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Thoracic Duct Injury, Chylous Leak | Embolization | 52 | Female
Thoracic Duct Injury, Chylous Leak | Embolization | 52 | Female
2016catheterchestcontrastductethiodolgaugeinjectinjectedinjectingleakleaksloopslymphneedlenodepatientpedalSIRthoracictubevessels
Treatment Options- TransCarotid Artery Revascularization- TCAR | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
Treatment Options- TransCarotid Artery Revascularization- TCAR | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
angiographyangioplastyarterybleedbloodcalcifiedcarotidchapterclaviclecommondebrisdevicedistalembolicembolizationexposurefemoralflowimageincisioninstitutionlabeledpatientprocedureprofileproximalreversalreversesheathstenosisstentstentingstepwisesurgicalsuturedsystemultimatelyveinvenousvessel
Systemic vs Catheter-based Thrombolysis | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Systemic vs Catheter-based Thrombolysis | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
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C. Cope and Access | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
C. Cope and Access | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
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Nodal Lymphangiography | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
Nodal Lymphangiography | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
angiographycenterscentimeterchapterductembolizationinjectinginjectionluerlymphlymphaticsneedlenodenodespropofolsyringesthoracictubing
Q&A Pulmonary Embolism | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Q&A Pulmonary Embolism | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
acuteangiogramassistedcatheterchapterchroniccontrastdiagnosticechocardiogramembolismisisNonepressurepulmonarythrombolysistreatmentultrasound
Airway Assessment | Procedural Sedation: An Education Review
Airway Assessment | Procedural Sedation: An Education Review
airwayanesthesiologistangiogramapneachaptercongestivecopddifficultyeffectivehabituslungsmaskmusculatureNonepatientpatientspharmacologyproceduralproviderssealsedatedsedationstiffventilationwaveform
Other Non-invasive Ways to Image the Lymphatics  | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
Other Non-invasive Ways to Image the Lymphatics | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
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Pedal Lymphangiography | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
Pedal Lymphangiography | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
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The Path Forward | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
The Path Forward | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
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Examples of Pediatric Lymphangiography | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
Examples of Pediatric Lymphangiography | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
angiogramascitesatresiachaptercongenitalductlymphlymphaticsurgerythoracicthorax
Therapies for Acute PE | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Therapies for Acute PE | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
anticoagulantanticoagulationcatheterchapterclotcoumadindefensesdirectedheparininpatientintermediatelovenoxNonepatientpatientsplasminogenprocessriskrotationalstreptokinasesystemicsystemicallythrombectomythrombolysisthrombustpa
Plastic Bronchitis | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
Plastic Bronchitis | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
airwaysbronchoscopychaptercopdductembolizegraftlymphlymphaticmichiganpatientspediatricsstentvesselsvibe
Chylous Ascites | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
Chylous Ascites | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
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Chylothorax | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
Chylothorax | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
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The Ways to Recanalize the Below the Knee Vessels | AVIR CLI Panel
The Ways to Recanalize the Below the Knee Vessels | AVIR CLI Panel
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Clinical Workflow for PET/MRI | PET/MRI: A New Technique to Obtain High Quality Diagnostic Images for Oncology Patients
Clinical Workflow for PET/MRI | PET/MRI: A New Technique to Obtain High Quality Diagnostic Images for Oncology Patients
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Percutaneous Mechanical Intervention | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Percutaneous Mechanical Intervention | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
catheterchapterclotmassivemechanicalNonepatientpatientsPig Tail Catheterpigtailpulmonarysurgerythrombolytictpa
Q&A Uterine Fibroid Embolization | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Q&A Uterine Fibroid Embolization | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
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Aspiration Thrombectomy | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Aspiration Thrombectomy | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
angioAngiodynamicsAngiovac CannulaAspirex CathetercatheterschapterclotdevicedevicesfrenchIndigo ThrombectomyNonepatientPenumbraPenumbra Inc.sheathStraub Medicalthrombectomythrombustpa
Case Example | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Case Example | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
acuityafibangiogramanticoagulationarterycatheterchapterclotCTEPHdistallyDVTimagesincisionleftlobelowerNoneoperationpatientspressurespulmonarypulmonary arterysegmentalstenosisthrombusuppervessels
Cone Beam CT | Interventional Oncology
Cone Beam CT | Interventional Oncology
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Lymphatic Imaging Challenges | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
Lymphatic Imaging Challenges | Lymphatic Imaging & Interventions
angiogramappearancebreastchaptercontralateraldependentductextremityfluidfluoroscopicfunctionalimageimagesinjectionlymphlymphaticlymphaticsmelanomanodenodespatientpatientsscintigraphyswollentherapythoracictumorvalvesvessels
Balloon Pulmonary Angioplasty | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Balloon Pulmonary Angioplasty | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
angiogramangioplastyarteryballoonballooningbandschaptercomplicationscontrastflowHorizonimageimagesluminalNoneocclusionocclusionspatientsproximallypulmonaryradiationrecanstenosisthrombustreatedultrasoundwebs
CT Imaging- Acute PE | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
CT Imaging- Acute PE | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
acuteangiogramappearancearrowarteriescenteredchapterclassiccontrastcoronalimaginginfarctluminalNonepatientperfusionpulmonarysagittalscansegmentalsurroundingtechnologistthrombolysisthrombusvesselview
TIPS: Techniques- CO2 Venography | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
TIPS: Techniques- CO2 Venography | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
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Bland Embolization | Interventional Oncology
Bland Embolization | Interventional Oncology
ablationablativeadministeringagentangiogramanteriorbeadsblandbloodceliacchapterchemocompleteelutingembolicembolizationembolizedhcchumerusischemialesionmetastaticnecrosispathologicpatientpedicleperformrehabresectionsegmentsequentiallysupplytherapytumor
What's Next | AVIR CLI Panel
What's Next | AVIR CLI Panel
analogangiogramchapterclinicaldecreasesdistensioneffusionembolizationembolizedembolizingenrollingimagekneemedialmicronMRIpatientpatientsrandomizationrespondrespondersstudysynovialupsize
Diagnostic Criteria for CTEPH | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
Diagnostic Criteria for CTEPH | Management of Patients with Acute & Chronic PE
angiogramangiographyarterialarteriesarterycapillarycatheterchapterclassificationcurativediseasedistalflushlobesmanagementmedicationNonepatientpatientspressureproximalpulmonarysegmentalsheathstenosissurgeonsurgicalthrombustreatedtypevesselswebswedge
TIPS: Techniques- Stent Grafts | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
TIPS: Techniques- Stent Grafts | TIPS & DIPS: State of the Art
advantagesarteryaspirateballoonbarebasicallybilecentimeterchaptercontrastcovereddilatedisadvantagedisadvantagesdistalexpandingflowgaugegorehepaticinjectinjectingkitsleaksmultipleneedlepasspassesphysiciansportalportionposteriorproximalpullpushradiologistssalinesheathstentssystemveinvenous
Indirect Angiography | Interventional Oncology
Indirect Angiography | Interventional Oncology
ablateablationablativeaneurysmangioangiographybeamBrachytherapycandidateschapterdefinitivelyembolizationentirehccindirectintentinterdisciplinaryischemiclesionographypatientportalresectionsbrtsurgicaltherapyvein
Transcript

I'm going to change gears just a little bit and we're gonna start with a little bit of a different kind of case. And this is a 52-year-old woman who underwent Ivor-Lewis esophagectomy for recurrent hiatal hernias and gastroparesis and at surgery she was found to have contained esophegeal perforation. I only include that because it shows this wasn't your typical esophagectomy

this was actually a little bit more of a complicated procedure. Post-op they put a chest tube and her right chest tube continued to have really high output, over two and a half liters a day. And so they were already suspecting that a thoracic duct injury

and send the pleural fluid for triglycerides and found those to be elevated. So they tried treating her conservatively and she wasn't eating at this point so we put her on octreotide infusion. And it didn't really make much of a difference so they consulted us to do a lymphangiogram.

I show this this picture because I'm old enough to have done the conventional lymphangiogram when I was in fellowship early in my career, but I'm young enough to have never been good at these. I don't know how many of you all do pedal access for lymphangiograms

in this room. Anybody? Steve [INAUDIBLE] do you all have any? >> [INAUDIBLE_AUDIO] >> We are talking about getting into a bronchial heart.

These are you are looking at these little whispers of vessels and for those of you who have never done it, the way you do it is you inject methylene blue into the webbing in between the toes. And you do a cut down on the dorsum of the foot and dissect down. Then you identify the lymphatic vessels by the uptake of the methylene

blue, and then you put little loops around it and then you cannulate it with a 30 gauge needle. Usually you have to go to your surgeon and borrow their loops because otherwise most of us aren't gonna see these stupid things and then try to get into them without blowing them,

it's really a challenge. I would say up until a few years ago, whenever we got these requests, first thing we would always do is go to the oldest guy in our division that had a little more experience with this to do the lymphangiogram and if he was on vacation,

we just kind of said well, I don't know if we're gonna be able to do this. But then something really nice happened and Max Itkin who is a pen/g and does just a ton of these, published a nice little paper a couple of years ago about,

using ultrasound-guided intranodal injection for your lymphangiograms. And this really kinda was a game changer for us. Now, it's not new idea it's been around since the 1960s, but I wasn't reading German in 1967 cuz I wasn't even born in 1967.

So, it was a new idea to me, and this is kinda what it looks like. You ultrasound the groin, you can see you got your artery, your vein and then in this particular picture you have your lymph node

and you can usually see these pretty easily, they have the nice little pediculum/g. And so where you're aiming for with your needle is kind of this plane between the lymph node tissue and its pediculum/g and we'll do these with usually about a 25 gauge spinal needle or so and

then once you get in you inject your Ethiodol and if possible we will inject multiple nodes for these procedures. So this is what we did on this particular woman, and you can see we accessed her bilaterally, injected a bunch of Ethiodol contrast and it just looks awful, it looks terrible.

And then her she had really slow transit of contrast and so being interventional radiologists we got really impatient because you guys know if you have to wait 30 seconds in the lab it feels like an eternity. So we sent her back to her room and we got a KUB the next morning and it's kinda hard to see on the KUB but she had some contrast

in this cisterna chyli that we could actually target. So we brought her down and we, under fluoro, we stuck a 21-gauge needle into the cisterna chyli, and then through that we were able to get a little microwire up,

and then finally we went up to the site, you can see these surgical clips here and those are where the thoracic duct was ligated and there's a leak just below that. And so we ran our catheter up and we deposited some coils. And we kinda high-fived and said yay we're and then and this is where we also injected a little bit glue as well.

I didn't mention that. You see a little bit of glue going out through the leak. So we were all excited cuz here we were, we saved the day, only to find that she continued to have high chest tube output, which was really

kind of disappointing. But we brought her back and fortunately there was still some contrast on the cisterna chyli, we were able to re-access her and we run our catheter back up and we just packed in a ton more coils up into this thoracic duct and that actually did the trick.

