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Insulinoma , Recurrent Liver Mets | Bland Embolization | 65 | Male
Insulinoma , Recurrent Liver Mets | Bland Embolization | 65 | Male
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Benefits of UFE | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Benefits of UFE | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
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Outcome data | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Outcome data | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
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Endovascular AVF creation | Twitter Case Files SIR 2019
Endovascular AVF creation | Twitter Case Files SIR 2019
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Therapies for Acute PE | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Therapies for Acute PE | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
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Why Do We Need Different Directions For Occlusions? | AVIR CLI Panel
Why Do We Need Different Directions For Occlusions? | AVIR CLI Panel
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What are the Options? | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
What are the Options? | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
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Q&A Uterine Fibroid Embolization | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Q&A Uterine Fibroid Embolization | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
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Ablative Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
Ablative Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
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Patient Education PET/MRI | PET/MRI: A New Technique to Obtain High Quality Diagnostic Images for Oncology Patients
Patient Education PET/MRI | PET/MRI: A New Technique to Obtain High Quality Diagnostic Images for Oncology Patients
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The Path Forward | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
The Path Forward | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
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Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
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Q&A- Procedural Sedation | Procedural Sedation: An Education Review
Q&A- Procedural Sedation | Procedural Sedation: An Education Review
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The Ablation Concept | Interventional Oncology
The Ablation Concept | Interventional Oncology
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Indirect Angiography | Interventional Oncology
Indirect Angiography | Interventional Oncology
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Why Treat Carotid Occlusive Disease? | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
Why Treat Carotid Occlusive Disease? | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
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Systemic vs Catheter-based Thrombolysis | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Systemic vs Catheter-based Thrombolysis | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
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UFE and Adenomyosis | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
UFE and Adenomyosis | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
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Case 1 - Non-healing heel wound, Rutherford Cat. 5, previous stroke | Recanalization, Atherectomy | Complex Above Knee Cases with Re-entry Devices and Techniques
Case 1 - Non-healing heel wound, Rutherford Cat. 5, previous stroke | Recanalization, Atherectomy | Complex Above Knee Cases with Re-entry Devices and Techniques
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The Landscape of PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
The Landscape of PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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Cone Beam CT | Interventional Oncology
Cone Beam CT | Interventional Oncology
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The Ways to Recanalize the Below the Knee Vessels | AVIR CLI Panel
The Ways to Recanalize the Below the Knee Vessels | AVIR CLI Panel
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Pulmonary Ablation | Interventional Oncology
Pulmonary Ablation | Interventional Oncology
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How We Established our Practice Guidelines | Risk Mitigation: Periprocedural Screening and Anticoagulation Guidelines to Reduce Interventional Radiology Bleeding Risks
How We Established our Practice Guidelines | Risk Mitigation: Periprocedural Screening and Anticoagulation Guidelines to Reduce Interventional Radiology Bleeding Risks
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Renal Ablation | Interventional Oncology
Renal Ablation | Interventional Oncology
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What's Next | AVIR CLI Panel
What's Next | AVIR CLI Panel
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Ideal Uterine Fibroid Embolization Candidates | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Ideal Uterine Fibroid Embolization Candidates | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
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Bland Embolization | Interventional Oncology
Bland Embolization | Interventional Oncology
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General Screening Criteria (specific to bleeding risk) | Risk Mitigation: Periprocedural Screening and Anticoagulation Guidelines to Reduce Interventional Radiology Bleeding Risks
General Screening Criteria (specific to bleeding risk) | Risk Mitigation: Periprocedural Screening and Anticoagulation Guidelines to Reduce Interventional Radiology Bleeding Risks
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Massive PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
Massive PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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Treatment Options- TransCarotid Artery Revascularization- TCAR | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
Treatment Options- TransCarotid Artery Revascularization- TCAR | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
angiographyangioplastyarterybleedbloodcalcifiedcarotidchapterclaviclecommondebrisdevicedistalembolicembolizationexposurefemoralflowimageincisioninstitutionlabeledpatientprocedureprofileproximalreversalreversesheathstenosisstentstentingstepwisesurgicalsuturedsystemultimatelyveinvenousvessel
Transcript

so this is a 65 year old man with insulinoma, and liver metastases and he's symptomatic. He has episodes of hyporglycemia requiring IV dextrose and here's what the CT looks like. You can see multiple hypervascular lesions. For neuroendocrine tumor, we're typically doing at our hospital

we're doing bland embolization and they're typically lobar embolizations because it's typically a multi focal tumor. So in this case we're treating the right hepatic artery and if you look at the follow up, this is six months post embolization. So if we compare initially,

we have these large tumors. Six months post, you can see they're smaller, they're non enhancing, so pretty good result. And then two years later you can see he starts to develop some new enhancing lesions, some new metastasis but it's very small,

it's slow growing, he's asymptomatic so we actually did not re-embolize at this point. We continued to follow him, and then four years post embolization they're still slowly growing,

he's still asymptomatic but at this point he has a decent volume of disease so at this point we re-embolized. So the point of this case is that when you have a small volume of slow growing neuroendocrine tumor you don't have to re-embolize the recurrences immediately.

So in this case if we re-embolized him every time there's a little bit of recurrent enhancement, we could potentially be embolizing him every six months. And then we'd have eight embolizations in four years and his liver would be pretty beat up at that point.

So we tend to wait until the tumor starts growing, they have more volume or they become asymptomatic before we retreat. >> Now it's most likely that this guy has a mesothelioma that he was not being treated with embolotherapy isolation. So you wanna comment on what other medical therapies this patient

would have been on during that four years? >> Yeah. So he was on octreotide, I don't think they actually resected his primary. But the primary was stable on the follow up scans. >> Okay.

So it's a little unusual just to have an insulinoma that stayed stable on, just cuz it's a with a grade one tumor, insulinomas tend to be more aggressive, so this is the kind of thing where I totally agree with your approach in terms of embolization, the big concern neurocan tumors is you're gonna

run out of bullets and then they're gonna die from pre hepatic tumor and you won't be able to embolize them again. So I completely agree with stringing out as long as possible between cycles of embolization, so you don't burn all your arteries. And the same thing applies to Y90,

they can only get Y90 maybe a couple times. I have two patients I've done three cycles, but they were three years apart in neuro endocrin patients, and their liver function

was preserved, that's pretty rare. So, all these patients eventually get to the point where you can't embolize them any more and they die from liver recurrence and I hate it when that happens. So, it is good to string it out, but I think it's also important that you manage these patients with

a neurocan tumor board or at least some collaborative fashion because there are lots of great drugs in neuroendocrin tumors that either stabilize or sort of reduce disease. So an insulinoma patient like this I want a similar who they often respond pretty well to everolimus although that's more of a antistatic agent if can tolelrate everolimus and then CAPTEM

which is an oral chemoptherapy combination cytotoxic actually has about a 60% response rate. So I have one of my insulinoma patients now where I really have embolized her so many times, I'm getting nervous that I'm running out of bullets and she also is very sensitive to her insulin levels

going up. Tends to do things like pass out and crash her car, so we put her on CAPTEM and it's been like two years now and she has no symptoms and no measurable disease. So you're not working in isolation, here you wanna working in a

team and you wanna figure out what's part of the auto medicine in neuroendocrin patients as when to integrate your liver directed therapies with your systemic therapies, and kinda who goes next and one nice thing to do is actually ask someone you can kinda pass the ball back and forth,

so you can dream for a while, give him to a med unc/g for a while, and they can pass them back to you for a while, and you can sort of maximize the length of your benefit. Does anyone have any comment on how you do this? >> I agree, I think the tricky thing is

as you guys were already talking about is when do you pull the trigger? The asymptomatic, I mean if the patient is symptomatic it's easy but the asymptomatic slowly progressive neuroendocrine patient, when do you actually jump back in and make that decision to treat and I agree it's pretty difficult.

We have these discussions at tumor board. If they have significant progression like you see here like we would generally jump back in and I wouldn't wanna wait for this patient to progress even more even though they're asymptomatic but we regularly see people referred in from community oncologists that have waited on the asymptomatic neuroendocrine patient until they

have such bulky disease they're getting capsular pain biliary obstruction and you don't wanna wait that long. So we see that mistake made a lot so you can definitely be too aggressive and you can definitely be too conservative, try to find a sweet spot in the middle. >> Yeah, this is definitely a pitfall in neuroendocrine

patients because they've aggressed so slowly, and I got burned on a number of these earlier in my career when I was sort of foolish and did what Bill which is saw asyptomatic normal liver functions and decided to wait. And the problem is that the imaging will often underestimate the amount of disease infiltration and because it infiltrates so slowly,

the LTs will be normal and then you finally pull the trigger when they have over 50% tumor burden and they die of liver failure and then an autopsy what you find is they actually have 90 % tumor burden you just couldn't see it on your imaging. So you don't really wanna let it go that long and there are various cut points that predict worse outcomes, but generally for sure around

50% patients who have an over 50% tumor burden, have worse survival. But actually have worse tumor control after embolotherapy than patients if you treat them before they get to 50% tumor burden so you don't wanna wait that long. The other pitfall you see is because they progress so slowly, if

you're scaning them every three months or even every six months, they'll often get a scan that's red and stable because they only compare it to the prior scan. And often you have to go back a year or two to actually see that they've actually had the 20% growth that would be progression by this criteria. So, you know you can get a load

on this false sense of stability when in fact they are growing slowly, you just have to kinda visual, I always look at the pictures myself and for the nets I always pull up pictures from a year or two years previously, and often what you will see is there is actually real progression going on but the diagnostic wiz/g will never say

that. >> One other comment about Y90 in these patients and we talked about this a few weeks ago but there is a little bit concern in the neuroendocrine community about delayed sort of laid toxicity from Y90. And I think in a colorectal patient who probably doesn't have a very good

five year survival, using Y90 is great and we have good data for that in the salvage setting but in a neuroendocrin patient who might live 10 or 15 or 20 years with their disease, I think we have to really carefully think about when we integrate Y90 in these patients and whether or not there is potential for delayed toxicity from liver fibrosis from Y90. And especially now that most of these patients

are gonna be getting a bunch of systemic agents which ten years ago they wouldn't have been getting now they are getting a bunch of biologic agents and targeted agents and I've had a couple of patients that have gotten liver fibrosis after Y90 and it's a horrible outcome from Y90. So we for that reason use chemoembolization for first line in the low grade neuroendocrine patient and Y90

only if they don't respond to chemoembolization.

