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Portal Vein Thrombosis|Thrombolysis|51|Male
Portal Vein Thrombosis|Thrombolysis|51|Male
2016aggressiveangioaspirationBoston ScientificBTG-IMcatheterclotdevicedistalekosextensiveintentionallyintrahepaticlikelihoodliverpatientportalsheathSIRtipstransjugulartransplantvein
Aspiration Thrombectomy | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Aspiration Thrombectomy | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
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Cone Beam CT | Interventional Oncology
Cone Beam CT | Interventional Oncology
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Complications & Pitfalls | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
Complications & Pitfalls | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
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Rheolytic Thrombectomy | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Rheolytic Thrombectomy | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
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Massive PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
Massive PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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The Last 5 Years in PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
The Last 5 Years in PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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Ideal Stent Placement | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
Ideal Stent Placement | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
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Indirect Angiography | Interventional Oncology
Indirect Angiography | Interventional Oncology
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Systemic vs Catheter-based Thrombolysis | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Systemic vs Catheter-based Thrombolysis | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
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Prospective CDT Trials | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
Prospective CDT Trials | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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Treatment Options- CAS- Embolic Protection Device (EPD)- Distal Protection | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
Treatment Options- CAS- Embolic Protection Device (EPD)- Distal Protection | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
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PV Access | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
PV Access | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
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Treatment Options- CAS- Embolic Protection Device (EPD)- Proximal Protection | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
Treatment Options- CAS- Embolic Protection Device (EPD)- Proximal Protection | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
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Mechanical Thrombectomy | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Mechanical Thrombectomy | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
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Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
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Treatment Options- TransCarotid Artery Revascularization- TCAR | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
Treatment Options- TransCarotid Artery Revascularization- TCAR | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
angiographyangioplastyarterybleedbloodcalcifiedcarotidchapterclaviclecommondebrisdevicedistalembolicembolizationexposurefemoralflowimageincisioninstitutionlabeledpatientprocedureprofileproximalreversalreversesheathstenosisstentstentingstepwisesurgicalsuturedsystemultimatelyveinvenousvessel
Diagnostic Criteria for CTEPH | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Diagnostic Criteria for CTEPH | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
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Ultrasound-assisted Catheter-directed Thrombolysis | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Ultrasound-assisted Catheter-directed Thrombolysis | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
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Submassive PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
Submassive PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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Case 1 - Non-healing heel wound, Rutherford Cat. 5, previous stroke | Recanalization, Atherectomy | Complex Above Knee Cases with Re-entry Devices and Techniques
Case 1 - Non-healing heel wound, Rutherford Cat. 5, previous stroke | Recanalization, Atherectomy | Complex Above Knee Cases with Re-entry Devices and Techniques
abnormalangioangioplastyarteryAsahiaspectBARDBoston Scientificcatheterchaptercommoncommon femoralcontralateralcritical limb ischemiacrossCROSSER CTO recanalization catheterCSICTO wiresdevicediseasedoppleressentiallyfemoralflowglidewiregramhawk oneHawkoneheeliliacimagingkneelateralleftluminalMedtronicmicromonophasicmultimultiphasicocclusionocclusionsoriginpatientsplaqueposteriorproximalpulserecanalizationrestoredtandemtibialtypicallyViance crossing catheterVictory™ Guidewirewaveformswirewireswoundwounds
Therapies for Acute PE | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Therapies for Acute PE | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
anticoagulantanticoagulationcatheterchapterclotcoumadindefensesdirectedheparininpatientintermediatelovenoxNonepatientpatientsplasminogenprocessriskrotationalstreptokinasesystemicsystemicallythrombectomythrombolysisthrombustpa
TIPS: Techniques- Stent Grafts | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
TIPS: Techniques- Stent Grafts | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
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The Disease Process | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
The Disease Process | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
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Education Strategies to Reduce Human Errors | Looking for risk in all the Right Places: The Anatomy of Errors in Healthcare
Education Strategies to Reduce Human Errors | Looking for risk in all the Right Places: The Anatomy of Errors in Healthcare
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Ablative Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
Ablative Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
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General Screening Criteria (specific to bleeding risk) | Risk Mitigation: Periprocedural Screening and Anticoagulation Guidelines to Reduce Interventional Radiology Bleeding Risks
General Screening Criteria (specific to bleeding risk) | Risk Mitigation: Periprocedural Screening and Anticoagulation Guidelines to Reduce Interventional Radiology Bleeding Risks
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TIPS: Techniques- CO2 Venography | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
TIPS: Techniques- CO2 Venography | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
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Stent Graft Deployment | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
Stent Graft Deployment | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
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Q&A Uterine Fibroid Embolization | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Q&A Uterine Fibroid Embolization | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
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Percutaneous Mechanical Intervention | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Percutaneous Mechanical Intervention | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
catheterchapterclotmassivemechanicalNonepatientpatientsPig Tail Catheterpigtailpulmonarysurgerythrombolytictpa
Transcript

51 year old man history of ulcerative colitis

PSC, he was completely asymptomatic. He had his one year screening CT that showed extensive portal vein thrombosis. No other imaging findings, he was a walkie-talkie. He actually was a maintenance man in our hospital.

So this is his prior CT from a year previously and this is his follow up CT that's actually extended well into the undivided extrahepatic portal vein almost to the level of the SMV. At our institution at that point in time this precluded the individual from transplant. He wasn't on the transplant list,

he had a MELD of probably six or eight. He was a long way away from his transplant but because of this finding he would have been excluded for a future consideration. So that point in time we decided to go ahead and do thrombolysis. A couple of different ways to do it ,

you can either do it from a TIPS approach. I tend to do it from a percutaneous access. So under [INAUDIBLE] guidance we percutaneously accessed the right portal vein. It actually was relatively easy to get through.

The other question with this particularly sensitive was some contrast around it, is was a chronic clot that hit surgery tract. But it was actually fairly easy to use an L35 system. We angiojeted it including the aspiration and then stopped the aspiration and injected it with Angiojet 6 milligrams of tPA.

We did what we could to aspirate any clot which wasn't particularly helpful. And there was very significant clot burden remaining. So at that point in time we decided to go ahead and do overnight infusion. This was the first time I used EKOS.

And this becomes important in this discussion. Intentionally I wanted everything to go as, just the way it would flow from the portal vein as possible. So I didn't just wanna get the main portal vein but I also wanted to get the intrahepatic sections of the portal vein simply to

increase my likelihood of getting flow. So we start tPA to a milligram an hour which is usually what I do. Heparin 400 units and admitted to ICU, he was just fine at this point in time. This is the spot film that I took from the image. Here's your EKOS catheter. This I tributed to the distal length of my sheath and then here was,

just to extend the catheter. Patient became unstable overnight rather rapidly. The on-call team came in and the first thing they did was up size the sheath thinking that might be part of the problem. He had an Emergent CT that showed massive hemorrhage into the peritoneum. We actually got a surgeon to go ahead and

take him for a lap even though he had just been on tPA an hour before. They packed the liver that was really all they could do. The patient went into rapid DIC, multi organ failure, and expired. And again, I wanted to thank you guys for putting me up here with

this case. So when the on-call team came in, and they noticed that the EKOS catheter was essentially all the way out, they exchanged the sheath which is seen here and advanced it much more distally into the undivided right. This was his hemoperitoneum.

So likely we think what happened is that he just oozed from his liver puncture site and that he had a perihepatic subcapsular hematoma that as it expanded, retracted the sheath and the EKOS catheter to the point where the sheath was probably outside of the liver and then there was no [UNKNOWN].

That's what we were thinking. However, and this is the M&M part of this case. This is the distal extent of the sheath that was used during the up sizing by my colleague and Paul and this if you remember was the first image that I showed you from our final spot image. That's what I attributed to the distal sheath,

as it turns out as you blow that up, really the distal sheath is right here. So again I intentionally use the short sheath because I wanted intrahepatic flow, her intrahepatic tPA and I misinterpreted the image. There you go.

A little bit better, it's a little fuzzy. But again, this is the end of the EKOS catheter. >> Was that a larger remark about the EKOS catheter? [LAUGH] >> No.

No. This is- >> It only burnt once. >> This is a [UNKNOWN] So my problem with this is I used a new device and a very complex case so relatively complex case that had a high likelihood in my mind of going wrong. Especially is devastating

in this individual who the day he walked into the Angio suite, he walked into the Angio suite. The other thing, and this happens to everybody in this room, is that you feel rushed, right? This case was taken significantly longer than I thought it would by a couple of hours and as you're tiding up the room whether it's you in the room or one of your colleagues you feel

a little bit rush and you wanna get things moving. So I think a couple of issues that I learn from this case are, one, any time you're unfamiliar with a device no matter what device you're using, it's important to do two things. One is to dry lab it on the table before you use it if you can unless it's[INAUDIBLE]

And then secondly, to fluoral/g it because I really had no idea what the device looked like under fluoroscopy. I also used the sheath that I don't normally use that didn't have a radio peak/g marker on the end. So this was a consolation of mistake followed by a mistake, followed

by a mistake. And I guess I will end there and take any questions if you have. >> What do you think about transjugular in this case, I mean we had a very similar case. Actually this should have been the right thing, we did transjugular access, lysed, opened it up, left the TIPS to be nice so that it doesn't clot again,

it has that advantage as well. But then our [INAUDIBLE] his enzymes were kind of moving around and they wanted to check the [INAUDIBLE] And one of my colleagues went directly instead of checking from the existing shunt. And then that patient bled a lot and died eventually. So in these [UNKNOWN] patients,

I vary a lot coming [UNKNOWN] especially if we're doing this tPA etc. Would you in the future choose [INAUDIBLE] >> So let me take you through my thought process. My thought process was this guy had absolutely extensive TVT in every intrahepatic branch that you could think of.

So my concern with doing [UNKNOWN] TIPS is was I gonna be able to mechanically clear any of the intrahepatic clot? I thought the answer of that was no, which is why we went pre percutaneous. We're aggressive with the Angiojet, we were aggressive with balloon [UNKNOWN] We were aggressive with aspiration.

In retrospect, not the way to do it, I'm pretty sure. >> [APPLAUSE]

thrombectomy is another popular way of treating patients there's a lot of different aspiration catheters the SPX catheter is actually not available currently in the US but what it basically is I can have the rectum a

device that spins in such backlot the Indigo thrombectomy system from penumbra is a yet another device that sucks out clot I think many of us have used that it's kind of like a vacuum cleaner but usually more like a dust

hand vac where it's going to suck up thrombus the angio vac is much more like a Hoover where you're going to use and put a patient on veno-venous bypass that requires a 22 French sheath and a 17 French sheath but that will take out

thrombus I personally prefer using NGO vac in the IVC in big large thrombus for that and not in the pulmonary arteries because it's very inflexible but it's very very useful in a few patient populations in

all of these devices there is no TPA that needs to be given you're just sucking out the clot and you're actually removing it from the patient's body rather than dissolving it and sending it downstream the drawbacks on all of these

devices is their larger access points the SP or X is around six French although that's not that much bigger penumbra device is 8 French and the as we mentioned the angio vac is 22 French

know we're running a bit short on time so I want to briefly just touch about

some techniques with comb beam CT which are very helpful to us there are a lot of reasons why you should use comb beam CT it gives us the the most extensive anatomic understanding of vascular territories and the implications for

that with oncology are extremely valuable because of things like margin like we discussed here's an example of a patient who had a high AF P and their bloodstream which tells us that they have a cancer in her liver we can't see

it on the CT there but if you do a cone beam CT it stands up quite nicely why because you're giving levels of contrast that if you were to give them through a peripheral IV it would be toxic to the patient but when you're infusing into a

segment the body tolerates at the problem so patient preparation anxa lysis is key you have them exhale above three seconds prior to that there's a lot of change to how we're doing this people who are introducing radial access

power injection anywhere from about 50 to even sometimes thirty to a hundred percent contrast depends on what phase you're imaging we have a Animoto power injector that allows us to slide what contrast concentration we like a lot of

times people just rely on 30% and do their whole the case with that some people do a hundred percent image quality this is what it looks like when someone's breathing this is very difficult to tell if there's complete

lesion enhancement so if you do your comb beam CT know it looks like this this is trying to coach the patient and try to get them to hold still and then this is the patient after coaching which looks like this so you can tell that you

have a missing portion of the lesion and you have to treat into another segment what about when you're doing an angio and you do a cone beam CT NIT looks like this this is what insufficient counts looks like on comb beam so when you see

these sort of Shell station lines that are going all over the screen you have to raise dose usually in larger patients but this is you know you either slow down the acquisition speed of your comb beam or

you raise dose this is what it looks like after we gave it a higher dose protocol it really changes everything those lines are still there but they're much smaller how do you know if you have enhancement or a narrow artifact you can

