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Transcript

stop back and take a look at it and have a dialogue with the orthopedic gynecologist. I'll tell you even if it's metastatic lesion, you may still wanna have a conversation with him because sometimes they're gonna resect that or do an arthroplasty for a pathologic fracture. And it would be nice to go on a pathway that they are gonna be in. So it's really that interaction.

Obviously you're gonna be mindful of adjacent neurovascular structures. Nick did a great paper on radiographics looking at all these things. And it's really to keep that in mind. You wanna know the anatomy. Compressibility of the

site can also be an issue. And in spine, you wanna consider going for spinal lesions transpedicular versus extrapedicular. And this is a case. You can see there's a lesion here in the upper lumbar spine. Extrapedicular course was taken. You can see the

them so my particular area of interest is a blade of radium ization and what we'd like to do is to break the liver

down into a bunch of little tiny perfused volumes off of a single vascular pedicle or what we call angio zones and those are those allow us to segment out if you only have small volume disease for example like here in

segment three why do I have to treat the entire left to paddock low I can actually treat just that small portion just like it what it tastes only now I'm administering y9t but since it's expendable liver I

can administer doses that are way higher orders of magnitudes higher than what I could if our infusing into the liver just on its own so here's an example of that if you look at this lesion in the right of panic lobe you'll see these

little lines over them what we want to achieve is around a 205 GRA threshold for these lesions that's the red line everything that's south of red in terms of color orange Holly to blue is not cold enough to kill tumor so if we

administer a dose of a tea grade to the lobe we get this coverage which is to be a partial response if I administer 150 grey suddenly that red line gets larger what happens when you administer 400 grey now you've officially covered the

entire lesion and so you're going to lose the adjacent liver at those kind of doses and as well - what what the real question then is not sort of how much dose you give it's you give what you need to to ablate the tumor in its

entirety and you see what the patient's left with if someone's left with anatomically a lot of remnant liver because of how you've segmented out that lesion then go ahead and dose extremely high and that's essentially what we've

seen in pathologic results it's one of the highest things of high school pathological crosa rates you can achieve with a trans arterial therapy it's highly competitive with thermal ablation in the correctly selected bleezin

so this is an example of what it looks like when you segment out a little lesion like this and this patient ultimately went to resection and this was a complete pathologic necrosis but as you can see even it was a cirrhotic

patient we chose a very small volume of liver that we felt the patient would tolerate so that's a blade of vernalization let's take a look at what looks like in real time so we have a little capsular lesion we felt that

ablating this patient who was a potential transplant candidate we felt we can probably with a blade of radium realization so you go in and this is the comb beam CT that looks at a complete enhancement of the lesion within the NGO

zone this is what the MAA looks like when we administer it you can see how it tends to cluster within the tumor but you can see what the adverse territory is the liver adjacent to it this is what the engine room looks like how highly

selective it is the day of and this is what the wine ID actually looks like is the wine 90 doing its job and you can see how conformal it is there's no risk whatsoever to the liver that's adjacent outside of that field of

a maximum of around 11 millimeters and this is a patient at one month with a complete imaging response and this patient never developed a recurrent to the site and what's actually sole mode of treatment for this person's liver

cancer this is how you get complete pathologic response if you look at those little tiny grey dots in there those are actually the spheres within tiny little vessels within the tumor sometimes they go even to the portal branch but you can

see how they're not clustered uniformly but when you make them super hot that allows them to give range where otherwise they would be fine a little bit short so this also applies to the whole lobe this was a patient that had a

very unusual presentation of colon cancer that was invading the portal II we weren't sure what to do with this patient no one was because a very rare occurrence so we said well we would like

to resect him but there's not enough liver and we're not sure if this person's gonna survive because we've never seen portal cancer invading the portal vein so we said let's treat it with the radiation lobectomy and what's

cool here is if you look at the the arteries even though the tumor is invading the portal vein it's bringing arterial supply along with it like a vagabond and that's the conduit that allows us to treat these patients so

when we saw that we felt this patient we good candidate for irradiation lobectomy which is applying an ablative dose of y9t to the entire low not just a small segment in patients where otherwise cannot because of the anatomy the tumor

or if you're trying to shrink that lobe to get that person ready for surgery why because if you look at the size of the lobe on the left from this first image and compare it here you can see how much larger it got what happens is that part

that the surgeon ultimately tens on resecting in volutes over time and becomes completely vitalized and turns into scar tissue so we know that if a surgeon goes in afterwards to cut it out it's going to not result in liver

failure and that level of security allows people to have sir who otherwise wouldn't this patient is not going to have metastatic disease because we followed their blood level markers let me see how low they are and

is going to have enough liver remnant so the patient went to resection and this is the pathologic specimen and this was also a complete pathologic necrosis so I

the traditional three pillars are

surgical medical and rad honk which actually was once part of radiology and separated just like interventional radiology has and where is the role for this last column so many patients are not medically operable so if you set the

gold standard you know that the cure for someone has a primary liver mass well about 20 percent of patients who present can undergo resection what you do for the remaining portion so Salvage is what we offer when someone has undergone

standard of care and it didn't work how do we hop back in and try to see how much these folks it's low-risk it's not very expensive at all as compared to things like surgery and the recovery is usually the same date so

this concept here of tests of time is kind of interesting a lot of times when we look at a tumor let's say it's 2 centimeters it's not really the size of the tumor but it's how nasty of a player it is and it's

difficult to find out sometimes so what we do is we'll treat it using an IR technique and watch the patient and if they do well then we can subject them then to the more aggressive therapy and it's more worthwhile because we've found

that that person is going to be someone who's likely going to benefit you can use this in conjunction with other treatments and repeat therapy is well tolerated and finally obviously palliation is very important as we try

to focus on folks quality of life and again this can be done in the outpatient setting so here's a busy slide but if you just look at all the non-surgical options that you have here for liver dominant primary metastatic liver

disease everything that's highlighted in blue is considered an interventional oncology technique this is these the main document that a lot of international centers use to allocate people to treatments when they have

primary liver cancer HCC and if you see if you see at the very bottom corner there in very early-stage HCC actually ablation is a first-line therapy and they made this switch in 2016 but it's the first time that an

intervention illogic therapy was actually recommended in lieu of something like surgery why because it's lesions are very small its tolerated very well and it's the exact same reason why your dermatologists can freeze a

lesion as opposed to having to cut everything off all the time at a certain point certain tumors respond well and it's worth the decrease in morbidity so

thank you so much for inviting me and to speak at this session so I'm gonna share with you a save a disaster and a save hopefully my disclosures which aren't related so this is a 59 year old female she's lovely with a history of locally advanced pancreatic cancer back in 2016

and and she presented with biliary and gastric outlet obstructions so she underwent scenting so there was a free communication of the biliary system with the GI system she underwent chemo and radiation and actually did really well

and she presents to her local doctor in 2018 with ascites they tap the ascites that's benign and they'll do a workup and she just also happens to have n stage liver disease and cirrhosis due to alcohol abuse in her life so just very

unlucky very unfortunate and the request comes and it's for a paracentesis which you know pretty you know standard she has refractory ascites and because she has refractory ascites tips and this is a problem because the pointer doesn't

work because a her biliary system is in communication with the GI system right so there's lots of bugs sitting in the bile ducts because of all these stents that have opened up the bile duct to list to the duodenum and so you know

like any good individual I usually ask my colleagues you know there's way more smart people in the world than me and and and so I say well what should I do and and you know there was a very loud voice that said do not do a tips you

know there there's no way you should do a tips in this person maybe just put in a tunnel at drainage catheter and then there was well maybe you should do a tips but if you do a tips don't use a Viator don't use a covered stand use a

wall stunt a non-covered stunt because you could have the bacteria that live in the GI tract get on the the PTFE and and you get tip situs which is a disaster and then there was someone who said well you should do a bowel prep you