Sean I know you have not seen these slides at all you wanted I John can talk about this with his eyes closed so it's

not like there's anything but this is the data that was published from the Jade publishing jvi are from what Sean has written and it's just the current standards relating to what you should be expecting what we tell our patients that

they should expect for outcomes as it relates to uterine artery embolization again I'm not really here to try to point this I know you can google these you can get the information yourself but just to say that all of our procedures

have risk and we need to be clear with our patients about them now I believe that with all of these risks combined the benefits of doing uterine fibroid embolization for most patients is far greater than the risk and that's why I

really do have my practice so these are the benefits right shorter hospital stay and I would say more cost-effective and that is really debatable because gynecologists have become smarter and smarter now they're doing like same-day

hysterectomies if you have a vaginal hysterectomy then maybe a UFE is not as cost-effective because they don't have to do an MRI beforehand and they don't get an MRI afterwards and do all of that anyway and if you look at the long-term

cost of that then maybe having a hysterectomy in some patients could be that but we know for sure that patients are more satisfied when they get a embolization procedure than in my MEC to me not in the beginning run because the

procedure can be very painful that is not the procedure itself is painful but post embolization syndrome which could last anywhere from five to seven days can can be very painful again this is the comparative data that was published

by dr. Spees who is our gold medal winner this year understand a lot a lot of work in this space has allowed us to have this conversation with our gynecology partners but also with our patients as we talked about like when

can you return to work how long are you going to be all for you know am I going to need extra child care or whatever how long would I be in the hospital this information helps us to inform our patients about that then on average

you'll stay in the hospital around you know a day or so and most uterine artery embolization procedures are same-day procedures and interventional radiologists are doing these in freestanding centers as well as other

providers without any issues so we're almost down to the end we know that fibroid embolization is proven to be an effective and durable a procedure for controlling patient symptoms it's minimally invasive and it's outpatient

most patients can go back to some normal activity in one to two weeks it has a low complication rates and some patients mein neatest to surgery and should have surgery so in our practice we send around 1/3 of our patients or so to

surgery and the reason that that is that high is that patients are allowed to come and see myself or dr. de riz Nia from the street they do not have to be referred from their gynecologist and so they're just coming from the street then

you will be referring them to a gynecologist because of some of the things that may not make them a good candidate for embolization such as this

new data of the Emmy trial that came out last year our ten-year results saying

that after ten years after ten years women who wanted to retain their uterus they looked at them in ten years three-quarters of those women were still very very satisfied and also were still able to retain their uterus so ten-year

data came out randomizing people for uterine artery embolization versus hysterectomy of the women who chose you to an artery embolization ten years later they were still very happy so I tell my patients that this is what you

should expect that you will have symptomatic improvement in 12 months around 85 to 95 percent of the patients are pretty happy there is a entry intervention rate it is not zero and it can be higher than ten

depending on what kind of Imogen is seen ahead of time and that we know that dysfunctional uterine bleed tend to do a little bit better than bulk type symptoms and that's partly because of subjective nature of that so this is one

of the patients that I treated when I was in in Virginia and Riverside and she's a former miss Brazil and she came to see us with what she also called reversed cycles like she would bleed more than she would not and she was

wearing depends and it took everything to just coach her out of the car to come inside to do a consultation because she was so afraid that if she got out she would be sitting in a pool of blood and she had an MRI showing what looked like

a eleven point seven centimeter fibroid she had embolization and that was her six month follow-up MRI to the right which looks like a very impressive result they don't all look this way which is why I save this image something

that looks like a normal uterus now I for the persons that I told to hold your high horse here is the time okay so what happens if I want to have a baby because these are the things you remember we're being ambassadors for this procedure we

need to be having the answers for the things that are our friends and family members are going to be asking us so if you want to have a baby I would say that the data that informs us as to what to do with you is still very weak but the

only randomized prospective trial that we have out there says that you should actually have myomectomy and a Cochrane review was also done and it still says that there's very low level evidence suggesting that myomectomy may be

associated with better fertility outcomes as opposed to UAE but more research is needed and we still require more research so at the very least what I have to do and now you feel compelled to do is to send my patients to see

someone who is a fertility specialist in consultation so we can make this decision together so if your poor surgical candidate if you have the gazillion fibroids and if you've had surgery before a hostile

abdomen and the patient says you know what dr. Newsome there's nothing that you can tell me ever to say that I'm going to have surgery then we're going to be doing something else that is not surgery okay the other thing that your

so this is our MGH page we started it about a year ago check it out if you guys like it some pretty good cases we mostly post cases some policy stuff industry and changing things it's not purely cases but certainly take a look if you like it give us a follow so what

I have today is I have two cases that I picked and you know for all the thousands of cases that all these huge academic medical centers do I tried to pick a couple that might be a little interesting and that aren't being done

in all the different centers across the institution so I'll start off with the first which is an endovascular AVF creation so what's nice about this is that you know what we see so far from this is that the length of stay impact

has been certainly reduced in certainly the maturation times and the Rhian turn re intervention rates have been reduced so I'll go through this and normally wouldn't go step by step for a few things but I think you know not all

institutions are doing this yet I think that you will I do think this is going to be a shift for a lot of the dialysis patients and everybody who works anion knows what a huge impact it is the ESRD patients is just astronomical the

numbers of them it's just continuing to rise so procedural steps the first step is you're going to access the brachial vein advance the guide Y down to the ulna insert a six French sheath and perform a vena Graham and the rationale

for that of course is to make sure you don't have any issues centrally some centers do that in advance some centers don't I will mention also that the ultrasound mapping is absolutely critical to make sure that

you get the right patient you start off by seeing them in the outpatient clinic and then you're going to go and have them have vascular ultrasound to make sure you have a good candidate so the next is you're gonna access the brachial

artery same thing advance your guide wire down to the ulna from there you're gonna insert the venous side now this is one of two approved vendors that will allow you to do an endovascular creation this was a wave link it's a to stick

system and it requires two catheters which is why you see the next step is pretty much repeated but just flipping it to the arterial side so from there there's a magnetic zone it actually has like a little canoe so it's got a

backing of a ceramic sort of a space there if you can think of sort of the older or atherectomy cut home catheters that had that little carro canoe you would actually take the debris out it's very

look into that and I'll show you that in a couple of images once you align that you're gonna sort of engage the little electrode this is an RF ablation RF created type fistula so it creates a little slit between the Adri and the

vein and what happens is is that you know of course don't forget you have to ground the patient just like any RF once you get the magnets and you get the electrode alignment you're going to engage the device for two seconds and

the fistula is created and then from there a lot of centers are actually going in there embolize in one of the brachial veins and this is basically to sum some of that stuff obviously to the superficial system for draining I have

read that there are a few places that actually go back back in through the newly-created fistula like even at the time of the procedure with the 4 millimeter balloon and just sort of open that up I'm not sure that that's 100%

necessary but I'm sure all these fine people on the panel could help us with that so here you see and I skipped all the entry steps but here you can see the Venus in the arterial catheter you know in position here and there's that little

canoe thing pointed out by the arrow that I had talked about and you use fluoro to sort of align these two things when you first start doing these cases take your time the first one was over an hour and a half for us now obviously

it's about a third at that time this is the little electrode this is when it's advanced and pretty much ready to engage can you play the video for me so this is quick so what happens is you suppress the

device the electrode actually advances and as it advances towards the veena side what happens is is that it actually just creates this fistula through the RF sort of energy from there you're gonna do a post vena graph in here you can see

after we did an initial post intagram there was enough sort of flow between the PIAT brachial so we decided to embolize one and this patient was our first patient and is doing very well so far this is done on I'm gonna say just

because you know to dr. brains point I don't want to get on the hook for certain dates and patient identification but this was done in mid-march so we saw them two weeks out and we're gonna see them again another couple weeks so just

there's a couple of trials that you can read into one is the neat one is the flex trial I think the technical success is really promising at 96% the maturation days you can see there's a massive massive comparison where they

could be ready to be dialyzed in 60 days and this could be a game-changer for many patients the six-month patency rate is what I've seen in most of the reports it's around 98% compared to about 50% with the surgical place and then you can

see that this about 3.5 interactions or re interventions that are required in about 0.5 at a year's time out from this so it's really making a big difference for these patients and I think this is what we do in i/o we continue advanced

things innovate and obviously look to do things in a more timely cost-effective minimally invasive way at the beginning when these new procedures come out the devices themselves might be at a higher price point but we'll see how that goes

moving forward as more and more vendors get into the space so the second case

PE the first one of course is

anticoagulation so heparin and bridging the patient to coumadin or now aid a direct oral anticoagulant is really the mainstay of treatment most patients again 55 percent of patients with PE have low risk PE all of those patients

should be on according to the chest guidelines three months of anticoagulation so they're gonna get heparin as an inpatient if they even need it and they're gonna get sent home on lovenox bridge to coumadin or they're

gonna get the one of the new drugs like Xarelto or Eliquis but here's all the other things that we do so these patients that are in the intermediate high risk so I'm gonna try to keep saying those terms to try to kind of put

that in everyone's brain because I think the massive and sub massive PE is what everyone used to talk about but we want to keep up with our colleagues in cardiology who are using the correct terminology we're gonna say high risk

and an intermediate but in those patients - intermediate high risk or Matt or the high risk PE patients we're gonna be treating them with systemic thrombolysis catheter directed thrombolysis ultrasound assisted

thrombolysis and maybe some real lytic and elected me or thrombectomy there's other techniques that we can use for one-time removal of clot like rotational and electa me suction thrombus fragmentation and then of course

surgical mblaq t'me so when anticoagulation is not enough so I like to show this slide because it shows the difference between anticoagulation and thrombolysis they are very different and sometimes I think everybody in this room

understands the difference but I think our referring providers don't and so when we when we get consulted and we recommend anticoagulation they're like yeah TPA well that's not the right thing so anticoagulation stops the clotting

process so when you start a patient on a heparin drip they should theoretically no longer before new thrombus on that thrombus so when you have thrombus in a vessel you get a cannon you get a snowball effect more

and more thrombus is gonna want to form heparin stops that TPA however for thrombolysis actually reverses the clouding process so that tissue plasminogen activator or streptokinase or uro kindness will actually dissolve

clot so there you're stopping new clot forming versus actually dissolving clot anticoagulation allows for natural thrombolysis so your body has its own TPA and so when you put a patient on heparin you're allowing your natural

body defenses to work you're giving it more time TPA accelerates that process so you give TPA either systemically or through a catheter you're really speeding up that process anticoagulation on its own has a

lower bleeding risk you're putting a patient on heparin or Combe it in it's it is less but it is still real thrombolysis however is a very very high bleeding risk patients when I when I consult a patient for thrombolysis I

tell them that we are about to do give them the absolute strongest blood clot thinning agent or an reversal agent which is the TPA and we're gonna just run it through your veins for hours and hours

um and that sort of gives them an idea of what we're doing anticoagulation in and of itself is really not invasive you just give it through an IV or even a pill thrombolysis however is given definitely through an IV through

systemic means and a large volume there thereafter or catheter directed so again

and you can see on this t1-weighted image that increased area of enhancement which is the area of synovial thickening you actually see this on MRI beforehand and there it is located over the lateral aspect of the knee on the axial image

and so what we're doing sorry in the medial aspect of the knee so what we're doing here on the angiogram is and you solve these leg angiograms where everyone doesn't really care about these Janicki lit arteries they're really

important when you have sfa or popliteal occlusive disease because they serve as a collateral source but otherwise and people have arthritis they can be a real pain and pain in the knee if you will so this is a this is the superior medial

genicular artery it always drapes over the femoral condyle and you'll see here on this image you don't really see very much once we get into the vessel look at this it almost looks like a small about a cellular carcinoma like when you're in

the liver you get this tumor type blush vascularity that's what we're looking for that corresponds to the patient's area of pain and then after embolization this is what it looks like takes a very small amount

of embolic we're using maybe 0.4 2.6 sometimes 1 CC at most of dilute embolic that we're injecting this is another case again before and after if you look here on the right and then on the left you don't really see much until you

select the vessel out once you get into that super medial vessel you can see how much enhancement there is so in our clinical study of 20 patients this is what we did you'll see on the bottom here we used embassy and 75 micron in 9

patients and 1111 patients got a 100 micron and I'll explain why we upsized our particles so initially we wanted to go very small because that's what dr. o Cano had done in Japan but then we wanted to actually up size our particles

and I'll explain this here in our complications so like all clinical studies the purpose of doing really good clinical research is because this is early and we don't know if they're going to be complications and it's always fun

when you're the first one to figure it out and you tell patients I don't really know what's gonna happen and this is what happens so 13 patients had this kind of skin discoloration over their knee now we knew this because we've been

doing knee embolization for about 10 years in bleeding patients not necessarily arthritic patients so we had seen this before but none of these patients in this clinical study went on to have any alteration of the skin and

it resolved in all patients there was some minor side effects from basically medications and one small groin hematoma but there were two patients who developed plantar numbness over their great toe so under their great toe

basically in the medial distribution of their tibial nerve they ended up getting plantar numbness and this is believed at least in our experience to probably be related to non-target embolization to the tibial nerve the tibial nerve

probably gets its blood supply from many of these generic arteries so we decided

symptoms we've talked about the location so what are the options now I've kind of scared everybody enough said okay fine if my periods are last in more than

seven days if I have pain with my periods if I have clawed if I have painful sexual intercourse back pain hydronephrosis and sciatica all kinds of these little things then maybe I could be having fibrous what do I do about it

and there are several options obviously I'm here to talk about embolization but because everybody in this room is talking about informed consent every day we have to be able to talk to our patients about what are the options and