That actually got the leak to stop, so thoracic duct embolization for chylous leaks isn't something that we do everyday, but it is something that is really a good service for these patients. This can be challenging to address and in this particular case for

the surgeon to go back and surgically to try to fix this. Would have been really problematic and difficult and so it's just kind of a nice example of a thoracic duct embolization. These in our group, they probably come up about one every two to three months so it's not something that we see everyday, I think Max does a couple a week at this point and he

probably has the most experience in the country. But when we are able to do our members successful with them there really are very rewarding cases. Does anyone have any questions about that or about

this procedure? Yeah, go. >> What do you do when you can't catheterize the [INAUDIBLE] Sometimes the anatomy when you do a little venogram, you don't have nice target get more of a network instead of a nice [INAUDIBLE]

Do you believe in multiple [UNKNOWN] factors disrupting [INAUDIBLE] >> I've seen papers that have postulated that just injecting the Ethiodole can be sufficient to close down some of these leaks because as we know Ethiodole has a little bit of embolic property to it.

So sometimes just the diagnostic lymphangiogram is considered to be therapeutic. There is the idea that duct disruption Where you go in and you try to kind of macerate it with your needle. If you have a target and you're able to get a needle in whether it's 21, 22, 25 gauge needle then I do believe that if you're

able to puncture it a number of times then you probably are gonna create some degree of duct disruption. There are some reports where they allow the contrast to go up and if it goes up beyond the side of the leak up into the shoulder then there's a couple of reports that people are going to retrograde to get into the thoracic duct, I've tried that twice and failed incredibly miserably both times

so I don't know, I'm not sure how they do it, there's a little valve at the terminus so, of the thoracic duct and I've never been able to get across that valve. You know, I think at the end of the day we do the best we can, we

do a little lymphangiogram, we try to get into the duct if we can't get into it we do just follow the patient and continue to treat conservatively, we can bring the patient back and try again in the later day if that's what required, but it's true there are some cases that we just can't get. [INAUDIBLE] patient is the excellent infusion of the contrast, you have to sort of, with a needle experiment start injecting and you need to take it slow also.

>> Yeah, that a good point that's even more so when you're doing that from a pedal access but even with the lymph node you have to inject very, very slowly otherwise you will just kind of blow everything out and you'll have a Ethiodol in the soft tissues. [BLANK_AUDIO].

quick I did want to mention t-carr briefly and try to get you guys closer to back on time this is a hybrid procedure this is combining the surgical procedure we talked about first and carotid stenting it takes combined

carotid exposure at the base of the clavicle or just above the clavicle and reverses blood flow just like we talked about but tastes slightly different technique or approach to doing this and then you put the stent in from a drug

carotid access here's the components of the device right up by the neck there is where the incision is made just above the clavicle and you have this sheet that's about eight French in size that only goes in about us to 2 cm or 1 and a

half cm overall into the vessel and then that sheath is sutured to the the chest wall and then it's got a side arm that goes what's labeled number six here is this flow reversal urn enroute neuroprotection kit it reverses the

blood flow and then you get a femoral sheath in the vein right in the common femoral vein and you reverse the blood flow so this is a case a picture from our institution up on the right is the patient's neck and that's the carotid

exposure and the initial sheath is in place so the sidearm of that sheath is the enroute protection system which is going up up at the top of the image there we're gonna back bleed that let that sidearm of that sheath continue to

bleed up to the very top and then connect that to the common femoral venous sheet that we have in place there's a stepwise of that and then ultimately what we see at the end of the procedure is that filter inside that

little canister can be interrogated after and you can see the debris this is in the box D here on the bottom left the debris that we captured during the flow reversal and this is a what we call a passive and then active flow reversal

system so once the system is in place the direct exposure carotid sheath in place the flow controller and AV shunt in place you see the direction of blood flow so now all that blood flow in that common carotid artery is going reverse

direction and so when you place a sheath or wire and and ultimately through that sheath up by the carotid artery there's no risk for distal embolization because everything is flowing in Reverse here's a couple

case examples ferns from our institution this is a patient who had a symptomatic critical greater than 90% stenosis has tandems to nose he's so one proximal at the origin and one a little bit more distal we you can see the little

retractors down at the base of the image there in the sheath that's essentially the extent of the sheath from the bottom of that image into the vessel only about a cm or two post angioplasty instant patient tolerated that quite well here's

another 71 year-old asymptomatic patient greater than 90% stenosis pretty calcified lesion a little more extensive than maybe with the CT shows there's the angiography and then ultimately a post stent placement using the embolic

protection device and overall the trials have shown good good safety met profile overall compared to carotid surgery so it's a minimum minimal exposure not nearly as large the risk of stroke is less because you're not mucking around

up there you're using the best of a low profile system with flow reversal albeit with a mini surgical exposure overall we've actually have an abstract or post trip this year's meeting this is just a snapshot of that you can check it out

this is our one year experience we've had comparable low complication rates overall in our experience so in summary

a little bit more systemic versus catheter directed thrombolysis so once you've decided that a patient needs TPA what are the differences here well if

you give patients systemic TPA you're gonna give them a much more rapid delivery this is for those patients who have high-risk PE they're the ones who are coding for those patients you give them 200 milligrams of IV usually you

get 50 first and then another 150 over a very short time period they have a very high risk of bleeding as a result of that a catheter is much slower you're gonna infuse one milligram maybe which is what I think most people do

over several hours maybe a few maybe a day so it's slower targeted versus non targeted well catheter is much more targeted you're gonna give Pete you're gonna give the TPA right into the

pulmonary arteries that's the whole point in our in our thought process as a result you give a lot less drug so when you give a patient based off of some of the trials 24 milligrams of TPA over a 24-hour period that's a lot less than

200 milligrams in a 10 minute period and then the bleeding risk is very different for these patients catheter based treatments have a high bleeding risk but it's possibly lower than the initial bleeding risk of patients getting

systemic TPA so I wanted to go through a

and then getting back to really where the rubber hits the road you know we can do all of these fancy techniques why

does it matter well Constantin cope one of the fathers of IR is certainly the pioneer of lymphatic interventions and over subsequent five publications in the mid 90s really showed the the technical

build as well as the feasibility of imaging lymphatics putting a needle into them and then starting to be able to embolize them and functionally curing patients who had Kyle authorities and a potential morbidity or mortality of over

50% and how did he do it well as he did his lymph angiogram and it got up to the retroperitoneum and the structure started dilating into some of the central structures such as the cisterna chyli he would take that 21 gauge needle

and go after that structure put a needle into him pass a wire that wire would pass into the central lymphatic circulation and then he'd be able to put in a micro catheter Neff set machan visa or whatever inner inner

components and then do central and faint geography as well as potential and fame gia embolization so that would be the general antegrade trains abdominal access this was a traditional access that was done for over a decade more

recently a lot of authors have started focusing on doing retrograde trans venous access which you do basically a PICC line axis on the left arm and you take a sauce catheter to where the thoracic duct dumps into the veins and

you catheterize it backwards and just kind of showing you and get your sheath down or you can put a wire from below and then snare and come across it so that's a retrograde transvenous and finally the direct train cervical access

and some patients who you never see another target you can potentially access this under ultrasound or if you have fluoroscopy and some contrast in there in this case we put our wire retrograde and were able

to complete the case and you see of the lymphatic fluid leaking out in this case as well so those are your three main ways to access the central lymphatics

angiography came along towards the tail end of my fellowship so around 2011-2012

actually a children's Boston initially and then subsequently done in Penn in adults and this really became as simple as doing a lymph node biopsy basically sticking it on a lymph node while it seems novel it's really

interesting because if you go back to 1931 that's actually when they started doing some of this work when they were actually injecting the lymph nodes with these different tracers and they could see so it's a combination of a little

bit of ingenuity and looking back at our history and we the way that made it a lot easier for everybody this is basically my little setup here and I used some Italian syringes a plastic opaque three way so

that the lapa doll doesn't dissolve through it the medallion syringes hold up a lot better than the typical day we used luer lock stuff I use long propofol type thin bore tubing I attached it to a nine

centimeter long 25 to 27 gauge spinal needle I take the inner styler out of that cheeba so that because it's such a skinny needle that it bends a lot and this way I can put it right into the lymph node without having to connect it

to the tubing and then I can start my injection right away the 2115 cheeba there and that scalpel are really the only other things that I need to get started to do a successful thoracic duct embolization other thing that's really

critical is I always ask my texts and nurses to slap SC D's on the patients and if once we have the SC DS it really speeds up the procedure by an hour to two because you have this constant compression of the Venus and the

lymphatics and the legs forcing more fluid to make your thing to make your case I move along more quickly so something that was more recently adopted at many medical centers and these are the type of images that you get so I

stick my needle into the lymph node and I start this injection you give this beautiful arborization of the lap I doll contrast as it continues to spread and move from one lymph node to another you see there's a central area there that

isn't filling that's actually the lymph node that's already transmitted the lap idol and this was the image that I showed you initially so same image injection injecting of different lymph nodes you can see the transit from one

area to the rest of the chain in the pelvis hepatic lymph angiography is not

happy to take any questions or in

ultrasound we don't usually use contrast but one of the procedures were doing for the treatment management of a pulmonary embolism is the ultrasound assisted Rumble Isis do we need contrast so for the thrombolysis is the catheter itself

so you still need to give contrast two to do the procedure but while the catheter is running you don't need to give any contrast four for that is that what you're we don't usually use contrast for ultrasound but

all right when you're treating how will you know that it sliced the clot is less what you frequently do is check the pressures so that catheter allows you to check the pressure and so once you start a patient so you do a pulmonary

angiogram which requires contrast and you put the ultrasound assisted thrombolysis catheter in the eCos catheter then after 24 hours or 12 hours you can measure a pressure directly through that catheter and if the

patient's pressure is reduced you don't have to give them anymore injections yeah and if we are using ultrasound for treatment is it possible to do it for diagnostic purposes No so not for non the prominent artists for

diagnostic imaging unless you're doing an echocardiogram which is technically ultrasound in the heart but for treatment otherwise you need you will need to inject some dye oh thank you

hi I'm Katrina I'm NGH I have one more question okay for your patients with chronic PE do most of them begin with acute PE or if they very separate sort of presentations that's that's a great question so all of them

had acute PE because you can't have chronic without acute but a lot of them are not ever caught so you'll have these patients who had PE that was silent that maybe one day they woke up and had a little bit of chest pain and then it

went away couple days later they thought they had a bronchitis or a cold and then you find out five years later that they had a huge PE that didn't affect them so badly and then they have these chronic findings they usually show up to their