repeat with non-contrast CT and give the patient glucagon and you can find the small very these small arteries that pick off the left that commonly profuse the stomach the right gastric artery you can use your comb beam CT to find

non-target evaluation even when your angio doesn't suggest it so this is a patient they have recurrent HCC we didn't angio from here those arteries down there where those coils were looked funny even though the patient was

quote-unquote coiled off we did a comb beam CT and that little squiggly C shape structures that duodenum that's contrast going in it this would be probably a lethal event for the patient or certainly would require surgery if you

treated that much with y9t reposition the catheter deeper towards the lesion and you can repeat your comb beam CT and see that you don't have an hands minh sometimes you have these little accessory left gastric artery this is

where we really need your help you know a lot of times everyone's focused and I think the more eyes the better for these kind of things but we're looking for these little tiny vessels that sometimes hop out of the liver and back into the

stomach or up into the esophagus there's a very very small right gastric artery in this picture here this patient post hepatectomy that rides along the inferior surface of the liver it's a little curly cube so and this is a small

esophageal branch so when you do comb beam TT this is what the stomach looks like when it enhances and this is what the esophagus looks like when it enhances you can do non contrast comb beam CTS to confirm ablation so you have

a lesion this is the comb beam CT for enhancement you treat with your embolic and this is a post to determine that you've had completely shin coverage and you can see how that correlates a response so the last thing we're going

people were thinking about the covered

portion actually actually would be occlusive in that paddock veins a lot of people are concerned about that this could be kind of like a but carry you're gonna actually occlude flow in the paddy vein caused thromboses that didn't pan

out at least clinically okay it didn't pan out and that's another advantage of actually accessing very close to the paddock vein IVC junction that's where the biggest vein is so you don't get a lot of occlusive problems okay but

usually clinically it does not pan out so the bigger the hepatic vein the more likely you have a lot of room around your your graft you won't be occlusive to the paddock vein that's more important for for transplants than other

than others I told you it's rare this is actually a very rare case of such that where you actually have a segmental segmental kind of but carry after a tips okay and you know this is actually from a form of venous outflow from the ematic

vein this is a perfusion defect typical it's a wedge right typical perfusion defect in the liver that's how you death so you know this is vascular this is a perfusion problem but you've got hepatic artery readout artery the red arrows

running into the segments and you have portal vein running into the segments so what's the problem it's actually a paddock vein occlusion okay by the stents subclinical no no clinical complaints you let it be

in the patients usually recover okay treat the patients and not the images okay on the other side if you put their tips too deep sometimes you actually get thromboses of the portal vein branch

again you get a call from hepatology you've got portal vein thrombosis is the patient doing okay yes treat the patient and not the images they usually resolve this it's not not a big problem another technical problem

I'm gonna focus mostly on technical for you guys this is a but key area okay and the but carry especially in the acute stage the liver is not like a cirrhotic liver is big liver is actually engorged okay so it's very large usually

your needle is too short to even reach the portal vein okay that's a big problem okay because your access needle is too short for a very large engorged the portal vein so this is as deep as it

goes do I have a see that that do you see that needle tip that's as deep as the needle tip goes okay the portal vein is a good distance away okay luckily this is a co2 porta gram luckily I'm actually in a small branch right

there I just hit it on you know and on this is not the there's not a needle tract this is just luckily hitting it a little branch and on so I'm actually accessing the portal vein and I can do a co2 porta gram here okay

typical inexperienced person would say you know this looks good I'm lucky I'm in a branch but it's a nice smooth curve I'll just pass a wire down and I'll balloon it and I'll put a stent in it's a nice curve and you know so it's my

lucky day I don't need to extend my needle or get a bigger longer needle to reach the portal vein here's the problem with this and this is exactly what this is exactly what this is they pass a wire and it looks beautiful just put a stent

and go home okay here's the problem this is actually the small branch access sites this is actually where you really need to access world vane but your needle is not long enough okay

what we found out is that if you are in a small in a small portal vein no matter how much you balloon it it will come down again and it will be narrow so believe it or not if you go sideways in a portal vein and rip it open with a

balloon it will stay open but if you go down of small portal vein and balloon it open it will always contract down okay so you cannot do a tips simply by ballooning and putting a stent in in this case okay what we do is we actually

denude the vein itself we actually rip it off okay and make it a raw parenchyma and we do that with a Tortola device we literally rip off the paddock the paddock portal sorry the portal vein endothelium and media and adventitia rip

it off make it completely raw as if it's an access as if it's a liver brain coma which is which it is now and then we then we balloon dilates okay rip it off denude it angioplasty it's okay and then put the stent and see that aggression

despite all that aggression of ripping it off it still has an hour kind of an hourglass shape to the to the tips okay that little constraint there that's the hepatic venous access sites this is the parenchymal tract to see nice and open

with a balloon but the but the actual vein that we've been through despite our aggression in actually ripping it off it's still narrowed down but this is as good as it gets okay

access reowww lytic thrombectomy or the angio jet device which is the most frequently used device for this what it does is basic disrupts the clot by shooting out TPA

embeds it into the clot and then you suck it up using suction thrombectomy using the venturi effect and you aspirate some of the clot and you can see that here that's a picture from I think the angio jet website the benefit

is that it can be you can use it without TPA and just use the suction thrombectomy mode with heparinized saline and that can be helpful to help break up some clot the drawbacks is that it has a black box warning from the FDA

so we do this every once in a while in the right patient but this is definitely not recommended by the company or anyone for that matter but it does work in some cases and the main reason is that the the vibrations caused by the device can

cause significant bradycardia in addition to the bradycardia that you get from red blood cell really lysis that you get with these devices so you actually couldn't cause arrhythmia on top of bradycardia which sounds like a

bad a bad combination and these patients can get hemodynamic collapse and die right on the table just cuz you turned on the device so that being said we've all I think done it once or twice I've seen I've only done it once and I never

do it again because a patient coded one of my colleagues did it on a patient because the patient was already coding said well what's the harm and that patient survived they did better actually because we were able to break

up the clot so I will say that if you do it and the patient doesn't do well you really don't have a leg to stand on because right on the cover of the packaging it says do not use in the pulmonary arteries aspiration

about massive PE so let's remember this slide 25 to 65 percent mortality what do we do with this what's our goal what's

our role as interventionalists here well we need to rescue these patients from death you know this it's a coin flip that they're going to die we need to really that there's only one job we have is to save this person's life get them

out of that vicious cycle get more blood into the left ventricle and get their systemic blood pressure up what are our tools systemic thrombolysis at the top catherine directed therapy at the right and surgical level that what

unblocked me at the left as I said before the easiest thing to do is put an IV in and give systemic thrombolysis but what's interesting is it's very much underused so this is a study from Paul Stein he looked at the National

inpatient sample database and he found that patients that got thrombolytic therapy with hypotension and this is all based on icd-10 coding actually had a better outcome than those who didn't we have several other studies that support

this but you look at this and it seems like our use of thrombolytics and massive PE is going down and I think into the for whatever reason that that the specter of bleeding is really on people's minds and and for and we're not

using systemic thrombolysis as often as we should that being said there are cases in which thrombolytics are contraindicated or in which they fail and that opens the door for these other therapies surgical unblocked demand

catheter active therapy surgical unblocked mean really does have a role here I'm not going to speak about it because I'm an interventionist but we can't forget that so catheter directed therapy all sorts

of potential options you got the angio vac device over here you've got the penumbra cat 8 device here you've got an infusion catheter both here and here you've got the cleaner device I haven't pictured the inari float

Reaver which is a great new device that's entered the market as well my message to you is that you can throw the kitchen sink at these patients whatever it takes to open up a channel and get blood to the left ventricle you can do

now that being said there is the angio jet which has a blackbox warning in the pulmonary artery I will never use it because I'm not used to using it but you talk to Alan Matsumoto Zieve Haskell these guys have a lot of experience with

the androgen and PE they know how to use it but I would say though they're the only two people that I know that should use that device because it is associated with increased death within the setting of PE we don't really know you know with

great precision why that happens but theoretically what that causes is a release of adenosine can cause bradycardia bradycardia and massive p/e they just don't mix well so

individually into each one of these trials but I want to just point out to you how busy the last 5 years have been because it has really caused a

resurgence in our interest in both treating PE better and what the gaps are in our knowledge so I will point out in 2014 this was an inflection point for 10 years we didn't have a major trial actually more like 12 or 15 years we

hadn't had a major trial in in PE and pytho was a 1000 patient study that informed us about how systemic thrombolytics interact with sub massive P and I'll go through the data that same year

catheterized thrombolysis is everybody familiar with catheter at the thrombolysis for submasters before Pease that's totally off the grid okay good well this was the first time we had a randomized trial for catheter directly

thrombolysis with some with some massive PE only problem was it was 59 patients in Europe so and that's all we have as far as randomized trials for CDT this is my soapbox issue I'm sorry if you've heard me say this but that's that's my

big goal is to try to change that 2015 had some follow-on CDT trials 2017 this is when we started thinking about the long term effects of PE on patients both of these studies started to examine the issue where a year after the PE patients

are not normal if you did a for example this elope long term study almost 50% of patients had an abnormal cardio pulmonary function test one year later 2018 we started to experiment with the dosage that we're

administering during CDT that's the optimized trial and we saw the first trial completed for a mechanical device called the NRA flow trailer which I'll show you later in the talk as well so that was an exciting inflection point as

well the extract PE trial which uses the indigo cat 8 device to aspirate thrombus in pulmonary embolism we just completed enrollment this year the future is hopefully bright for generating more data the PERT consortium registry is up

and running and is hopefully going to help us aggregate data and make better decisions and then you have a couple more devices coming in and I'll tell you our efforts to try to really improve the knowledge base on what CDT for sub

massive P that's the P track trial that's the last bullet point there okay

stamp placement we talked a little bit about it I'm gonna talk to you a little

bit more about it and ideal stance is a straight stance that has a nice smooth curve with a portal vein and a nice smooth curve with a bad igneous end well you don't want is it is a tips that T's the sealing of the hepatic vein okay

that closes it okay and if there's a problem in the future it's very difficult to select okay or impossible to select okay you want it nice and smooth with a patek vein and IVC so you can actually get into it and it actually

has a nice hemodynamic outflow the same thing with the portal thing what you don't want is slamming at the floor of the portal vein and teeing that that floor where where it actually portly occludes your shunts okay or gives you a

hard time selecting the portal vein once you're in the tips in any future tips revisions okay other things you need it nice and straight so you do not want long curves new or torqued or kinks in your tips you

a nice aggressive decompressive tips that is nice and straight and opens up the tips shunt okay we talked a little bit you don't want it you don't want to tee the kind of the ceiling of the of the hepatic vein another problem that we

found out you want that tips stance to extend to the hepatic vein IVC Junction you do not want it to fall short of the paddock vein IVC Junction much okay much is usually a centimeter or centimeter and a half is it is acceptable

the problem with hepatic veins and this is the same pathology as the good old graft dialysis grafts what is the common sites of dialysis graft narrowing at the venous anastomosis why for this reason it's the same pathogenesis veins whether

it's in your arm for analysis whether it's in your liver or anywhere are designed for low flow low turbidity flow of the blood okay if you subject a vein of any type to high turbot high velocity flow it reacts by thickening its walls

it reacts by new intimal hyperplasia so if you put a big shunt which increases volume and increased flow turbidity in that area in that appear again the hepatic vein reacts by causing new into our plays you actually get a narrowing

of the Phatak vein right distal to the to the to the Patek venous end of the shunt so you need to take it all the way to the Big C to the IVC okay how much time do I have half an hour huh 17 minutes okay