like make her life miserable and you know give her lots of antibiotics and then you should do a tips and then it's like well what kind of tips and they're like I don't know maybe you should do a covered said no not a covered tonight

and then they're you know and then there was there was a other voice that said just do a tips you know just do the damn tips and go for it so I did it would you know very nice anatomy tips was placed she did well

the next day she has fevers and and her blood cultures come back positive right and you can see in the circle that there's a little bit of low density around the tips in the liver and so they put her on IV antibiotics and then they

got an ultrasound a week later and the tips that occluded and then they got a CT just to prove that the ultrasound actually worked so this really hurt my gosh to rub it in just to rub it in just just to confirm that your tips occlude

it and so you know I feel not so great about myself and particularly because I work in an institution that defined tip seclusion was one of the first people so gene Laberge is one of my colleagues back in the day demonstrated Y tips

occludes and one of the reasons is because it's in communication with the biliary system so bile is very toxic actually and when it gets into the the lining of the tips it causes a thrombosis and when they would go and

open these up they would see green mile or biome components in the in the thrombus so I felt particularly bad and so and then I went back and I looked and I was like you know what the tips is short but it's not short in the way that

it usually is usually it's short at the top and they people don't extend it to the to the outflow of the hepatic vein here I hadn't extended it fully in and it was probably in communication with a bile duct which was also you know living

with lots of bacteria which is why she got you know bacteremia so just because we want to do more imaging cuz you know god forbid you know you got the ultrasound of her they because she was back to remake and

you know that and potentially subject they got an echo just to make sure that she doesn't have endocarditis and they find out that she has a small p fo so what happens when you have a thrombosed tips you go back in there and you do a

tips or vision you line it with a beautiful new stent that you put in appropriately but would you do that when the patient has a shunt going from one side of the heart to the other so going from the right to the left so sort of

similar to that case right and so what do we do so I you know certainly not the smartest person in the room we've demonstrated that so I go and I asked my colleagues and so the loud voice of saying you know I told you this is why

we don't practice this kind of medicine and then there was someone who said why don't we anticoagulate her and I was like are you kidding me like you know do you think a little lovenox is gonna cure this and then the same person who said

we should do a tunnel dialysis tile the tunnel drainage catheter or like a polar X was like how about a poor X in here like thanks man we're kind of late for that what about thrombolysis and then you

know the most important WWJ be deed you guys are you familiar with that no what would Jim Benenati do that's that's that's the most important thing right so so of course you know I called Miami he's you know in a but in a big case you

know comes and helps me out and and I'm like what do I do and you know he's like just just go for it you know I mean there are thirty percent of the people that we see in the world have a efo it's very small and it probably doesn't do

anything but you know I got to tell you I was really nervous I went and I talked to miner our colleagues I made sure that the best guy who was you know available for stroke would be around in case I were to shower emboli I don't even know

what he would do I mean maybe take her and you know thrombolysis you know her like MCA or something I don't know I just wanted him to be around it just made me feel good and then I talked to another one of my favorite advisors

buland Arslan who who also was at UVA and he said why don't you instead of just going in there and mucking around with this clot especially because you have this shunt why don't you just thrown belay sit and then you

know and then see what happens and so here I brought her down EKOS catheter and I dripped a TPA for 24 hours and you know I made her do this with local I didn't give her any sedation because I wanted and it's not so painful and I

just wanted her to be awake so I could make sure that she isn't you took an intervention location you turned it into internal medicine I I did work you know that's that's you know I care right you know we're clinicians and so she was

fine she was very appreciative I had a penumbra the the the Indigo system around the next day in case I needed to go and do some aspiration thrombectomy and what do you know you know the next day it all opened up and you can still

see that the tips is short the uncovered portion which is which is you know past the ring I'm sorry that which is below the ring into the portal vein is not seated well so that was my error and and there was a little bit of clot there so

what I ended up doing is I ended up balloon dilating it placing another Viator and extending it into the portal vein so it's covered so she did very

and these are just my personal observations I'm gonna make this quick because you got a great presenter following me and I don't want to push off dr. rustling too much longer but

compassion and smile are universal I didn't need to speak Mandarin to be able to understand what was going on and certainly when I'm at that scrub table and I'm performing procedures on patients we all could smile and laugh

and figure out what was going on very quickly without too much into discussion and so that's the one thing I would always say when you go smiles contagious wherever you are in this world everyone likes to smile

second thing is everything is your usable what you think it should be or not doesn't matter you can reuse it I found that one out betadine is amazing everything is reusable overseas you'll figure that one out quickly informed

healthcare is at a higher level in China and what I mean by that is when you have to have your patient pay for a $2000 stent yeah informed healthcare is amazing because you're gonna pull the patient's family in and you're gonna

talk to them and they're gonna have to make very important decisions about healthcare which is dependent on what type of finances they have and it's kind of sad unfortunately you know I would hope we

can go into a big long debate about US healthcare and everything else but in the end the sheet you put that Stinton if I need to put that stent in and then we'll worry about the finances later on it's

not that way over in there so that can be very frustrating for a clinician he's trying to do what he feels is best or if she feels is best for their patient and they can't you'll find no better MacGyver's than in china and then in

overseas because they will make it work no it's gonna fit no matter what what size fit you have it doesn't matter we'll make it work so it's it is amazing you will find some macgyvering going over there that's

quite fascinating more tase's and i've ever seen in my life you want to learn interventional oncology and you haven't done a taste procedure go to China for a week you're gonna come back and be an expert whether you want to be or not

that's de-facto and certainly the younger I are physicians strong knowledge base of clinically what's going on and excited to plug into their colleagues overseas they want to know what we're doing here in the US

they want to know what they're doing in Europe they want to know about the latest studies and that's exciting to me as a clinician to be able to share that and see that that future there is a strong and bright future for

interventional radiology and when

about RF a is that it was the first

ablation that we came up with all those that used it was first used in 1981 and it was really for the first liver ablation that we did RFA if any of you know about a Bovie knife the idea is the same the modality works the same as a

Bovie knife and still the main modality used in many parts of the world in the United States a lot of people will use it in certain areas but it's it's being slowly replaced by microwave ablation with time so as I mentioned some areas

are still using a fair amount of RF aimost or not I can honestly say that I haven't used much RF a at all I was sort of born into the generation of cryo and microwave places where we do use it or very commonly our Nerada meas for pain

control as well as spine ablations if any of you do the osteo cool system with Medtronic will do kyphoplasty in conjunction with an ablation that would be RFA and then Bowden oblations in conjunction with cement organizations

elsewhere right so in the pelvis if there's metastatic disease to the pelvis and you're going to ablate the lesion and then to cement augmentation the I

good afternoon thank you so much for invitation to speak to you I have a privilege of working at Johns Hopkins and we have a fairly large practice we at the main hospital itself we have 11 rooms and during a day about two of them are have a biliary case actually going

on at the same time so it's actually a fairly large volume of our practice and so the gamut of bluie intervention goes from really simple stuff to really complex and it is something that our trainees specifically will come to

Hopkins for and many of times they will end up being the blurry and experts as soon as they arrive at a new practice so certainly it's something that we deal with every day I just wanted to give you a landscape overview and share some good

cases that we've done and hopefully you may something have some comments or learn something about the way we do it but I'm pretty sure throughout the country a lot of great Billu work has been done currently there's no question

though the Blooey access and access to the Blooey system has really been played out in most hospitals perth by GI and ir and obviously surgery but almost a lesser so today and the rat in at least four IR is the PTC PPD or transparent