family practice doctor again with hey I just can't walk as far as I can I have a little heaviness they rule them out from a heart attack but it turns out that they have CTF so you you all of them had a Q PE but it takes a lot of time and

effort to find out whether they truly have chronic PE so it's usually in a delayed fashion thank you all right well thank you guys again appreciate it [Applause]

all about effective bag-valve-mask it's the mainstay of airway management and procedural sedation but also in the o.r so you're gonna see if you're ever working with an anesthesiologist that

the first thing they want to see is how easily they can ventilate the patient with a mask and if they have trouble they know that's potentially going to be a patient that may give them difficulty later on when they're attempting to

intubate because when they go to intubate the patient if they're not successful they immediately stop and go back to bagging the patient they want to know that that's gonna be there their failsafe and that they have an

effective way of delivering breaths the difficult airway is going to be defined in terms of whether effective gas exchange can take place with an Ambu bag so at NYU we use the sorry we use the Mallampati so this classification system

attempts to grade the degree of airway difficulty the foundation of the assessment is that the tongue is the largest anatomical structure that can inhibit mask ventilation now again if you look at the research surrounding

this Mallampati used in isolation it's not useful you really want to look at all of the other airway assessment criteria that I just previously discussed because it's on our required documentation you know it can be

something that maybe providers get focused on just open your mouth cool and move on but it really is important to look at all the other components not to call out my attending sitting over there so this is a great mnemonic that I like

moans it's just a quick easy way to identify a patient that may give you a little bit of trouble when it comes to manual ventilation so M is for mask o for OB 3a for age and for no teeth and s for stiff lungs so you can see with this

patient here with the beard he has a lot of facial hair so that's a patient that you're gonna have a difficulty getting a good seal with and if you can see they actually covered his beard with Tegaderm in order to get an effective seal right

painful later but great for his airway um last thing yes at this point oh great this points you guys can still hear me okay so for this patient for for obese patients in general my biggest pain point I guess you could say is when I

see patients inappropriately position during procedural sedation and a nurse will call and say the patient's not really well sedated but his his capnography waveform looks all off he's occasionally having periods of apnea can

you come and help and the patient looks like this so a patient who's sedated is not going to be able to comfortably spontaneously mentally win their position like that you can see his airway is a little bit compressed here

he has to overcome extra body habitus in order to effectively take a breath so what you want to do is just ramp your patient and this is obviously extreme like if you're doing an angiogram you're not the providers gonna say what on

earth are you doing but what you can do is take that pillow out and put a little roll underneath the shoulders and you're gonna see the airway open up and if I get patients who come in and they can't be flat maybe they have congestive heart

failure so they have that pillow orthopnea you can position them like this give them the sedation and then take everything out that's what I always do you you want to make sure that you have

good positioning and that's going to set you up for success patients who are elderly or have no teeth are going to be what we call a dentist and they essentially just have loss of musculature in the face which is going

to correlate with surface area which means you're not gonna be able to get a good seal so what they did in this particular patient is they actually put gauze in to just increase that surface area and then patients with stiff lungs

are going to be patients who have a history of COPD or any other restrictive lung disease and they just may be difficult to ventilate Pharmacology and

talk about some more non-invasive ways

to image the lymphatics there's non-contrast at Marlon Payne geography this has been around for a greater than a decade we basically do a tea to fats at sequence and we basically really amplify the signal difference between

fluid and soft tissue and we really want to focus on fluid that's very slow moving so this is very good for people of lymphedema cirrhosis venous malformations etc you're gonna get very nice images it's non-invasive gives you

good spatial resolution but you can't see small structures and you don't have an idea of how things are flowing so just to kind of show you an image from my training and right there where the arrow is showing you the thoracic duct

right next to the aorta obviously fairly distended what I did actually in this patient as we were doing research to generate these images actually giving them didn't mr gave him a milkshake put him back in the mo and you see this

little thing plump up and is actually really cute dynamic a Marlon pan geography is a newer technique that's come along where basically we've combined what we do with nodal and faint geography where we put a needle into the

lymph nodes with what we do with regular mr which is to inject gadolinium we dilute the gadolinium we can inject it right into the lymph nodes and now you can have flow dynamics as well as faster mapping of what's going on with the

lymphatics a very useful technique that I use in complicated leaks in pediatric patients etc

one pain geography as we know it was first described in 1955 by Kenneth in

the UK and I always find it interesting that you know we sit here we talk about how not fun it used to be but he said well lymphatic vessels at least the normal ones are much smaller than our deserve Eanes they're hard to see they

contain colorless lengths etc so this is something that has not been a state secret for for a long time but in this case he actually I used the microscope you see a needle he's doing hand injection and he did a surgical incision

across the foot and when he did that he was able to generate these images so one of them is a normal empathic you see a very fine vessel with a hemostat at the bottom of the image and the other one that has his tortuous winding vein or

vein appearance or varicose vein appearance is actually an abnormal lymphatic so this technique was described in fifty five seven years later was described in Pediatrics very similar about

much more difficult as well and they were able to get some very nice images you see these examples of abnormal lymphatics and these pediatric patients so in my fellowship at Brigham we were still doing PETA limp angiography during

my training and usually whenever we started and sat around talk with our text and nurses in the morning you could hear the groans and you could see the frowns but basically we knew that we closed down a room for one day and it

would start by us injecting a freezing solution in the inners web spaces of the toes and then injecting this methylene blue dye we would then milk the foot up until the dorsum of the foot had a blue streak and that's where we knew the

lymphatic vessel was we'd make this vertical incision and skeletonize the vessel we tie it off with some silk we tape it down and then we would get to work trying to catheterize this little skinny vessel with a 30 gauge needle now

this process alone would usually take a couple hours and a lot of patience and then we'd fix our catheter up and attach it to a pump and it would go at a rate of five to eight CC's an hour it'd take a couple hours to get the pictures

through the leg a couple more hours to go from the leg to the rest of the retroperitoneum etc so now you've talked now you're talking six plus hours and you haven't even really done the case yet elegant images you see how fine and

wispy these vessels are we have many more lymphatics than you do any other vessel in your body we don't really have a good grasp with the distribution of of all the different variants that you have from person to person but there's a lot

of variation obviously a technically challenging procedure to have high-quality peda lymph angiography it's time-consuming invasive to patients you have this incision that would take several mattress sutures and a couple

weeks to heal but the images have good resolution it was diagnostic it was therapeutic in some cases of lymphatic injury leaks as well no to lymph

patient who did not come from the street so if you've been here for a few years

you've heard me talk about you know some of my friends this is also one of my other friends who has large fibroids but her fibroids were so big and they were not all very vascular and so I sent her to have surgery and she ended up having

a hysterectomy with removal of her cervix because of abnormal pap smears but her ovaries were left in place so our path forward after doing this procedure from 1995 a procedure that is not experimental a procedure that has

had a lot a lot of research done on it more research than most procedures that are done surgically or by interventional radiologists I'd say that it would require a partnership it is true that we can see patients on our own and we can

manage mostly everything but at the end of the day uterine artery embolization is still a palliative procedure because we don't know what causes fibroids to begin with and as long as the uterus is still there there's always a chance that

new fibroids will come back so in your practice and in mind I believe that a path forward is a sustaining program embolization program which is built on a relationship with the gynecologist that yes

I am as aggressive as any other interventionist that is out there but if this were my mom and that is my usual test for things I would say that where we would like to position ourselves is in the business of informing the

patient's as much as possible so that they can make an informed decision and that we're asking our gynecology partners to do the same is that if you're going to have a hysterectomy for a benign disease that you should demand

and we as a society and you as your sisters keeper should be asking for why am I not eligible for an embolization so si R is actually embarking on a major campaign in the next year or so it's called the vision to heal campaign and

it's all around providing education for this disease stage what I like to tell our patients and I'm almost finished here is when I talk to our gynecologist and to techs and nurses as well I said woody woody what should I expect right

that's what they want to know when I send my patient to you what should I expect and I say that what you should expect that Shawn and myself we're gonna tell the patient everything about fibroids we're gonna talk to them about

what the fibroids are the pathophysiology of it the same things I told you we're gonna tell them about the procedures that treat it we tell them about the options to do nothing we talk about all of the risk and the benefits

of the procedures especially of fibroid embolization and we start the workup to see if they're an appropriate candidate when they're an appropriate candidate we communicate with them and their OBGYN and then we schedule them for their

procedure in our practice there are a few of us who send our patients home on the same day and we let our patients know no one is kicking you out of the hospital if you can't go home that day then you'll get to stay but

most of our patients are able to go home that day and then we see our patients back in clinic somewhere between two and four months three months and six months and we own that patient follow-up their visits and after their year we have them

follow back up with their gynecologist and so that we're managing all of these sites and it comes back to that new again may not be so new for some of the people that have been doing clinical IR four years that shift that we own these

patients if you're a nurse in this room these are our patients these questions need to be answered by us in our department we do not believe that these patients should be calling their gynecologist for the answers to that

like what should I be doing right now should I be taking I haven't had a bowel movement and like that is something that we answer we're the ones that are given them the discharge instructions and we set them back up for their follow-up so

these kids just to show a couple cases from our study this was a three-month-old who'd had a congenital Kyle thorax as well as congenital ascites and you see that we're starting

be lymph angiogram it certainly looks very bizarre certainly not like anything else I'm showing you so far and you see if this child was actually born can generally without a thoracic duct or central lymphatic so this was a an

example of thoracic duct atresia unfortunately not compatible with life very rare thing that has published every couple years this was another child a little bit older 15 year old we wonder with scoliosis a corrective surgery lots

of screws had a great outcome from surgery unfortunately noticed right there that one of the screws went right through the thoracic duct so not a surprise this kid had recurrent Kyllo thorax we certainly didn't oblique here

to prove that it also went right through that structure we got our wire up and in all the way across and put our catheter up we'll put some coils right at the top and then place some glue across the whole thoracic duct and you see the two

areas where the site of injury were the two arrow heads at the bottom of the screen there so plastic bronchitis is a

