your next question my second part of the question is there a patient profile or a psychological profile that tips you that the patient is not going to be able to

candidate because of their issues around pain so they're two separate but we have in success sending people home that first day so I'm looking to just make it better I haven't had experience with the Clos

phonetic patch it's in theory it seems ok you know these are all the these are they're all these are non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs so there are different potency levels for all of them they you know they range from very low

with with naproxen to to a little bit higher with toradol like that clover neck I think is somewhere in between so we found that at least I found that that q6 our our tour at all it tends to help a lot so with that said I I don't have

much experience with it with the patch in answer to your second question the only thing I can say is there there is a strong correlation between size of fibroids and the the amount of a post procedural pain and post embolization

syndrome so there really you know we often say we don't really care too much about the number of fibroids but the size of the fibroid is is is should be you know you should you should look at that on pre procedural imaging because

if it gets too big it may not be worth it for the patient because they may be in severe pain the more embolic you put into the blood supply's applying the the fibroid the the greater the pain post procedural pain

are there multiple other factors that would contribute to pain but that's that's one aspect you can you can look at post procedurally on imaging okay thank you very much yes ma'am hi what what kind of catheter do you use

to catheterize the fibroid artery when you pass by radio access yeah so over the last three years the companies have been really very good about that so there are a few things that I without endorsing one company or the other that

you need to make sure that the sheath that you're using is one of those radial sheets a company that makes a radio sheath you should not use a femoral sheath for radial access so no cheating where that's concern you may get away

with it once or twice but it will catch up to you and you need a catheter that is long enough to go from the radio to the to the groin so I'm looking for like a 120 or 125 centimeter kind of angled catheter whether it's hydrophilic the

whole way or just a hydrophilic tip or not at all you can you can choose which one in our practice most of us still tend to use a micro catheter through that catheter although if I'm using a for French and good glide calf and it

just flips into like a nice big juicy uterine artery then I may just go ahead and take that and do the embolization if the fellow is not scrubbed in as well so thanks a lot but they make they make many different kinds like that and more

of those are to come all right I'm you can please please please send us any other questions that you have thanks for your time and attention and enjoy the rest of the living

to talk about is indirect angiography this is kind of a neat trick to suggest to your intervention list as a problem solver we were asked to ablate this lesion and it looked kind of funny this patient had a resection for HCC they

thought this was a recurrence so we bring the comb beam CT and we do an angio and it doesn't enhance so this is an image here of indirect port ography so what you can do is an SMA run and see at which point along the

run do you pacify the portal vein and you just set up your cone beam CT for that time so you just repeat your injection and now your pacifying the entire portal vein even though you haven't selected it and what to show

well this was a portal aneurysm after resection with a little bit of clot in it the patient went on some aspirin and it resolved in three months so back to our first patient what do you do for someone who has HCC that's invading the

heart this patient underwent 2y 90s bland embolization microwave ablation chemotherapy and SBRT and he's an eight-year survivor so it's one of those things where certainly with the correct patient selection you can find the right

things to do for someone I think that usually our best results come from our interdisciplinary consensus in terms of trying to use the unique advantages that individual therapies have and IO is just one of those but this is an important

lesson to our whole group that you know a lot of times you get your best results when you use things like a team approach so in summary there are applications to IO prior to surgery to make people surgical candidates there are definitive

treatments ie your cancer will be treated definitively with curative intent a lot of times we can save when people have tried cure intent and weren't able to and obviously to palliate folks to try to buy them time

and quality of life thermal ablation is safe and effective for small lesions but it's limited by the adjacent anatomy y9t is not an ischemic therapy it's an ablative therapy you're putting small ablative radioactive particles within

the lesion and just using the blood supply as a conduit for your brachytherapy and you can use this as a new admin application to make people safer surgical candidates when you apply to the entire ride a panic globe

thanks everyone appreciate it [Applause] [Music]

Sean I know you have not seen these slides at all you wanted I John can talk about this with his eyes closed so it's

not like there's anything but this is the data that was published from the Jade publishing jvi are from what Sean has written and it's just the current standards relating to what you should be expecting what we tell our patients that

they should expect for outcomes as it relates to uterine artery embolization again I'm not really here to try to point this I know you can google these you can get the information yourself but just to say that all of our procedures

have risk and we need to be clear with our patients about them now I believe that with all of these risks combined the benefits of doing uterine fibroid embolization for most patients is far greater than the risk and that's why I

really do have my practice so these are the benefits right shorter hospital stay and I would say more cost-effective and that is really debatable because gynecologists have become smarter and smarter now they're doing like same-day

hysterectomies if you have a vaginal hysterectomy then maybe a UFE is not as cost-effective because they don't have to do an MRI beforehand and they don't get an MRI afterwards and do all of that anyway and if you look at the long-term