Col angiogram but it's actually a recurring role and I actually speak and have a sort of special interest in transit paddock colonoscopy as well so we play scopes through the skin through the liver and do a lot of balloon

intervention I'll show you a few cases like that but in true these access points are germane to what specialty you come from and obviously endoscopic beeper oral and if you eye are usually usually through the skin and there's no

question GI now in some hospitals I'm sure you have advanced endoscopy that will go through the stomach straight into the leftover liver so there's no question of a blurry landscape is changing quickly but no question that

this is quite common but yet most patients and internal medicine specialties will be looking at blurry disease by access point through scopes through ercp so going back from the Duden up or directly through in there's

advantages disadvantages something it's fairly obvious to everybody that you know no question is selling it to a patient if it had both choices that ERCP through the mouth and nothing invasive nothing sticking out their body

is attractive yet the outcomes are very similar but nonetheless there's pros and cons and through the trance of had a crap or two percutaneous route you do definitely have tubes at least sticking out

initially and this is often solved by GI as the main differentiator at least a discomfort but yet we are able to address almost every problem at times and often where'd they pay a lot there's

my last case here you have a 54 year old patient recent case who had head and neck cancer who presents with severe bleeding from a tracheostomy alright for some bizarre reason we had two of these

in like a week all right kind of crazy so here's the CT scan you can see the asymmetry of the soft tissue this is a patient who had had a neck cancer was irradiated and hopefully what you can notice on the

right side of the screen is the the large white circles of contrast which really don't belong there they were considered to be pseudo aneurysms arising from the carotid artery all right that's evidence of a bleed he was

bleeding out of his tracheostomy site so here's a CTA I think the better image is the image on the right side of the screen the sagittal image and you can see the carotid artery coming up from the bottom and you can see that round

circle coming off of the carotid artery you guys see that so here's the angiogram all that stuff that is to the right to the you know kind of posterior to the right of the screen there it doesn't belong there that's just

contrast that's exiting the carotid artery this is a carotid blowout we'll call it okay just that word sounds bad all right so that's bad so another question right what do you want to do here

I think embolization is reasonable but probably not the thing we can do the fastest to present a patient to treat a patient is bleeding out of the tracheostomy site so in this particular case this is a great covered stent case

alright and here's what it looked like after so we can go right up and just literally a cover sent right across the origin of that pseudoaneurysm and address the patient's bleeding alright

finally intraoperative considerations positioning for comb bean tpz photo

sensitivity EKG and lab draws and noting the time of tpz injection so i wanted to say a little bit about comb beam all right who has comb beam at their facility just a few less okay comb beam is medical imaging technique consisting

of x-ray computed tomography where the x-rays are divergent forming a cone the scanning software collects the data and reconstructs it producing what is termed a digital volume composed of three dimensional voxels of anatomical data

that can then be manipulated and visualized with specialized software on the left is a standard floral image and on the right is the comb beam so the red shows the vascular angiography the blue is a tumor and the yellow is a feeding

artery to the term or so dr. Abuja lays a B today is heavily involved with research so the procedure room with Combee was exclusively constructed for her so positioning for comb beam I believe

to be the bigger challenge initially comb being requires the patient to have their arms up high and using comb beam technology increases the procedural time it would be difficult for the patients to maintain that position and keep still

without anesthesia we started clinical trials with nurse assisted moderate sedation and soon learned it was very difficult the majority of our HCC embolization --zz are done with with sedation but we're

now using anesthesia for all of it so the lead in this case was Tom the radiology tech which assisted with the placement of the anesthesia equipment and patient positioning our anesthesia personnel are not only out of their

comfort zone in the I are sweet but unfamiliar with tpz trial and how the comb beam equipment rotates completely around the patient the patient is wearing two sets of leads one for anesthesia and the other for research

the leads are radio translucent to reduce artifact and imaging keeping the lid lid lead in the department took some getting used to one set got thrown away one set was found up in the ICU one set was on the

anesthesia equipment it was hard keeping track of our special equipment there so the pulse oximetry and blood pressure are on the lower extremities for cone beam again to avoid artifact and imaging when we first

started using cone beam the nursing staff administering sedation were disconnecting patients from monitoring so there were short interruptions with viewing vital signs it became risky and time-consuming to do

so during the procedure one set of EKGs triplicates are done just prior to tpz injection so the treat the EKG triplicates are basically they're two minutes apart in sets of three and lastly having to keep the tpz in a brown

bag and protected from light during the transfer nurse to position there's the photo on the left upper corner doctor busy day basically draws a tpz through a three-way stopcock under a sterile towel

while the nurse keeps the syringe in the brown bag poking a hole in the bag just to NIF to just enough to expose the tip of the syringe and attach it to the three-way this way the tpz is protected from light these reminder adjustments

however they were difficult from the standard and it took time for all the nurses and techs to adjust all right so this here is just a group photo Tom I've got Tyler on the right Thanh our technologist and ELISA and myself so I

thought this was a good photo to represent radiology many specialties consult two IR but it just isn't quite known yet by the general population and surprisingly by the medical staff as well there is a quote by dr. Rosa be

published quote the reason the public doesn't quite understand is we deal with so many disease entities and so many body parts it's hard to brand us unquote so I don't know if you guys were aware but interventional radiology is now its

own medical specialty so hepatocellular carcinoma is a primary malignancy of the liver and now the third leading cause of cancer deaths worldwide with over

higher procedures that get done in the country so they are from being basics such as being para sentences and in some

centers being quite complex in Euro work and there are centers where these none of all those that IR procedures being available so it's a very unequal distribution of provision of IR services and like I mentioned earlier on vascular

surgeons and cardiologists have basically taken over the peripheral vascular work and iogic work and other known neuro speciality such as bid early interventions for example saying that these two surgeons who are in some

remote centers who are doing their own provision as biliary basic interventions there is one neuro surgeon who went and had neuro imaging and then your interventional training who is now hundred percent doing a mural

intervention so as far as procedures go my day can be in diagnostic work and you might be dreaming you doing a paracentesis the next thing you might be doing some some I our basic IR and on the same day you might be doing a set

procedure so quite varied but not available in all centers as one would want as fine stuff goes the technology

what I was alluding to before no procedures a slam dunk a breeze a piece of cake or a snap you know you you can't you can't take for granted what you're

doing even though like like oh it's just another g-tube oh it's just another line I'm I'm chairman of the department I'm the chief of her interventional and I do I do the lines because widely in the audience no well one of you want to be

people Wylie I had him put my line in and he's because he was the best two days later it got infected so no no it happens you know it just happens you can't take all this stuff for granted my oncologist sister had dialysis and they

were removing a Quinton and she got an air embolus and died of 32 it was it's like you can't take this stuff for granted every procedure you think it's just a routine procedure but it's to a patient who it's their lifeline or it's

their it's it's the most important thing to them so you can't take any procedure lightly because any procedure can go wrong and then side-effects if sometimes it's not the tumor that gets you it's the it's the it's the side effects like

the massive PE that I had was from one of the drugs I was on so you have to at least alert the patient that they may have side effects and and here's another one of my things to make you laugh but I had my bone marrow transplant

and I thought my side effect was that my flatus didn't smell anymore and I was informed by the people in the room that it wasn't the flatus it was my nose that didn't smell anymore but I got to do all the UM I got I get to do all

the abscesses now because I have I lost my sense of smell right in fact this was an appendiceal abscess and it really everybody left the room but me because I was the only one who couldn't smell it and I got out there and we do in CT and

I asked the tech I said what the hell does the appendix do anyway and she said oh it hangs there and does nothing I said well after my bone marrow biopsy I have two of those now so waiting for

next is me talking about Egypt and Ethiopia and how I are how IRS practice in Egypt and Ethiopia and I think feather and Musti is gonna talk a little bit about Ethiopia as well he's got a

lot of experience about in about Ethiopia I chose these two countries to show you the kind of the the the the difference between different countries with within Africa Egypt is the 20th economy worldwide by GDP third largest

economy in Africa by some estimates the largest economy in Africa it's about a hundred million people about a little-little and about thirty percent of the population in the u.s. 15 florist's population worldwide and has

about a little over a hundred ir's right now 15 years ago they had less than ten IRS and fifteen years ago they had maybe two to three IRS at a hundred percent nowadays they're exceeding a hundred IRS so tremendous gross in the last 15 years

in the other hand Ethiopia is a very similar sized country but they only have three to five IRS that are not a hundred percent IRS and are still many of them are under training so there are major differences between countries within

within Africa countries that still need a lot of help and a lot of growth and countries that are like ten fifteen years ahead as far as as far as intervention ready intervention radiology

most of the practice in Ethiopia are basic biopsies drainages and vascular access but there is new workshops with with embolization as well as well as well as vascular access in Egypt the the ir practice is heavily into

interventional oncology and cancer that's the bulk that's the bulk of their of their practices you also get very strong neuro intervention radiology and that's mostly most of these are French trained and not