PE the first one of course is

anticoagulation so heparin and bridging the patient to coumadin or now aid a direct oral anticoagulant is really the mainstay of treatment most patients again 55 percent of patients with PE have low risk PE all of those patients

should be on according to the chest guidelines three months of anticoagulation so they're gonna get heparin as an inpatient if they even need it and they're gonna get sent home on lovenox bridge to coumadin or they're

gonna get the one of the new drugs like Xarelto or Eliquis but here's all the other things that we do so these patients that are in the intermediate high risk so I'm gonna try to keep saying those terms to try to kind of put

that in everyone's brain because I think the massive and sub massive PE is what everyone used to talk about but we want to keep up with our colleagues in cardiology who are using the correct terminology we're gonna say high risk

and an intermediate but in those patients - intermediate high risk or Matt or the high risk PE patients we're gonna be treating them with systemic thrombolysis catheter directed thrombolysis ultrasound assisted

thrombolysis and maybe some real lytic and elected me or thrombectomy there's other techniques that we can use for one-time removal of clot like rotational and electa me suction thrombus fragmentation and then of course

surgical mblaq t'me so when anticoagulation is not enough so I like to show this slide because it shows the difference between anticoagulation and thrombolysis they are very different and sometimes I think everybody in this room

understands the difference but I think our referring providers don't and so when we when we get consulted and we recommend anticoagulation they're like yeah TPA well that's not the right thing so anticoagulation stops the clotting

process so when you start a patient on a heparin drip they should theoretically no longer before new thrombus on that thrombus so when you have thrombus in a vessel you get a cannon you get a snowball effect more

and more thrombus is gonna want to form heparin stops that TPA however for thrombolysis actually reverses the clouding process so that tissue plasminogen activator or streptokinase or uro kindness will actually dissolve

clot so there you're stopping new clot forming versus actually dissolving clot anticoagulation allows for natural thrombolysis so your body has its own TPA and so when you put a patient on heparin you're allowing your natural

body defenses to work you're giving it more time TPA accelerates that process so you give TPA either systemically or through a catheter you're really speeding up that process anticoagulation on its own has a

lower bleeding risk you're putting a patient on heparin or Combe it in it's it is less but it is still real thrombolysis however is a very very high bleeding risk patients when I when I consult a patient for thrombolysis I

tell them that we are about to do give them the absolute strongest blood clot thinning agent or an reversal agent which is the TPA and we're gonna just run it through your veins for hours and hours

um and that sort of gives them an idea of what we're doing anticoagulation in and of itself is really not invasive you just give it through an IV or even a pill thrombolysis however is given definitely through an IV through

systemic means and a large volume there thereafter or catheter directed so again

more rare condition that some of you may not have heard of but certainly something that wasn't familiar to me a

few years ago but basically people present by coughing up these rubbery casts of their Airways and what these rubbery casts are basically is a collection lymphatic food that's dried out and it just slowly fills in the

airways and they cough up these big things obviously an embarrassing thing to happen have happened to you at dinner can certainly affect your quality of life but I had one patient who saved who

saved a napkin and brought it to me to show me it and the clinic and I was like wow that's impressive please throw that away I believe you but you'll see patients congenital heart disease with COPD asthma tuberculosis cystic fibrosis

etc any of these patients can present with this particular issue what we found out by doing some of these mr so if we embolize these lymphatic vessels or find a way to bypass them the patients will have resolution of their symptoms and

it's an amazing change in quality of life it's only been done in adults as well as pediatrics I'll show you guys an example from the University of Michigan we did lymph and geography this gentleman was actually 500 pounds so I

couldn't do a mr on him and you see this weird tuft of lymphatic vessels right around his airway there on the left side bronchoscopy had already shown that that's where he was having his casts I was able to actually puncture him from

his neck and go retrograde he was a bit too big for me to go through the abdomen but he sees lymphatic duct looks all really fairly standard normal-looking anatomy with exception of that tuft of vessels we actually went down with a

sheath we put a stent graft a vibe on stent graft across that area we excluded those or normal vessels and his condition resolved within a month it's something he'd been living with for several years so fairly dramatic outcome

for this patient uncommonly I say we see maybe one of these patients a year but it's actually known - how to treat it and how to work it up it's very critical

well switch gears and start talking about Kyllo societies histology the

etiology of Callao societies historically used to be malignancy in tuberculosis first described in the 1600s in a two-year-old who had a tuberculous peritoneal disease more recently now we see it due to aggressive

surgery whether it's renal resections for kidney cancer lymph node resections etc it can also be due to cancer the incidence is climbing rapidly this is just a graph of the incidence at different hospitals from 1930s and 1980s

I can I don't have the data for the 2000s this was a graph that I actually generated from based on several studies just to show you how profound the leak can be in these patients well looking at what we do with

maduk college societies fairly similar to what we do elsewhere we map it out we have three major Studies on that right now and a lot of smaller studies so the total nineteen manuscripts ninety six patients and in those eighty two

patients had to report whether or not they saw a leak they saw a leak in 60 of those eighty two patients and when we saw a leak we were able to cure 70 of them just by doing than paying geography and eighty eight percent when we were

able to actually embolize it so again going from in ninety percent mortality at one year if you have caused societies due to cancer or forty percent for any other cause to cure with the simple procedures is pretty amazing just to

kind of show you an example this was 55 year old gentleman who had removal of his left kidney they found a seven centimeter renal cell carcinoma incidentally while he was being worked up for a kidney stone it had been six

months of constant Kyllo societies and loss of 63 pounds before he saw me here's a lymph angiogram showing fairly typical anatomy until you see this little leak and you see the surgical clips there where his kidney was and all

of the hollow pile spilling around and surrounding his spleen I'm doing this and then we did an embolization right around that area he sent me an email two months ago just before I left the University of Michigan thanking me for

changing his life and saving his life another example this gentleman had had major debulking surgery for for testicular cancer he also has had prior bone metastasis with a hip replacement there and you see a bilateral leaks he

see multiple drains they couldn't control his fluid and we embolize all of these small leaks around his pelvis and also fixed him as well and just she see all the focal areas of leak throughout this was a three year old who'd had a

Wilms tumor resection we're mapping them out and you see the area of leak in the center there and was able to fix this child as well discharged and continued on his merry way cured protein losing

where the rubber hits the road is how we and what we do with this and the first

entity that we started treating with skyla thorax and what kyla thorax is basically a milky pleural effusion you guys I'm sure I've seen this you're doing a thoracentesis on a the food that comes out actually pretty

thick it's not clear it's almost this milky color the patients are usually fairly ill they've had Safa geo surgery lung cancer surgery heart surgery etc we test the fluids for triglycerides and chylomicrons and if that's positive then

we know it's a kind of thorax historically these patients would be treated by not being fed given TPN and maybe octreotide they'd maybe go to surgery if they received no treatment they had 50% of them died six to 12

weeks later if they went to surgery 12 percent of them died if they went to surgery 40% of them had major complications so you can see if this was a major opportunity for us to step in and really change the outcome for these

patients as I said Constantine Koch did the first procedures on this but I'll show you what it looks like this is doing a central and fangy Graham and we're serial images you see that leak accumulating on the right side the

right pleural space we have our wire and catheter in all ready and all we're gonna do is we're gonna start coiling up at the area across the leak and put more coils and a little bit of glue at the end when we do that we have a very high

success rate you see four major studies that have been published from 2004 to the present you see the first ones doctor copes major study 42 patients from UPenn the second one is also from UPenn 109 patients the next ones from my

Hospital Brigham and Women's where I did my training and then the last ones from Pittsburgh there have been subsequent studies as well but this included over 400 patients between these there was a meta-analysis in jvi our last year

showing that the lymphatic interventions for Kyle thorax pretty successful looking even at old technology that were used for the embolization zhh 400 patients nine studies 80% success rate across all these different centers I

would say in experienced hands a success rate exceeds 95% for traumatic Kyllo thorax at the present so we know that this is a pretty respectable for the treatment of Kyle of thorax a CR has some guidelines out for how the thorax

treatment as well encourage you to take a look at them it can break it down between traumatic and non traumatic caudal thorax and gives you some recommendations of how to approach it

pediatric catholic's is a little bit slower to treat generally everything in peds is a little bit slow to be adopted we obviously want to be very careful with our most vulnerable patients so the types of disorders that pediatric

patients are slightly different because they can have congenital or idiopathic I authorities it can be from lymphatic malformations or from different syndromes it certainly be from congenital heart surgeries and other

issues that they may have going on there have been several reports published at our institution University of Michigan we publish the largest cohort of pediatric patients and it was only eleven but ultimately we showed that

thoracic duct embolization was just as effective just as safe in this population our youngest kid was only two weeks old our smallest kid was two kilograms so a very vulnerable very small structures but you can still do

and still have fantastic outcomes for

they travel together so that's what leads to the increased pain and sensitivity so in the knee there have been studies like 2015 we published that study on 13 patients with 24 month follow-up for knee embolization for

bleeding which you may have seen very commonly in your institution but dr. Okun Oh in 2015 published that article on the bottom left 14 patients where he did embolization in the knee for people with arthritis he actually used an

antibiotic not imposing EMBO sphere and any other particle he did use embolus for in a couple patients sorry EMBO zine in a couple of patients but mainly used in antibiotic so many of you know if antibiotics are like crystalline

substances they're like salt so you can't inject them in arteries that's why I have to go into IVs so they use this in Japan to inject and then dissolve so they go into the artery they dissolve and they're resorbable so they cause a

like a light and Baalak effect and then they go away he found that these patients had a decrease in pain after doing knee embolization subsequently he published a paper on 72 patients 95 needs in which he had an

excellent clinical success clinical success was defined as a greater than 50% reduction in knee pain so they had more than 50% reduction in knee pain in 86 percent of the patients at two years 79 percent of these patients still had

knee pain relief that's very impressive results for a procedure which basically takes in about 45 minutes to an hour so we designed a u.s. clinical study we got an investigational device exemption actually Julie's our clinical research

coordinator for this study and these are the inclusion exclusion criteria we basically excluded patients who have rheumatoid arthritis previous surgery and you had to have moderate or severe pain so greater than 50 means basically

greater than five out of ten on a pain scale we use a pain scale of 0 to 100 because it allows you to delineate pain a little bit better and you had to be refractory to something so you had to fail medications injections

radiofrequency ablation you had to fail some other treatment we followed these patients for six months and we got x-rays and MRIs before and then we got MRIs at one month to assess for if there was any non-target embolization likes a

bone infarct after this procedure these are the clinical scales we use to assess they're not really so important as much as it is we're trying to track pain and we're trying to check disability so one is the VA s or visual analog score and

on right is the Womack scale so patients fill this out and you can assess how disabled they are from their knee pain it assesses their function their stiffness and their pain it's a little

bit limiting because of course most patients have bilateral knee pain so we try and assess someone's function and you've improved one knee sometimes them walking up a flight of stairs may not improve significantly but their pain may

improve significantly in that knee when we did our patients these were the baseline demographics and our patients the average age was 65 and you see here the average BMI in our patients is 35 so this is on board or class 1 class 2

obesity if you look at the Japanese study the BMI in that patient that doctor okano had published the average BMI and their patient population was 25 so it gives you a big difference in the patient population we're treating and

that may impact their results how do we actually do the procedure so we palpate the knee and we feel for where the pain is so that's why we have these blue circles on there so we basically palpate the knee and figure

out is the pain medial lateral superior inferior and then we target those two Nicollet arteries and as depicted on this image there are basically 6 to Nicollet arteries that we look for 3 on the medial side 3 on the lateral side