Viator stents is one way let's say you don't have a variety or stent many countries you don't have a virus then what's an alternative do a barre covered stem combination you put a wall stent and then put a covered stance on the

inside okay so put a wall stent a good old-fashioned you know oldie but a goodie is is a 1094 okay you just put a ten nine four Wahl cent which is the go to walls down so I go to stand for tips before Viator

and then put a cover sentence inside whatever it is it's a could be a fluency it could be a could be a vibe on and and do that so that's another alternative for tips we talked about an ace tips as a central straight tips and it's not out

and fishing out in the periphery okay this is an occlusion with a wall stance this is why we use think this is why now we use stent grafts this is complete occlusion of the tips we're injecting contrast this is not the coral vein this

is actually the Billy retreat visit ptc okay that's a big Billy leaked into the into the tips okay and that's why we use covered stance I'm gonna move forward on this in early and early and experienced

to talk about is indirect angiography this is kind of a neat trick to suggest to your intervention list as a problem solver we were asked to ablate this lesion and it looked kind of funny this patient had a resection for HCC they

thought this was a recurrence so we bring the comb beam CT and we do an angio and it doesn't enhance so this is an image here of indirect port ography so what you can do is an SMA run and see at which point along the

run do you pacify the portal vein and you just set up your cone beam CT for that time so you just repeat your injection and now your pacifying the entire portal vein even though you haven't selected it and what to show

well this was a portal aneurysm after resection with a little bit of clot in it the patient went on some aspirin and it resolved in three months so back to our first patient what do you do for someone who has HCC that's invading the

heart this patient underwent 2y 90s bland embolization microwave ablation chemotherapy and SBRT and he's an eight-year survivor so it's one of those things where certainly with the correct patient selection you can find the right

things to do for someone I think that usually our best results come from our interdisciplinary consensus in terms of trying to use the unique advantages that individual therapies have and IO is just one of those but this is an important

lesson to our whole group that you know a lot of times you get your best results when you use things like a team approach so in summary there are applications to IO prior to surgery to make people surgical candidates there are definitive

treatments ie your cancer will be treated definitively with curative intent a lot of times we can save when people have tried cure intent and weren't able to and obviously to palliate folks to try to buy them time

and quality of life thermal ablation is safe and effective for small lesions but it's limited by the adjacent anatomy y9t is not an ischemic therapy it's an ablative therapy you're putting small ablative radioactive particles within

the lesion and just using the blood supply as a conduit for your brachytherapy and you can use this as a new admin application to make people safer surgical candidates when you apply to the entire ride a panic globe

thanks everyone appreciate it [Applause] [Music]

a little bit more systemic versus catheter directed thrombolysis so once you've decided that a patient needs TPA what are the differences here well if

you give patients systemic TPA you're gonna give them a much more rapid delivery this is for those patients who have high-risk PE they're the ones who are coding for those patients you give them 200 milligrams of IV usually you

get 50 first and then another 150 over a very short time period they have a very high risk of bleeding as a result of that a catheter is much slower you're gonna infuse one milligram maybe which is what I think most people do

over several hours maybe a few maybe a day so it's slower targeted versus non targeted well catheter is much more targeted you're gonna give Pete you're gonna give the TPA right into the

pulmonary arteries that's the whole point in our in our thought process as a result you give a lot less drug so when you give a patient based off of some of the trials 24 milligrams of TPA over a 24-hour period that's a lot less than

200 milligrams in a 10 minute period and then the bleeding risk is very different for these patients catheter based treatments have a high bleeding risk but it's possibly lower than the initial bleeding risk of patients getting

systemic TPA so I wanted to go through a

these are our prospective CDT trials it's a lot to go through them so I'm not going to suffice it to say that the only one of these that is randomized is the

one in the top left the ultimate trial with 59 patients the rest of these are single set are single arm studies the optimized trial was randomized but the key arm it did not have was a control arm so all it did was vary the amount of

drug but there was no control arm to tell us how are people doing if they just get heparin well and I'll show you one result from these trials that is the most important result and that is up from the ultimate trial at 24 hours CDT

catheter to thrombolysis reduces the RV to lv ratio to a greater extent than heparin alone what does that mean so you saw all those pictures with the big dilated right ventricles our surrogate measure for right ventricular

dysfunction is the ratio of the diameter the inner diameter of the right ventricle to the left ventricle what we found in this study was that that ratio got reduced to a greater extent at 24 hours in the CDT arm compared to heparin

alone that means that CDT seems to reduce our V dysfunction faster than heparin now importantly 30 days later the echos looked identical so really it's a question of time which is not surprising what we've noticed in

our practice is that patients feel better faster okay I'm gonna go through the rest of this because I'm out of time but I want to give you a little bit of a sense of where we're going because there's bleeding associated with CDT and

maybe I'll show you this that in the Seattle to trial there was an 11% major bleeding rate now this was a pretty conservative definition but there were some serious bleeds and there were no intracranial

hemorrhages in this study but we have realized that CDT is not risk-free it's not like we've all of a sudden gained all of the advantages of systemic thrombolytics and none of the disadvantages now the rate of

intracranial hemorrhage seems to be about tenfold less but it does happen about 0.2 to 0.4% of the time the rate of major bleeding seems to be about 5% which is about half the rate of major bleeding that we see with system or

thrombosis so bleeding is still there it just doesn't seem to be as frequent so that's where some of these other devices are coming in then our a float Reaver the the the extra penumbra indigo cat 8 device and so the the float Reaver is

has actually gone through the full trial and the results are about to be published what is this thing well it's this pretty big hose which is about 20 French and it goes through the right heart and goes up there and it takes

this clot and literally aspirates it out and these are some of the things that will come out and that's sort of your post picture right there the data showed something similar to what we saw with the catheter directed thrombolysis

trials they had looked at 106 patients are vlv ratio was reduced again there's no comparator arm here so this is just the device on its own with a 3.8 percent adverse event rate and so now we're talking about mechanical devices that

don't use a clot-busting medication therefore you're gonna you can expect less bleeding but you're trading some of that off for a mechanical device that can cause injury to either myocardial structures or to the pulmonary artery so

that's something we have to be highly cognizant of as they're introduced into the market this is the penumbra cat 8 this is from Jim Benenati publication basically showing a couple things that's the separator that is the actual

catheter and that's the sheath back there so you've got poor profusion because of a clot in the inter lobar pulmonary artery and then at the end of it you have better perfusion for lung down there so we actually just completed

enrollment into the extract PE trial 120 sub massive PE patients the same efficacy endpoint you have to remember that has been established by the FDA as a way to get approval this is not the final

study nor should it be the final study when we evaluate these devices so to summarize sub massive PE what does the data not tell us CDT probably reduces the RV to LV ratio at 24 hours that is the main outcome that I want you

guys to remember from the ultimate trial it's associated you didn't see this data so don't worry about that we do see major bleeding and sometimes rarely but sometimes we see intracranial bleeding with CDT as well so what we're missing

from catheter directed thrombosis for sub massive PE is what are the clinical outcomes the RV to LV ratio is a surrogate outcome what about death what about clinical deterioration what about recurrent hospitalization what

about recurrent VTE how are people doing in the long term are they walking as well as they were before we don't know any of this none of the data right so far can tell us any of this information so where do we go from here for sub

kind of the embolic protection because I think with carotid artery stenting the stents there's a lot of different types they're all self expanding for the most

part and there's not a lot to talk about there but there is with regards to embolic protection and there so there's distal and violent protection where you have this where that blue little sheath in the common carotid artery you got a

wire through the ica stenosis and a little basket or filter distally before you put the stent in early on they used to think oh maybe we'll do distal balloon occlusion put a balloon up distally do your intervention aspirate

whatever collects behind the balloon and then take the balloon down not so ideal because you never really asked for it a hundred percent of the debris and then whatever whenever you deflate the balloon it goes back it goes up to the

brain you still have some embolic phenomenon in the cerebral vascular churn and then there's this newer concept of proximal protection where you use either flow reversal reverse the blood flow in the cerebral circulation

or you actually cause a stagnant column of blood in the ica so you can't get you don't get anything that embolize is up distally but you have this stagnant column the debris collects there you aspirate that actively before you take

down the balloons that are in position in the X carotids and common carotid artery and then you take everything out so let's walk through each of these if you really wanted to pick out the perfect embolic

protection device it's got to be relatively easy to use it's got to be stable in position so it's not moving up and down and causing injury to the vessel but even while it's in place cerebral perfusion is maintained so that

balloon the distal balloon not a great idea because you're cutting off all the blood flow to the brain you might stop something from embolizing up distally but in the process of doing that you may patient may not tolerate that you want

complete protection during all aspects of the procedure so when we place a filter as you'll see just crossing the lesion with the initial filter can cause a distal embolus so that's a problem you want to be able to use your guide wire

choice as many of you know when we go through peripheral vasculature there's your go-to wires but it doesn't always work every time with that one go-to wire so you want to be able to pick the wire that you want to use or

change it up if needed for different lesions so if you get to use your wire of choice then then that's gonna be a better system than something that's man deter and then if you have a hard time using that wire to get across the lesion

you have a problem overall and then ultimately where do you land that protection device and a few diagrams here to help illustrate this generally speaking these distal embolic protection these filters that go beyond

the lesion have been used for quite a while and are relatively safe you can see them pretty easily and geographically they have little markers on them that signify if they're open or closed and we look for that overall and

blood flows through them it's just a little sieve a little basket that collects really tiny particles micrometers in size but allows blood flow to pass through it so you're not actually causing any cessation of blood

flow to the brain but you are protecting yourself from that embolic debris and it's generally well tolerated overall we had really good results in fact when not using this device there's a lot of strokes that were occurring in use of

this device dramatic reduction so a significant improvement in this procedural area by utilization of embolic protection however distal embolic protection or filter devices are not a perfect APD as you as you may know

those of you have been involved in carotid stenting there is no cerebral protection when you cross the lesion if you have a curlicue internal carotid artery this filter doesn't sit right and and ultimately may not cause

good protection or actually capture everything that breaks off the plaque and it can be difficult to deliver in those really tortuous internal carotid arteries so ultimately you can cross the lesion but you may not get this filter

up if you don't get the filter up you can't put the stent then ultimately you're out of luck so you gotta have a different option filters may not provide complete cerebral protection if they're not fully opposed and again it does

allow passage of really tiny particles right so your blood cells have to be able to pass but even though it's less than about a hundred microns may be significant enough to cause a significant stroke if it goes to the

right basket of territory so it's not perfect protection and then if you have so much debris you can actually overload the filter fill it up in tile and entirely and then you have a point where when you capture the filter there's some

residual debris that's never fully captured either so these are concerns and then ultimately with that filter in place you can cause a vessel dissection when you try to remove it or if it's bouncing up and down without good

stability you can cause spasm to the vessel as well and so these are the things that we look for frequently because we want to make sure that ultimately if we just sent the lesion but we don't believe the vessel distal

to it intact and we're going to have a problem so here's some kind of illustrated diagrams for this here's a sheath in the common carotid artery you see your plaque lesion in the internal carotid artery and you're trying to

cross this with that filter device that's what's the picture on the right but as you're crossing that lesion you're you're liberating a little plaque or debris which you see here and during that period of time until the filters in

place you're not protected so all that debris is going up to the brain so there's that first part of the procedure where you're not protected that's one of the pitfalls or concerns particularly with very stenotic lesions or friable

lesions like this where you're not protected until that filters in place that first step you never are protected in placement of a filter here's an example where you have a torturous internal carotid artery so you see this

real kink these are kinds of carotid internal carotid arteries that we can see and if you place that filter in that bend that you can see right at the bend there the bottom part the undersurface of the carotid doesn't have good wall

my position of the filter so debris can can slip past the filter on the under under surface of this which is a real phenomenon and you can see that you can say well what if we oversize the filter if you oversize the filter then it then

it just oval eyes Azure or it crimps and in folds on itself so you really have to size this to the specific vessel that you plan to target it in but just the the physics of this it's it's a tube think about a balloon a balloon doesn't

conform to this it tries to straighten everything out this isn't going to straighten the vessel out so it doesn't fully conform on the full end of the filter and you have incomplete a position and therefore

incomplete filtration so this is another failure mode I mentioned before what if it gets overloaded so here's a diagram where you have all this debris coming up it's filling up the really tiny tiny particles go past it because this little

micro sieve allows really small particles to go distal but approximately it's overloaded so now you get all this debris in there you place your stent you take your retrieval filter or catheter to take this filter out and all that

stuff that's sitting between the overloaded filter and your stent then gets liberated and goes up to the brain so you got to worry about that as well I mentioned this scenario that it builds up so much so that you can't get all the

debris out and ultimately you lose some and then when the filter is full and debris particles that are suspended near the stent or if you put that filter too close to the edge of the stent you run into problems where it may catch the

stent overall and you have all of this debris and it looks small and you don't really see it and geographically obviously but ultimately is when you do a stroke assessment and it's not always devastating strokes but mild symptoms

where he had a stroke neurologist and the crest trial or most of the more recent clinical trials we actually evaluate a patient and notice that they had small maybe sub sub clinical or mild strokes that were noted they weren't

perhaps devastating strokes but they had things that caused some degree of disability so not insignificant here's a case example of a carotid stent that was done this is a case out of Arizona proximal carotid

stenosis stent placed but then distal thrombus that developed in this case and had post rhombus removal after the epd was removed so there's thrombus overloaded the the filter you can see the filter at the very top of the center

image you can see the sort of the shadow of the embolic protection device there distally aspirated that took the filter out and then ultimately removed but you can imagine that amount of thrombus up in the brain would have been a

devastating stroke and this is what the filter looks like in real life so this is what the debris may look like so it's not this is not overloaded but that's significant debris and you can see the little film or sieve that's on the

distal part of this basket and that's what captures the debris any of that in the brain is gonna leave this patient with a residual stroke despite a successful stenting procedure so this is what we're trying to avoid so in spite

so this shows you this shows you how so this typically you've accessed the portal vein now and you're in next up you basically pass the wire down this just gives you a little depiction of

what you're what you're what you're doing here this think of this is a sagittal and Deliver okay hepatic vein and portal vein it's the sagittal and what you're trying to do is

and if you're in the right hepatic vein you need to pass your needle anteriorly to hit the right portal vein okay and the right portal vein is usually anterior and interfere to the Patek vein okay so you pass your wire you're you