American trains so they're the neuro IRS in Egypt or heavily French and Belgian trains with with french-speaking influence but the bulk of the body iron that's not neuro is mostly cancer and it involves y9e tastes ablations high-end

ablations there's no cryoablation in Egypt there is high-end like like a nano knife reverse electric race electroporation in Egypt as well but there is no cryo you also get a specialty embolization such as fibroids

prostate and embroiders are big in Egypt they're growing very very rapidly especially prostates hemorrhoids and fibroids is an older one but it's still there's still a lot of growth for fibroid embolization zyou FES in Egypt

there's some portal portal intervention there's a lot of need for that but not a lot of IRS are actually doing portal intervention and then there's nonvascular such as billary gu there's also vascular access a lot of

the vascular access is actually done by nephrology and is not done by not not done by r is done by some high RS varicose veins done by vascular surgery and done by IRS as an outpatient there's a lot of visceral angiography as well

renal and transplants stuff so it's pretty high ends they do not do P ad very few IR s and maybe probably two IR s in the country that actually do P ad the the rest of the P ad is actually endovascular PA DS done by vascular

surgery a Horta is done all by vascular surgery and cardiothoracic surgery it's not done it's not done by IR IR s are asked just to help with embolization sometimes help with trying to get a catheter in a certain area but it's

really run by by vascular surgeons but but most more or less it's it's the whole gamut and I'm going to give you a little example of how things are different that when it comes to a Kannamma 'kz there's no dialysis work

they don't do Pfister grams they don't do D clots the reason for that is the vascular surgeons are actually very good at establishing fishless and they usually don't have a

lot of problems with it sometimes if the fistula is from Beau's door narrowed it's surgically revised they do a surgical thrombectomy because it's a lot cheaper it's a lot cheaper than balloons sheaths and and trying to and try a TPA

is very expensive it's a lot cheaper for a surgeon to just clean it out surgically and resuture it there's no there's no inventory there are no expensive consumables so we don't see dialysis as far as fistula or dialysis

conduits at all in Egypt and that's usually a trend in developed in developed countries next we'll talk

deal with radiofrequency ablation is that you have a probe which acts as the

calf the current you then have the pads which act as the anode and when you place the probe in turn it on essentially there's a very small cross-sectional area and there's high flux of energy so lots of

current and then it spreads out over the patient's body and it grounds itself to the grounding pad in so the way is since she works is you generate this very very large alternating current right so the water molecules want to stay in

conjunction with that that current their dipoles arrangement they have positive and minuses and so they're gonna flip around to stay in alignment with that current and that rapid oscillation of those water molecules causes the the

tissue to heat up the way a cinch it works is by coagulation necrosis what does that mean well it's basically cooking a steak it just dies and and that's your your your death related to coagulation necrosis so with our FA

what's important to know is that the molecules immediately next to the probe are what heat up and then everything from there on out heats sort of by passive conduction and I'll describe how microwave works and that's different to

that but the probe tip never gets hot but the molecules immediately adjacent to the probe get hot and and everything propagates from there on out why is that important well it's important because if you rapidly heat the tissue with RFA

you're gonna get charring but some of you might have experienced this when you do the cases the tissue basically gets charred then it increases the the impedance or the ability to conduct it in which case you you limit your ability

to create an ablation all right so charring is a problem and it increases your impedance which is essentially the resistance to making an ablation cavity and then that decreases the ablation size and so that's really

one of the main reasons why people started moving away from RFA is that you really need tissue that's going to conduct this electrical current well and it's difficult to predict what tissue that's gonna be and so the goal with RFA

as with any other thermal ablation is to get the tissue temperature to between 50 and 100 degrees Celsius and then slow temperature rises are best right so however you want to achieve that slow temperature rise you want to do it

slowly rather than a rapid increase which is the opposite really of microwave ablation radiofrequency

ablating things in the bones well musculoskeletal blasian we're fortunate within our practice that we have a doctor councilman Rochester who's

a probably one of the biggest world's experts on this and these are his cases that he shared but you can see when you have small little lesions and bones that are painful you can place probes in them and you freeze them the tumor dies and

musculoskeletal things remain intact what about when you have cases like this where there's a fracture going through the iliac bone on the left with an infiltrate of malignancy well you can cryo blade it and what's cool about is

you can using CT guidance do percutaneous cannulated pins and screws and a cement o plasti ver bladed cavity and when you're done the patient who initially couldn't walk now can and whose pain scale went down to one so I

think that's that's very important to realize the potential of image-guided medicine this is something that previously would have had to been done in the orthopedic lab so you know I think this is extending options where

otherwise it would have been difficult same thing applies to the spine you can ablate and fill them with cement so

we do drain the Louie systems we actually do this extremely successfully as interventional radiologists and it's a very high technical success like I said in this sort of supine position

from the mid-axillary line and these things are and you've seen a lot of these how these done really you need to pacify the system you get trans you most post people go trends in to cost Albany because the liver sometimes can be

tucked up way above and we usually want to make sure that the lung and the costophrenic angle doesn't come down low in nothing I take a deep inspiration first to make sure that you're not dealing with and then we now map your

track than you find some people do this with ultrasound guidance frequently with and dilated structures and most of the time it's actually much probably routine to actually do blind passes in the like I said the path of high success and to

pull back when you a passive our blue system is the only structure that doesn't wash away generally portal vein hepatic vein hepatic artery all of those structures are cylindrical

tubule alike are not are going to wash away move away and quite quickly and you can see this PDC and show in fact a left insertion of a right into your ductal system and frequently this will be something that we would have to make

people watch out like I said identification of choosing the right duct thereafter after you've identified you've performed a color angiogram is to identify how you're going to drain this and the most important thing to identify

is a peripheral duct doesn't matter which one there are ones with higher success but then within the lateral position find one market on the table then with a second axis as a to stick axis and I'm sure this is very germane

and common you've seen get into the peripheral duct and the AP fluoroscopy get a wide down you get a tube down and then eventually go it with a coaxial system getting a skinny wire converted to a larger wire and then following that

with a below a tube and your goal is to really get axis that goes transpannic through a perfect century through obstruction or no obstruction if it's just untie elated and through into the small bowel and lock a some type of

locking system it's interesting the size that you choose does make it different so if you go larger than the 12 french-trained initially the risk of bleeding actually goes above 10% for initial axis so the best is to probably

start with a 8 and 10 and that's what we typically do this is what we connect what it ends up looking like left a

so a couple a couple of ground rules first of all I'm a fish out of water I'm not your stereotypical position and I always say that uh that that's how I ended up in New Orleans because you can get lost in New Orleans if you're crazy and I said I didn't get I didn't go to

that course where they inserted this stick in your rectum in medical school so I am not politically correct okay and I don't know if any of you know the Jimmy Valvano story but um you know he got up there in front of everybody and

said I got a hundred and fifty holes in my bone so I want to see a little red light blinking what are you gonna do to me and well I'm similar to that if I'm not politically correct and you're offended I would please leave now

because there's nothing you can do to me because I'm on my way out anyway so it doesn't matter but and it's really funny that I just walked in when Vicki marks was talking and I think I'm a product of the early days of interventional because