I always try to start off with the simplest of options doing something or doing nothing remember this is not a cancer this is a benign disease and it's important that we explain to our patients that they also have the option

of doing nothing although doing nothing has some consequences right every action has a consequence and the consequence of doing nothing includes continuing to have your disease continuing to be sick and abnormal and if you chose to do

something let's say a surgical option then obviously you can have hysterectomy or myomectomy now Maya met to me is just where you're cutting out the fibroid hysterectomy is taking the whole uterus out and then there's a whole series of

other things whether you're having it laparoscopically or transvaginal Eeyore I'm here to talk about uterine artery embolization we offer all of these options to our patients though because it's important that we at least know

that there are other options to be done

questions comments and accusations please hello this topic is very personal to me I've had it actually had a UFE so this is like one of my big things I work in the outpatient center as well as a

hospital where we perform you Effy's and frequently the radiologist will have me go in and talk to the patient it's from a personal perspective one of the issues which it may just have been from my situation was pain control post UFE

whether you normally tell your patients about pain control after the UFE someone say we are all struggling with this yeah oh it's not what's your question is going to be okay good I'm gonna get doctor Dora to answer Shawn the question

is what do you what do we do with this pain issue you know what are you doing for the home there at Emory there you know and a lot of practices we we don't rely on one magic bullet for pain control recently we've been doing

alternate procedures for two adjunctive procedures to help with pain control for example there are nerve blocks that you can do like a superior hypogastric nerve block there's there's Tylenol that can be given intravenously which is seems to

be a little more effective than by mouth there's there's a you know it and a lot of times it's it's a delicate balance right between pain post procedural pain because you can often get the pain well controlled with with narcotics opioid

with a pain pump but the problem is 12 hours later the patients is extremely nauseous and that's what keeps her in the hospital so it's a it's a balance between pain control and nausea you can you can hit the nausea

beforehand using a pain and scopolamine patch that that'll get built up in the system during the procedure and that kind of obviates the nausea issues like I said that the the nerve blocks the the tile and also there are some other

medicines that can can be used adjunctive leaf or for pain control in addition to to the to the opioids so the answer the question is there are multiple there multiple answers to the question there's not one magic bullet so

that helped it did one of the things that I tell the patients is that you know everyone is different and yet some people I've seen patients come out and they have no pain they're like perfect and then some come out and they are

writhing in the bed and they're hurting and they're rolling all around what and I always ask the acid docs are you telling them they could possibly have you know pain after the procedure because some have the expectation that

I'm going to be pain-free and that's not always the case so they have an unrealistic expectation that I'm gonna have the UFE but not have pain what I also tell them is that the pain it's kind of like an investment right and

this is easy for a guy to say that right but but it's it's an investment the worst part the worst pain you should be feeling is the first 12 12 hours or so every day I tell my patient you're gonna be getting better and better and better

with far as the pain as long as you is you follow our little cookbook of medicines that we give you on the way home and I want you to make sure that you fill these prescriptions on the way home or you have someone fill those

prescriptions for you before he or she picked you up in the hospital and lately we have been and I see that you're there as well lots of other little tricks that are out there right and again there are all

little tricks so ensure arterial lidocaine doctor there is near alluded to and if you're on si R Connect you may it may spill over on some of your chat rooms here people have been using like muscle relaxant like flexural or

robertson with some success but just know that we don't have any studies that tell us how that's supposed to do so when i have someone that is like writhing in pain i just use everything so i do it superior hypogastric nerve

vlog and i actually will do some intra-arterial lidocaine although not so much lately i have been using the muscle relaxant but i will warn you that i've had two patients with extreme anticholinergic effects where they are

now not able to pee from that so you know where we're doing that balance act I see that you're there can I take that question here first just so we're we're doing the same thing we're using the multimodal just throwing all these

things at people and we're trying the superior hypogastric blocks but we're collaborating with anesthesia to do that right now do you all do your own blocks or do you collaborate with anesthesia we do our own blocks okay it isn't it is

not that difficult I would tell you that but again it's kind of like you know you got to do if you start feeling better and then you're like we don't really need them we'll just do it on our own okay thank you again yes what's the

acceptable interval between UFE and for IBF oh that's a your question what is the interval between UFE and IVF so if you wanted to get pregnant yeah and can you have a you Fe and then have an IVF like how long would you have to wait

wait and tell you before you can have that the IBF it I guess it really depends on the age of the patient because we know that that the threshold for which patient tend to have that inability to conceive

is around 45 years old so you know it did below the you know below the age of 45 the risk of causing ovarian failure or or the inability to conceive is significantly less it's zero zero to three percent so I would say that you

know you probably want the effects of the fibroid embolization to two to take effect it takes around 12 months for these fibroids to shrink down to their most weight that they're gonna they're going to shrink down the most I wouldn't

say you need to wait 12 months to put our nine vitro fertilization there's no good there's no good literature out there I don't believe that's your next and so I would say just remember that if you came to my practice and you said you

wanted to get pregnant I will be sending you to talk to fertility specialists beforehand we do not perform embolization procedures as a way to become pregnant there's no data to support that but if you saw your

gynecologist and they said let's do this then I'm sure they'll be doing lots of adjunct things to figure out what would be an ideal time then to for you to have IVF and if I dove not having any data to inform me I would ask you to wait a year

and what will be the effect of those hormones that they gave you if for example a patient has existing fibroids what would be the effect of those hormones that IVF doctors prescribed their patients yeah so fibroids actually

can grow during pregnancy so I would say that most of those hormones are pro fertility hormones so I would expect that maybe you can see some of that effect as well yeah alright if you have any other questions you can grab me oh

you're I'm sorry go with it okay yes we we have time I don't want to keep anybody here for that so I have a two-fold question the first one is post-procedure can you use a diclofenac patch or a 12-hour pain

patch that is a an NSAID have you have any experience with that and your next question my second part of the question is there a patient profile or a psychological profile that tips you that the patient is not going to be able to

candidate because of their issues around pain so they're two separate but we have in success sending people home that first day so I'm looking to just make it better I haven't had experience with the Clos

phonetic patch it's in theory it seems ok you know these are all the these are they're all these are non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs so there are different potency levels for all of them they you know they range from very low

with with naproxen to to a little bit higher with toradol like that clover neck I think is somewhere in between so we found that at least I found that that q6 our our tour at all it tends to help a lot so with that said I I don't have

much experience with it with the patch in answer to your second question the only thing I can say is there there is a strong correlation between size of fibroids and the the amount of a post procedural pain and post embolization

syndrome so there really you know we often say we don't really care too much about the number of fibroids but the size of the fibroid is is is should be you know you should you should look at that on pre procedural imaging because

if it gets too big it may not be worth it for the patient because they may be in severe pain the more embolic you put into the blood supply's applying the the fibroid the the greater the pain post procedural pain

are there multiple other factors that would contribute to pain but that's that's one aspect you can you can look at post procedurally on imaging okay thank you very much yes ma'am hi what what kind of catheter do you use

to catheterize the fibroid artery when you pass by radio access yeah so over the last three years the companies have been really very good about that so there are a few things that I without endorsing one company or the other that

you need to make sure that the sheath that you're using is one of those radial sheets a company that makes a radio sheath you should not use a femoral sheath for radial access so no cheating where that's concern you may get away

with it once or twice but it will catch up to you and you need a catheter that is long enough to go from the radio to the to the groin so I'm looking for like a 120 or 125 centimeter kind of angled catheter whether it's hydrophilic the

whole way or just a hydrophilic tip or not at all you can you can choose which one in our practice most of us still tend to use a micro catheter through that catheter although if I'm using a for French and good glide calf and it

just flips into like a nice big juicy uterine artery then I may just go ahead and take that and do the embolization if the fellow is not scrubbed in as well so thanks a lot but they make they make many different kinds like that and more

of those are to come all right I'm you can please please please send us any other questions that you have thanks for your time and attention and enjoy the rest of the living

them so my particular area of interest is a blade of radium ization and what we'd like to do is to break the liver

down into a bunch of little tiny perfused volumes off of a single vascular pedicle or what we call angio zones and those are those allow us to segment out if you only have small volume disease for example like here in

segment three why do I have to treat the entire left to paddock low I can actually treat just that small portion just like it what it tastes only now I'm administering y9t but since it's expendable liver I

can administer doses that are way higher orders of magnitudes higher than what I could if our infusing into the liver just on its own so here's an example of that if you look at this lesion in the right of panic lobe you'll see these

little lines over them what we want to achieve is around a 205 GRA threshold for these lesions that's the red line everything that's south of red in terms of color orange Holly to blue is not cold enough to kill tumor so if we

administer a dose of a tea grade to the lobe we get this coverage which is to be a partial response if I administer 150 grey suddenly that red line gets larger what happens when you administer 400 grey now you've officially covered the

entire lesion and so you're going to lose the adjacent liver at those kind of doses and as well - what what the real question then is not sort of how much dose you give it's you give what you need to to ablate the tumor in its

entirety and you see what the patient's left with if someone's left with anatomically a lot of remnant liver because of how you've segmented out that lesion then go ahead and dose extremely high and that's essentially what we've

seen in pathologic results it's one of the highest things of high school pathological crosa rates you can achieve with a trans arterial therapy it's highly competitive with thermal ablation in the correctly selected bleezin

so this is an example of what it looks like when you segment out a little lesion like this and this patient ultimately went to resection and this was a complete pathologic necrosis but as you can see even it was a cirrhotic

patient we chose a very small volume of liver that we felt the patient would tolerate so that's a blade of vernalization let's take a look at what looks like in real time so we have a little capsular lesion we felt that

ablating this patient who was a potential transplant candidate we felt we can probably with a blade of radium realization so you go in and this is the comb beam CT that looks at a complete enhancement of the lesion within the NGO

zone this is what the MAA looks like when we administer it you can see how it tends to cluster within the tumor but you can see what the adverse territory is the liver adjacent to it this is what the engine room looks like how highly

selective it is the day of and this is what the wine ID actually looks like is the wine 90 doing its job and you can see how conformal it is there's no risk whatsoever to the liver that's adjacent outside of that field of

a maximum of around 11 millimeters and this is a patient at one month with a complete imaging response and this patient never developed a recurrent to the site and what's actually sole mode of treatment for this person's liver

cancer this is how you get complete pathologic response if you look at those little tiny grey dots in there those are actually the spheres within tiny little vessels within the tumor sometimes they go even to the portal branch but you can

see how they're not clustered uniformly but when you make them super hot that allows them to give range where otherwise they would be fine a little bit short so this also applies to the whole lobe this was a patient that had a

very unusual presentation of colon cancer that was invading the portal II we weren't sure what to do with this patient no one was because a very rare occurrence so we said well we would like

to resect him but there's not enough liver and we're not sure if this person's gonna survive because we've never seen portal cancer invading the portal vein so we said let's treat it with the radiation lobectomy and what's

cool here is if you look at the the arteries even though the tumor is invading the portal vein it's bringing arterial supply along with it like a vagabond and that's the conduit that allows us to treat these patients so

when we saw that we felt this patient we good candidate for irradiation lobectomy which is applying an ablative dose of y9t to the entire low not just a small segment in patients where otherwise cannot because of the anatomy the tumor

or if you're trying to shrink that lobe to get that person ready for surgery why because if you look at the size of the lobe on the left from this first image and compare it here you can see how much larger it got what happens is that part

that the surgeon ultimately tens on resecting in volutes over time and becomes completely vitalized and turns into scar tissue so we know that if a surgeon goes in afterwards to cut it out it's going to not result in liver

failure and that level of security allows people to have sir who otherwise wouldn't this patient is not going to have metastatic disease because we followed their blood level markers let me see how low they are and

is going to have enough liver remnant so the patient went to resection and this is the pathologic specimen and this was also a complete pathologic necrosis so I

gets pet MRIs right now our main focus are our oncology patients it helps us

determine the type of cancer they have the diagnosis of cancer assess disease progression treatment therapy and treatment planning and some antecessor treatment response so let's say a lesion is FDG avid and