NEET your needle and when if you're missing the portal vein usually what's happening is that you're scooping behind it okay your posterior to it and sometimes you'll find the operators will actually increase the curve in the

needle so they can actually reach anterior anterior and actually hit the portal vein because usually usually if you if you know you're in the right place that the right hepatic vein not in the middle of petting vain and

you're missing the portal vein you need to reach anterior more so they put a little extra curve in the kelp into needle to actually catch that right portal vein okay with liver cirrhosis you get shrinking shrinkage of the liver

size the liver decreases the portal vein starts moving more anterior and more superior and closer to that paddock vein okay and it becomes more and more difficult to actually hit it so the smaller the liver the harder the liver

the smaller the space and you've got a thick mat piece of metal okay it's very difficult to hit that okay it becomes more and more challenging with with smaller levels to hit to hit the portal vein especially centrally okay this is

an access kit a new access kit by Gore it's basically the similar to the similar to the Cal Pinto needle it's a little longer with a little bit increase angulation compared to the traditional ring kits or the Cole Pinto needle but

once accessed you pass a wire okay into the portal circulation there are two ways of doing this okay there's a traditional old-school way that's my way is that to use a Benson wire okay the youngsters the Millennials are using

glide wires okay so if you're dealing with a millennial physician they're usually going for the glide okay if you're dealing with them with an older you know guy or gal they're using usually using a Benson wire okay the

advantage of the Benson wire is that has a floppy tip it actually you just push it in and hits the wall it prolapses into the main portal vein right away as you can see just prolapse and portal vein if you're using a glide where

you're catching all sorts of things you'll have small branches you don't know where you're going your V's even sometimes dissecting outside of the portal vein they're second-guessing themselves all the time but actually the

good way with a little bit of more different skillset is that you use use actual good old fashioned Benson wire actually goes in prolapses right away into the ends of the main into the main portal vein rarely would I actually use

light or switch to a glare that's usually if I'm coming in in a small in a small branch or an orchid angle where I have to use a glide right to try to get around the angle because I don't have enough room for a Benson to actually hit

the wall and prolapse is very really really tight space so tights Bates funny angles I'll switch to a glide where if it's a straight forward a Benson as very is very straight forward okay try to get the sheath as much into the portal vein

over the over the needle over the wire as possible and then you balloon your tract okay through the sheath okay some people will balloon with a six millimeter boom some people will balloon with an eight millimeter blue eye

balloon with an eight four okay at night and I make sure it's a four so that I actually use the balloon as the measurements for this four centimeters actually you I actually use the balloon to measure my to measure my Viator's

stance okay with the balloon there there'll be two waists there's a portal venous entry site and the Ematic venous entry site so you actually gauge that and take a picture of it so you actually see how long your tract is where's your

hepatic venous access who has your portal venous axis actually gives you a lot of anatomy here been engaging in actually putting where your Viator stent is okay usually high pressure balloon I use it and ate some people will use a

six or even a seven millimeter balloon

of these issues filters are generally still use or were used up until a few years ago or five years ago almost exclusively and then between five years and a decade ago there was this new concept of proximal protection or flow

reversal that came about and so this is the scenario where you don't actually cross the lesion but you place a couple balloons one in the external carotid artery one in the common carotid artery and you stop any blood flow that's going

through the internal carotid artery overall so if there's no blood flowing up there then when you cross the lesion without any blood flow there's nothing nowhere for it to go the debris that that is and then you can angioplasty and

or stent and then ultimately place your stent and then get out and then aspirate all of that column of stagnant blood before you deflate the balloons and take your device out so step-by-step I'll walk through this a couple times because

it's a little confusing at least it was for me the first time I was doing this but common carotid artery clamping just like they do in surgery right I showed you the pictures of the surgical into our directa me they do the vessel loops

around the common carotid approximately the eca and the ICA and then actually of clamping each of those sites before they open up the vessel and then they in a sequential organized reproducible manner uncle Dee clamp or unclamp each of those

sites in the reverse order similar to this balloon this is an endovascular clamping if you will so you place this common carotid balloon that's that bottom circle there you inflate you you have that clamping that occurs right

so what happens then is that you've taken off the antegrade blood flow in that common carotid artery on that side you have retrograde blood flow that's coming through from the controller circulation and you have reverse blood

flow from the ECA the external carotid artery from the contralateral side that can retrograde fill the distal common carotid stump and go up the ica ultimately then you can suspend the antegrade blood flow up the common

carotid artery as I said and then you clamp or balloon occlude the external carotid artery so now if you include the external carotid artery that second circle now you have this dark red column of blood up the distal common carotid

artery all the way up the internal carotid artery up until you get the Circle of Willis Circle of Willis allows cross filling a blood on the contralateral side so the patient doesn't undergo stroke because they've

got an intact circulation and they're able to tolerate this for a period of time now you can generally do these with patients awake and assess their ability to tolerate this if they don't tolerate this because of incomplete circle or

incomplete circulation intracranial injury really well then you can you can actually condition the patient to tolerate this or do this fairly quickly because once the balloons are inflated you can move fairly quickly and be done

or do this in stepwise fashion if you do this in combination with two balloons up you have this cessation of blood flow in in the internal carotid artery you do your angioplasty or stenting and post angioplasty if need be and then you

aspirate your your sheath that whole stagnant column of blood you aspirate that with 320 CC syringes so all that blood that's in there and you can check out what you see in the filter but after that point you've taken all that blood

that was sitting there stagnant and then you deflate the balloons you deflate them in stepwise order so this is what happens you get your o 35 stiff wire up into the external carotid artery once it's in the external cart or you do not

want to engage with the lesion itself you take your diagnostic catheter up into the external carotid artery once you're up there you take your stiff wire right so an amp lats wire placed somewhere in the distal external carotid

artery once that's in there you get your sheath in place and then you get your moment devices a nine French device overall and it has to come up and place this with two markers the proximal or sorry that distal markers in the

proximal external carotid artery that's what this picture shows here the proximal markers in the common carotid artery so there's nothing that's touched that lesion so far in any of the images that I've shown and then that's the moma

device that's one of these particular devices that does proximal protection and and from there you inflate the balloon in the external carotid artery you do a little angiographic test to make sure that there's no branch

proximal branch vessels of the external carotid artery that are filling that balloon is inflated now in this picture once you've done that you can inflate the common carotid artery once you've done that now you can take an O on four

wire of your choice cross the lesion because there's no blood flow going so even if you liberated plaque or debris it's not going to go anywhere it's just gonna sit there stagnant and then with that cross do angioplasty this is what

it looks like in real life you have a balloon approximately you have a balloon distally contrast has been injected it's just sitting there stagnant because there's nowhere for it to go okay once the balloons are inflated you've

temporarily suspends this suspended any blood flow within this vasculature and then as long as you confirm that there's no blood flow then you go ahead and proceed with the intervention you can actually check pressures we do a lot of

pressure side sheath pressure measurements the first part of this is what the aortic pressure and common carotid artery pressures are from our sheath then we've inflated our balloons and the fact that there's even any

waveform is actually representative of the back pressure we're getting and there's actually no more antegrade flow in the common carotid artery once you've put this in position then you can stent this once the stent is in place and you

think you like everything you can post dilated and then once you've post dilated then you deflate your balloon right so you deflate your all this debris that's shown in this third picture is sitting there stagnant

you deflate the external carotid artery balloon first and then your common carotid artery and prior to deflating either the balloons you've aspirated the blood flow 320 CC syringes as I said we filter the contents of the third syringe

to see if there's any debris if there's debris and that third filter and that third syringe that we actually continue to ask for eight more until we have a clean syringe but there's no filter debris out because

that might tell us that there's a lot of debris in this particular column of blood because we don't want to liberate any of that so when do you not want to use this well what if the disease that you're dealing with extends past the

common carotid past the internal carotid into the common carotid this device has to pass through that lesion before it gets into the external carotid artery so this isn't a good device for that or if that eca is occluded so you can't park

that kampf balloon that distal balloon to balloon sheath distally into the external carotid artery so that might not be good either if the patient can't tolerate it as I mentioned that's something that we assess for and you

want to have someone who's got some experience with this is a case that it takes a quite a bit of kind of movement and coordination with with the physician technologists or and co-operators that

another device that's new in the market

is the inari device it is a combi combination of suction thrombectomy and mechanical thrombectomy and it you can see it looks like three Amplatz or plugs on a catheter but that blue catheter is actually a very nice suction system as

well so you can go beyond the clot pull it in and then suck it into the catheter this is very useful because you can pull clot out without giving any TPA and you have a lot less blood loss so if you can take the clot out with a lot less blood

loss I think you can out patients again the benefit is that there's no thrombolytic and the patients have less bleeding drawbacks like many of these devices is there's really no studies to prove that they work we can prove that

they can remove clot from the patient's body but that we don't know that that actually helps in the long run so what we really want to know in all the studies which we're actually going to show three of the main studies is

whether this actually helps patients life in the long term do they does it improve their mortality so the first

patient like this you have a very large left lateral HCC that's invading the left the patek vein and extending into the heart since when we get into things like radioembolisation if you have

multifocal liver disease if you want to apply radiation therapy to that's very difficult to do that because it actually requires more radiation dose to kill HCC than it does the adjacent normal liver the liver is actually that ready

sensitive so you can do things like SBRT and pick an individual lesion you can do things like a imrt which is you know survey 8 non focus generalize low dose but what's interesting Malaysian is that if you administer

particles they only shoot about two millimeters worth of the raishin field around it so of what used is that with one not much but if you put eight to forty million of them within the bloodstream they Auto sort themselves

based off of the vascular flow preferential that exists with tumors tumors actually emit hormones pull in blood supply that you weren't born with and that actually tends to pull beads from the bloodstream preferentially

towards it so this is an example where you stain a tumor with two types of wax one the portal that's blue one the artery that's red and you can see how much that preferential exists so what ends up happening is these spheres

cluster within the tumor and then provide local dose radiation that's very hot where the tumor is and low elsewhere so here's an example of that this is a patient with metastatic neuroendocrine disease multifocal liver lesions you can

see that vascular flow preferential this is what it looks like on the maa when we jecht a protein particle surrogate that has a technician I should have assigned to it just as a visualization of how the particle is

going to sort out and the post y9t bremsstrahlung CT is over there and you can see how intense the necrosis is within the tumor and how much it's spared the normal liver however you do get some radiation damage they don't

live a regardless that's why choosing the timing of when you're gonna do this is important this is a patient that was treated with tastes above and one session of y9u beneath so you can see that they do have different types of

therapeutic mechanisms they're not the same even though they look very similar in terms of when we're administering

quick I did want to mention t-carr briefly and try to get you guys closer to back on time this is a hybrid procedure this is combining the surgical procedure we talked about first and carotid stenting it takes combined

carotid exposure at the base of the clavicle or just above the clavicle and reverses blood flow just like we talked about but tastes slightly different technique or approach to doing this and then you put the stent in from a drug

carotid access here's the components of the device right up by the neck there is where the incision is made just above the clavicle and you have this sheet that's about eight French in size that only goes in about us to 2 cm or 1 and a

half cm overall into the vessel and then that sheath is sutured to the the chest wall and then it's got a side arm that goes what's labeled number six here is this flow reversal urn enroute neuroprotection kit it reverses the

blood flow and then you get a femoral sheath in the vein right in the common femoral vein and you reverse the blood flow so this is a case a picture from our institution up on the right is the patient's neck and that's the carotid

exposure and the initial sheath is in place so the sidearm of that sheath is the enroute protection system which is going up up at the top of the image there we're gonna back bleed that let that sidearm of that sheath continue to

bleed up to the very top and then connect that to the common femoral venous sheet that we have in place there's a stepwise of that and then ultimately what we see at the end of the procedure is that filter inside that

little canister can be interrogated after and you can see the debris this is in the box D here on the bottom left the debris that we captured during the flow reversal and this is a what we call a passive and then active flow reversal

system so once the system is in place the direct exposure carotid sheath in place the flow controller and AV shunt in place you see the direction of blood flow so now all that blood flow in that common carotid artery is going reverse

direction and so when you place a sheath or wire and and ultimately through that sheath up by the carotid artery there's no risk for distal embolization because everything is flowing in Reverse here's a couple

case examples ferns from our institution this is a patient who had a symptomatic critical greater than 90% stenosis has tandems to nose he's so one proximal at the origin and one a little bit more distal we you can see the little