we would do cases for eight hours and get eight hours of flora back to back it was that when we learned in tips when we were learning and after you read oral and we just take our badge and throw it and and I swear that that's the reason

why I ended up with myeloma anyway so some of this stuff I'm going to talk about I always like to insert humor so it does so it's not morbid and there are slides sometimes I'm you know being Italian I'm

kind of a wuss I cry at raindrops and and some sometimes I cannot get through the slide because it brings back kind of kind of crummy memories but anyway so I entitled this from the other side of the glass and I actually Photoshop that's me

looking at me getting treated in CT so I

so the idea with cryoablation as I mentioned you create ice crystals in this the tissues outside the cells and then the water rushes out of the cell the ice forms then within the cell and when you thaw the water rushes back in

and this is essentially this whole shift of fluid from one to the other it causes the cell to die but the cell doesn't die like it does with microwave it going to go something called apoptosis which essentially means the

cell decides it wants to die right so it dissolves all of its membranes and whatever else the proteins are then left available for your immune system to help clean things up and that's for the immuno genic response that we talked

about earlier other things you worry

different applications renal ablation is very common when do we use it

high surgical risk patients primary metastatic lesions some folks are actually refused surgery nowadays and saying I'll have a one centimeter reno lesion actually want this in lieu of surgery people have

familial syndromes they're prone to getting a renal cancer again so we're trying to preserve renal tissue it is the most renal parenchymal sparing modality and obviously have a single kidney and a lot of these are found

incidentally when they're getting a CT scan for something else here's a very sizable one the patient that has a cardiomyopathy can see how big the heart is so it's you know seven centimeter lesion off of the left to superior pole

against the spleen this patient wouldn't have tolerated bleeding very much so we went ahead and embolized it beforehand using alcohol in the pide all in a coil and this is what it looks like when you have all those individual ice probes all

set up within the lesion and you can see the ice forming around I don't know how well it projects but in real time you can determine if you've developed your margin we do encompass little bit of spleen with that and you can see here

that you have a faint rim surrounding that lesion right next to the spleen and that's the necrotic fat that's how you know that you got it all and just this ablation alone caused a very reactive pleural

effusion that you can see up on the CT over there so imagine how this patient would have tolerated surgery pulmonary

they travel together so that's what leads to the increased pain and sensitivity so in the knee there have been studies like 2015 we published that study on 13 patients with 24 month follow-up for knee embolization for

bleeding which you may have seen very commonly in your institution but dr. Okun Oh in 2015 published that article on the bottom left 14 patients where he did embolization in the knee for people with arthritis he actually used an

antibiotic not imposing EMBO sphere and any other particle he did use embolus for in a couple patients sorry EMBO zine in a couple of patients but mainly used in antibiotic so many of you know if antibiotics are like crystalline

substances they're like salt so you can't inject them in arteries that's why I have to go into IVs so they use this in Japan to inject and then dissolve so they go into the artery they dissolve and they're resorbable so they cause a

like a light and Baalak effect and then they go away he found that these patients had a decrease in pain after doing knee embolization subsequently he published a paper on 72 patients 95 needs in which he had an

excellent clinical success clinical success was defined as a greater than 50% reduction in knee pain so they had more than 50% reduction in knee pain in 86 percent of the patients at two years 79 percent of these patients still had

knee pain relief that's very impressive results for a procedure which basically takes in about 45 minutes to an hour so we designed a u.s. clinical study we got an investigational device exemption actually Julie's our clinical research

coordinator for this study and these are the inclusion exclusion criteria we basically excluded patients who have rheumatoid arthritis previous surgery and you had to have moderate or severe pain so greater than 50 means basically

greater than five out of ten on a pain scale we use a pain scale of 0 to 100 because it allows you to delineate pain a little bit better and you had to be refractory to something so you had to fail medications injections

radiofrequency ablation you had to fail some other treatment we followed these patients for six months and we got x-rays and MRIs before and then we got MRIs at one month to assess for if there was any non-target embolization likes a

bone infarct after this procedure these are the clinical scales we use to assess they're not really so important as much as it is we're trying to track pain and we're trying to check disability so one is the VA s or visual analog score and

on right is the Womack scale so patients fill this out and you can assess how disabled they are from their knee pain it assesses their function their stiffness and their pain it's a little

bit limiting because of course most patients have bilateral knee pain so we try and assess someone's function and you've improved one knee sometimes them walking up a flight of stairs may not improve significantly but their pain may

improve significantly in that knee when we did our patients these were the baseline demographics and our patients the average age was 65 and you see here the average BMI in our patients is 35 so this is on board or class 1 class 2

obesity if you look at the Japanese study the BMI in that patient that doctor okano had published the average BMI and their patient population was 25 so it gives you a big difference in the patient population we're treating and

that may impact their results how do we actually do the procedure so we palpate the knee and we feel for where the pain is so that's why we have these blue circles on there so we basically palpate the knee and figure

out is the pain medial lateral superior inferior and then we target those two Nicollet arteries and as depicted on this image there are basically 6 to Nicollet arteries that we look for 3 on the medial side 3 on the lateral side

once we know where they have pain we only go there so we're not going to treat the whole knee so people come in and say my whole knee hurts they're not really going to be a good candidate for this procedure you want focal synovitis

or inflammation which is what we're looking for and most people have medial and Lee pain but there are a small subset of patients of lateral pain so this is an example patient from our study says patient had an MRI beforehand

something some case examples of where I use cryoablation right so this is a

patient who has a nodule in the in the back of their lungs in the right lower lobe and basically I'll place two probes into that notch on either side of Brackett the lesion and then three months later fall up you can see a nice

resolution of that nodule so when it comes to lung a couple things I'll mention is if the nodule is greater than eight millimeters I'll immediately go to two probes I want to make sure that I cover the lesion whereas microwave it's

pretty rare depending on what device you're using for you to put more than one probe in so some people's concern with cryo in the lung is more probes means more risk of pneumothorax but you can also see surrounding and proximal to

where we did the place you can see the hemorrhage that you see so if those of you out there that are doing the lung ablations you probably have physicians that are using something called the triple freeze protocol right so the

double freeze protocol is the idea that you go ten minutes freeze five minutes 30 minutes freeze five minutes thought well what we saw was lung early on in the studies was a very large ablation a freeze to start with caused massive

hemorrhage patients were having very large amounts of hemorrhage so what we do now in lung is something called a triple freeze protocol we'll do a very short freeze about three minutes and that'll cause an ice ball to form and

then we'll thaw that in other three minutes three minutes of thawr and as soon as that starts to thaw we'll freeze it again and we've shown us a substantial decrease in the amount of hemorrhage so if you're doing long and

you and you you're told to do a double freeze protocol perhaps suggest the triple freeze is a better idea so that's three months later so another example

you know the most common procedures in China this is kind of interesting I was blown away by this when I did the research on this I knew when I would go

into the hospitals and I was all over for I've been to Beijing shanghai nanjing to even the smallest little place is up in northern china and the one thing that blew me away I'm looking at the board and I'm seeing neuro case

after neuro case after neuro case I'm like it got 10 Narrows and and a pic line I'm like it's an interesting interesting Dysport of cases and the reason being is in China they consider diagnostic neuro

so neuro angio to be the primary evaluating factor for any type of neurological issue so you're not getting a CT if you come in with a headache you think you're gonna go get that cat scan now it's generally what not what they do

so you're talking about a case and I'll give you the case matrix of the break-up it's just proportionately high for a neuro very well trained in neuro and most of the guys that are trying to neuro very similar to what dr. well Saad

said a lot of the guys in Africa are trained in France so other neuro interventions have trained in France or lipstick in China and have received European training on that so you know the level of what they're doing some of

the stroke interventions some of the ways they're going after these complex APM's they'll Rob well anything you'll see here in the US so it is quite interesting to see and the second

largest is taste hepatocellular carcinoma is on the rise it's the highest level in the world is found in China and Korea for that matter and there's many reasons why we can go into it some of it is genetic factors and a

lot of societal factors alcohol is a very liberally lie baited in China and there is problems with you know cirrhotic disease and other things that we know could be particular factors for HCC so always found that very

interesting like I said I would go into a hospital and I'll see a PICC line a hemodialysis catheter and then 20 tase's on the board in one day so it is quite interesting how they do it and then biliary intervention stents tips and

then lung ablation you know the highest rates of HCC biliary cancer and lung cancer found in China and once again when we talk about lung cancer what are those contributing factors you're talking about certainly a genetic

component but mostly it's lifestyle factors smoking is prevalent in the US and in you know in Europe and in some areas in Asia we've seen obviously a big reduction in smoking which is fantastic China not so much you don't see that

it's a societal thing for them and unfortunately that has led to the the largest rates of cancer in the world in lung cancer so lung ablation is a big procedure for them over there as well so procedure breakdown this is kind of some

of that breakdown I was telling you about that cerebral procedure is some of the most commonly performed and you're talking about at very large numbers they're doing neuro intervention because they do it for die