has low blood perfusion that would help our physicians to us to say what kind of treatment they can give to the patient pet MRI is also good for patients who can tolerate longer scans right now it's a very young modality

there's still a lot of research goes on with this and coupled with that is advantage of research right now we actually in the Memorial sloan-kettering we have started using this instead of FDG we've used gallium 68 of to assess

neuroendocrine tumors who have also done cervical lymph Austin Tiger phim where FDG is injected directly at the patient's cervical cavity and that helps map out the lymph nodes in the survey in the pelvic area this can be used by the

surgeon and see what lymph nodes can be sampled during the surgery we provide some education and assessment before during and after the pet MRI we assess for the patient's allergies we tell the patient's they have to be NPO at least

six hours prior to FDG injection as for our anxious patients they often come pre-medicated and this just comes with some care coordination with their physician the physician would prescribe some low-dose anti-anxiety medications

and the patient would take it an hour before their test as for our claustrophobic patients we what we have done is we let them see the Machine we let we let them feel the Machine we put them inside if they would want to and it

would be up to them if they would be tolerating the scan we assess for their diabetes regimen and my refe will speak more about that later we assess for patients pregnancy status on patients loving to fifty years old process for

their breastfeeding status and screen their implants during the pet MRI we tell them about the coil placement we give them an emergency call bell and we tell them to decrease their movement well being is like although our some of

our patients would say I didn't move but then the image so differently there there's a possibility that the magnet can induce some involuntary twitching after the MRI we tell them that they can resume their

diet they can resume their diabetic diabetes regimen and as if they get MRI contrast they can pump and dump for about 24 hours after the test but if they don't get a contrast they can keep their breast milk inside the fridge just

to help to decay just to decay the isotope that was given to the patient it doesn't give any harm to the baby

patient who did not come from the street so if you've been here for a few years

you've heard me talk about you know some of my friends this is also one of my other friends who has large fibroids but her fibroids were so big and they were not all very vascular and so I sent her to have surgery and she ended up having

a hysterectomy with removal of her cervix because of abnormal pap smears but her ovaries were left in place so our path forward after doing this procedure from 1995 a procedure that is not experimental a procedure that has

had a lot a lot of research done on it more research than most procedures that are done surgically or by interventional radiologists I'd say that it would require a partnership it is true that we can see patients on our own and we can

manage mostly everything but at the end of the day uterine artery embolization is still a palliative procedure because we don't know what causes fibroids to begin with and as long as the uterus is still there there's always a chance that

new fibroids will come back so in your practice and in mind I believe that a path forward is a sustaining program embolization program which is built on a relationship with the gynecologist that yes

I am as aggressive as any other interventionist that is out there but if this were my mom and that is my usual test for things I would say that where we would like to position ourselves is in the business of informing the

patient's as much as possible so that they can make an informed decision and that we're asking our gynecology partners to do the same is that if you're going to have a hysterectomy for a benign disease that you should demand

and we as a society and you as your sisters keeper should be asking for why am I not eligible for an embolization so si R is actually embarking on a major campaign in the next year or so it's called the vision to heal campaign and

it's all around providing education for this disease stage what I like to tell our patients and I'm almost finished here is when I talk to our gynecologist and to techs and nurses as well I said woody woody what should I expect right

that's what they want to know when I send my patient to you what should I expect and I say that what you should expect that Shawn and myself we're gonna tell the patient everything about fibroids we're gonna talk to them about

what the fibroids are the pathophysiology of it the same things I told you we're gonna tell them about the procedures that treat it we tell them about the options to do nothing we talk about all of the risk and the benefits

of the procedures especially of fibroid embolization and we start the workup to see if they're an appropriate candidate when they're an appropriate candidate we communicate with them and their OBGYN and then we schedule them for their

procedure in our practice there are a few of us who send our patients home on the same day and we let our patients know no one is kicking you out of the hospital if you can't go home that day then you'll get to stay but

most of our patients are able to go home that day and then we see our patients back in clinic somewhere between two and four months three months and six months and we own that patient follow-up their visits and after their year we have them

follow back up with their gynecologist and so that we're managing all of these sites and it comes back to that new again may not be so new for some of the people that have been doing clinical IR four years that shift that we own these

patients if you're a nurse in this room these are our patients these questions need to be answered by us in our department we do not believe that these patients should be calling their gynecologist for the answers to that

like what should I be doing right now should I be taking I haven't had a bowel movement and like that is something that we answer we're the ones that are given them the discharge instructions and we set them back up for their follow-up so

patient like this you have a very large left lateral HCC that's invading the left the patek vein and extending into the heart since when we get into things like radioembolisation if you have

multifocal liver disease if you want to apply radiation therapy to that's very difficult to do that because it actually requires more radiation dose to kill HCC than it does the adjacent normal liver the liver is actually that ready

sensitive so you can do things like SBRT and pick an individual lesion you can do things like a imrt which is you know survey 8 non focus generalize low dose but what's interesting Malaysian is that if you administer

particles they only shoot about two millimeters worth of the raishin field around it so of what used is that with one not much but if you put eight to forty million of them within the bloodstream they Auto sort themselves

based off of the vascular flow preferential that exists with tumors tumors actually emit hormones pull in blood supply that you weren't born with and that actually tends to pull beads from the bloodstream preferentially

towards it so this is an example where you stain a tumor with two types of wax one the portal that's blue one the artery that's red and you can see how much that preferential exists so what ends up happening is these spheres

cluster within the tumor and then provide local dose radiation that's very hot where the tumor is and low elsewhere so here's an example of that this is a patient with metastatic neuroendocrine disease multifocal liver lesions you can

see that vascular flow preferential this is what it looks like on the maa when we jecht a protein particle surrogate that has a technician I should have assigned to it just as a visualization of how the particle is

going to sort out and the post y9t bremsstrahlung CT is over there and you can see how intense the necrosis is within the tumor and how much it's spared the normal liver however you do get some radiation damage they don't

live a regardless that's why choosing the timing of when you're gonna do this is important this is a patient that was treated with tastes above and one session of y9u beneath so you can see that they do have different types of

therapeutic mechanisms they're not the same even though they look very similar in terms of when we're administering

are there any questions yeah yes that's a really good sure so the question was do you have any rules or guidelines in my institution about how long the procedure can be before you start

talking about anesthesia versus sedation is that right and positioning prone supine we did come up with a guideline with within our department we looked at a little bit of research but honestly was more expert opinion just best

practice and experience I in in general I would say if the procedure is 3 plus hours the patient should know they're going to be on the table not asleep for three plus hours and talk to them about what that means and if they're ok with

that I just think again that comes into setting realistic expectations that's one of the reasons actually that we're very interested in using Dex med otama Dean because that's going to be a better

drug for those longer procedures first was giving functional and versed for four hours it's just not it's not appropriate but you know and some people would say we'll just get an anesthesiologist them but a lot of these

patients are really thick so in our institution anesthesia is just really super regulated and they require all of these clearances for their involvement no matter what they're giving sometimes they'll require all these clearances and

they give exactly what we were going to give so you know it's it's really a juggling act I would say in our department we really just make sure the patient knows what the expectation is and then we'll usually say to the

provider to if if something goes like if anything looks a little concerning during the case we're stopping and they have to be ok with that and they are they really are but that took a lot of work to get everybody on board with that

type of communication yeah we don't know so they I know I think Sloane is anyone here from Sloane no I think Sloane has with dedicated anesthesiologists they work really closely with them and it's easier for

them to get cases scheduled they will give us they will assign us an anesthesiologist for the day but if we don't have any anesthesia cases they get reassigned somewhere in the o.r and it's a different analysis every time it tends

to be the same group some are stricter than others some will have a patient say I really want anesthesia and we can call up the provider and there they say no problem let me do a quick chart review whereas the next day the provider goes

no absolutely not send them for clearances that's a little tricky yeah right so what I showed you is from the american society of anesthesiology i am not affiliated with them at all i just think they bide non anesthesiologist

sedation so i rely heavily on what they say and they recommend waiting till peak effects so i would look at the pharmacokinetics so for versed it's 3 to 5 minutes so i would wait at least 3 minutes before your readmit a stirring I

think a good example with that is when diazepam with the sedative of choice the on the peak effect for diazepam is 1 minute so when midazolam came onto the market there were a lot of adverse outcomes

with patients because providers administering it weren't familiar with the pharmacokinetics and assumed that the peak effect for versed was the same for diazepam so in theory you could give a patient in 5 minutes 5 milligrams of

versed so by the time that fully hits them they could be in a negative 5 on your raft scale so you know just look at those pharmacokinetics look at that peak effect and I would use that to drive your dosing scheme Atlee that's what I

do and I think since we've done that we've seen better meet info cities and better safety outcomes yes okay yeah we don't do that we do one thing with uterine fibroid embolization swear they'll do a superior mesenteric block

but otherwise we don't do any other type of regional blocks but I have read about that I think that's really are the IR providers giving the block okay right I've seen two with uterine fibroid embolization we'll do an epidural in

advance some I think some institutions or some literature exists about that it's interesting it would be interesting if the IR providers could actually give it though I'm not sure if that's kosher in the anesthesia world but they're

certainly qualified to do it they they do already kind of do it really but so I mean that's certainly something interesting and if you have a provider that is comfortable taking that on and their institution I think it's worth

looking at because anything that's sort of I think mixes things up and and provides a different Avenue especially for high-risk patients is worth looking into definitely yes I believe it yeah

mm-hm right so I'll just repeat what she said so just jumping on the talk about blocks so in her institution they the providers to administer blocks and I think you said

coleus estas Tamizh and PTC's and biliary dream placements they'll use that and it will decrease the amount of sedation that's required sedation being versed and fentanyl that's required during the case which like yes like you

said is really great for patients who are already on opioids previously and habit aller ins yes [Music] something right so we again he left same provider though had a patient on Groupon

or Fein and it was our first experience within about a year ago and it was terrible and she did not have realistic expectations going in of how sedated she would be and she was very very unhappy

afterwards so we talked a lot about that and in that guideline I had mentioned that we made about when we involve anesthesia and when we don't there's a caveat about that that says that if a patient is on

methadone or buprenorphine that a discussion needs to take place making them aware that they will probably not feel very sedated but we will try our best and if they're not comfortable with that we reschedule the procedure with

anesthesia but they have to know going into it that they they may not feel completely sedated and we just keep that open and honest communication but we haven't really come up with a scheme of what's best we did actually try with her

we had her come in one day having taken her buprenorphine the day of the procedure and she seemed okay with that and then we tried having her go off of it so that the receptors wouldn't be blocked she was not happy with that

experience so that's really when a person like that probably would do great with propofol but we can't give propofol so you know if the and if the patient tells us no then we just reschedule with the anesthesia

right - hmm right right right you could at least if they're if they're on an opioid uh if they're on people nor Fein then in theory they should respond to the verse said you could go heavier hand it on the

versed just to get them sedated but they will probably still feel pain but it they hopefully won't remember it that's true I you know with the Richmond agitation sedation scale that's not going to fit every patient that's a

really good point I gave a patient seven of versed during an adrenal vein sampling and she was just talking my ear off I got I fed are you okay you know do you need me to give you anything else no no I'm good I'm good and then I wheeled

her out we got her in the recovery area and she goes sit over I said yeah she said wow I don't I don't remember anything the power of her said that that was like a true and music effect I hadn't seen that so strongly in a

patient before but if you if I had done you know I was documenting that she was a zero it looked like I wasn't doing much for her but then I was putting comments you know patient comfortable denying needing any more sedation so

won't fit every patient so it is good to look at that but yeah as far as the buprenorphine I mean it's it's it's tough yeah if they have an addiction specialist I would say talk to them and they might be

able to come up with a scheme that works for them and if there's a lot of pain expected afterwards those patients are gonna have to be on parenteral opioid therapy they'll probably have to stay you know if you're in a hospital they

would have to stay overnight so those are all things you have to consider yeah yes hmm yeah I'm like it so Adam and Alexa are nurse practitioners that we work with and I'm looking at Adam because