once we know where they have pain we only go there so we're not going to treat the whole knee so people come in and say my whole knee hurts they're not really going to be a good candidate for this procedure you want focal synovitis

or inflammation which is what we're looking for and most people have medial and Lee pain but there are a small subset of patients of lateral pain so this is an example patient from our study says patient had an MRI beforehand

workflow for pet MRI upon arrival the patient have to fill out questionnaires the MRI screening for contrast and allergy assessment pet screening form

the RT will review MRI screening for after he checked that the patients at MRI safe and no presence of a Mia Ferris fragments or anything he would give the paper to the RN the patient then will be escorted through the change room and

asked to put on robe and non slip shots this is these are the responsibilities of the nurse in our clinical workflow for pet MRI RN to review pet screening form and contrast questionnaire if patient have to receive gadolinium check

kidney function EGFR below 15 you notify the radiologist except for a of s below 30 you notify the radiologist check for allergies if allergic make sure patients is properly pre-medicated

check for Medicaid presence of medication patches and implanted infusion pumps now also you have to check for patient's blood glucose monitoring I have one but I would but I don't go inside the scanner so I'm safe

check for pregnancy status with pediatric patients we have a special process to follow the iron then obtains blood glucose and record if blood glucose is 70 to 199 we proceed with the scan anything above 200 we follow the

glycemic management with PET imaging flow chart and here's how our PET imaging flow chart looks like it looks complicated by its color coded it's three pages but I would like to show you some key points like the administration

of insulin is also based on the level of BMI you see on the arrow says BMI below 25 and there's another flow chart is if it's above 25 after that the patient will be brought back to the pet designated injection room

remember our pet MRI is located in zone three of the MRI area so prior to that the RT would the screen the patient again the patient would pass through the wall-mounted metal detector and nobody could go into song free without escorted

by the IRT or a nurse you have to swipe your ID to open the door mission when the patients in the hot room are in would obtain the height in centimeters and weight in kilos after that the RN now could do IV access once

secured you call the range of pharmacists that you're ready to inject so we wait until and the FDG dose would come up through the pneumatic children this is how our hot lab looks like the pneumatic tube to your left above is the

shower and we have the hoop to prepare for the dose or check for the dose and the wash station and once the those arrives the nurse injecting and the RT is scanning or the RT assisting just always two artists in one machine in our

MRI Department we have four magnets and only one is for MRI PET MRI it's always two artists in each machine so one RT is assisting you and with the patient so once the FDG arrives we do a patient identification using two patient

identifiers we check the label and the dose if it's correct the FDG then will be injected to the patient once injected we tell the patient they have to wait for 40 minutes during this time we instruct them to stay still not stay

still but limit movement and stimulation and inform them that we have a camera inside that room and the nurses in a and the nurses could monitor them in the nurse's station one RT will set up the scanner and computer

and patient will be screen and wondered prior to so on for so you get wandered twice check for ferrous presence patient then will be positioned on the scanner table by the pet mr technologies it takes 15

to 20 minutes for setup you have seen how the patient is position the whole body is covered by the coils and head is covered by another coil as anybody among he works in the institution who requires time out prior to injection raise your

hand please at ms KCC we do this is done by the injecting nurse and the RT is scanning the RT is reading information directly from the monitor not anywhere in the monitor while the nurse is comparing and listening into the using

the documents on hand this is done to ensure the five rights the right patient the right scan the right area your scanning the right contrast those and rate and method of administration as you all know is either given IV push or by

the dynamic or the injector timeout will be done if patient will be receiving gadolinium once the scan is finished IV access will be removed our artists are trying to remove and inject also so they are capable of removing the IV the

radiation card will be handed to the patient and paste after that patient would be assisted to the change room and discharge there is good thing when you change the patient into the robe and the non-skid

sucks because just in case there's a spill you're not sending that patient into the paper outfit they're not gonna be happy at all now I'm gonna bring you

catheter some other things that we can do is mechanical intervention so if you have a patient usually with massive PE

or the inner or the high-risk B you got to do something to help them out so what we do is put a pigtail catheter and inject a little bit of TPA on the table and then twirl the pigtail or put a wire through the side part of the pigtail and

make it sort of a mechanical fragment fragmentation the problem with that is that fragmented clot goes downstream so when it's in a main pulmonary artery it actually has less surface area than it is when it is in a distal pulmonary

capillary so when you break that clot up you have to be careful because it can actually make the patient worse the benefit there there's no thrombolytic so if we're doing this we we generally are doing it in patients who can't either

receive TPA at all frequently we get patients with who have have had recent spine surgery who get a massive PE had brain surgery get a massive PE and you have to try to treat them without any TPA or even heparin the drawbacks are

that again it increases pulmonary vascular resistance by sending all those little pieces of clot into the small pulmonary arteries and capillaries and it makes it actually much worse in some patients again there's no control trials

and sometimes you need to have a bigger

questions comments and accusations please hello this topic is very personal to me I've had it actually had a UFE so this is like one of my big things I work in the outpatient center as well as a

hospital where we perform you Effy's and frequently the radiologist will have me go in and talk to the patient it's from a personal perspective one of the issues which it may just have been from my situation was pain control post UFE

whether you normally tell your patients about pain control after the UFE someone say we are all struggling with this yeah oh it's not what's your question is going to be okay good I'm gonna get doctor Dora to answer Shawn the question

is what do you what do we do with this pain issue you know what are you doing for the home there at Emory there you know and a lot of practices we we don't rely on one magic bullet for pain control recently we've been doing

alternate procedures for two adjunctive procedures to help with pain control for example there are nerve blocks that you can do like a superior hypogastric nerve block there's there's Tylenol that can be given intravenously which is seems to

be a little more effective than by mouth there's there's a you know it and a lot of times it's it's a delicate balance right between pain post procedural pain because you can often get the pain well controlled with with narcotics opioid

with a pain pump but the problem is 12 hours later the patients is extremely nauseous and that's what keeps her in the hospital so it's a it's a balance between pain control and nausea you can you can hit the nausea

beforehand using a pain and scopolamine patch that that'll get built up in the system during the procedure and that kind of obviates the nausea issues like I said that the the nerve blocks the the tile and also there are some other

medicines that can can be used adjunctive leaf or for pain control in addition to to the to the opioids so the answer the question is there are multiple there multiple answers to the question there's not one magic bullet so

that helped it did one of the things that I tell the patients is that you know everyone is different and yet some people I've seen patients come out and they have no pain they're like perfect and then some come out and they are

writhing in the bed and they're hurting and they're rolling all around what and I always ask the acid docs are you telling them they could possibly have you know pain after the procedure because some have the expectation that

I'm going to be pain-free and that's not always the case so they have an unrealistic expectation that I'm gonna have the UFE but not have pain what I also tell them is that the pain it's kind of like an investment right and

this is easy for a guy to say that right but but it's it's an investment the worst part the worst pain you should be feeling is the first 12 12 hours or so every day I tell my patient you're gonna be getting better and better and better

with far as the pain as long as you is you follow our little cookbook of medicines that we give you on the way home and I want you to make sure that you fill these prescriptions on the way home or you have someone fill those

prescriptions for you before he or she picked you up in the hospital and lately we have been and I see that you're there as well lots of other little tricks that are out there right and again there are all

little tricks so ensure arterial lidocaine doctor there is near alluded to and if you're on si R Connect you may it may spill over on some of your chat rooms here people have been using like muscle relaxant like flexural or

robertson with some success but just know that we don't have any studies that tell us how that's supposed to do so when i have someone that is like writhing in pain i just use everything so i do it superior hypogastric nerve

vlog and i actually will do some intra-arterial lidocaine although not so much lately i have been using the muscle relaxant but i will warn you that i've had two patients with extreme anticholinergic effects where they are

now not able to pee from that so you know where we're doing that balance act I see that you're there can I take that question here first just so we're we're doing the same thing we're using the multimodal just throwing all these

things at people and we're trying the superior hypogastric blocks but we're collaborating with anesthesia to do that right now do you all do your own blocks or do you collaborate with anesthesia we do our own blocks okay it isn't it is

not that difficult I would tell you that but again it's kind of like you know you got to do if you start feeling better and then you're like we don't really need them we'll just do it on our own okay thank you again yes what's the

acceptable interval between UFE and for IBF oh that's a your question what is the interval between UFE and IVF so if you wanted to get pregnant yeah and can you have a you Fe and then have an IVF like how long would you have to wait

wait and tell you before you can have that the IBF it I guess it really depends on the age of the patient because we know that that the threshold for which patient tend to have that inability to conceive

is around 45 years old so you know it did below the you know below the age of 45 the risk of causing ovarian failure or or the inability to conceive is significantly less it's zero zero to three percent so I would say that you

know you probably want the effects of the fibroid embolization to two to take effect it takes around 12 months for these fibroids to shrink down to their most weight that they're gonna they're going to shrink down the most I wouldn't

say you need to wait 12 months to put our nine vitro fertilization there's no good there's no good literature out there I don't believe that's your next and so I would say just remember that if you came to my practice and you said you

wanted to get pregnant I will be sending you to talk to fertility specialists beforehand we do not perform embolization procedures as a way to become pregnant there's no data to support that but if you saw your

gynecologist and they said let's do this then I'm sure they'll be doing lots of adjunct things to figure out what would be an ideal time then to for you to have IVF and if I dove not having any data to inform me I would ask you to wait a year

and what will be the effect of those hormones that they gave you if for example a patient has existing fibroids what would be the effect of those hormones that IVF doctors prescribed their patients yeah so fibroids actually

can grow during pregnancy so I would say that most of those hormones are pro fertility hormones so I would expect that maybe you can see some of that effect as well yeah alright if you have any other questions you can grab me oh

you're I'm sorry go with it okay yes we we have time I don't want to keep anybody here for that so I have a two-fold question the first one is post-procedure can you use a diclofenac patch or a 12-hour pain

patch that is a an NSAID have you have any experience with that and your next question my second part of the question is there a patient profile or a psychological profile that tips you that the patient is not going to be able to

candidate because of their issues around pain so they're two separate but we have in success sending people home that first day so I'm looking to just make it better I haven't had experience with the Clos

phonetic patch it's in theory it seems ok you know these are all the these are they're all these are non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs so there are different potency levels for all of them they you know they range from very low

with with naproxen to to a little bit higher with toradol like that clover neck I think is somewhere in between so we found that at least I found that that q6 our our tour at all it tends to help a lot so with that said I I don't have

much experience with it with the patch in answer to your second question the only thing I can say is there there is a strong correlation between size of fibroids and the the amount of a post procedural pain and post embolization

syndrome so there really you know we often say we don't really care too much about the number of fibroids but the size of the fibroid is is is should be you know you should you should look at that on pre procedural imaging because

if it gets too big it may not be worth it for the patient because they may be in severe pain the more embolic you put into the blood supply's applying the the fibroid the the greater the pain post procedural pain