Gnostic purposes and I would that kind of blew me away when I found out they do have cast scanners and certainly for trauma and things like that they'll do it but the majority of the stuff if you come in you have headaches you might end

up in the neuro suite so it's quite interesting how they can do that tumor intervention very high like I said you have the highest rates of HCC in the world you're getting cases they do have y9t available and in fact China just

made their largest acquisition ever with the by what you guys know a company they bought surtex there's a Chinese company now it got bought by China now the interesting is they don't currently have a whole lot of

y9t over there but they just opened up some of their own generators so they can actually start producing the white room 90 and I think you'll see probably a increase in those numbers of y9t cases but to date the number one procedure for

them is taste and they do a lot of them you know like I said on average a community hospital setting you might find 15 or 20 cases a day with three interventionalists so compared to what you guys do there's probably not many

people here unless you're working at a major institution that there's nothing but cancer doing 20 cases a day and I promise you're probably not doing it with only two interventionalists so it's amazing how fast and effective they've

gotten at and below therapy and unfortunately it is necessary because of those elevated HCC levels and like I said when we look at some of these things it's I go over there and I'm looking at the board there are very few

cases for you know PICC lines very few the frosted grams very new bread-and-butter abscess training procedures like we do here in the US they are very it's the prevalence is very simple it's neuro it stays and it's

biopsy and those are some kind of the big three for intervention in China and there it's such a large volume you get to learn a lot when you're over there and CLI PA D even though it's more prevalent in China than it is here

because smoking lifestyle factors certainly westernization of the diet in China which occurred since the 1950s and 60s has led to a lot of McDonald's and and fast food and things that weren't currently available prior to 1950s you

see a lot of PA d but it is very undertreated and certainly talking to some of my colleagues like whom are oh you'll get to see a little bit later on with CLI fighters one of the things that's kind of frustrating for them is

that it is so undertreated it's very common to see amputations in China instead of actually doing pipe in percutaneous intervention they normally like to go too far and you see a lot of amputation certainly above

normal so that's something I think as an interventional initiative when we look at these things coming from a Western perspective it's definitely something we need to pursue a little more aggressively but there it's very little

oh well you're talking about two you know two to three percent you know maybe up to six percent or PID cases very very low levels so equipment in equipment in

ablation also has a little disadvantage than that I don't know if you folks have heard of heat sink but the idea is that

if you put the probe immediately adjacent to a blood vessel that blood vessel is gonna suck the temperature away and so that you cannot oblate around blood vessels particularly well because the blood flow rate since

you just washes it out it's called heat sink effect and this is essentially showing infrared image of of an ablation how if you put a vessel nearby it stops the ablation now that can actually be used as an advantage depending on where

you're doing an ablation but truthfully if you're doing it in the liver and you're next to the portal vein or something like that it becomes a bit of a problem and any blood vessel greater than three millimeters is our concern so

blasian it's well tolerated and folks with advanced pulmonary disease there's a prospective trial that showed that

there are pulmonary function does not really change after an ablation but the important part here is a lot of these folks who are not candidates for surgical resection have bad hearts a bad coronary disease and bad lungs to where

a lot of times that's actually their biggest risk not their small little lung cancer and you can see these two lines here the this is someone who dr. du Puy studied ablation and what happens if you recur and how your survival matches that

and turns out that if you recur and in if you don't actually a lot of times this file is very similar because these folks are such high risk for mortality outside or even their cancer so patient selection is really important for this

where do we use it primary metastatic lesions essentially once we feel that someone is not a good surgical candidate and they have maintained pulmonary function they have a reasonable chance for surviving a long

time we'll convert them to being an ablation candidate here's an example of a young woman who had a metastatic colorectal met that was treated with SPRT and it continued to grow and was avid so you can see the little nodule

and then the lower lobe and we paste the placement prone and we'd Vance a cryo plugs in this case of microwave probe into it and you turn off about three to five minutes and it's usually sufficient to burn it it cavitate s-- afterwards

which is expected but if you follow it over time the lesion looks like this and you say okay fine did it even work but if you do a PET scan you'll see that there's no actually activity in there and that's usually pretty definitive for

those small lesions like that about three centimeters is the most that will treat in a lot of the most attic patients but you can certainly go a little bit larger here's her follow-up actually two years

that had no recurrence so what do you do when you have something like this so this is encasing the entire left upper lobe this patient underwent radiation therapy had a low area of residual activity we followed it and it turns out

that ended up being positive on a biopsy for additional cancer so now we're playing cleanup which is that Salvage I mentioned earlier we actually fuse the PET scan with the on table procedural CT so we know which part of all that

consolidated lung to target we place our probes and this is what looks like afterwards it's a big hole this is what happens when you microwave a blade previously radiated tissue having said that this

was a young patient who had no other options and this is the only side of disease this is probably an okay complication for that patient to undergo so if you follow up with a PET scan three months later there's no residual

activity and that patient actually never recurred at that site so what about

we're gonna move on to embolization there a couple different categories of embolization bland embolization is when

you just administering something that is choking off the blood supply to the tumor and that's how it's going to exert its effect here's a patient with a very large metastatic renal cell lesion to the humerus this is it on MRI this is it

per angiogram and this patient was opposed to undergo resection so we bland embolized it to reduce bleeding and I chose this one here because we used sequentially sized particles ranging from 100 to 200 all

the way up to 700 and you can actually if you look closely can see sort of beads stacked up in the vessel but that's all that it's doing it's just reducing the blood supply basically creating a stroke within the tumor that

works a fair amount of time and actually an HCC some folks believe that it were very similar to keep embolization which is where at you're administering a chemo embolic agent that is either l'p hi doll with the chemo agent suspended within it

or drug eluting beads the the Chinese have done some randomized studies on whether or not you can also put alcohol in the pie at all and that's something we've adopted in our practice too so anything that essentially is a chemical

outside of a bland agent can be considered a key mobilization so here's a large segment eight HCC we've all been here before we'll be seeing common femoral angiogram a selective celiac run you can make sure

the portals open in that segment find the anterior division pedicle it's going to it select it and this is after drug living bead embolization so this is a nice immediate response at one month a little bit of gas that's expected to be

within there however this patient had a 70% necrosis so it wasn't actually complete cell death and the reason is it's very hard to get to the absolute periphery of the blood supply to the tumor it is able to rehab just like a

stroke can rehab from collateral blood supply so what happens when you have a lesion like this one it's kind of right next to the cod a little bit difficult to see I can't see with ultrasound or CT well you can go in and tag it with lip