this is actually was a very hot topic for us in the last six months so we actually cheat we met with our sedation committee that's run by that in a physiologist who's blocking us from using pres of X and discuss with him

that in the protocol that guides our practice it's said that you did the timeout and then gave sedation but Ari anesthesiologists don't do that right so they intubate the patient and everything and then and they and then the provider

comes in and does the timeout right before the puncture or incision so we talked about to him about how well if we're gonna do the latency to peak effect it's not enough time right so we do now bring the patient in and start

sedation right away our orders are put in in advance I know some by the attending or the Li P so we have a PRN dose and with an a certain number of occurrences and a titrate to a certain Ross scale

yes yeah so and that our anesthesiologist mentions that our providers are present but it's it's a certain use of the language I think it might be like direct observation or immediately available and our providers

are immediately available it's up to your hospital so our profit our providers aren't like down the street on their way in to work with coffee and street clothes and we're sedating they're they're just down the hall maybe

or the way our department looks is we have a control area and it's like the you know the Central Station and you can see all of the rooms so they might be in the Central Station but just haven't gone in to do the time out yet that

being said I always talk to them before I bring the patient in and say what's the goal Rath and I address any concerns that I have and I think people think I'm a little kooky when I do that for every case but it I think it works really well

and I think the providers really like it so we just already start from the Gecko our line of communication I tell them the patient seems really anxious this is my plan what do you think agree disagree yes the procedural if does the procedure

list or the Lak but I've sedated the patient so the patient if you look at what Jayco describes in the universal protocol it's ideal if they can participate in the timeout however not required because then when they do the

timeout they're right there stabbing them with lidocaine so I like to you know I mean I would argue that by starting I would argue about that by starting at the sedation earlier and getting the patient into a comfortable

state you're more safe because you're doing the dosing appropriately according to the a sa yeah correct right right right

okay I think it's important to say though it's not about getting around Joint Commission this is what Joint Commission says you may feel uncomfortable with it and that's okay

but it is what our accrediting body says is okay we're also not intimating the patient and paralyzing them like an Asst the anesthesiologist is now having said that it's not like we walk the patient in and we go oh I think you're mr. Jones

we throw you on the table there is an initial timeout that's done with the nurse and the technologist and the other people in the room shaking his head yes as so the acceptable amount of time after reversal

yes so if it happens if it happens mid procedure you need to it's I believe the language the a sa uses that you have to have a discussion amongst the care team about whether or not you're going to proceed if it happens after the

procedure in the recovery area or it happens mid procedure and you abort then it has to be at least two hours before you discharge that patient or move them back to their unit where they came from because of that recitation effect and

because you can have really adverse effects from sedation like flumazenil can cause serious delirium I had a patient like that one time it was it was awful and it can cause serious cardiac arrhythmia so at least two hours if you

continue with the procedure I would just make sure everyone knows that you have to be really careful with recitation effects and and all of the adverse effects that you'd be looking at yes I think one more question I'm sorry

with hyperkalemia I have come across I want to say it was in perioperative guidelines when I was looking at the labs that we do cuz we do a lot of unnecessary labs in our department you guys might - I feel like we just really

overdo it I believe the perioperative recommendations are to check a serum potassium if the patient has a reason to have hyperkalemia however right if their hyperkalemic and

they develop a cardiac arrhythmia you know could hypoxia also precipitate that cardiac arrhythmia the results from the hyperkalemia maybe I just went in I wouldn't take an ounce

I would I would consider hyperkalemia severe hyperkalemia and unstable patient because that patient could go into a fatal arrhythmia so I would correct that before you bring them into an elective Percy what's often an elective procedure

so if you're doing a fistula gram you know right five point yeah why are we will go up to five point eight we personally will go up to five point eight because a lot of times they're hyperkalemic

because they're fish too less clothes now and we need to open it right so just again it I don't think there's ever going to be any hard and fast data that you see it's all about making sure everyone knows this patient has a serum

potassium of five point eight we're going to be really closely watching the ECG monitoring yeah thank you everyone thank you so much [Applause]

the ablation concept in general is to provide an environment that is

completely hostile to tumor minus 40 degrees Celsius 150 degrees Celsius 500 gray which is a radiation dose we say it's very hard for it's about anything to survive but so why is it that it doesn't always work well that's a

function of all those parameters that you see there we got to make sure we pick the right patients we got to make sure that we treat tumor where we think it is and avoid trading things that don't need treatment avoid causing

damage to collateral structures and getting a reasonable margin where we actually get some of the tumor that's microscopic there are a lot of ablation modalities radiofrequency alternates electrical current very rapidly so that

generates friction within the lesion and causes heat it looks like this a lot of times you see these little times that stick out so that you can increase the size of your blasian zone and here's a one of those deployed in a patient who

had a colorectal Curren after hepatectomy cryoablation freezes things and it pushes a gas that once it goes through a pin hole tends to expand and cause rapid freezing he can also push another gas right through it and cause

rapid heating but this is just bringing tumors to that minus 20 degree minus 40 degree threshold the nice part about cryoablation is that you can visualize your ablation zone so we're right up against the bile duct here and it tends

to be a little more respectful of tissues so that's why cryoablation is chosen every once in a while we're do frequency ablation is an excellent tool we have lots of data for it but likes it sometimes it's difficult determine where

the ablation zone is interprocedural e microwave ablation there was just a randomized study that came out that compared microwave ablation to radiofrequency ablation and the results are very similar

it was a very very experienced institution doing it but the whole point here is that a lot of these tools work pretty well there's no clear superiority on them but one thing that microwave offers it's very fast so generates

temperatures to boiling within the tumor in about five minutes and so it's certainly very fast as compared to radiofrequency and you can see boiling happening within this tumor that's been accessed eventually there that gas is

actually literally fluid that is boiling away from the tumor couple of cool ones this one's reversal expiration what we do here is we place probes throughout the lesion and we pulse it to confuse the membrane on the cell to think that

it's a it has holes in it that it cannot close and so what is happening is the contents inside the cell leave and that's pretty much consistent with not being able to survive the nice part is we can accomplish all that without

thermal ablation what do we mean that we don't go over about 40 degrees Celsius so if something is involving a bile duct or involving a critical structure like the ureter it's not actually going to damage it it just basically tells all

the the cells within there to stop stop undergoing the cellular mechanisms responsible for life it's a little more finicky to place you have to place these little parallel probes here's one we did that was directly write on the

bifurcation of the main bile ducts and you can see here afterwards is an immediate post contrast scan how that whole area is ablative it does not take up contrast and this patient never developed biliary strictures that side

to talk about is indirect angiography this is kind of a neat trick to suggest to your intervention list as a problem solver we were asked to ablate this lesion and it looked kind of funny this patient had a resection for HCC they

thought this was a recurrence so we bring the comb beam CT and we do an angio and it doesn't enhance so this is an image here of indirect port ography so what you can do is an SMA run and see at which point along the

run do you pacify the portal vein and you just set up your cone beam CT for that time so you just repeat your injection and now your pacifying the entire portal vein even though you haven't selected it and what to show

well this was a portal aneurysm after resection with a little bit of clot in it the patient went on some aspirin and it resolved in three months so back to our first patient what do you do for someone who has HCC that's invading the

heart this patient underwent 2y 90s bland embolization microwave ablation chemotherapy and SBRT and he's an eight-year survivor so it's one of those things where certainly with the correct patient selection you can find the right

things to do for someone I think that usually our best results come from our interdisciplinary consensus in terms of trying to use the unique advantages that individual therapies have and IO is just one of those but this is an important

lesson to our whole group that you know a lot of times you get your best results when you use things like a team approach so in summary there are applications to IO prior to surgery to make people surgical candidates there are definitive

treatments ie your cancer will be treated definitively with curative intent a lot of times we can save when people have tried cure intent and weren't able to and obviously to palliate folks to try to buy them time

and quality of life thermal ablation is safe and effective for small lesions but it's limited by the adjacent anatomy y9t is not an ischemic therapy it's an ablative therapy you're putting small ablative radioactive particles within

the lesion and just using the blood supply as a conduit for your brachytherapy and you can use this as a new admin application to make people safer surgical candidates when you apply to the entire ride a panic globe

thanks everyone appreciate it [Applause] [Music]

do we care about carotid occlusive disease why is it such a big deal stroke is a major factor obviously stroke is the third leading cause of death 750-thousand approaching a million

strokes a year and it's a leading cause even if you survive the stroke of disability majority of these are ischemic and not bleeding or hemorrhagic strokes and a lot of them a significant number of the ischemic strokes reside or

source from carotid disease so the carotid is the issue in those patients and the stroke risk in those patients is as ultimately related to the degree of stenosis that they have or narrowing that they have at the carotid and do

they have any history of neurologic symptoms that determines if they're symptomatic or asymptomatic so you could have a critically narrowed lesion but have zero symptoms that's asymptomatic and you can have a

less significant so no --ss not 99% but say 70% but you have some symptoms you're getting blindness intermittently or or intermittent numbness in your hands and that's symptomatic right and with

that that's a much more worrisome sign in the setting of that even though milder stenosis so what is the you know the importance of this is for us to be able to to determine which patients who we would be treating or not so we're all

a little bit more systemic versus catheter directed thrombolysis so once you've decided that a patient needs TPA what are the differences here well if

you give patients systemic TPA you're gonna give them a much more rapid delivery this is for those patients who have high-risk PE they're the ones who are coding for those patients you give them 200 milligrams of IV usually you

get 50 first and then another 150 over a very short time period they have a very high risk of bleeding as a result of that a catheter is much slower you're gonna infuse one milligram maybe which is what I think most people do

over several hours maybe a few maybe a day so it's slower targeted versus non targeted well catheter is much more targeted you're gonna give Pete you're gonna give the TPA right into the

pulmonary arteries that's the whole point in our in our thought process as a result you give a lot less drug so when you give a patient based off of some of the trials 24 milligrams of TPA over a 24-hour period that's a lot less than

200 milligrams in a 10 minute period and then the bleeding risk is very different for these patients catheter based treatments have a high bleeding risk but it's possibly lower than the initial bleeding risk of patients getting

systemic TPA so I wanted to go through a

patients may be asking you is like what about adenomyosis and I've been hearing something about that which is not exactly fibroids right it's a different entity though the symptoms could be kind of the same and for the years and years

and years we wouldn't have any options for patients who had adenomyosis in fact the only option for patients with adenomyosis is surgery but adenomyosis can coexist with fibroids and sometimes patient presents with adenomyosis alone

so we've had some studies now that have looked at that and although the data is not as robust and not as awesome as for patients with fibroids we do provide a performing bolas Asian for those patients with particles that are little

smaller than what we would use for fibroids with results as you're seen there before now the only other new thing that's on the market and it's not so new to you guys that are probably doing radial in femorals anyway working

in cardiac labs and IR labs it's actually what we call the trophy if you go back one slide for me mr. a the person and press play then we will be able to see that radial access I do not work for Merritt they don't give me a

dime I just thought that this was a good video is there volume on that at all if not I can just talk about it and really what it says is that if you need to a radial UFE or have radial axis for a uterine embolization patients just love

it more they and especially like patients that are already just intimidated they don't want you going near their groins at all they actually could just lay on the table we don't have to put up we don't put a Foley in

they just get a radial access the same way that you would just be starting in a line except we have special types of radial catheters and and sheaves to do that and I don't offer a radial access to

patients who are too tall for our catheters or if they've had multiple prior radial access and don't have an intact ulnar artery to complete their hand but it's much like any of that femoral access that you would normally

see they make special hydrophilic sheaths now they're called from this particular company slender technology where the inner diameter of the sheath essentially the sheath is the same like five French on the outside but they have

cored out the inside so it's a bigger diameter so it's a five six so on the outside it's a five but it will take a six French in the inner inner lumen and you know my practice we do more than 80% of all our arterial punctures with a

radial access and everybody here comes dr. Sean Deroche Nia who is the leading author of that paper for SI R and one of my esteemed partners so most patients are able to get up and walk out if you are go from a radial access the access