retractors down at the base of the image there in the sheath that's essentially the extent of the sheath from the bottom of that image into the vessel only about a cm or two post angioplasty instant patient tolerated that quite well here's

another 71 year-old asymptomatic patient greater than 90% stenosis pretty calcified lesion a little more extensive than maybe with the CT shows there's the angiography and then ultimately a post stent placement using the embolic

protection device and overall the trials have shown good good safety met profile overall compared to carotid surgery so it's a minimum minimal exposure not nearly as large the risk of stroke is less because you're not mucking around

up there you're using the best of a low profile system with flow reversal albeit with a mini surgical exposure overall we've actually have an abstract or post trip this year's meeting this is just a snapshot of that you can check it out

this is our one year experience we've had comparable low complication rates overall in our experience so in summary

criteria for CTF means that the patient has a mean pulmonary arterial pressure which we measure intraoperatively exceeding 25 millimeters mercury at rest with the mean pulmonary capillary wedge pressure less than 15 so I'm not a

cardiologist but what that means to me is a mean capillary pulmonary wedge pressure less than 15 means that their left heart is not failing so if you have a capillary wedge pressure higher than 15 that means your left heart is not

working correctly and you can't blame it on the CTF so you can't blame it on the right side if the left side isn't working other things that matter are the abnormal pulmonary vascular resistance and having a systolic pulmonary artery

pressure greater than 40 so what I want to show you and highlight is the law the lost art of pulmonary angiography which i think is now sort of again a lost art some places do a lot of it and some places don't do very much but diagnostic

pulmonary angiography is actually the gold standard in the planning of either surgery or medical management for patients with CTF we do we do these on almost all of our patients with CTF to make that decision with the surgeons and

the cardiologists so the utility is very it's very useful you're able to measure our pressure you're able to decide whether we're the where the thrombus exists in this image here in patients with disease in the

blue and yellow outlined areas those are the patients who can have the operation the operation is curative it's not just medication that you have to take for the rest of your life you can actually remove that chronic clot it's much like

a femoral endarterectomy that are done for patients with peripheral arterial disease although it's a lot more complicated because they have to crack your chest open what's important is getting very very

good high-quality pulmonary angiogram xand so we do we used to do about we do about a hundred of these a year where I trained or actually where I work now and you get very magda up views and you're gonna show all of the vessels and so

these are the views that we use at our institution they happen to be the pipette criteria so it's the same thing you used to do for acute PE you put a flush catheter in the main pulmonary arteries when you're looking at the

upper lobes and when you're looking at the lower lobes you want to push the catheter further into the pulmonary arteries and inject usually what I do is a two to three second injection so that you can stack the images very well and

show all of them in one view this allows your surgeon to make a decision easily as to whether they can operate or they can't operate on this and then I use a higher frame rate usually because these patients are wide awake we when we do

this case we give our patients twenty five mics of fentanyl one time and that's it just to help get the sheath in I usually do this with a seven French sheath and then use a flush cap pulmonary artery catheter many of which

are currently off the market but when we do this we just give them that twenty five Mike's because they have to hold their breath and I usually go up to a high frame rate in the first run and then adjust based off of how well that

patient is holding their breath this really takes a team effort from our nursing technologists and the and the physicians in the room to make sure that this patient does a good job because it's gonna change their management so

there are a lot of different types of angiographic findings on one of these pulmonary angiogram they're really really interesting pulmonary angiogram zin these patients and they're sometimes not at all subtle so you're looking for

a pruning of distal vessels if we start in the top left where you're just not seeing the Brent normal branch pattern you look for stenosis so we're not usually used to looking at stenosis and the pulmonary arteries but this is

actually what you're looking for in CTF you're looking for webs or bands so you'll usually see little areas where you just doesn't look like there's great opacification there's little areas that there's not good at pacification those

are little webs inside the vessel believe it or not looks like a cobweb that grew inside there from that thrombus and then you're looking for areas of complete occlusion that there's just no vessels there those are all

vessels that can be treated in patients with CTF so this is the Jameson classification before we talk about the sort of the interventional management the surgical management is again the curative and dr. Jameson is the head

surgeon at University of California in San Diego which is the largest Palm CTF program in the in the world and he's done I think over 3 500 of these operations I think he's retired at this point but they named the classification

after him and so type 1 is proximal disease so it involves the main pulmonary arteries these are the ideal patients who can get the best benefit from this in their life type 2 is the next best

it's segmental proximal just type 3 is distal segmental and then type 4 is just a mess of sort of all of it but you can't really get a good surgical plane so type 1 and 2 are treated with pulmonary thromboembolism

towards balloon pulmonary angioplasty or BPA and type 4 are generally treated with medication so PT II or pulmonary

treatment is the ultrasound assisted catheter director thrombolysis or the echos divisor eCos this technique involves a slow infusion again over 12 to 24 hours

but the catheter has ultrasound built into it and that's thought to help disassociate fibrin strands and to help embed the thrombus bed the TPA into the thrombus I think most people have heard of or seeing eCos in the past

again lower doses much like the catheter directed so it's really the same type of procedure except at the end you're hooking up eCos rather than a uniform Craig Mac there is a lot of differences though in the sort of overall patient

experience because eCos as many of you know requires a lot more devices and for the patient's room so they're gonna have more pumps because it requires more fluid it requires more observation it beeps more frequently overnight but what

I will say is that there are studies that are used that have useful information with eCos and those are actually the main studies that have been done although they're all industry-sponsored but they're very

important studies nonetheless so the only device really that exists for this right now that approved is the eCos

much more controversial so you it was pretty clear that we have to rescue

massive PD patients from death but with these statistics what are we supposed to do with sub massive PE well are we supposed to prevent mortality it's gonna be hard to do if the mortality is only 2 to 3% because you're trying to really

improvements of a very low statistic are you trying to reduce the rate of hemodynamic deterioration that's a possibility what about long-term disability if you remove clot upfront

will these patients do better six months one year or two years down the road frankly we don't know the answer to any of this and the reason is that the pytho trial made things quite difficult for us to interpret the pytho trial was the

trial that was going to answer all uncertainty this was a trial where it took some massive PD patients in that high-risk intermediate category and randomized them to receive a bolus of tenecteplase which is similar to TPA but

is not the same versus anticoagulation alone what did it show well it showed there was no difference in death between tenecteplase and placebo so they actually gave a placebo drug so that no it was a double blinded

study now if you look at the next line though a lot more patients decompensated if they receive the placebo than that's not to place this is not a bad thing you know it's not it's not great when you have to intubate somebody or initiate

pressors so if you can avoid that outcome that's it that's a pretty good thing so maybe it is the right thing to give systemic thrombolysis in the setting of sub massive PE problem was this the bleeding you look down here

there was an eleven percent rate of major bleeding in the tenecteplase arm there was a two percent rate of intracranial hemorrhage so now we've got this therapeutic window that's hard to interpret so we seem to be improving

outcomes from an efficacy standpoint but then we're also increasing the rate of bleeding so basically what we've sort of coalesced around is that systemic thrombolysis has a questionable risk benefit profile because the rate of

bleeding and the rate of really serious bleeding is makes us nervous so is that an opportunity for catheter director thrombolysis and I'll call this the poster child for Catherine throwing license if this is how it worked every

time we might have a homerun so this is gentleman looked terrible well still in the sub massive category but breathing at 35 times a minute hypoxic had his main PA systolic pressure of 60

millimeters of mercury you look over here and there's this large clot in the right upper lobe go to the left side and then there's all this clot in the left lower lobe as well so what do we do we put in bilateral infusion catheters this

can be an E Coast catheter it can be a standard catheter these areyou nafeez catheters have side holes starting from here and ending it's hard to see but there's another radiopaque marker somewhere down there on this side there

and somewhere over there and between those markers you have multiple side holes and those are put up inside the clot so you're dripping TPA at a rate of about 0.5 to 1 milligram per hour and you're getting it directly into the

clock that's the theory and so after 20 to 24 hours of that you know you're given 20 to 24 milligram of TPA that's compared to 50 or a hundred that you get was sitting with systemic thrombolysis you get something

that looks like this where the pulmonary arteries look pristine the PA still the systolic pressures come down the patient feels great now the skeptic would look at this and say well if you just tried some heparin and you just infuse saline

would you have the same result and frankly if you were to conduct the experiment you might find something interesting or not interesting but we never have conducted that experiment but you know I'll tell you a little bit

about the ultimate trial if I have time I don't want to go to overtime though

so just a compliment what we everybody's talked about I think a great introduction for diagnosing PID the imaging techniques to evaluate it some of the Loney I want to talk about some of the above knee interventions no disclosures when it sort of jumped into

a little bit there's a 58 year old male who has a focal non-healing where the right heel now interestingly we when he was referred to me he was referred to for me for a woman that they kept emphasizing at the anterior end going

down the medial aspect of the heel so when I literally looked at that that was really a venous stasis wound so he has a mixed wound and everybody was jumping on that wound but his hour till wound was this this right heel rudra category-five

his risk factors again we talked about diabetes being a large one that in tandem with smoking I think are the biggest risk factors that I see most patient patients with wounds having just as we talked about earlier we I started

with a non-invasive you can see on the left side this is the abnormal side the I'm sorry the right leg is the abnormal the left leg is the normal side so you can see the triphasic waveforms the multiphasic waveforms on the left the

monophasic waveforms immediately at the right I don't typically do a lot of cross-sectional imaging I think a lot of information can be obtained just from the non-invasive just from this the first thing going through my head is he

has some sort of inflow disease with it that's iliac or common I'll typically follow within our child duplex to really localize the disease and carry out my treatment I think a quick comment on a little bit of clinicals so these

waveforms will correlate with your your Honourable pencil Doppler so one thing I always emphasize with our staff is when they do do those audible physical exams don't tell me whether there's simply a Doppler waveform or a Doppler pulse I

don't really care if there's not that means their leg would fall off what I care about is if monophasic was at least multiphasic that actually tells me a lot it tells me a lot afterwards if we gain back that multiphase the city but again

looking at this a couple of things I can tell he has disease high on the right says points we can either go PITA we can go antegrade with no contralateral in this case I'll be since he has hide he's used to the right go contralateral to

the left comment come on over so here's the angio I know NGOs are difficult Aaron when there's no background so just for reference I provided some of the anatomy so this is the right you know groin area

right femur so the right common from artery and SFA you have a downward down to the knee so here's the pop so if we look at this he has Multi multi multiple areas of disease I would say that patients that have above knee disease

that have wounds either have to level disease meaning you have iliac and fem-pop or they at least have to have to heal disease typically one level disease will really be clot against again another emphasis a lot of these patients

since they're not very mobile they're not very ambulatory this these patients often come with first a wound or rest pain so is this is a patient was that example anyway so what we see again is the multifocal occlusions asta knows

he's common femoral origin a common femoral artery sfa origin proximal segment we have a occlusion at the distal sfa so about right here past the air-duct iratus plus another occlusion at the mid pop to talk about just again

the tandem disease baloney he also has a posterior tibial occlusion we talked about the fact that angio some concept so even if I treat all of this above I have to go after that posterior tibial to get to that heel wound and complement

the perineal so ways to reach analyze you know the the biggest obstacle here is on to the the occlusions i want to mention some of the devices out there I'm not trying to get in detail but just to make it reader where you know there's

the baiance catheter from atronics essentially like a little metal drill it wobbles and tries to find the path of least resistance to get through the occlusion the cross or device from bard is a device that is essentially or what

I call is a frakking device they're examples they'll take a little peppermint they'll sort of tap away don't roll the hole peppermint so it's like a fracking device essentially it's a water jet

that's pulse hammering and then but but to be honest I think the most effective method is traditional wire work sorry about that there are multiple you know you're probably aware of just CTO wires multi weighted different gramm wires 12

gram 20 gram 30 gram wires I tend to start low and go high so I'll start with the 12 gram uses supporting micro catheter like a cxi micro catheter a trailblazer and a B cross so to look at here the sheath I've placed a sheet that

goes into the SFA I'm attacking the two occlusions first the what I used is the micro catheter about an 1/8 micro catheter when the supporting my catheters started with a trailblazer down into the crossing the first

occlusion here the first NGO just shows up confirmed that I'm still luminal right I want to state luminal once I've crossed that first I've now gone and attacked the second occlusion across that occlusion so once I've cross that

up confirm that I'm luminal and then the second question is what do you want to do with that there's gonna be a lot of discussions on whether you want Stan's direct me that can be hold hold on debate but I think a couple of things we

can agree we're crossing their courageous we're at the pop if we can minimize standing that region that be beneficial so for after ectomy couple of flavors there's the hawk device which

essentially has a little cutter asymmetrical cutter that allows you to actually shave that plaque and collect that plaque out there's also a horrible out there device that from CSI the dime back it's used to sort of really sort of

like a plaque modifier and softened down that plaque art so in this case I've used this the hawk device the hawk has a little bit of a of a bend in the proximal aspect of the catheter that lets you bias the the device to shape

the plaque so here what I've done you there you can see the the the the the teeth itself so you can tell we're lateral muta Liz or right or left is but it's very hard to see did some what's AP and posterior so usually

what I do is I hop left and right I turned the I about 45 degrees and now to hawk AP posterior I'm again just talking left to right so I can always see where the the the the AP ended so I can always tell without the the teeth

are angioplasty and then here once I'm done Joan nice caliber restored flow restored then we attacked the the common for most enosis and sfa stenosis again having that device be able to to an to direct

that device allows me to avoid sensing at the common femoral the the plaque is resolved from the common femoral I then turn it and then attack the the plaque on the lateral aspect again angioplasty restore flow into the common firm on the

proximal SFA so that was the there's the plaque that you can actually obtain from that Hawk so you're physically removing that that plaque so so that's you know that's the the restoration that flow just just you know I did attack the

posterior tibial I can cross that area I use the diamond back for that balloon did open it up second case is a woman