Idol and it's much more conspicuous you can perform what we call dual therapy or combination therapy where you perform a microwave ablation you can see the gas leaving the tumor and this is what it looks like afterwards this patient went

to transplant and this was a complete pathologic necrosis so you do need the concept of something that's ablative very frequently to achieve that complete pathologic necrosis rates very hard to do that with ischemia or chemotherapy

alone so what do you do we have a

to talk about is indirect angiography this is kind of a neat trick to suggest to your intervention list as a problem solver we were asked to ablate this lesion and it looked kind of funny this patient had a resection for HCC they

thought this was a recurrence so we bring the comb beam CT and we do an angio and it doesn't enhance so this is an image here of indirect port ography so what you can do is an SMA run and see at which point along the

run do you pacify the portal vein and you just set up your cone beam CT for that time so you just repeat your injection and now your pacifying the entire portal vein even though you haven't selected it and what to show

well this was a portal aneurysm after resection with a little bit of clot in it the patient went on some aspirin and it resolved in three months so back to our first patient what do you do for someone who has HCC that's invading the

heart this patient underwent 2y 90s bland embolization microwave ablation chemotherapy and SBRT and he's an eight-year survivor so it's one of those things where certainly with the correct patient selection you can find the right

things to do for someone I think that usually our best results come from our interdisciplinary consensus in terms of trying to use the unique advantages that individual therapies have and IO is just one of those but this is an important

lesson to our whole group that you know a lot of times you get your best results when you use things like a team approach so in summary there are applications to IO prior to surgery to make people surgical candidates there are definitive

treatments ie your cancer will be treated definitively with curative intent a lot of times we can save when people have tried cure intent and weren't able to and obviously to palliate folks to try to buy them time

and quality of life thermal ablation is safe and effective for small lesions but it's limited by the adjacent anatomy y9t is not an ischemic therapy it's an ablative therapy you're putting small ablative radioactive particles within

the lesion and just using the blood supply as a conduit for your brachytherapy and you can use this as a new admin application to make people safer surgical candidates when you apply to the entire ride a panic globe

thanks everyone appreciate it [Applause] [Music]

then supplements I often get the question about supplements and what that my take on the supplements is that um if

it's if it doesn't detract from traditional therapy what the hell why not right I take one pill it's 21 days one chemotherapy pill it's 28 000 bucks so if I buy supplements for 20 bucks a

month big deal right in fact I was in liver failure for two years got three biopsies get all this all the stuff done they couldn't get me out of liver failure and I read some stuff on supplements and I take these 3

supplements my livers been normal since so you can't convince me that they don't work so as long as it doesn't take away from traditional therapy you can go ahead and do it I have a website on our website I have a Facebook page and I

scan the internet every morning and put up put up articles that relate to cancer all cancers you know and screening what's new you know different drugs and lately aspirin ibuprofen caffeine and even even CBDs have been shown to be

effective in certain in certain cancers and we have to keep our eye on that ibuprofen and aspirin actually have been shown to decrease in Demetrio cancer liver cancer caffeine there was a 50% decrease in liver cancer and those

patients who drank a lot of caffeine it also is supposed to be helpful in preventing pancreatic and Demetrio and breast cancer so you just have to keep your eye on this but this is this is my

to have severe humor billion almost all all those that need your attention is about aghori portal veins though can be tremendously so the differentiation between hepatic artery and portal vein

bleeding is the big differentiator that will require you to do something about it most of the times if you injure the portal vein or hepatic vein these usually heal by themselves and it's counterintuitive the management of this

is actually to upsize your tube and they make sure the side holes are not adjacent to the bleeding vein it's crossing so it's counterintuitive that you upsize - for bleeding injure the vein more but

eventually those veins will thromboses off for that little branch the difficult situations of sahiba heavy hit an artery and here's one way we did a gram you can see the pacification the reason why you want to go into the peripheral duct I'll

show you always near the hilum is actually also very big blood are the blood vessels and the reason why we go peripheral the number of large vessels are much greater diminished so you always want in this patient was

transferred for an outside Hospital my PTC was performed by someone who obviously doesn't do a lot of these and access directly into the coma bar duct you can see all these filling defects all these filling defects in the combat

like those or clots and filled with someone who's actually had life-threatening significant he Mobilia and required what we did was they were just pacify the system get another peripheral access

right biliary system and embolize the track coming out and thereby removing the original axis that was placed by the outside hospital interventionists obviously the ones that aureus the most of the narco that will kill people is

the ones that hit our ease and pseudoaneurysm formation or tara Venus fistulas and I can be problematic in my only real ways their dresses trans cap the treatments a patient would have an angio we'd have to get into the pedagogy

find the feeding or it almost always though and we can predict way that bleeding artery is it's where your Y is crossing the architecture of the artery tree frequently you will not see it until you remove the tube so almost

always you would have to prep the right flank prep the groin to an angiogram with the tube in because you don't really want to be rushing at the beginning of your procedure you frequently do the angiogram not see

bleeding and then a second operator needs the described brake scrub get non sterile axes remove the blue tube repeat the angiogram and almost certainly then you'll see it but again it's very

predictable where it is but every now and then you get caught out and the bleeding side can be remote from where your actual Y or actual access transgressor you you do need to have a careful eye looking for that and so you

know when we looked at out and we do large numbers of blurry drainage the best predictor or and like I said Arturo Kimber Billy is actually related to your first tube and the size that you place and it's also

interesting like I said every now and then you're gonna see that bleeding arteries are actually not liver arteries and you can't bleed from the GDA internal memory from other procedures intercostal artery from where you put

your tube first needle through the liver through sorry through the ribs itself it's actually access site rather than your internal parenchymal your liver so it's actually important to also do sometimes it a water gram check the

intercostal artery because you'll miss it by doing a celiac or teragrams hepatic artery gram and don't understand why the patients still bleeding and here's just example of what a pseudoaneurysm does when we remove the

chief we can see the image on the right the blue tube has mean withdraw back and they you can see quite clearly there and sorry the pseudoaneurysm of the paddock right re and like any other immunization is important to go front door back door

implies across mainly because the liver architecture has a rich collateralization that will feed before and after and like I said the lake complication zone was or derived and related to tube maintenance and tubes

catching on to things in dislodgement and so these are just really you know your whoever answers the phones whether it's the physicians on call they have to manage with maintenance of these tubes and really just keeping these tubes open

as long as possible it's amazing how long some of these tubes do last in particular in benign but Lewis structures so management of these is really or expectant and the right advice and frequently just need to

get these tubes changements they're clogged sufficiently the difficult ones

of cryoablation it's gentler than both microwave and RF a you can use it in a lot of locations because of that you can visualize the ice ball with CT multiple probes means potentially huge ablation zones and I'll show you an example of

that it's not painful and for me I know that I don't know about everyone else in the room but our anesthesia assistance is is very spotty or sporadic so it's nice to do stuff with conscious sedation in which case cryoablation you can

absolutely do most places with conscious sedation it's not painful at all whereas if you've done microwave you know the moment you turn the probe on the patient wants to punch you so so it's not particularly painful you can do it with

sedation and it has this immuno genic response that we're starting to learn more about right so when you cook tissue your since you just cha reverie and you just cook all the proteins and all the membrane of the cell with cryoablation

you actually keep some of the proteins in tact so what happens is as the cell dies your immune response comes in and it recognizes those tumor antigens right those tumor proteins and there's been lots of reports of where you oblate for

instance a renal mass and the patient's lung nodules will regress because of that so that's a very nice feature of it is that's got this immuno genic response and I'll use that often times if I'm doing a lung ablation for instance and

there's other nodules you can see a regression of those nodules the disadvantage as well you need you know there's these repeated freezes right so you do these freeze thaw cycles you go ten fighting you know ten freeze five

for ten freeze five for that ends up being a pretty long freeze time right and even if you do the triple freeze protocol which I can talk a little bit in a bit here you can see it ends up adding up a lot of time so the time you

save on not putting the patient to sleep and getting general anesthesia actually lose on the backend when you're standing and staring at the probes freezing whereas my crew of ablation as me as you know 10 minutes and you're