is actually closed with just a radial band and the complications of having a hematoma or having the patient's bleed out those just all go away but radial axis have their own complications so I'm not here to say that it is not that but

in our practice we found it to be safe and effective our patients want it and it's become like a practice differentiator so if you're working in a practice that don't do radial you EFI's right now you should mention it because

if you're in a population where the other providers are only doing femoral then you will automatically get the patients that only want that so here's a patient that had a radial access you can see a catheter that is coming from the

aorta while you can't see that it's not up and over the bifurcation but maybe you do can see that and there's a catheter in the uterine artery with the characteristic

shape of the uterine artery and the characteristic curlicue vessels of of the fibroid and on the left you can see the Imogen for beforehand and the Imogen on the right of post embolization where there is stagnant flow in the main

uterine not main uterine artery in the horizontal portion of the uterine artery for greater than five cardiac beads and again there's there's no reason that you have to know that level of detail except that you're scrubbing in but if you're

in the audience you're looking at this you're like dr. Newsome I see an air bubble there as well then I'd say good because because I do see it too so you can see the preimage and you can see the post image for pre and post embolization

these these procedures can be quick these procedures are very very rewarding and and I love to do it

so just a compliment what we everybody's talked about I think a great introduction for diagnosing PID the imaging techniques to evaluate it some of the Loney I want to talk about some of the above knee interventions no disclosures when it sort of jumped into

a little bit there's a 58 year old male who has a focal non-healing where the right heel now interestingly we when he was referred to me he was referred to for me for a woman that they kept emphasizing at the anterior end going

down the medial aspect of the heel so when I literally looked at that that was really a venous stasis wound so he has a mixed wound and everybody was jumping on that wound but his hour till wound was this this right heel rudra category-five

his risk factors again we talked about diabetes being a large one that in tandem with smoking I think are the biggest risk factors that I see most patient patients with wounds having just as we talked about earlier we I started

with a non-invasive you can see on the left side this is the abnormal side the I'm sorry the right leg is the abnormal the left leg is the normal side so you can see the triphasic waveforms the multiphasic waveforms on the left the

monophasic waveforms immediately at the right I don't typically do a lot of cross-sectional imaging I think a lot of information can be obtained just from the non-invasive just from this the first thing going through my head is he

has some sort of inflow disease with it that's iliac or common I'll typically follow within our child duplex to really localize the disease and carry out my treatment I think a quick comment on a little bit of clinicals so these

waveforms will correlate with your your Honourable pencil Doppler so one thing I always emphasize with our staff is when they do do those audible physical exams don't tell me whether there's simply a Doppler waveform or a Doppler pulse I

don't really care if there's not that means their leg would fall off what I care about is if monophasic was at least multiphasic that actually tells me a lot it tells me a lot afterwards if we gain back that multiphase the city but again

looking at this a couple of things I can tell he has disease high on the right says points we can either go PITA we can go antegrade with no contralateral in this case I'll be since he has hide he's used to the right go contralateral to

the left comment come on over so here's the angio I know NGOs are difficult Aaron when there's no background so just for reference I provided some of the anatomy so this is the right you know groin area

right femur so the right common from artery and SFA you have a downward down to the knee so here's the pop so if we look at this he has Multi multi multiple areas of disease I would say that patients that have above knee disease

that have wounds either have to level disease meaning you have iliac and fem-pop or they at least have to have to heal disease typically one level disease will really be clot against again another emphasis a lot of these patients

since they're not very mobile they're not very ambulatory this these patients often come with first a wound or rest pain so is this is a patient was that example anyway so what we see again is the multifocal occlusions asta knows

he's common femoral origin a common femoral artery sfa origin proximal segment we have a occlusion at the distal sfa so about right here past the air-duct iratus plus another occlusion at the mid pop to talk about just again

the tandem disease baloney he also has a posterior tibial occlusion we talked about the fact that angio some concept so even if I treat all of this above I have to go after that posterior tibial to get to that heel wound and complement

the perineal so ways to reach analyze you know the the biggest obstacle here is on to the the occlusions i want to mention some of the devices out there I'm not trying to get in detail but just to make it reader where you know there's

the baiance catheter from atronics essentially like a little metal drill it wobbles and tries to find the path of least resistance to get through the occlusion the cross or device from bard is a device that is essentially or what

I call is a frakking device they're examples they'll take a little peppermint they'll sort of tap away don't roll the hole peppermint so it's like a fracking device essentially it's a water jet

that's pulse hammering and then but but to be honest I think the most effective method is traditional wire work sorry about that there are multiple you know you're probably aware of just CTO wires multi weighted different gramm wires 12

gram 20 gram 30 gram wires I tend to start low and go high so I'll start with the 12 gram uses supporting micro catheter like a cxi micro catheter a trailblazer and a B cross so to look at here the sheath I've placed a sheet that

goes into the SFA I'm attacking the two occlusions first the what I used is the micro catheter about an 1/8 micro catheter when the supporting my catheters started with a trailblazer down into the crossing the first

occlusion here the first NGO just shows up confirmed that I'm still luminal right I want to state luminal once I've crossed that first I've now gone and attacked the second occlusion across that occlusion so once I've cross that

up confirm that I'm luminal and then the second question is what do you want to do with that there's gonna be a lot of discussions on whether you want Stan's direct me that can be hold hold on debate but I think a couple of things we

can agree we're crossing their courageous we're at the pop if we can minimize standing that region that be beneficial so for after ectomy couple of flavors there's the hawk device which

essentially has a little cutter asymmetrical cutter that allows you to actually shave that plaque and collect that plaque out there's also a horrible out there device that from CSI the dime back it's used to sort of really sort of

like a plaque modifier and softened down that plaque art so in this case I've used this the hawk device the hawk has a little bit of a of a bend in the proximal aspect of the catheter that lets you bias the the device to shape

the plaque so here what I've done you there you can see the the the the the teeth itself so you can tell we're lateral muta Liz or right or left is but it's very hard to see did some what's AP and posterior so usually

what I do is I hop left and right I turned the I about 45 degrees and now to hawk AP posterior I'm again just talking left to right so I can always see where the the the the AP ended so I can always tell without the the teeth

are angioplasty and then here once I'm done Joan nice caliber restored flow restored then we attacked the the common for most enosis and sfa stenosis again having that device be able to to an to direct

that device allows me to avoid sensing at the common femoral the the plaque is resolved from the common femoral I then turn it and then attack the the plaque on the lateral aspect again angioplasty restore flow into the common firm on the

proximal SFA so that was the there's the plaque that you can actually obtain from that Hawk so you're physically removing that that plaque so so that's you know that's the the restoration that flow just just you know I did attack the

posterior tibial I can cross that area I use the diamond back for that balloon did open it up second case is a woman

I want this to be as instructive as possible I do have some multiple-choice questions that are peppered in there and hopefully you guys feel comfortable enough to shout out answers I really don't care if you get it right or wrong so but if I teach it right I hope it's

clear what the answers are okay so and and I know the title test says that I'm going to be talking about parts frankly I think there's a lot more to talk about about PE other than parts and I'm not going to be emphasizing that

but if there's time to ask questions or I'm happy to speak about that as well because I think the disease and the treatments are really the crux of PE at this point okay so I start with something called the landscape where are

we with pulmonary embolism well you know I don't know how many of you have seen PE in the IR suite or have dealt with these patients or even have friends or family that have had a PE but I don't think anybody who's interacted with this

disease would argue with the fact that PE is a big deal why do I say that statistically speaking well there are 900 000 VTE events per year that's DVT or PE that's a lot it's almost a million now the number of deaths from PE every

years quoted to be as high as 300 000 but is around 60 150 is what we think so quite a few this affects everybody you know you might have heard of Serena Williams getting a PE Chris Bosh and Serena Williams I think had a massive PE

which I'll tell you the definition of that later but it's a it's it's something that can affect a young person and kill that young person so that's what makes it a little bit tougher than some of the other diseases it's the

third most common cause of cardiovascular death stroke mi then PE ten percent are fatal within the first hour so a lot of these patients you're not even gonna see and when you do see them you've got a big task ahead of you

because they're you're trying to rescue them from death that's basically the same statistic now if you were to take every patient who comes into the hospital and you put an echocardiogram on them and you looked at the right

ventricle their right ventricle would show some evidence of dysfunction and so that's an interesting statistic because right ventricular dysfunction is you'll see on a subsequent slide is actually a pretty big deal and is actually at the

crux the pathophysiology of PE now if you were to do a VQ scan around six months after people got a PE you would find that 1/3 of those patients actually have residual thrombus so we think that you

know PE is a acute disease but what we're finding is that it's actually a cute disease that can become chronic and a lot of people and we're actually revealing unveiling the fact that maybe a year or two years after their PE these

patients aren't doing as well as we thought so that this is a burden it's a chronic it's a chronic disease that causes a burden on their lives so this is the disease and and you know as an IR you look at this and you say well that's

pretty exciting looks like we can intervene on something meaningfully but there are some caveats we should remember first most patients have low risk PE s I'll define that in a little bit but these patients don't need an

intervention they just need anticoagulation to the best of our knowledge that says all this this group needs sub massive PE I'll spend quite a bit of time on and it's a very controversial topic and there's a

lot of different attitudes between interventionalists and non interventionists about sub massive PE when you get a massive PE patient this is the patient that's crashing and burning most of them should receive

systemic thrombolysis which is an IV in the arm and a drug through their vein it's the fastest thing you can do and it doesn't involve corralling an IR suite the team for the IR suite or a surgical team and as I just said there's a wide

range of attitudes regarding treatment aggressiveness so I'm not going to go

know we're running a bit short on time so I want to briefly just touch about

some techniques with comb beam CT which are very helpful to us there are a lot of reasons why you should use comb beam CT it gives us the the most extensive anatomic understanding of vascular territories and the implications for

that with oncology are extremely valuable because of things like margin like we discussed here's an example of a patient who had a high AF P and their bloodstream which tells us that they have a cancer in her liver we can't see

it on the CT there but if you do a cone beam CT it stands up quite nicely why because you're giving levels of contrast that if you were to give them through a peripheral IV it would be toxic to the patient but when you're infusing into a

segment the body tolerates at the problem so patient preparation anxa lysis is key you have them exhale above three seconds prior to that there's a lot of change to how we're doing this people who are introducing radial access

power injection anywhere from about 50 to even sometimes thirty to a hundred percent contrast depends on what phase you're imaging we have a Animoto power injector that allows us to slide what contrast concentration we like a lot of

times people just rely on 30% and do their whole the case with that some people do a hundred percent image quality this is what it looks like when someone's breathing this is very difficult to tell if there's complete

lesion enhancement so if you do your comb beam CT know it looks like this this is trying to coach the patient and try to get them to hold still and then this is the patient after coaching which looks like this so you can tell that you

have a missing portion of the lesion and you have to treat into another segment what about when you're doing an angio and you do a cone beam CT NIT looks like this this is what insufficient counts looks like on comb beam so when you see

these sort of Shell station lines that are going all over the screen you have to raise dose usually in larger patients but this is you know you either slow down the acquisition speed of your comb beam or

you raise dose this is what it looks like after we gave it a higher dose protocol it really changes everything those lines are still there but they're much smaller how do you know if you have enhancement or a narrow artifact you can

repeat with non-contrast CT and give the patient glucagon and you can find the small very these small arteries that pick off the left that commonly profuse the stomach the right gastric artery you can use your comb beam CT to find

non-target evaluation even when your angio doesn't suggest it so this is a patient they have recurrent HCC we didn't angio from here those arteries down there where those coils were looked funny even though the patient was

quote-unquote coiled off we did a comb beam CT and that little squiggly C shape structures that duodenum that's contrast going in it this would be probably a lethal event for the patient or certainly would require surgery if you

treated that much with y9t reposition the catheter deeper towards the lesion and you can repeat your comb beam CT and see that you don't have an hands minh sometimes you have these little accessory left gastric artery this is