PE the first one of course is

anticoagulation so heparin and bridging the patient to coumadin or now aid a direct oral anticoagulant is really the mainstay of treatment most patients again 55 percent of patients with PE have low risk PE all of those patients

should be on according to the chest guidelines three months of anticoagulation so they're gonna get heparin as an inpatient if they even need it and they're gonna get sent home on lovenox bridge to coumadin or they're

gonna get the one of the new drugs like Xarelto or Eliquis but here's all the other things that we do so these patients that are in the intermediate high risk so I'm gonna try to keep saying those terms to try to kind of put

that in everyone's brain because I think the massive and sub massive PE is what everyone used to talk about but we want to keep up with our colleagues in cardiology who are using the correct terminology we're gonna say high risk

and an intermediate but in those patients - intermediate high risk or Matt or the high risk PE patients we're gonna be treating them with systemic thrombolysis catheter directed thrombolysis ultrasound assisted

thrombolysis and maybe some real lytic and elected me or thrombectomy there's other techniques that we can use for one-time removal of clot like rotational and electa me suction thrombus fragmentation and then of course

surgical mblaq t'me so when anticoagulation is not enough so I like to show this slide because it shows the difference between anticoagulation and thrombolysis they are very different and sometimes I think everybody in this room

understands the difference but I think our referring providers don't and so when we when we get consulted and we recommend anticoagulation they're like yeah TPA well that's not the right thing so anticoagulation stops the clotting

process so when you start a patient on a heparin drip they should theoretically no longer before new thrombus on that thrombus so when you have thrombus in a vessel you get a cannon you get a snowball effect more

and more thrombus is gonna want to form heparin stops that TPA however for thrombolysis actually reverses the clouding process so that tissue plasminogen activator or streptokinase or uro kindness will actually dissolve

clot so there you're stopping new clot forming versus actually dissolving clot anticoagulation allows for natural thrombolysis so your body has its own TPA and so when you put a patient on heparin you're allowing your natural

body defenses to work you're giving it more time TPA accelerates that process so you give TPA either systemically or through a catheter you're really speeding up that process anticoagulation on its own has a

lower bleeding risk you're putting a patient on heparin or Combe it in it's it is less but it is still real thrombolysis however is a very very high bleeding risk patients when I when I consult a patient for thrombolysis I

tell them that we are about to do give them the absolute strongest blood clot thinning agent or an reversal agent which is the TPA and we're gonna just run it through your veins for hours and hours

um and that sort of gives them an idea of what we're doing anticoagulation in and of itself is really not invasive you just give it through an IV or even a pill thrombolysis however is given definitely through an IV through

systemic means and a large volume there thereafter or catheter directed so again

craft is basically the only FDA approved stain crafts and I'll show you a

different way of doing it as well besides the Viator especially in countries where the Viator does not does not exist okay the Viator stand sits in the liver just like just like in my hand here the bare

portion is on the portal venous circulation the covered portion is basically on the hepatic vein part of the circulation okay the bare portion is chain-linked and is very flexible that's why kind of cut can crimp like that okay

they're both self expanding the bare portion is self expanding held by the sheath only the covered portion is held by a court okay so they're both self expanding but they're constraints by two different two different two different

methods one's a sheath constraint and one is a is a cord constraint okay these are the measurements the bare portion theoretically allows portal flow to pass if you're in a branch so it doesn't cost from boses of the portal vein branch in

the covered portion is important to cover the parental tract the youth that you've created in the past you had a lot of billary leaks into the tips if it's a bear stance bile is from by genic so it causes thromboses bile also instigates a

lot of reactionary tissue such as pseudo intimal hyperplasia that actually causes the narrowings of the of these tips if you causing bear stance the coverage stance prevents the bile leaks from actually leaking into into the shunt

itself okay and that's why it has a higher patency rate okay ideally this is how it's it's a portal vein and hepatic vein you'll hear people say proximal and distal you'll he'll hear radiologists especially diagnostic

radiologist referring to proximal and distal proximal and distal some people refer to the portal venous and is proximal some people refer to the paddock venous and is proximal and vice versa okay and it

gets confusing nobody knows well what's proximal okay the people that say portal venous and is proximal there they're talking about its proximal to flow so it's basically the first thing that flow hits people that

call the paddock venous and proximal they're talking relatives of the body more central is proximal more peripheral is distal okay so they're using these the same terminology is very confusing so the best thing to use and I we tell

that to radiologists who tell that to IRS is to talk a portal venous and hepatic venous end you don't talk proximal distal everybody knows where the portal venous end is and where everybody knows where the peregrinus end

is and there's no confusion strictly speaking which is the correct one which is proximal for us as IRS tax nurses proximal is always to flow proximal is always anticipate to flow so the correct thing is actually proximal

is the portal venous ends remember P proximal P portal okay proximal is where the expected flow is coming in that's actually the correct one but just to leave e8 the confusion portal venous and hepatic venous end okay there's a new

stents which is the controlled expansion stents it's in my opinion it feels exactly like the old stance the only difference between it is that it's constrained still has the same twenty to twenty millimeter or two centimeter bare

portion chain-linked it still has that four to eight centimeter covered portion but it's constrained in the middle okay and has the same gold ring to actually market the to the to a bare portion and the cover portion self expanding portion

and is constrained down to eight millimeters you can dilate it to eight and nine and ten initially there was a constant there was a misconception that it was like a string like a purse string that you break and jumps from eight

and no this is actually truly a controlled where if you put a nine-millimeter balloon it will dilate to nine only eight balloon little dialect to eight only the only the only key thing is that the atmospheres has to

be ten millimeters at least okay so it has to be a high pressure balloon has to be at least 10 min 10 10 atmospheres okay so when you're passing that that balloon over make sure that it's that that it that at least it's burst is 10

millimeters or or EXA or more on a 10 mil on on 10 atmospheres okay next thing is when you're making a needle pass you got your target now with a co2 you got the portal vein you've got your stank craft and you know how it works okay how

do you make your needle pass okay and how do you know if your needle has hit the portal vein or not there are two schools to do this okay one school is to make a needle pass and aspirate as you pull back and when you get blood back

you basically inject contrast okay before you do all that when you make your needle pass you push saline and especially if you do if you're using a large system so there are several kits out there there is the cook kits that's

a color pinto needle that's a large gauge 14 gauge needle there is the new gore kits which is also 14 gauge needle it's a big system these large systems you need to push out that poor plug that's kind of like a biopsy you have to

push it out with saline first and then as you pull back aspirate okay the other system is a ratio cheetah or a Rocha cheetah it's actually pronounced rasa schita and that's a very small system that there won't be a core that you have

to push out okay so anyway if you're using a large system like a coop into a needle which is the cook system or the gore system you push that plug out and then there are two schools school two aspirates you get blood back you inject

contrast if you're in the hepatic in in the portal vein you basically access it with a wire the other school is to do a ptc style you actually puff contrasts as you pull back you do not ask for H saline you actually puff

contrasts as you pull back okay the latter puffing contrasts as you pull back is the minority I would say less than two percent of operators are gonna puff okay ninety-eight percent of operators at

least are gonna actually aspirate and not puff okay I'm actually in the minority I'm in the 2% and there are advantages and disadvantages like I promised you two different ways and advantages and disadvantage to each to

each one the advantages of puffing contrasts even if you missed the portal vein after a while you actually get contrast around the portal vein and you actually have a visual of the portal vein that's the advantage so when you're

actually injecting contrast and you're missing it you get contrast around the portal vein it actually goes around the portal and you actually see the portal vein and it takes training sometimes this one's easy

okay I'll show you some more difficult ones but this is a beautiful pussy typical portal vein okay in addition to that oh go back in do you see that you see that hole in the middle there see that signal signal you watch that

because you're gonna see it again and again that's usually a posterior portal vein posterior right portal vein heading heading away from you okay that's usually a good target and I'll show you that again here's a little

little bit less obvious to the untrained eye but this is actually where the portal vein sits right there okay so sometimes it needs training right just actually see where the portal vein is and once you've stained the portal vein

then you have a real-time image of where the portal vein is you can actually go go after it and it reduces your needle passes disadvantages of using contrast and puffing away is that it creates a mess okay if you make multiple passes

you and you miss on the multiple passes then you start creating a mess and even with your DSA you can't even see the portal you can't see the portal vein because you've got this great mess another disadvantage of using contrast

is that you have to stomach what you're gonna see okay you make a needle pass and you don't inject contrast you have no proof of where you've been but if you're making a needle pass and you're

injecting contrast you and everybody else is gonna see where you've been that's usually not a good thing sometimes you will see bowel you see gold bladder you'll see arteries you'll see veins you'll see all sorts of stuff

that nobody wants to see and you don't want to document okay so that's another disadvantage so I recommend especially young physicians especially young physicians in places that are not used to this especially young physicians that

are new to hospitals and they're gonna they're gonna make multiple passes not to do this was they're gonna be very they'll be criticized a lot by their texts and by the institution by their colleagues as to what have you done you

know big mass artery you've hit artery but the guys and gals that are just aspirating and not injecting they're actually not documenting what they're going through but they're going through the same stuff okay

okay next up this I think this video yep

so these are a lot of slides most limited you know I'm talking I'm talking to you guys I'm talking showing you a lot of technical stuff you know and a lot of slides and I'm gonna talk mostly technical of you know how tips and dips are done kind of a step by step so even

the title it's kind of a workshop step by step of how basically you do you do tips and dips and what and and what are they so in general when you have when you have this is basically kind of out flow spleen spleen dumps blood into the

portal vein the mesentery dumps blood into the portal vein portal vein goes into liver liver does its thing and then dumps the blood into the eppadi veins to the right atrium okay for that because the liver is connected with the spleen

and the guts in series unlike any other organ basically the liver has to be a low-resistance organ because the portal circulation is low-pressure look the liver has to be a low-resistance organ with liver disease especially liver

cirrhosis you actually get increased resistance and in the liver with that disease and you get basically a backup of the blood flow in the portal circulation and increases the pressure in the portal circulation that's kind of

the genesis of or the pathogenesis of portal hypertension backing up circulation the spleen and in the guts then you get ascites and hydra thorax that's kind of think of it as weeping of fluid into the pleural space and into

the and into the perineum part of it is oncotic part of is osmotic basically think of it nutritional and pressure driven causes at the same time we all have potential portosystemic connections in other words they're there but they're

not connected or they're not opened up in plumbing they hold them bleed valves or pressure valves when the pressure is high and you know they start weeping or leaking you know in your in your basements we have the same thing

we have so many portosystemic connections there are about 55 named ones there are innumerable ones that are actually that are actually not named the common ones that we know are because of because of bleeding is esophageal

varices that's the connection usually between the left gastric vein and the azekah can be hazardous system you can also get gastric varices and that's usually connecting between a spleen and the left renal vein through a gas renal

shunts you can get also all sorts of connections even down in the internal hemorrhoids we get actually portal hypertension hemorrhoids and bleeding and so many numerous other shunts that we just don't have time to cut to cover

it to cover all these so the general to the general thought of treating all these complications of portal hypertension is to decompress the system to reduce the pressure and that's along the lines of years and decades of

surgery shunts that were placed and now tips ism largely replaced all these surgical shunts with the exception of Vancouver and Tampa okay that they still do some surgical actually a lot of surgical shunts most most other places

in North America converge to a tip to a tip shunt the the advantage of the tips of over surgical shunts is the usual what we hear is minimally invasive it you know it's a quick recovery less morbidity and mortality areason for

white tips has beaten the surgical shunts is the transplant era all these surgical shunts are actually extrahepatic so when you go for a transplants and liver hits the buckets they actually have to go and shut down