done there is this idea of a cold sink so like RFA if you put the probe right up against the blood vessel it's unlikely that that ice bowl is going to propagate into that blood vessel and you can use

that to your advantage once again I'll show you an example of that but cold sink is technically also a disadvantage and one of the main things people worry about with cryoablation is the bleeding aspect right so unlike our fa or

microwave you're essentially cooking the tissue it's a Bovie right you're very unlikely to have bleeding whereas cryo you freeze the tissue and when you thought all those blood vessels are now very porous and they can bleed and so

one of the concerns with cryo is that you have bleeding and you you'll often see this especially in renal and long and then do some early studies where where physicians were doing large liver oblations and they were getting into

something called cryo shock which we'll talk about in a little bit that's probably overhyped from the earlier studies but for that reason many people do not use cryoablation in the liver they would prefer to use microwave

about with cryoablation if you put the probes in and you create an ice ball and then you try and pull those probes out you can cause something called organ fracture basically and

essentially the idea is that you've trying to pull an ice ball out of a kidney or the reason you can tear that organ and it can have some pretty substantial complications related to that so once I've placed probes and

started freezing I don't touch them again even if you don't like where they are you don't want to pull them and move them around addition to that at the end of the case I'm always in a rush to get the probes out and you do this act of

thought thing and it's two minutes can I pull the probe I can I pull the probes out in the Reptoids I calm down calm down the idea that if you pull those out too early you can fracture the organ and

then as I mentioned with liver oblation specifically cryo shock was a concern these large liver oblations could cause the patient to become hypotensive going to di C raspberry compromise it was a big deal in the early studies and so a

lot of people stop doing cryo for liver now you're seeing a little bit of a resurgence of that but most still will do microwave for liver ablations

I'm gonna talk about me and shoulder embolization I'll take out my phone here so I know the timer perfect and I will try and cover everything about knee and shoulder embolization as quickly as I can so why are we doing this is really what I'm going to talk about there are

two different disease processes and the knee we're talking about arthritis and in the shoulder I'm talking about frozen shoulder so these are my disclosures obviously you know knee knee osteoarthritis is a major problem that

affects more than 30 million people in the United States and there are more than a hundred thousand hospitalizations a year just from NSAID toxicity in this patient population who takes NSAIDs for pain of course and they end up with

things like GI bleeds there are more deaths just related to n says the United States and there are more than four million knee injections performed annually in the

United States keep this in mind there are double-blind randomized placebo-controlled studies that show that knee injections don't work and yet there are four million every year okay so what's the rationale for genicular

artery embolisation so in the knee we always learn that knee arthritis is degenerative right there's no inflammation like rheumatoid arthritis but many years ago they discovered that there's actually an underlying synovial

inflammation that leads to an increase in these cytokines being released that leads to new blood vessel growth or angiogenesis and then this is the cycle of pain that occurs after that how does this actually occur and like I mentioned

it's not a new concept here as you can see this is a depiction from a 2005 article from Journal Rheumatology it just blown-up knee joint and what happens here is in the lining with that sort of peach color or light color on

the lateral aspect of the image where it says synovium gets inflamed releases these cytokines those cytokines break down the cartilage lead to new blood vessel growth and it's an inflammatory process so not just a degenerative

process and that it's that inflammation that we aim to target with genicular artery embolisation if you even take biopsies of patients who have inflammatory diseases and the joints here if you look at those two

slides on top we're all those little dark staining blood vessels there there that's a biopsy specimen from somebody with frozen shoulder to two slides below or actually biopsy specimens of someone's synovium who has just a

rotator cuff tear and you'll see there's no increased blood vessels in the two slides below but on the top there are increased blood vessels every time you have more blood vessels you have more nerves that's why they

call it a neurovascular bundle because they travel together so that's what leads to the increased pain and sensitivity so in the knee there have been studies like 2015 we published that study on 13 patients with 24 month

follow-up for knee embolization for bleeding which you may have seen very commonly in your institution but dr. Okun Oh in 2015 published that article on the bottom left 14 patients where he did embolization in the knee for people

with arthritis he actually used an antibiotic not imposing EMBO sphere and any other particle he did use embolus for in a couple patients sorry EMBO zine in a couple of patients but mainly used an antibiotic so many of you know if

antibiotics are like crystalline substances they're like salt so you can't inject them in arteries that's why I have to go into IVs so they use this in Japan to inject and then dissolve so they go into the artery they dissolve

and they're resorbable so they cause a like a light and Baalak effect and then they go away he found that these patients had a decrease in pain after doing knee embolization subsequently he published a paper on 72 patients 95

knees in which he had an excellent clinical success clinical success was defined as a greater than 50% reduction in knee pain so they had more than 50% reduction in knee pain in 86 percent of the patients at two years 79 percent of

these patients still had knee pain relief that's very impressive results for a procedure which basically takes in about 45 minutes to an hour so we

know we're running a bit short on time so I want to briefly just touch about

some techniques with comb beam CT which are very helpful to us there are a lot of reasons why you should use comb beam CT it gives us the the most extensive anatomic understanding of vascular territories and the implications for

that with oncology are extremely valuable because of things like margin like we discussed here's an example of a patient who had a high AF P and their bloodstream which tells us that they have a cancer in her liver we can't see

it on the CT there but if you do a cone beam CT it stands up quite nicely why because you're giving levels of contrast that if you were to give them through a peripheral IV it would be toxic to the patient but when you're infusing into a

segment the body tolerates at the problem so patient preparation anxa lysis is key you have them exhale above three seconds prior to that there's a lot of change to how we're doing this people who are introducing radial access

power injection anywhere from about 50 to even sometimes thirty to a hundred percent contrast depends on what phase you're imaging we have a Animoto power injector that allows us to slide what contrast concentration we like a lot of

times people just rely on 30% and do their whole the case with that some people do a hundred percent image quality this is what it looks like when someone's breathing this is very difficult to tell if there's complete

lesion enhancement so if you do your comb beam CT know it looks like this this is trying to coach the patient and try to get them to hold still and then this is the patient after coaching which looks like this so you can tell that you

have a missing portion of the lesion and you have to treat into another segment what about when you're doing an angio and you do a cone beam CT NIT looks like this this is what insufficient counts looks like on comb beam so when you see

these sort of Shell station lines that are going all over the screen you have to raise dose usually in larger patients but this is you know you either slow down the acquisition speed of your comb beam or

you raise dose this is what it looks like after we gave it a higher dose protocol it really changes everything those lines are still there but they're much smaller how do you know if you have enhancement or a narrow artifact you can

repeat with non-contrast CT and give the patient glucagon and you can find the small very these small arteries that pick off the left that commonly profuse the stomach the right gastric artery you can use your comb beam CT to find

non-target evaluation even when your angio doesn't suggest it so this is a patient they have recurrent HCC we didn't angio from here those arteries down there where those coils were looked funny even though the patient was

quote-unquote coiled off we did a comb beam CT and that little squiggly C shape structures that duodenum that's contrast going in it this would be probably a lethal event for the patient or certainly would require surgery if you

treated that much with y9t reposition the catheter deeper towards the lesion and you can repeat your comb beam CT and see that you don't have an hands minh sometimes you have these little accessory left gastric artery this is

where we really need your help you know a lot of times everyone's focused and I think the more eyes the better for these kind of things but we're looking for these little tiny vessels that sometimes hop out of the liver and back into the

stomach or up into the esophagus there's a very very small right gastric artery in this picture here this patient post hepatectomy that rides along the inferior surface of the liver it's a little curly cube so and this is a small

esophageal branch so when you do comb beam TT this is what the stomach looks like when it enhances and this is what the esophagus looks like when it enhances you can do non contrast comb beam CTS to confirm ablation so you have

a lesion this is the comb beam CT for enhancement you treat with your embolic and this is a post to determine that you've had completely shin coverage and you can see how that correlates a response so the last thing we're going

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