where we really need your help you know a lot of times everyone's focused and I think the more eyes the better for these kind of things but we're looking for these little tiny vessels that sometimes hop out of the liver and back into the

stomach or up into the esophagus there's a very very small right gastric artery in this picture here this patient post hepatectomy that rides along the inferior surface of the liver it's a little curly cube so and this is a small

esophageal branch so when you do comb beam TT this is what the stomach looks like when it enhances and this is what the esophagus looks like when it enhances you can do non contrast comb beam CTS to confirm ablation so you have

a lesion this is the comb beam CT for enhancement you treat with your embolic and this is a post to determine that you've had completely shin coverage and you can see how that correlates a response so the last thing we're going

they travel together so that's what leads to the increased pain and sensitivity so in the knee there have been studies like 2015 we published that study on 13 patients with 24 month follow-up for knee embolization for

bleeding which you may have seen very commonly in your institution but dr. Okun Oh in 2015 published that article on the bottom left 14 patients where he did embolization in the knee for people with arthritis he actually used an

antibiotic not imposing EMBO sphere and any other particle he did use embolus for in a couple patients sorry EMBO zine in a couple of patients but mainly used in antibiotic so many of you know if antibiotics are like crystalline

substances they're like salt so you can't inject them in arteries that's why I have to go into IVs so they use this in Japan to inject and then dissolve so they go into the artery they dissolve and they're resorbable so they cause a

like a light and Baalak effect and then they go away he found that these patients had a decrease in pain after doing knee embolization subsequently he published a paper on 72 patients 95 needs in which he had an

excellent clinical success clinical success was defined as a greater than 50% reduction in knee pain so they had more than 50% reduction in knee pain in 86 percent of the patients at two years 79 percent of these patients still had

knee pain relief that's very impressive results for a procedure which basically takes in about 45 minutes to an hour so we designed a u.s. clinical study we got an investigational device exemption actually Julie's our clinical research

coordinator for this study and these are the inclusion exclusion criteria we basically excluded patients who have rheumatoid arthritis previous surgery and you had to have moderate or severe pain so greater than 50 means basically

greater than five out of ten on a pain scale we use a pain scale of 0 to 100 because it allows you to delineate pain a little bit better and you had to be refractory to something so you had to fail medications injections

radiofrequency ablation you had to fail some other treatment we followed these patients for six months and we got x-rays and MRIs before and then we got MRIs at one month to assess for if there was any non-target embolization likes a

bone infarct after this procedure these are the clinical scales we use to assess they're not really so important as much as it is we're trying to track pain and we're trying to check disability so one is the VA s or visual analog score and

on right is the Womack scale so patients fill this out and you can assess how disabled they are from their knee pain it assesses their function their stiffness and their pain it's a little

bit limiting because of course most patients have bilateral knee pain so we try and assess someone's function and you've improved one knee sometimes them walking up a flight of stairs may not improve significantly but their pain may

improve significantly in that knee when we did our patients these were the baseline demographics and our patients the average age was 65 and you see here the average BMI in our patients is 35 so this is on board or class 1 class 2

obesity if you look at the Japanese study the BMI in that patient that doctor okano had published the average BMI and their patient population was 25 so it gives you a big difference in the patient population we're treating and

that may impact their results how do we actually do the procedure so we palpate the knee and we feel for where the pain is so that's why we have these blue circles on there so we basically palpate the knee and figure

out is the pain medial lateral superior inferior and then we target those two Nicollet arteries and as depicted on this image there are basically 6 to Nicollet arteries that we look for 3 on the medial side 3 on the lateral side

once we know where they have pain we only go there so we're not going to treat the whole knee so people come in and say my whole knee hurts they're not really going to be a good candidate for this procedure you want focal synovitis

or inflammation which is what we're looking for and most people have medial and Lee pain but there are a small subset of patients of lateral pain so this is an example patient from our study says patient had an MRI beforehand

blasian it's well tolerated and folks with advanced pulmonary disease there's a prospective trial that showed that

there are pulmonary function does not really change after an ablation but the important part here is a lot of these folks who are not candidates for surgical resection have bad hearts a bad coronary disease and bad lungs to where

a lot of times that's actually their biggest risk not their small little lung cancer and you can see these two lines here the this is someone who dr. du Puy studied ablation and what happens if you recur and how your survival matches that

and turns out that if you recur and in if you don't actually a lot of times this file is very similar because these folks are such high risk for mortality outside or even their cancer so patient selection is really important for this

where do we use it primary metastatic lesions essentially once we feel that someone is not a good surgical candidate and they have maintained pulmonary function they have a reasonable chance for surviving a long

time we'll convert them to being an ablation candidate here's an example of a young woman who had a metastatic colorectal met that was treated with SPRT and it continued to grow and was avid so you can see the little nodule

and then the lower lobe and we paste the placement prone and we'd Vance a cryo plugs in this case of microwave probe into it and you turn off about three to five minutes and it's usually sufficient to burn it it cavitate s-- afterwards

which is expected but if you follow it over time the lesion looks like this and you say okay fine did it even work but if you do a PET scan you'll see that there's no actually activity in there and that's usually pretty definitive for

those small lesions like that about three centimeters is the most that will treat in a lot of the most attic patients but you can certainly go a little bit larger here's her follow-up actually two years

that had no recurrence so what do you do when you have something like this so this is encasing the entire left upper lobe this patient underwent radiation therapy had a low area of residual activity we followed it and it turns out

that ended up being positive on a biopsy for additional cancer so now we're playing cleanup which is that Salvage I mentioned earlier we actually fuse the PET scan with the on table procedural CT so we know which part of all that

consolidated lung to target we place our probes and this is what looks like afterwards it's a big hole this is what happens when you microwave a blade previously radiated tissue having said that this

was a young patient who had no other options and this is the only side of disease this is probably an okay complication for that patient to undergo so if you follow up with a PET scan three months later there's no residual

activity and that patient actually never recurred at that site so what about

establish our guidelines this was something this was a question that we got when we did publish our journal article because you'll see when you do

see our guidelines we are not 100% in alignment with SAR that is because we used SAR in a detailed literature review and examined both of those sources but then we also have our own homegrown radiology database our nurses are

instrumental in collecting this data every biopsy patient we collect their medication list as well as their current lab values we've been doing this since 2002 and we currently have over 50 000 patients within that database so we pull

from that database to identify what is best what trends are we seeing what medications are we seeing that are causing issue in our practice so we're taking from our own clinical expertise and then we also have a great panel

within Mayo Clinic it's called ask me Oh expert this panel is made up of multiple physicians we have physicians from Department of Laboratory Medicine physicians from our anticoagulation practices we have our liver physicians

can need lots of different doctors we have two radiologists that also sit on that committee so it's a combined specialty panel so we take we took into consideration all of these factors to establish our guidelines our nurses use

these guidelines when they are performing pre-procedure phone calls so I love to the presentation yesterday from Johns Hopkins I believe where they're doing pre procedure phone calls but often times a whole week before we

don't have that yet but I would love to get to that point but right now our nurses are doing pre procedure phone calls within a few days prior to a patient's procedure and we are going through these guidelines to identify

what medication or risk factors these patients have and we're alerting our radiologists to see if there's any type of considerations that we may need to take if for example a patient has not stopped warfarin and

then they also look for if within our guidelines the patient needs lab values we determine if there's lot values ordered or if they have any within the medical record we want them within 30 days except for if the patient has known

or suspected liver disease we do want them more recently within 14 days or if a patient's on chemotherapy or one of those anti antagonists this is something I really need to stress to our nurses and I think I've gotten the point across

to you that these are guidelines only clinical decisions are made by the supervising radiologist so we've we've put this right in all of our guidelines in that yes these are guidelines that we can use those nurses to help triage our

patients and move and streamline our assessment process but sometimes it does further critical thinking and then discussion you want to go into what you

different applications renal ablation is very common when do we use it

high surgical risk patients primary metastatic lesions some folks are actually refused surgery nowadays and saying I'll have a one centimeter reno lesion actually want this in lieu of surgery people have

familial syndromes they're prone to getting a renal cancer again so we're trying to preserve renal tissue it is the most renal parenchymal sparing modality and obviously have a single kidney and a lot of these are found

incidentally when they're getting a CT scan for something else here's a very sizable one the patient that has a cardiomyopathy can see how big the heart is so it's you know seven centimeter lesion off of the left to superior pole

against the spleen this patient wouldn't have tolerated bleeding very much so we went ahead and embolized it beforehand using alcohol in the pide all in a coil and this is what it looks like when you have all those individual ice probes all

set up within the lesion and you can see the ice forming around I don't know how well it projects but in real time you can determine if you've developed your margin we do encompass little bit of spleen with that and you can see here

that you have a faint rim surrounding that lesion right next to the spleen and that's the necrotic fat that's how you know that you got it all and just this ablation alone caused a very reactive pleural

effusion that you can see up on the CT over there so imagine how this patient would have tolerated surgery pulmonary

after having these two cases one in our institution and one at University of North Carolina Chapel Hill that we would then basically upsize our particles to

100 micron and we have not seen that and we're doing a second clinical study and I'm not seeing that as either we had about a 70% reduction in pain so if you look at our visual analog score out to six months and if you look at our

disability it actually paralleled this exactly which is pretty impressive considering mostly patients had bilateral knee pain so out to six months very good results 90% of patients were responders so two

out of our twenty patients did not really respond one patient didn't respond at his one-month follow-up but did respond at his three and six so I still consider him a clinical failure because we expect

these patients to respond by one month here's just an example of a baseline MRI before and after and you can see all that joint effusion there the white that decreases just even after a month how much it decreases and we looked at this

in terms of synovial thickness and distension and even on MRI you can object objectively count calculate synovitis scores and we calculated that they actually statistically decreased this is another patient on the left the

image shows diffuse white enhancement if you will of the synovium of the lining on the right it shows the fluid this is an image just of embolization and I show this image because it's really shocking and this is actually one of our nurses

who's enrolled in a clinical study is this is before this is all we did we embolized the medial aspect of the knee this is one month later 30 days in fact somebody just asked me this when I was in the booth over at the meeting across

the street and basically I said listen I don't know why this happened so quickly I have no idea we didn't tap renu-it into anything else if you look at this premium post it's pretty dramatic so clearly there's an inflammatory process

that we are arresting or stopping in such a short period of time so is there a future for this I don't know it may just we may just fall down and find out that there really is in a great future but so far we know it's at least

technically successful it's the results are positive in the short term long term we're not so sure yet we do need to better understand these risks and I think in my opinion in the long term it'll probably be really really good for

this 40 to 65 year old patient population who's not yet ready for knee replacement surgery this is the algorithm for our clinical study which were almost done enrolling right now it's a randomized control study against

placebo so it's two to one randomization which means one third of the patients actually get a sham procedure so we do an angiogram on their leg they're asleep they have no idea for embolizing they're genetical it arteries or not we wake

them up I think about the table and we follow them up if they're no better they're allowed to cross over and get the treatment the other 2/3 of the

so who are the most ideal candidates for fibroid embolization obviously I would say the most ideal candidates are patients that are symptomatic and I've told you already that 80% of black women

have fibroids but guess what only half of those will be so symptomatic that they would need to be even treated so just because fibroids exist don't mean that they need to actually be treated already so you

to actually have symptoms most patients that are symptomatic will again wait to getting treatment for like three and a half to five years but when they come we want to make sure that they're symptomatic and that they're not trying

to become pregnant and I know somebody in the audience has a question around that already so let's hold your high horses I'm coming to that how about patients that don't want to have surgery or just don't have time to

have surgery they don't have time for long recovery if you don't care if you have your uterus or not then I'm not so sure that you need to be pursuing a uterine sparing procedure okay and I'm gonna pause here to address one other

thing that it's a myth it is a myth that if you do not need to have children then you do not need your uterus I beg to differ and when we talk to women they are quite upset about this preposition that the uterus is only there for

baby-making purposes in fact there have been several studies now that have come out to say that women that have had early hysterectomy even with their ovaries in place are predisposed to coronary artery disease or