are there multiple other factors that would contribute to pain but that's that's one aspect you can you can look at post procedurally on imaging okay thank you very much yes ma'am hi what what kind of catheter do you use

to catheterize the fibroid artery when you pass by radio access yeah so over the last three years the companies have been really very good about that so there are a few things that I without endorsing one company or the other that

you need to make sure that the sheath that you're using is one of those radial sheets a company that makes a radio sheath you should not use a femoral sheath for radial access so no cheating where that's concern you may get away

with it once or twice but it will catch up to you and you need a catheter that is long enough to go from the radio to the to the groin so I'm looking for like a 120 or 125 centimeter kind of angled catheter whether it's hydrophilic the

whole way or just a hydrophilic tip or not at all you can you can choose which one in our practice most of us still tend to use a micro catheter through that catheter although if I'm using a for French and good glide calf and it

just flips into like a nice big juicy uterine artery then I may just go ahead and take that and do the embolization if the fellow is not scrubbed in as well so thanks a lot but they make they make many different kinds like that and more

of those are to come all right I'm you can please please please send us any other questions that you have thanks for your time and attention and enjoy the rest of the living

thrombectomy is another popular way of treating patients there's a lot of different aspiration catheters the SPX catheter is actually not available currently in the US but what it basically is I can have the rectum a

device that spins in such backlot the Indigo thrombectomy system from penumbra is a yet another device that sucks out clot I think many of us have used that it's kind of like a vacuum cleaner but usually more like a dust

hand vac where it's going to suck up thrombus the angio vac is much more like a Hoover where you're going to use and put a patient on veno-venous bypass that requires a 22 French sheath and a 17 French sheath but that will take out

thrombus I personally prefer using NGO vac in the IVC in big large thrombus for that and not in the pulmonary arteries because it's very inflexible but it's very very useful in a few patient populations in

all of these devices there is no TPA that needs to be given you're just sucking out the clot and you're actually removing it from the patient's body rather than dissolving it and sending it downstream the drawbacks on all of these

devices is their larger access points the SP or X is around six French although that's not that much bigger penumbra device is 8 French and the as we mentioned the angio vac is 22 French

so I'm gonna show an example this is a 57 year old male who presented with a dis neo

he had World Health Organization functional class 3 meaning it's significantly affected his life he can't walk up the flight of stairs really tired walking from the parking lot of his favorite restaurant back to this car

can't really walk around the grocery store he had a history of DVT and PE also had afib he actually went to the ER and was diagnosed with upper respiratory tract infection which many of these patients are they've put him on

antibiotics then for pneumonia he had a VQ after one of his doctors just felt like he just wasn't getting better and it found multiple mismatch defect I'm sorry I don't have those pictures he was actually started on home oxygen after

all of that work up it was found that he had CTF and this required I think three different hospital visits and every time got kicked up to sort of a higher acuity place and then he ended up at our place so these are his pulmonary angiogram

images here I don't know if I can play these but the still images kind of show you that the images on the right show that there's basically no vessels going out distally so I mentioned pruning of vessels there's no branches in the right

upper lobe if you look at the right lower lobe at the tip of the catheter there's areas of stenosis right where the segmental arteries start and on the left you can see that the left pulmonary artery is denuded essentially the entire

left upper low branch is excluded by a rim of thrombus and in the left lower lobe the image on the bottom my bottom right there's actually no branches going to the left lower lobe into the lingula so this is a patient that has had very

bad CTF their main the pulmonary artery pressures are listed there of 77 where the normal high is 25 so three times the normal pulmonary artery pressure so this patient went on to an operation so the image on the right the photograph is

actually the clot that they removed from the operation and that patients pressures improved from 77 to 22 immediately after the operation so they go to the ICU they have a swan-ganz catheter left in place and you can

measure their pressure right afterwards and you can see that that clot they grabbed it it looks like a bunch of fingers well what they do is they crack the chest open like with a mini sternotomy they make an incision in the

pulmonary artery after they put them on bypass and then they basically grab they use they're a little deBakey's the DeBakey forceps and they grab this little elevator and they just start scooping

out the clot and they try to grab it as one big piece take it out and then you get that nice photograph on the side if they break off pieces it's actually worse because that's an area that a pulmonary artery dissection can occur so

it's a very complex operation but you get very nice results and afterwards these patients are sent home usually on lifelong anticoagulation thereafter so

know we're running a bit short on time so I want to briefly just touch about

some techniques with comb beam CT which are very helpful to us there are a lot of reasons why you should use comb beam CT it gives us the the most extensive anatomic understanding of vascular territories and the implications for

that with oncology are extremely valuable because of things like margin like we discussed here's an example of a patient who had a high AF P and their bloodstream which tells us that they have a cancer in her liver we can't see

it on the CT there but if you do a cone beam CT it stands up quite nicely why because you're giving levels of contrast that if you were to give them through a peripheral IV it would be toxic to the patient but when you're infusing into a

segment the body tolerates at the problem so patient preparation anxa lysis is key you have them exhale above three seconds prior to that there's a lot of change to how we're doing this people who are introducing radial access

power injection anywhere from about 50 to even sometimes thirty to a hundred percent contrast depends on what phase you're imaging we have a Animoto power injector that allows us to slide what contrast concentration we like a lot of

times people just rely on 30% and do their whole the case with that some people do a hundred percent image quality this is what it looks like when someone's breathing this is very difficult to tell if there's complete

lesion enhancement so if you do your comb beam CT know it looks like this this is trying to coach the patient and try to get them to hold still and then this is the patient after coaching which looks like this so you can tell that you

have a missing portion of the lesion and you have to treat into another segment what about when you're doing an angio and you do a cone beam CT NIT looks like this this is what insufficient counts looks like on comb beam so when you see

these sort of Shell station lines that are going all over the screen you have to raise dose usually in larger patients but this is you know you either slow down the acquisition speed of your comb beam or

you raise dose this is what it looks like after we gave it a higher dose protocol it really changes everything those lines are still there but they're much smaller how do you know if you have enhancement or a narrow artifact you can

repeat with non-contrast CT and give the patient glucagon and you can find the small very these small arteries that pick off the left that commonly profuse the stomach the right gastric artery you can use your comb beam CT to find

non-target evaluation even when your angio doesn't suggest it so this is a patient they have recurrent HCC we didn't angio from here those arteries down there where those coils were looked funny even though the patient was

quote-unquote coiled off we did a comb beam CT and that little squiggly C shape structures that duodenum that's contrast going in it this would be probably a lethal event for the patient or certainly would require surgery if you

treated that much with y9t reposition the catheter deeper towards the lesion and you can repeat your comb beam CT and see that you don't have an hands minh sometimes you have these little accessory left gastric artery this is

where we really need your help you know a lot of times everyone's focused and I think the more eyes the better for these kind of things but we're looking for these little tiny vessels that sometimes hop out of the liver and back into the

stomach or up into the esophagus there's a very very small right gastric artery in this picture here this patient post hepatectomy that rides along the inferior surface of the liver it's a little curly cube so and this is a small

esophageal branch so when you do comb beam TT this is what the stomach looks like when it enhances and this is what the esophagus looks like when it enhances you can do non contrast comb beam CTS to confirm ablation so you have

a lesion this is the comb beam CT for enhancement you treat with your embolic and this is a post to determine that you've had completely shin coverage and you can see how that correlates a response so the last thing we're going

lymphatics you know I have this nice lymph angiogram image on the right side

of the screen here you see a plethora of lymph nodes you see a lot of fine detail not an easy image necessarily to get historically and that's for a few reasons one lymphatic fluid unlike your blood is clear right we can all look at

somebody's hand and you can look at the veins and you can see the hand an IV can go right in you can't see what the lymphatics aren't and beyond that beyond it just having clear fluid it's also has relative to blood not that many cells

which makes it hard to see and the vessels are pretty small so I've magged up on just one lymph node there and you see that one little lymph node has about 28 faire and efferent vessels going to it

so each the size of each one of those vessels is less than a millimeter in size so you can imagine if they just do a surgical biopsy and excise one of these lymph nodes in one patient they've damaged at least 20 different vessels

and if they take out multiple lymph nodes you can imagine the damage to the circulation to that particular extremity and that's why the patients end up having some of these complications the lymphatics are driven by valves

predominantly you see all these little sac you lations inside and that's where the valves are but we don't really have a good grasp for how many valves is normal with the distribution of valves and patients etc there's no central pump

so unlike the circulatory system which is dependent on the heart the lymphatics are dependent on skeletal and smooth muscle to help move things along the first method to image lymphatics historic who's actually limb for

scintigraphy and the first the first actually marker that was used was a gold base did a scintillation camera and they had some images you know it's not something we do commonly now for the purposes of detection we actually use it

as a functional scan to help guide some degree of therapy the spatial resolution is fairly poor particularly compared to fluoroscopic images but the current uses are still there particularly for sentinel lymph node

mapping breast cancer melanoma patients and/or lymphedema this is an example of a patient who had a melanoma on their back or this could easily just as well be a breast cancer patient you do an injection around the tumor and you see

what lymph node the the tracer drains to so this is a functional imaging test which can be very useful in guiding therapy when you compare that to a peripheral lymphedema you see what it looks like in this case you see one

patient in five and sixty minutes and within 60 minutes the tracer has gone from the feet where you inject all the way up to the neck that's actually a normal lymph flow centigram and that patient you look at their extremities

they're fairly symmetric you look at the second patient and you see that one leg the left leg is asymmetrically swollen compared to the right you see that the injection at five hours on that swollen extremity has not gone up above the knee

and you see it really going to the skin surface so that's a typical appearance for somebody who has lymphedema okay so it exaggerated but a fairly typical appearance you see that once the contralateral extremity is actually

traversed and gone all the way up to the thoracic duct up into the neck so we certainly see the that lymphedema is useful but the detail really isn't there

talk here with something that's new on the horizon believe it or not it was actually on the horizon 20 years ago and then it went away because there were a lot of patients that were treated with a

lot of complications and it's making a resurgence and this is balloon pulmonary angioplasty or BPA for short so this is an intervention which may be feasible in non-operative candidates so I mentioned to the Jamison classification earlier

type 1 and type 2 disease should be treated with surgery again it should be treated is curative but patients with type 2 and a half or 3 disease can be treated with balloon pulmonary angioplasty in the right in the right

frame which means that a surgeon has said I cannot operate on this a medical doctor has said boy they're not going to get better with their medicine let's try something else well this is that something else and that's what involves

everyone in this room so this is these are usually staged interventions with potentially high radiation and contrast dose if you think about it it's like Venis recan and a pulmonary AVM all-in-one so it's a potentially a long

complex procedure with a lot of contrast and a lot of radiation but it can provide a lot of benefit to these patients I'm going to talk about the comp potential complications at the end which is one reason why not