these shunts wherever they created them steena renal portal cable in the tips it goes out with a liver in the bucket so there's no complication of transplantation that's the real advantage of tips over surgical shunts

and that's why it's become very very prevalent in in in North America with a transplant error when approaching gastric varices just briefly another way is a BRT Oh which is to go basically into the left renal vein go up the shunt

and specifically screw rows the stomach and that's not the that's not this kind of subject of our of our discussion here I'm gonna talk to you

strategies so some things that we have

in place right now our peer review Grand Rounds CPOE this is one of my one of my favorite process improvements is is making the right thing the easiest thing and you do that through standardization of processes so that's standard work so

that's your order sets that's the things pop-ups although you don't want to get into pop-up fatigue but pop-ups help our providers for little gentle reminders to guide them to what's right for the patient and to cover everything that we

need we need to cover to ensure the safety of our patient so recently in the fall of last year we had a TPA administration err that occurred it involved a 69 year old patient who two weeks prior had had some stenting in her

right SFA she presented to our clinic when our clinics with some heaviness in her leg and some pain and when she was looked at from an ultrasound standpoint it was determined that her stents were from Bost so she was immediately taken

to the cath lab and it was after angiography did indeed show that there was clot inside these stents they did start catheter directed thrombolysis in the cath lab they also did started concurrent heparin often oftentimes done

with CDT what's usual for our institution is that we have templates that pull in the active problem list for a patient in this case the active problem list or a templated HMP was not used had they

used the template at agent p they would have found that the second active problem on this patients list was a cerebral aneurysm so some physicians will tell you some ir docs will tell you that's an absolute

contra contraindication for TPA however the SI r actually lists it as a relative contraindication so usually we're used to when you when you start a final Isis case you know you're gonna be coming in every 24 hours to check in

that patient in this case we started the the CDT on a Thursday the intent was to bring her back on Monday the heparin many ir nurses will know that we will run it at a low rate usually 500 units an hour and we keep the patient sub-sub

therapeutic on their PTT although current literature will show you that concurrent heparin can also be nurse managed keeping the patient therapeutic in their PTT which is what was done in this case so what ended up the the

course progression of this patient was that so remember we started on Thursday on Saturday she regained her distal pulses in her right leg no imaging Sunday she lost her DP pulse it was thought that it was part of a piece of

that clot that was in the the stent had embolized distally so they made the decision with the performing physicians they consulted him to increase the TPA that was at one milligram an hour to 2 milligrams by Sunday afternoon the

patient had an altered mental status she went to the CT scan which showed a large cerebral hemorrhage they ain't we intubated to protect her airway and by Monday we were compassionately excavating her because

she me became bred brain-dead so in the law there's something that's called the but for argument so the argument can be made that this patient would not have died but for the TPA that we gave her in a condition that she should not have had

TPA for namely that aneurysm so this shows how standard work can be very important in our care of our patients and how standard work drives us down the right way making the easiest thing the safest thing so since that time

we've had a process improvement group that we've established an order set specifically for use and thrombolysis from a peripheral standpoint and then also put together a guideline that was not in place so it's some of that Swiss

cheese that just kind of we didn't have a care set we didn't have a guideline you know we didn't use our template so all those holes lined up and we ended up with a very serious patient safety event so global human air reduction strategies

oops sorry let's go back these are listed in a weaker two stronger and some of what we're using in that case is some checklists so we developed a checklist that needs to be done to cover the

absolute contraindications as well as the relative and it's embedded in the Ulta place order that the physician has to review that checklist for those contraindications and also there to receive a phone call from pharmacy

just to double-check and make sure that they have indeed done that that it's not somebody just checking it off so we have a verbal backup sorry so the just

them so my particular area of interest is a blade of radium ization and what we'd like to do is to break the liver

down into a bunch of little tiny perfused volumes off of a single vascular pedicle or what we call angio zones and those are those allow us to segment out if you only have small volume disease for example like here in

segment three why do I have to treat the entire left to paddock low I can actually treat just that small portion just like it what it tastes only now I'm administering y9t but since it's expendable liver I

can administer doses that are way higher orders of magnitudes higher than what I could if our infusing into the liver just on its own so here's an example of that if you look at this lesion in the right of panic lobe you'll see these

little lines over them what we want to achieve is around a 205 GRA threshold for these lesions that's the red line everything that's south of red in terms of color orange Holly to blue is not cold enough to kill tumor so if we

administer a dose of a tea grade to the lobe we get this coverage which is to be a partial response if I administer 150 grey suddenly that red line gets larger what happens when you administer 400 grey now you've officially covered the

entire lesion and so you're going to lose the adjacent liver at those kind of doses and as well - what what the real question then is not sort of how much dose you give it's you give what you need to to ablate the tumor in its

entirety and you see what the patient's left with if someone's left with anatomically a lot of remnant liver because of how you've segmented out that lesion then go ahead and dose extremely high and that's essentially what we've

seen in pathologic results it's one of the highest things of high school pathological crosa rates you can achieve with a trans arterial therapy it's highly competitive with thermal ablation in the correctly selected bleezin

so this is an example of what it looks like when you segment out a little lesion like this and this patient ultimately went to resection and this was a complete pathologic necrosis but as you can see even it was a cirrhotic

patient we chose a very small volume of liver that we felt the patient would tolerate so that's a blade of vernalization let's take a look at what looks like in real time so we have a little capsular lesion we felt that

ablating this patient who was a potential transplant candidate we felt we can probably with a blade of radium realization so you go in and this is the comb beam CT that looks at a complete enhancement of the lesion within the NGO

zone this is what the MAA looks like when we administer it you can see how it tends to cluster within the tumor but you can see what the adverse territory is the liver adjacent to it this is what the engine room looks like how highly

selective it is the day of and this is what the wine ID actually looks like is the wine 90 doing its job and you can see how conformal it is there's no risk whatsoever to the liver that's adjacent outside of that field of

a maximum of around 11 millimeters and this is a patient at one month with a complete imaging response and this patient never developed a recurrent to the site and what's actually sole mode of treatment for this person's liver

cancer this is how you get complete pathologic response if you look at those little tiny grey dots in there those are actually the spheres within tiny little vessels within the tumor sometimes they go even to the portal branch but you can

see how they're not clustered uniformly but when you make them super hot that allows them to give range where otherwise they would be fine a little bit short so this also applies to the whole lobe this was a patient that had a

very unusual presentation of colon cancer that was invading the portal II we weren't sure what to do with this patient no one was because a very rare occurrence so we said well we would like

to resect him but there's not enough liver and we're not sure if this person's gonna survive because we've never seen portal cancer invading the portal vein so we said let's treat it with the radiation lobectomy and what's

cool here is if you look at the the arteries even though the tumor is invading the portal vein it's bringing arterial supply along with it like a vagabond and that's the conduit that allows us to treat these patients so

when we saw that we felt this patient we good candidate for irradiation lobectomy which is applying an ablative dose of y9t to the entire low not just a small segment in patients where otherwise cannot because of the anatomy the tumor

or if you're trying to shrink that lobe to get that person ready for surgery why because if you look at the size of the lobe on the left from this first image and compare it here you can see how much larger it got what happens is that part

that the surgeon ultimately tens on resecting in volutes over time and becomes completely vitalized and turns into scar tissue so we know that if a surgeon goes in afterwards to cut it out it's going to not result in liver

failure and that level of security allows people to have sir who otherwise wouldn't this patient is not going to have metastatic disease because we followed their blood level markers let me see how low they are and

is going to have enough liver remnant so the patient went to resection and this is the pathologic specimen and this was also a complete pathologic necrosis so I

guys do so when we do our screening phone calls and our pre screens before

the actual procedure there's a few factors that we look at for the patients with blood pressure the patient needs to be vitally stable before we do a procedure there may be a slightly increased risk of bleeding for kidney

biopsy if patients are hypertensive although it hasn't been noted to be statistically significant in the literature so we are always aware of patients being hypertensive we do want them to be taking their medications the

day of the procedure we also do a full medication reconciliation with the patient making sure that we're checking on any anti platelets anticoagulant medications and we have a list of our hold times that we use for a reference

we already discussed for those of you who are at this session this morning the issue of liver disease is it stable liver disease they may have adequate he stasis even though their INR is not within the normal range and so we

recommend a stable INR of less than 2.5 for those patients and in our practice a lot of the providers are going away from correcting the INR s for our patients we also screen for hematological disorders do they have some known condition that

makes them more likely to bleed or conversely more likely to clot and that may factor into whether or not anticoagulation can be held do they have a current diagnosis of cancer are they going to be getting one of those

angiogenesis inhibitors might they have thrombocytopenia and we just do a brief review of the patient's chart before we call them to kind of look for those diagnoses do they have a history of bleeding especially if they have no one

platelet dysfunction you know a known history of bleeding can be a reliable predictor of bleeding risk for some patients and do they have a cardiac or a neurological history as we learned this morning patients that have recently had

a cardiac stent placed we can't just say yeah stop your plavix hold off 5 days it'll be fine that could be a very serious risk to the patient did they recently have a stroke have they had a PE why are they on their anticoagulation

if they're on it so we really need to be aware of the whole patient and having that pre-screening phone call with them can allow our nurses to figure out a lot of these problems and then alert the radiologists and try and troubleshoot

before the patient walks in the door and says yeah I took my warfarin this morning I'm all ready for my liver biopsy the radiologists don't like that much in it you know it's really a bad thing for our high volume area to have

that happen and this is just another chart of our oh did I get mixed up here you guys are gonna fire me from running this clicker there we go so the whole times are again based on the half-life and the mechanism of action and this is

pretty similar to what you saw in the the presentation earlier today and specifically that imbruvica that's something that we alert the radiologists who they have a discussion with the patient decide is this something that we

want to continue with and I will say that in our practice with the volume and the the level of acuity of our patients I think that a lot of our providers are fairly comfortable with a certain level of risk because that's just who our

patient population is you know we have a very large hospital two large hospitals and very sick patients so that's something that we you know some of them are more comfortable than others but it's a risk-benefit thing that they have

to decide on themselves with the patient obviously all right so here are our

technically step by step of how tips are done okay and and the ideal tips with

every step of this procedure I'm gonna show you two ways of doing it okay and the advantages and disadvantages of the two ways in every step okay so first of all the primary thing is to get into the portal vein and how do you visualize the

portal vein okay so one way is to do co2 Vinogradova nog Rafi to hit the portal vein me with experience no I don't need co2 venography to hit the portal vein but I still do it in an in a teaching institution because I have texture that

are learning nurses they're learning and physicians are learning so I actually do the imaging for them so they actually can get the general idea of what we're doing this is our target this is where we're coming off and that's it but in an

experience hands is it necessary absolutely not okay so co2 photography very helpful for in teaching and teaching institutions so everybody and the whole team can actually know exactly what our target is so not essential like

like we discuss and there are two methods of doing this and in a funny way I'm gonna show you that's actually the same method but one is a micro of the other one okay so two ways one way is then wedge a catheter that's the old way

kind of more traditional way than let's not call it always more traditional way of doing a co2 port and the other one is using a balloon of balloon occlusion castra and this is wedging it with a four French five French catheter you

take it all the way to where the catheter is larger than the hepatic vein and now you've wedged it okay and this is kind of a mag up you see that that's a little that's a little wedge okay you wedge you inject contrast the contrast

just sits there it's wedged it's trapped okay and then this is with a balloon to your left is a balloon full of air to the right full of contrast and you basically trapped it again you fill contrast and consciousness it's there

what's the difference between this image and this image no difference the only difference is size that's all it's the same idea you're just trapping a segment of the liver the difference is this is a very

small segment and this is a larger segment okay so essentially it's actually the same technique one is just well technically when it comes to your side all one needs a four or five French calf the other one needs a balloon

occlusion caster okay same image so then you inject co2 the key thing here if you're the type of physician where you put contrasts you have a balloon sitting or a wedge and you have to count contrast there okay

rookie mistake is that they leave the contrast and then they hit the co2 okay what is that you've lost the advantage of the co2 in the beginning of your bolus is actually contrast okay so you need to bleed out the contrast and

replace it completely co2 so your entire bolus okay is co2 and not and not and not the and not the contrast okay that defeats the purpose why is co2 advantageous over contrast contrast is a thick fluid co2 is gas is viscous it's

volatile it actually can squeeze through tight spaces as it's a gas and that's what we want we want to squeeze that co2 which is a contrast through the sinusoids reflux it back into the portal circulation so we're trapping it and

we're trying to push co2 squeezing it through the sinusoids refluxing it back into the portal circulation so you can actually visualize the portal circulation okay and all and the disadvantage of a wedge is what you see