cost of that then maybe having a hysterectomy in some patients could be that but we know for sure that patients are more satisfied when they get a embolization procedure than in my MEC to me not in the beginning run because the

procedure can be very painful that is not the procedure itself is painful but post embolization syndrome which could last anywhere from five to seven days can can be very painful again this is the comparative data that was published

by dr. Spees who is our gold medal winner this year understand a lot a lot of work in this space has allowed us to have this conversation with our gynecology partners but also with our patients as we talked about like when

can you return to work how long are you going to be all for you know am I going to need extra child care or whatever how long would I be in the hospital this information helps us to inform our patients about that then on average

you'll stay in the hospital around you know a day or so and most uterine artery embolization procedures are same-day procedures and interventional radiologists are doing these in freestanding centers as well as other

providers without any issues so we're almost down to the end we know that fibroid embolization is proven to be an effective and durable a procedure for controlling patient symptoms it's minimally invasive and it's outpatient

most patients can go back to some normal activity in one to two weeks it has a low complication rates and some patients mein neatest to surgery and should have surgery so in our practice we send around 1/3 of our patients or so to

surgery and the reason that that is that high is that patients are allowed to come and see myself or dr. de riz Nia from the street they do not have to be referred from their gynecologist and so they're just coming from the street then

you will be referring them to a gynecologist because of some of the things that may not make them a good candidate for embolization such as this

patients may be asking you is like what about adenomyosis and I've been hearing something about that which is not exactly fibroids right it's a different entity though the symptoms could be kind of the same and for the years and years

and years we wouldn't have any options for patients who had adenomyosis in fact the only option for patients with adenomyosis is surgery but adenomyosis can coexist with fibroids and sometimes patient presents with adenomyosis alone

so we've had some studies now that have looked at that and although the data is not as robust and not as awesome as for patients with fibroids we do provide a performing bolas Asian for those patients with particles that are little

smaller than what we would use for fibroids with results as you're seen there before now the only other new thing that's on the market and it's not so new to you guys that are probably doing radial in femorals anyway working

in cardiac labs and IR labs it's actually what we call the trophy if you go back one slide for me mr. a the person and press play then we will be able to see that radial access I do not work for Merritt they don't give me a

dime I just thought that this was a good video is there volume on that at all if not I can just talk about it and really what it says is that if you need to a radial UFE or have radial axis for a uterine embolization patients just love

it more they and especially like patients that are already just intimidated they don't want you going near their groins at all they actually could just lay on the table we don't have to put up we don't put a Foley in

they just get a radial access the same way that you would just be starting in a line except we have special types of radial catheters and and sheaves to do that and I don't offer a radial access to

patients who are too tall for our catheters or if they've had multiple prior radial access and don't have an intact ulnar artery to complete their hand but it's much like any of that femoral access that you would normally

see they make special hydrophilic sheaths now they're called from this particular company slender technology where the inner diameter of the sheath essentially the sheath is the same like five French on the outside but they have

cored out the inside so it's a bigger diameter so it's a five six so on the outside it's a five but it will take a six French in the inner inner lumen and you know my practice we do more than 80% of all our arterial punctures with a

radial access and everybody here comes dr. Sean Deroche Nia who is the leading author of that paper for SI R and one of my esteemed partners so most patients are able to get up and walk out if you are go from a radial access the access

is actually closed with just a radial band and the complications of having a hematoma or having the patient's bleed out those just all go away but radial axis have their own complications so I'm not here to say that it is not that but

in our practice we found it to be safe and effective our patients want it and it's become like a practice differentiator so if you're working in a practice that don't do radial you EFI's right now you should mention it because

if you're in a population where the other providers are only doing femoral then you will automatically get the patients that only want that so here's a patient that had a radial access you can see a catheter that is coming from the

aorta while you can't see that it's not up and over the bifurcation but maybe you do can see that and there's a catheter in the uterine artery with the characteristic

shape of the uterine artery and the characteristic curlicue vessels of of the fibroid and on the left you can see the Imogen for beforehand and the Imogen on the right of post embolization where there is stagnant flow in the main

uterine not main uterine artery in the horizontal portion of the uterine artery for greater than five cardiac beads and again there's there's no reason that you have to know that level of detail except that you're scrubbing in but if you're

in the audience you're looking at this you're like dr. Newsome I see an air bubble there as well then I'd say good because because I do see it too so you can see the preimage and you can see the post image for pre and post embolization

these these procedures can be quick these procedures are very very rewarding and and I love to do it

so we kind of had a bunch of portal vein cases I think we'll stick with that theme and this is a 53 year old woman who presented to the emergency room with severe abdominal pain about three hours after she ate lunch she had a ruin why two weeks prior the medications were