everyone should do these all the time so this is a pulmonary angiogram from the literature when you're injecting a selective pulmonary artery you can see that this patient has multiple stenosis there's no real good flow there the

vessels look shriveled up like I mentioned to you before you can get a balloon across it and balloon the areas and then you can see afterwards so the image a on the left is before an image D is afterwards believe it or not this are

in the most experienced hands because the most experienced hands are for palm the BP AR in Japan they do hundreds of cases of these a year at each hospital I've personally only done five so but this is a something that I'm very

interested in and you can see how how much benefit it has for that patient another way you can see these are the webs and the bands that I mentioned to you earlier so what's interesting is that if you look on the first set of

images on the top and the images on the bottom those are the same patients it's the same view before top rows before and the bottom rows after balloon pulmonary angioplasty so the first image is a pulmonary angiogram where if you kind of

see this there's there's some area areas of haziness those are the webs and bands the image on the the middle is the blown-up views and you can see those areas and then the image on the right is intravascular ultrasound which I use

every day in my practice it's a catheter with an ultrasound on it and when you look at it on the top image image see you can see a lot of thrombus you're actually not seeing flow and on image F on the bottom you're seeing red which is

the blood flow so these patients can actually improve the luminal diameter bye-bye ballooning them you can treat occlusions again image on the left shows you a pulmonary artery with a basically an occlusion proximally and then after

you reek analyze it and balloon it you can see that they can get much more

plan as well so I wanted to talk a

little bit about imaging I know with our residents and fellows and radiology that's all we do is talk about the imaging and then when go on to IR we talked to them about the intervention but I think it's important

for everyone in this room to see more imaging and see what we're looking at because it's very important for us all to be doing on the same page whether you're a nurse a technologist a physician or anybody else in the room

we're all taking care of that patient and the more information we all have the better it is for that patient so quick primer on a PE imaging so this is a coned in view of a CT pulmonary angiogram so yeah sometimes you'll see

CTS that are that are set for a pulmonary artery's and you'll see some that are timed for the aorta but if the pulmonary arteries are well pacified you're gonna see thrombus so I have two arrows there showing you thrombus that's

sort of blocking the main pulmonary arteries on the left and right side on the patient's left so the one with the arrow that is a sort of very classic appearance of an intro luminal thrombus you can see a little rim of contrast

surrounding it and it's usually at branch points and it's centered in the vessel the one on the right with the arrow head is really at a big branch point so that's where the right lower lobe segmental branches are coming off

and you can see there's just a big amount of thrombus there you can see distal infarct so if you're looking in the long windows you'll see that there's this kind of it's called a mosaic perfusion but it also what kind of looks

like a cobweb and that's actually pulmonary infarct and maybe some blood there which actually will change what we're gonna do because in those cases freaken we will not perform PE thrombolysis it's also important to note

that acute and chronic PE which we're here to talk about today may look very similar on a CT scan and they have completely different treatment methods so here's a sagittal view from that same patient you can see the CT scan so

between the arrow heads is with the tram track appearance so you'll see that there's thrombus the grey stuff in the middle and you'll see the white contrasts surrounding it and kind of like a tram track and that's very

classic for acute PE and then of course where the big arrow is is just the big thrombus sitting there here's another view of a coronal this is actually on a young woman which I think we show some images on but you can see cannonball

looking thrombus in the main pulmonary arteries very classic variants for acute PE and then this is that same patient in a sagittal view again showing you in the left pulmonary kind of those big cannon balls of

thrombus here's some examples from the literature showing you the same thing when you're looking at an acute PE it's right centered on all the image all the way in the left if the classic thrombus is centered right in the middle of the

vessel you can usually see a rim of normal contrast around it and you can see on a sagittal or coronal view kind of like a thin strip of floating thrombus so the main therapies for acute

technically step by step of how tips are done okay and and the ideal tips with

every step of this procedure I'm gonna show you two ways of doing it okay and the advantages and disadvantages of the two ways in every step okay so first of all the primary thing is to get into the portal vein and how do you visualize the

portal vein okay so one way is to do co2 Vinogradova nog Rafi to hit the portal vein me with experience no I don't need co2 venography to hit the portal vein but I still do it in an in a teaching institution because I have texture that

are learning nurses they're learning and physicians are learning so I actually do the imaging for them so they actually can get the general idea of what we're doing this is our target this is where we're coming off and that's it but in an

experience hands is it necessary absolutely not okay so co2 photography very helpful for in teaching and teaching institutions so everybody and the whole team can actually know exactly what our target is so not essential like

like we discuss and there are two methods of doing this and in a funny way I'm gonna show you that's actually the same method but one is a micro of the other one okay so two ways one way is then wedge a catheter that's the old way

kind of more traditional way than let's not call it always more traditional way of doing a co2 port and the other one is using a balloon of balloon occlusion castra and this is wedging it with a four French five French catheter you

take it all the way to where the catheter is larger than the hepatic vein and now you've wedged it okay and this is kind of a mag up you see that that's a little that's a little wedge okay you wedge you inject contrast the contrast

just sits there it's wedged it's trapped okay and then this is with a balloon to your left is a balloon full of air to the right full of contrast and you basically trapped it again you fill contrast and consciousness it's there

what's the difference between this image and this image no difference the only difference is size that's all it's the same idea you're just trapping a segment of the liver the difference is this is a very

small segment and this is a larger segment okay so essentially it's actually the same technique one is just well technically when it comes to your side all one needs a four or five French calf the other one needs a balloon

occlusion caster okay same image so then you inject co2 the key thing here if you're the type of physician where you put contrasts you have a balloon sitting or a wedge and you have to count contrast there okay

rookie mistake is that they leave the contrast and then they hit the co2 okay what is that you've lost the advantage of the co2 in the beginning of your bolus is actually contrast okay so you need to bleed out the contrast and

replace it completely co2 so your entire bolus okay is co2 and not and not and not the and not the contrast okay that defeats the purpose why is co2 advantageous over contrast contrast is a thick fluid co2 is gas is viscous it's

volatile it actually can squeeze through tight spaces as it's a gas and that's what we want we want to squeeze that co2 which is a contrast through the sinusoids reflux it back into the portal circulation so we're trapping it and

we're trying to push co2 squeezing it through the sinusoids refluxing it back into the portal circulation so you can actually visualize the portal circulation okay and all and the disadvantage of a wedge is what you see

here if you're a wedge and you're immediately sub capsular and you slam you slam that co2 aggressively what you will get is an explosion you get a rip of those of the hepatic capsule scroll the glisten capsule and then you've got

a leak and if the patient is quite low is a quite low path they can actually die from this believe it or not they will die from this and not die from the needle passes okay so that's kind of co2 and that's kind of

a little a little passive air into the perineum nice imaging not a good outcome so one way to avoid this is to still wedge but wedge away from the hepatic capsule so you're out in the periphery in the paddock veins but you're deep

inside the liver you're not you're not right underneath the capsule so that's one way of doing it the other another way is to actually use a balloon okay so this is this is just another wedge here okay and you actually use a balloon I'm

just showing you a correlation with a balloon it's a little safer because you're a little distance away from from the hepatic capsule I'm just showing you a more and more image of the same thing co2 with correlation after you access

since it's a beautiful correlation with with the portal vein venogram okay there are problems with wedges and with balloons is that sometimes you get a gas you know a co2 leak you're wedged but there's hepatic veins at vadik vein

connections and all you see is a fatty veins you can't force reflux the co2 into the portal circulation so that's one problem okay so what do you do with that you change the sights just change a different different branch okay try to

avoid that connection between the badeck veins and it back veins go somewhere else where there is no connection where you can actually make a true hip wedge and force that co2 into the portal circulation okay another way this is

just a draw a drawing out whether it alone or a catheter you get that you get the escape from the Patek vein to fatty vein is to go distal go beyond that connection so if you can go distal go distal if you can't go distal then

change your branch try to find a place where there is no hepatic vein tip a degree engine attraction preferably but not necessarily not the same branches connected to because that usually goes both ways but not always sometimes

you're lucky and if that connection is kind of like a one-way valve one way street and it's not a two-way street but that's just sheer luck okay this is an example hepatic vein to about a vein connection and what we did was basically

switch to another place another vein and we actually get the portal venogram here okay next up sting crafts Viator's thank

we're gonna move on to embolization there a couple different categories of embolization bland embolization is when

you just administering something that is choking off the blood supply to the tumor and that's how it's going to exert its effect here's a patient with a very large metastatic renal cell lesion to the humerus this is it on MRI this is it

per angiogram and this patient was opposed to undergo resection so we bland embolized it to reduce bleeding and I chose this one here because we used sequentially sized particles ranging from 100 to 200 all

the way up to 700 and you can actually if you look closely can see sort of beads stacked up in the vessel but that's all that it's doing it's just reducing the blood supply basically creating a stroke within the tumor that

works a fair amount of time and actually an HCC some folks believe that it were very similar to keep embolization which is where at you're administering a chemo embolic agent that is either l'p hi doll with the chemo agent suspended within it

or drug eluting beads the the Chinese have done some randomized studies on whether or not you can also put alcohol in the pie at all and that's something we've adopted in our practice too so anything that essentially is a chemical

outside of a bland agent can be considered a key mobilization so here's a large segment eight HCC we've all been here before we'll be seeing common femoral angiogram a selective celiac run you can make sure

the portals open in that segment find the anterior division pedicle it's going to it select it and this is after drug living bead embolization so this is a nice immediate response at one month a little bit of gas that's expected to be

within there however this patient had a 70% necrosis so it wasn't actually complete cell death and the reason is it's very hard to get to the absolute periphery of the blood supply to the tumor it is able to rehab just like a

stroke can rehab from collateral blood supply so what happens when you have a lesion like this one it's kind of right next to the cod a little bit difficult to see I can't see with ultrasound or CT well you can go in and tag it with lip

Idol and it's much more conspicuous you can perform what we call dual therapy or combination therapy where you perform a microwave ablation you can see the gas leaving the tumor and this is what it looks like afterwards this patient went

to transplant and this was a complete pathologic necrosis so you do need the concept of something that's ablative very frequently to achieve that complete pathologic necrosis rates very hard to do that with ischemia or chemotherapy

alone so what do you do we have a

after having these two cases one in our institution and one at University of North Carolina Chapel Hill that we would then basically upsize our particles to