cardiovascular events we would like patients that are poor surgical candidates because if they can have surgery then they may be able to have surgery or patients that do not desire future fertility patients that have

already concerns about hysterectomy because of religious reasons or don't want to have hormonal therapy and I actually like patients that have have a have obesity because if we are able to do this procedure then they're spared

more complications related to surgery so the ideal patient then and this is a very important point said all three criteria would need to be fit that if you're a patient in order to be offered embolization number one

you have to have fibroids believe it or not you have to have symptoms that are related to fibroids and then you have to have some MRI that says that the location of where your fiber it is is causing that symptom and that these

fibroids are vascular let me explain okay and I'm going to skip this so I've been working with people for a long enough time and I've work of Julie for years I've worked with Diane and Anna and some other people for like ten years

and imagine if you're working with me for ten years you know that you're probably going to be able to do this procedure too like you're scrubbing right next to me eventually like you pick these things up what I get paid for

is not to do that and for the experienced nurses and techs that are in the room you know exactly what I'm talking about you're better than the doctors half of the time you really could do this procedure but what I get

paid for is to decide who does not even get to come on the table to get this procedure done so pay attention to this slide and these this criteria is being challenged every day and we're getting more and more data to say that this is

old information that we used to say if the uterus was like more than six months then you probably shouldn't have a uterine sparing procedure but we know that we do in embolization all the time in patients that have large fibroids

anyway but there's no data to actually give us that information most of the trials that we have and we have had a lot of them they have excluded patients where their individual fibroids were greater than 12 centimeters if you have

had an indeterminate and de metrio biopsy or you're having abnormal pap smear doing a uterine sparing procedure makes no sense so we use these imaging to really help us to determine which patients really

deserve to be treated so everybody can see that that image on the Left where it says submucosal refers to and I'm gonna try and come down so I can see these images here and you can see that there is a fibroid that is in

truck hava teri do you see that that round thing that is surrounded by the white fluid that is someone that has what we would call a type zero fibroid completely within the unit of course this is going to cause bleeding but

should this person have a uterine artery embolization or a hysterectomy Gail no this patient should have like hysteroscopic resection like a D&C and they would just scrape that thing out and then their symptoms would go away or

the patient on the right that has a normal appearing uterus and then this pedunculated gigantic thing that has bled into itself that is like a sub serosa fibroid of the extreme just hanging off on the outside now should

this patient have embolization no someone can tie a string right at that little connection and take that thing out so using our imaging to help us to decide which patients should be treated is very important or this patient who

came with Oh dr. Newsome I've been bleeding for 10 weeks in a row I have reversed cycles I have bulk I have bladder symptoms and yet they have that little dot that little black thing there that little dot

at the top that is the only place where there's a fibroid so this patient should not be a candidate for embolization either because yes they have symptoms and they have that little tiny daughter for fibra but that is not what's causing

those symptoms so it is important that we're not doing procedures on patients just because we can but because we're using our imaging and the patient's symptom to decide which patients are the best candidates for these procedures

we're gonna move on to embolization there a couple different categories of embolization bland embolization is when

you just administering something that is choking off the blood supply to the tumor and that's how it's going to exert its effect here's a patient with a very large metastatic renal cell lesion to the humerus this is it on MRI this is it

per angiogram and this patient was opposed to undergo resection so we bland embolized it to reduce bleeding and I chose this one here because we used sequentially sized particles ranging from 100 to 200 all

the way up to 700 and you can actually if you look closely can see sort of beads stacked up in the vessel but that's all that it's doing it's just reducing the blood supply basically creating a stroke within the tumor that

works a fair amount of time and actually an HCC some folks believe that it were very similar to keep embolization which is where at you're administering a chemo embolic agent that is either l'p hi doll with the chemo agent suspended within it

or drug eluting beads the the Chinese have done some randomized studies on whether or not you can also put alcohol in the pie at all and that's something we've adopted in our practice too so anything that essentially is a chemical

outside of a bland agent can be considered a key mobilization so here's a large segment eight HCC we've all been here before we'll be seeing common femoral angiogram a selective celiac run you can make sure

the portals open in that segment find the anterior division pedicle it's going to it select it and this is after drug living bead embolization so this is a nice immediate response at one month a little bit of gas that's expected to be

within there however this patient had a 70% necrosis so it wasn't actually complete cell death and the reason is it's very hard to get to the absolute periphery of the blood supply to the tumor it is able to rehab just like a

stroke can rehab from collateral blood supply so what happens when you have a lesion like this one it's kind of right next to the cod a little bit difficult to see I can't see with ultrasound or CT well you can go in and tag it with lip

Idol and it's much more conspicuous you can perform what we call dual therapy or combination therapy where you perform a microwave ablation you can see the gas leaving the tumor and this is what it looks like afterwards this patient went

to transplant and this was a complete pathologic necrosis so you do need the concept of something that's ablative very frequently to achieve that complete pathologic necrosis rates very hard to do that with ischemia or chemotherapy

alone so what do you do we have a

guys do so when we do our screening phone calls and our pre screens before

the actual procedure there's a few factors that we look at for the patients with blood pressure the patient needs to be vitally stable before we do a procedure there may be a slightly increased risk of bleeding for kidney

biopsy if patients are hypertensive although it hasn't been noted to be statistically significant in the literature so we are always aware of patients being hypertensive we do want them to be taking their medications the

day of the procedure we also do a full medication reconciliation with the patient making sure that we're checking on any anti platelets anticoagulant medications and we have a list of our hold times that we use for a reference

we already discussed for those of you who are at this session this morning the issue of liver disease is it stable liver disease they may have adequate he stasis even though their INR is not within the normal range and so we

recommend a stable INR of less than 2.5 for those patients and in our practice a lot of the providers are going away from correcting the INR s for our patients we also screen for hematological disorders do they have some known condition that

makes them more likely to bleed or conversely more likely to clot and that may factor into whether or not anticoagulation can be held do they have a current diagnosis of cancer are they going to be getting one of those

angiogenesis inhibitors might they have thrombocytopenia and we just do a brief review of the patient's chart before we call them to kind of look for those diagnoses do they have a history of bleeding especially if they have no one

platelet dysfunction you know a known history of bleeding can be a reliable predictor of bleeding risk for some patients and do they have a cardiac or a neurological history as we learned this morning patients that have recently had

a cardiac stent placed we can't just say yeah stop your plavix hold off 5 days it'll be fine that could be a very serious risk to the patient did they recently have a stroke have they had a PE why are they on their anticoagulation

if they're on it so we really need to be aware of the whole patient and having that pre-screening phone call with them can allow our nurses to figure out a lot of these problems and then alert the radiologists and try and troubleshoot

before the patient walks in the door and says yeah I took my warfarin this morning I'm all ready for my liver biopsy the radiologists don't like that much in it you know it's really a bad thing for our high volume area to have

that happen and this is just another chart of our oh did I get mixed up here you guys are gonna fire me from running this clicker there we go so the whole times are again based on the half-life and the mechanism of action and this is

pretty similar to what you saw in the the presentation earlier today and specifically that imbruvica that's something that we alert the radiologists who they have a discussion with the patient decide is this something that we

want to continue with and I will say that in our practice with the volume and the the level of acuity of our patients I think that a lot of our providers are fairly comfortable with a certain level of risk because that's just who our

patient population is you know we have a very large hospital two large hospitals and very sick patients so that's something that we you know some of them are more comfortable than others but it's a risk-benefit thing that they have

to decide on themselves with the patient obviously all right so here are our

about massive PE so let's remember this slide 25 to 65 percent mortality what do we do with this what's our goal what's

our role as interventionalists here well we need to rescue these patients from death you know this it's a coin flip that they're going to die we need to really that there's only one job we have is to save this person's life get them

out of that vicious cycle get more blood into the left ventricle and get their systemic blood pressure up what are our tools systemic thrombolysis at the top catherine directed therapy at the right and surgical level that what

unblocked me at the left as I said before the easiest thing to do is put an IV in and give systemic thrombolysis but what's interesting is it's very much underused so this is a study from Paul Stein he looked at the National

inpatient sample database and he found that patients that got thrombolytic therapy with hypotension and this is all based on icd-10 coding actually had a better outcome than those who didn't we have several other studies that support

this but you look at this and it seems like our use of thrombolytics and massive PE is going down and I think into the for whatever reason that that the specter of bleeding is really on people's minds and and for and we're not

using systemic thrombolysis as often as we should that being said there are cases in which thrombolytics are contraindicated or in which they fail and that opens the door for these other therapies surgical unblocked demand

catheter active therapy surgical unblocked mean really does have a role here I'm not going to speak about it because I'm an interventionist but we can't forget that so catheter directed therapy all sorts

of potential options you got the angio vac device over here you've got the penumbra cat 8 device here you've got an infusion catheter both here and here you've got the cleaner device I haven't pictured the inari float

Reaver which is a great new device that's entered the market as well my message to you is that you can throw the kitchen sink at these patients whatever it takes to open up a channel and get blood to the left ventricle you can do

now that being said there is the angio jet which has a blackbox warning in the pulmonary artery I will never use it because I'm not used to using it but you talk to Alan Matsumoto Zieve Haskell these guys have a lot of experience with

the androgen and PE they know how to use it but I would say though they're the only two people that I know that should use that device because it is associated with increased death within the setting of PE we don't really know you know with

great precision why that happens but theoretically what that causes is a release of adenosine can cause bradycardia bradycardia and massive p/e they just don't mix well so

quick I did want to mention t-carr briefly and try to get you guys closer to back on time this is a hybrid procedure this is combining the surgical procedure we talked about first and carotid stenting it takes combined

carotid exposure at the base of the clavicle or just above the clavicle and reverses blood flow just like we talked about but tastes slightly different technique or approach to doing this and then you put the stent in from a drug

carotid access here's the components of the device right up by the neck there is where the incision is made just above the clavicle and you have this sheet that's about eight French in size that only goes in about us to 2 cm or 1 and a

half cm overall into the vessel and then that sheath is sutured to the the chest wall and then it's got a side arm that goes what's labeled number six here is this flow reversal urn enroute neuroprotection kit it reverses the

blood flow and then you get a femoral sheath in the vein right in the common femoral vein and you reverse the blood flow so this is a case a picture from our institution up on the right is the patient's neck and that's the carotid

exposure and the initial sheath is in place so the sidearm of that sheath is the enroute protection system which is going up up at the top of the image there we're gonna back bleed that let that sidearm of that sheath continue to

bleed up to the very top and then connect that to the common femoral venous sheet that we have in place there's a stepwise of that and then ultimately what we see at the end of the procedure is that filter inside that

little canister can be interrogated after and you can see the debris this is in the box D here on the bottom left the debris that we captured during the flow reversal and this is a what we call a passive and then active flow reversal

system so once the system is in place the direct exposure carotid sheath in place the flow controller and AV shunt in place you see the direction of blood flow so now all that blood flow in that common carotid artery is going reverse

direction and so when you place a sheath or wire and and ultimately through that sheath up by the carotid artery there's no risk for distal embolization because everything is flowing in Reverse here's a couple

case examples ferns from our institution this is a patient who had a symptomatic critical greater than 90% stenosis has tandems to nose he's so one proximal at the origin and one a little bit more distal we you can see the little

retractors down at the base of the image there in the sheath that's essentially the extent of the sheath from the bottom of that image into the vessel only about a cm or two post angioplasty instant patient tolerated that quite well here's

another 71 year-old asymptomatic patient greater than 90% stenosis pretty calcified lesion a little more extensive than maybe with the CT shows there's the angiography and then ultimately a post stent placement using the embolic

protection device and overall the trials have shown good good safety met profile overall compared to carotid surgery so it's a minimum minimal exposure not nearly as large the risk of stroke is less because you're not mucking around

up there you're using the best of a low profile system with flow reversal albeit with a mini surgical exposure overall we've actually have an abstract or post trip this year's meeting this is just a snapshot of that you can check it out

this is our one year experience we've had comparable low complication rates overall in our experience so in summary

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