really non-contributory and she had a high lactic acid so she they won her a tan on consi t scan and this is you can see back on the date which is two years ago or a year and a half ago we're still seeing her now and follow-up and there

was a suggestion that the portal vein was thrombosed even on the non con scan so we went ahead and got a duplex and actually the ER got one and confirmed that portal vein was occluded so they consulted us and we had this kind of

debate about what the next step might be and so we decided well like all these patients we'll put her on some anticoagulation and see how she does her pain improved and her lactate normalized but two days later when she tried to eat

a little bit of food she became severely symptomatic although her lactate remain normal she actually became hypotensive had severe abdominal pain and realized that she couldn't eat anything so then the question comes what do you do for

this we did get an MRA and you can see if there's extensive portal vein thrombus coming through the entire portal vein extending into the smv so what do we do here in the decision this is something that we do a good bit of

but these cases can get a little complicated we decided that would make a would make an attempt to thrombolysis with low-dose lytx the problem is she's only two weeks out of a major abdominal surgery but she did have recurrent

anorexia and significant pain we talked about trying to do this mechanically and I'd be interested to hear from our panel later but primary mechanical portal vein thrombus to me is oftentimes hard to establish really good flow based on our

prior results we felt we need some thrombolysis so we started her decided to access the portal vein trance of Pataca lee and you can see this large amount of clot we see some meds and tera collaterals later i'll show you the SMB

and and so we have a wire we have a wide get a wire in put a catheter in and here we are coming down and essentially decide to try a little bit of TPA and a moderate dose and we went this was late in the afternoon so we figured it would

just go for about ten or twelve hours and see what happened she returned to the IRS suite the following day for a lysis check and at that what we normally do in these cases is is and she likes a good bit but you can see there's still

not much intrahepatic flow and there's a lot of clots still present it's a little hard to catheterize her portal vein here we are going down in the SMB there's a stenosis there I'm not sure if that's secondary to her surgery but there's a

relatively tight stenosis there so we balloon that and then given the persistent clot burden we decide to create a tips to help her along so here we are coming transit paddock we have a little bit of open portal vein still not

great flow in the portal vein but we're able to pass a needle we have a catheter there so we can O pacify and and pass a needle in and here we are creating the tips in this particular situation we decide to create a small tips not use a

covered stent decide to use a bare metal stent and make it small with the hope that maybe it'll thrombosed in time we wouldn't have to deal with the long-term problems with having a shunt but we could restore flow and let that vein

remodel so now we're into the second day and this is you know we do this intermittently but for us this is not something most of the patients we can manage with anticoagulation so we do this tips but again the problem here is

a still significant clot in the portal vein and even with the tips we're not seeing much intrahepatic flow so we use some smart stance and we think we could do it with one we kind of miss align it so we

end up with the second one the trick Zieve taught me which is never to do it right the first time joking xiv and these are post tips and yo still not a lot of great flow in the portal vein in the smv

and really no intrahepatic flow so the question is do we leave that where do we go from here so at this point through our transit pata catheter we can pass an aspiration catheter and we can do this mechanical

aspiration of the right and left lobes you see us here vacuuming using this is with the Indigo system and we can go down the smv and do that this is a clot that we pull out after lysis that we still have still a lot of clot and now

when we do this run you see that s MV is open we're filling the right and left portal vein and we're able to open things up and and keep the the tips you see is small but it's enough I think to promote flow and with that much clot now

gone with that excellent flow we're not too worried about whether this tips goes down we coil our tract on the way out continue our own happened and then trance it kind of transfer over to anti platelets advanced or diet she does

pretty well she comes back for follow-up and the tips are still there it's open her portal vein remains widely Peyton she does have one year follow-up actually a year and a half out but here's her CT the tip shuts down the

portal vein stays widely Peyton the splenic vein widely Peyton she has a big hematoma here from our procedure unfortunately our diagnostic colleagues don't look at any of her old films and call that a tumor tell her that she

probably has a new HCC she panics unbeknownst to us even though we're following her she's in our office she ends up seeing an oncologist he says wait that doesn't seem to make sense he comes back to us this is 11 3 so

remember we did the procedure in 7 so this is five months later at the one year fault that hematoma is completely resolved and she's doing great asymptomatic so yeah the scope will effect right that's exactly right so so

in summary this is it's an interesting case a bit extreme that we often don't do these interventions but when we do I think creating the tips helps us here I think just having the tips alone wasn't going to be enough to remodel so we went

ahead and did the aspiration with it and in this case despite having a hematoma and all shams up resolved and she's a little bit of normal life now and we're still following up so thank you he's

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