here if you're a wedge and you're immediately sub capsular and you slam you slam that co2 aggressively what you will get is an explosion you get a rip of those of the hepatic capsule scroll the glisten capsule and then you've got

a leak and if the patient is quite low is a quite low path they can actually die from this believe it or not they will die from this and not die from the needle passes okay so that's kind of co2 and that's kind of

a little a little passive air into the perineum nice imaging not a good outcome so one way to avoid this is to still wedge but wedge away from the hepatic capsule so you're out in the periphery in the paddock veins but you're deep

inside the liver you're not you're not right underneath the capsule so that's one way of doing it the other another way is to actually use a balloon okay so this is this is just another wedge here okay and you actually use a balloon I'm

just showing you a correlation with a balloon it's a little safer because you're a little distance away from from the hepatic capsule I'm just showing you a more and more image of the same thing co2 with correlation after you access

since it's a beautiful correlation with with the portal vein venogram okay there are problems with wedges and with balloons is that sometimes you get a gas you know a co2 leak you're wedged but there's hepatic veins at vadik vein

connections and all you see is a fatty veins you can't force reflux the co2 into the portal circulation so that's one problem okay so what do you do with that you change the sights just change a different different branch okay try to

avoid that connection between the badeck veins and it back veins go somewhere else where there is no connection where you can actually make a true hip wedge and force that co2 into the portal circulation okay another way this is

just a draw a drawing out whether it alone or a catheter you get that you get the escape from the Patek vein to fatty vein is to go distal go beyond that connection so if you can go distal go distal if you can't go distal then

change your branch try to find a place where there is no hepatic vein tip a degree engine attraction preferably but not necessarily not the same branches connected to because that usually goes both ways but not always sometimes

you're lucky and if that connection is kind of like a one-way valve one way street and it's not a two-way street but that's just sheer luck okay this is an example hepatic vein to about a vein connection and what we did was basically

switch to another place another vein and we actually get the portal venogram here okay next up sting crafts Viator's thank

okay stent graft deployments once you've ballooned you basically pass the sheath over the balloon all the way down to the portal circulation the reason for that

is the Viator stance has a bare portion that's captured by the sheath so your sheath has to be deep into the portal circulation so when you unsheath it it opens up and then you pull back so it snags on your portal venous entry so

it's a feel thing and a visual at the same time for the operator okay so your sheath has to be deep in the portal circulation so that dilates put your sheath all the way down this is a run just to make it look pretty for you guys

and then you basically deploy the Viator stent via tourists and like I said has a bear portion that's captured by the plastic here and that plastic sheath basically transfers the capture of the bare

portion from plastic to your entry or access sheath okay as a ring to it and put it in has a feel to it that ring has to be right there it's very common for people starting off to deploy it inside the sheath up so it's a kind of a feel

thing to actually make sure that it's actually in there snug with it with the sheath okay then you push the stents all the way into the sheath now the bare portion is captured by the sheath you remove the plastic it's over over and

done with and then you pass pass your your stent all the way down to the portal vein and then unsheath it like a wall stents let it open pull everything back till it snags on the portal venous entry sites and then unsheathed the rest

of it which is the covered portion and that stays constrained by the cord and then you pull then you pull the cord keep key portion here is this is the ideal tips and ideal ace tips is a tips from the portal vein bifurcation to the

a patek vein IVC junction okay that's an ace tips it's usually a straight tips it's the straightest tips you'll see it runs parallel to the caiva okay rookies will be doing tips down out in the

periphery and Deliver okay they'll be fishing for small portal veins out of his small hepatic veins and at the end their tips is gonna be like a big seat like a big C loop okay it'll be a longer tips with more stance and it won't be an

aggressive decompressive tips okay but an ace tips is a more aggressive central tips straights it comes from the portal vein bifurcation to the paddock vein IVC Junction that's kind of like an ace tips

okay unsheath it and then and you and then you pull the cord to basically deploy it and this is kind of a reenactments the Styrofoam cup is the portal vein the sheath is in there now over the wire there's no wire in the in

the reenactments and then you unsheath the bear portion so it opens up okay and then you pull everything back till it catches on the portal vein okay you move the sheath all the way back and

then you pull the cord you see the cord right there you pull the cord and it basically opens up the covered portion okay and it opens up from the portal venous end so it actually capped catches it right away catches that portal venous

entry sites there's no slippage and so basically rips open tip to hub okay and that's kind of your final product and then you go in and and then you go in and balloon okay so here it is ballooning put the sheath

over the balloon sheath is deep into the portal circulation you put the tips in your unsheath to cut the the the bare portion let it flower open you pull everything back to like snags you unsheath the rest of the stunt and then

you pull the cord okay and then you dilate with 8 or 10 or whatever so this is visit with the debilitation and that's kind of your final product ideal

questions comments and accusations please hello this topic is very personal to me I've had it actually had a UFE so this is like one of my big things I work in the outpatient center as well as a

hospital where we perform you Effy's and frequently the radiologist will have me go in and talk to the patient it's from a personal perspective one of the issues which it may just have been from my situation was pain control post UFE

whether you normally tell your patients about pain control after the UFE someone say we are all struggling with this yeah oh it's not what's your question is going to be okay good I'm gonna get doctor Dora to answer Shawn the question

is what do you what do we do with this pain issue you know what are you doing for the home there at Emory there you know and a lot of practices we we don't rely on one magic bullet for pain control recently we've been doing

alternate procedures for two adjunctive procedures to help with pain control for example there are nerve blocks that you can do like a superior hypogastric nerve block there's there's Tylenol that can be given intravenously which is seems to

be a little more effective than by mouth there's there's a you know it and a lot of times it's it's a delicate balance right between pain post procedural pain because you can often get the pain well controlled with with narcotics opioid

with a pain pump but the problem is 12 hours later the patients is extremely nauseous and that's what keeps her in the hospital so it's a it's a balance between pain control and nausea you can you can hit the nausea

beforehand using a pain and scopolamine patch that that'll get built up in the system during the procedure and that kind of obviates the nausea issues like I said that the the nerve blocks the the tile and also there are some other

medicines that can can be used adjunctive leaf or for pain control in addition to to the to the opioids so the answer the question is there are multiple there multiple answers to the question there's not one magic bullet so

that helped it did one of the things that I tell the patients is that you know everyone is different and yet some people I've seen patients come out and they have no pain they're like perfect and then some come out and they are

writhing in the bed and they're hurting and they're rolling all around what and I always ask the acid docs are you telling them they could possibly have you know pain after the procedure because some have the expectation that

I'm going to be pain-free and that's not always the case so they have an unrealistic expectation that I'm gonna have the UFE but not have pain what I also tell them is that the pain it's kind of like an investment right and

this is easy for a guy to say that right but but it's it's an investment the worst part the worst pain you should be feeling is the first 12 12 hours or so every day I tell my patient you're gonna be getting better and better and better

with far as the pain as long as you is you follow our little cookbook of medicines that we give you on the way home and I want you to make sure that you fill these prescriptions on the way home or you have someone fill those

prescriptions for you before he or she picked you up in the hospital and lately we have been and I see that you're there as well lots of other little tricks that are out there right and again there are all

little tricks so ensure arterial lidocaine doctor there is near alluded to and if you're on si R Connect you may it may spill over on some of your chat rooms here people have been using like muscle relaxant like flexural or

robertson with some success but just know that we don't have any studies that tell us how that's supposed to do so when i have someone that is like writhing in pain i just use everything so i do it superior hypogastric nerve

vlog and i actually will do some intra-arterial lidocaine although not so much lately i have been using the muscle relaxant but i will warn you that i've had two patients with extreme anticholinergic effects where they are

now not able to pee from that so you know where we're doing that balance act I see that you're there can I take that question here first just so we're we're doing the same thing we're using the multimodal just throwing all these

things at people and we're trying the superior hypogastric blocks but we're collaborating with anesthesia to do that right now do you all do your own blocks or do you collaborate with anesthesia we do our own blocks okay it isn't it is

not that difficult I would tell you that but again it's kind of like you know you got to do if you start feeling better and then you're like we don't really need them we'll just do it on our own okay thank you again yes what's the

acceptable interval between UFE and for IBF oh that's a your question what is the interval between UFE and IVF so if you wanted to get pregnant yeah and can you have a you Fe and then have an IVF like how long would you have to wait

wait and tell you before you can have that the IBF it I guess it really depends on the age of the patient because we know that that the threshold for which patient tend to have that inability to conceive

is around 45 years old so you know it did below the you know below the age of 45 the risk of causing ovarian failure or or the inability to conceive is significantly less it's zero zero to three percent so I would say that you

know you probably want the effects of the fibroid embolization to two to take effect it takes around 12 months for these fibroids to shrink down to their most weight that they're gonna they're going to shrink down the most I wouldn't

say you need to wait 12 months to put our nine vitro fertilization there's no good there's no good literature out there I don't believe that's your next and so I would say just remember that if you came to my practice and you said you

wanted to get pregnant I will be sending you to talk to fertility specialists beforehand we do not perform embolization procedures as a way to become pregnant there's no data to support that but if you saw your

gynecologist and they said let's do this then I'm sure they'll be doing lots of adjunct things to figure out what would be an ideal time then to for you to have IVF and if I dove not having any data to inform me I would ask you to wait a year

and what will be the effect of those hormones that they gave you if for example a patient has existing fibroids what would be the effect of those hormones that IVF doctors prescribed their patients yeah so fibroids actually

can grow during pregnancy so I would say that most of those hormones are pro fertility hormones so I would expect that maybe you can see some of that effect as well yeah alright if you have any other questions you can grab me oh

you're I'm sorry go with it okay yes we we have time I don't want to keep anybody here for that so I have a two-fold question the first one is post-procedure can you use a diclofenac patch or a 12-hour pain

patch that is a an NSAID have you have any experience with that and your next question my second part of the question is there a patient profile or a psychological profile that tips you that the patient is not going to be able to

candidate because of their issues around pain so they're two separate but we have in success sending people home that first day so I'm looking to just make it better I haven't had experience with the Clos

phonetic patch it's in theory it seems ok you know these are all the these are they're all these are non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs so there are different potency levels for all of them they you know they range from very low

with with naproxen to to a little bit higher with toradol like that clover neck I think is somewhere in between so we found that at least I found that that q6 our our tour at all it tends to help a lot so with that said I I don't have

much experience with it with the patch in answer to your second question the only thing I can say is there there is a strong correlation between size of fibroids and the the amount of a post procedural pain and post embolization

syndrome so there really you know we often say we don't really care too much about the number of fibroids but the size of the fibroid is is is should be you know you should you should look at that on pre procedural imaging because

if it gets too big it may not be worth it for the patient because they may be in severe pain the more embolic you put into the blood supply's applying the the fibroid the the greater the pain post procedural pain

are there multiple other factors that would contribute to pain but that's that's one aspect you can you can look at post procedurally on imaging okay thank you very much yes ma'am hi what what kind of catheter do you use

to catheterize the fibroid artery when you pass by radio access yeah so over the last three years the companies have been really very good about that so there are a few things that I without endorsing one company or the other that

you need to make sure that the sheath that you're using is one of those radial sheets a company that makes a radio sheath you should not use a femoral sheath for radial access so no cheating where that's concern you may get away

with it once or twice but it will catch up to you and you need a catheter that is long enough to go from the radio to the to the groin so I'm looking for like a 120 or 125 centimeter kind of angled catheter whether it's hydrophilic the

whole way or just a hydrophilic tip or not at all you can you can choose which one in our practice most of us still tend to use a micro catheter through that catheter although if I'm using a for French and good glide calf and it

just flips into like a nice big juicy uterine artery then I may just go ahead and take that and do the embolization if the fellow is not scrubbed in as well so thanks a lot but they make they make many different kinds like that and more

of those are to come all right I'm you can please please please send us any other questions that you have thanks for your time and attention and enjoy the rest of the living

catheter some other things that we can do is mechanical intervention so if you have a patient usually with massive PE

or the inner or the high-risk B you got to do something to help them out so what we do is put a pigtail catheter and inject a little bit of TPA on the table and then twirl the pigtail or put a wire through the side part of the pigtail and

make it sort of a mechanical fragment fragmentation the problem with that is that fragmented clot goes downstream so when it's in a main pulmonary artery it actually has less surface area than it is when it is in a distal pulmonary

capillary so when you break that clot up you have to be careful because it can actually make the patient worse the benefit there there's no thrombolytic so if we're doing this we we generally are doing it in patients who can't either

receive TPA at all frequently we get patients with who have have had recent spine surgery who get a massive PE had brain surgery get a massive PE and you have to try to treat them without any TPA or even heparin the drawbacks are

that again it increases pulmonary vascular resistance by sending all those little pieces of clot into the small pulmonary arteries and capillaries and it makes it actually much worse in some patients again there's no control trials

and sometimes you need to have a bigger

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