100 micron and we have not seen that and we're doing a second clinical study and I'm not seeing that as either we had about a 70% reduction in pain so if you look at our visual analog score out to six months and if you look at our

disability it actually paralleled this exactly which is pretty impressive considering mostly patients had bilateral knee pain so out to six months very good results 90% of patients were responders so two

out of our twenty patients did not really respond one patient didn't respond at his one-month follow-up but did respond at his three and six so I still consider him a clinical failure because we expect

these patients to respond by one month here's just an example of a baseline MRI before and after and you can see all that joint effusion there the white that decreases just even after a month how much it decreases and we looked at this

in terms of synovial thickness and distension and even on MRI you can object objectively count calculate synovitis scores and we calculated that they actually statistically decreased this is another patient on the left the

image shows diffuse white enhancement if you will of the synovium of the lining on the right it shows the fluid this is an image just of embolization and I show this image because it's really shocking and this is actually one of our nurses

who's enrolled in a clinical study is this is before this is all we did we embolized the medial aspect of the knee this is one month later 30 days in fact somebody just asked me this when I was in the booth over at the meeting across

the street and basically I said listen I don't know why this happened so quickly I have no idea we didn't tap renu-it into anything else if you look at this premium post it's pretty dramatic so clearly there's an inflammatory process

that we are arresting or stopping in such a short period of time so is there a future for this I don't know it may just we may just fall down and find out that there really is in a great future but so far we know it's at least

technically successful it's the results are positive in the short term long term we're not so sure yet we do need to better understand these risks and I think in my opinion in the long term it'll probably be really really good for

this 40 to 65 year old patient population who's not yet ready for knee replacement surgery this is the algorithm for our clinical study which were almost done enrolling right now it's a randomized control study against

placebo so it's two to one randomization which means one third of the patients actually get a sham procedure so we do an angiogram on their leg they're asleep they have no idea for embolizing they're genetical it arteries or not we wake

them up I think about the table and we follow them up if they're no better they're allowed to cross over and get the treatment the other 2/3 of the

criteria for CTF means that the patient has a mean pulmonary arterial pressure which we measure intraoperatively exceeding 25 millimeters mercury at rest with the mean pulmonary capillary wedge pressure less than 15 so I'm not a

cardiologist but what that means to me is a mean capillary pulmonary wedge pressure less than 15 means that their left heart is not failing so if you have a capillary wedge pressure higher than 15 that means your left heart is not

working correctly and you can't blame it on the CTF so you can't blame it on the right side if the left side isn't working other things that matter are the abnormal pulmonary vascular resistance and having a systolic pulmonary artery

pressure greater than 40 so what I want to show you and highlight is the law the lost art of pulmonary angiography which i think is now sort of again a lost art some places do a lot of it and some places don't do very much but diagnostic

pulmonary angiography is actually the gold standard in the planning of either surgery or medical management for patients with CTF we do we do these on almost all of our patients with CTF to make that decision with the surgeons and

the cardiologists so the utility is very it's very useful you're able to measure our pressure you're able to decide whether we're the where the thrombus exists in this image here in patients with disease in the

blue and yellow outlined areas those are the patients who can have the operation the operation is curative it's not just medication that you have to take for the rest of your life you can actually remove that chronic clot it's much like

a femoral endarterectomy that are done for patients with peripheral arterial disease although it's a lot more complicated because they have to crack your chest open what's important is getting very very

good high-quality pulmonary angiogram xand so we do we used to do about we do about a hundred of these a year where I trained or actually where I work now and you get very magda up views and you're gonna show all of the vessels and so

these are the views that we use at our institution they happen to be the pipette criteria so it's the same thing you used to do for acute PE you put a flush catheter in the main pulmonary arteries when you're looking at the

upper lobes and when you're looking at the lower lobes you want to push the catheter further into the pulmonary arteries and inject usually what I do is a two to three second injection so that you can stack the images very well and

show all of them in one view this allows your surgeon to make a decision easily as to whether they can operate or they can't operate on this and then I use a higher frame rate usually because these patients are wide awake we when we do

this case we give our patients twenty five mics of fentanyl one time and that's it just to help get the sheath in I usually do this with a seven French sheath and then use a flush cap pulmonary artery catheter many of which

are currently off the market but when we do this we just give them that twenty five Mike's because they have to hold their breath and I usually go up to a high frame rate in the first run and then adjust based off of how well that

patient is holding their breath this really takes a team effort from our nursing technologists and the and the physicians in the room to make sure that this patient does a good job because it's gonna change their management so

there are a lot of different types of angiographic findings on one of these pulmonary angiogram they're really really interesting pulmonary angiogram zin these patients and they're sometimes not at all subtle so you're looking for

a pruning of distal vessels if we start in the top left where you're just not seeing the Brent normal branch pattern you look for stenosis so we're not usually used to looking at stenosis and the pulmonary arteries but this is

actually what you're looking for in CTF you're looking for webs or bands so you'll usually see little areas where you just doesn't look like there's great opacification there's little areas that there's not good at pacification those

are little webs inside the vessel believe it or not looks like a cobweb that grew inside there from that thrombus and then you're looking for areas of complete occlusion that there's just no vessels there those are all

vessels that can be treated in patients with CTF so this is the Jameson classification before we talk about the sort of the interventional management the surgical management is again the curative and dr. Jameson is the head

surgeon at University of California in San Diego which is the largest Palm CTF program in the in the world and he's done I think over 3 500 of these operations I think he's retired at this point but they named the classification

after him and so type 1 is proximal disease so it involves the main pulmonary arteries these are the ideal patients who can get the best benefit from this in their life type 2 is the next best

it's segmental proximal just type 3 is distal segmental and then type 4 is just a mess of sort of all of it but you can't really get a good surgical plane so type 1 and 2 are treated with pulmonary thromboembolism

towards balloon pulmonary angioplasty or BPA and type 4 are generally treated with medication so PT II or pulmonary

craft is basically the only FDA approved stain crafts and I'll show you a

different way of doing it as well besides the Viator especially in countries where the Viator does not does not exist okay the Viator stand sits in the liver just like just like in my hand here the bare

portion is on the portal venous circulation the covered portion is basically on the hepatic vein part of the circulation okay the bare portion is chain-linked and is very flexible that's why kind of cut can crimp like that okay

they're both self expanding the bare portion is self expanding held by the sheath only the covered portion is held by a court okay so they're both self expanding but they're constraints by two different two different two different

methods one's a sheath constraint and one is a is a cord constraint okay these are the measurements the bare portion theoretically allows portal flow to pass if you're in a branch so it doesn't cost from boses of the portal vein branch in

the covered portion is important to cover the parental tract the youth that you've created in the past you had a lot of billary leaks into the tips if it's a bear stance bile is from by genic so it causes thromboses bile also instigates a

lot of reactionary tissue such as pseudo intimal hyperplasia that actually causes the narrowings of the of these tips if you causing bear stance the coverage stance prevents the bile leaks from actually leaking into into the shunt

itself okay and that's why it has a higher patency rate okay ideally this is how it's it's a portal vein and hepatic vein you'll hear people say proximal and distal you'll he'll hear radiologists especially diagnostic

radiologist referring to proximal and distal proximal and distal some people refer to the portal venous and is proximal some people refer to the paddock venous and is proximal and vice versa okay and it

gets confusing nobody knows well what's proximal okay the people that say portal venous and is proximal there they're talking about its proximal to flow so it's basically the first thing that flow hits people that

call the paddock venous and proximal they're talking relatives of the body more central is proximal more peripheral is distal okay so they're using these the same terminology is very confusing so the best thing to use and I we tell

that to radiologists who tell that to IRS is to talk a portal venous and hepatic venous end you don't talk proximal distal everybody knows where the portal venous end is and where everybody knows where the peregrinus end

is and there's no confusion strictly speaking which is the correct one which is proximal for us as IRS tax nurses proximal is always to flow proximal is always anticipate to flow so the correct thing is actually proximal

is the portal venous ends remember P proximal P portal okay proximal is where the expected flow is coming in that's actually the correct one but just to leave e8 the confusion portal venous and hepatic venous end okay there's a new

stents which is the controlled expansion stents it's in my opinion it feels exactly like the old stance the only difference between it is that it's constrained still has the same twenty to twenty millimeter or two centimeter bare

portion chain-linked it still has that four to eight centimeter covered portion but it's constrained in the middle okay and has the same gold ring to actually market the to the to a bare portion and the cover portion self expanding portion

and is constrained down to eight millimeters you can dilate it to eight and nine and ten initially there was a constant there was a misconception that it was like a string like a purse string that you break and jumps from eight

and no this is actually truly a controlled where if you put a nine-millimeter balloon it will dilate to nine only eight balloon little dialect to eight only the only the only key thing is that the atmospheres has to

be ten millimeters at least okay so it has to be a high pressure balloon has to be at least 10 min 10 10 atmospheres okay so when you're passing that that balloon over make sure that it's that that it that at least it's burst is 10

millimeters or or EXA or more on a 10 mil on on 10 atmospheres okay next thing is when you're making a needle pass you got your target now with a co2 you got the portal vein you've got your stank craft and you know how it works okay how

do you make your needle pass okay and how do you know if your needle has hit the portal vein or not there are two schools to do this okay one school is to make a needle pass and aspirate as you pull back and when you get blood back

you basically inject contrast okay before you do all that when you make your needle pass you push saline and especially if you do if you're using a large system so there are several kits out there there is the cook kits that's

a color pinto needle that's a large gauge 14 gauge needle there is the new gore kits which is also 14 gauge needle it's a big system these large systems you need to push out that poor plug that's kind of like a biopsy you have to

push it out with saline first and then as you pull back aspirate okay the other system is a ratio cheetah or a Rocha cheetah it's actually pronounced rasa schita and that's a very small system that there won't be a core that you have

to push out okay so anyway if you're using a large system like a coop into a needle which is the cook system or the gore system you push that plug out and then there are two schools school two aspirates you get blood back you inject

contrast if you're in the hepatic in in the portal vein you basically access it with a wire the other school is to do a ptc style you actually puff contrasts as you pull back you do not ask for H saline you actually puff

contrasts as you pull back okay the latter puffing contrasts as you pull back is the minority I would say less than two percent of operators are gonna puff okay ninety-eight percent of operators at

least are gonna actually aspirate and not puff okay I'm actually in the minority I'm in the 2% and there are advantages and disadvantages like I promised you two different ways and advantages and disadvantage to each to

each one the advantages of puffing contrasts even if you missed the portal vein after a while you actually get contrast around the portal vein and you actually have a visual of the portal vein that's the advantage so when you're

actually injecting contrast and you're missing it you get contrast around the portal vein it actually goes around the portal and you actually see the portal vein and it takes training sometimes this one's easy

okay I'll show you some more difficult ones but this is a beautiful pussy typical portal vein okay in addition to that oh go back in do you see that you see that hole in the middle there see that signal signal you watch that

because you're gonna see it again and again that's usually a posterior portal vein posterior right portal vein heading heading away from you okay that's usually a good target and I'll show you that again here's a little

little bit less obvious to the untrained eye but this is actually where the portal vein sits right there okay so sometimes it needs training right just actually see where the portal vein is and once you've stained the portal vein

then you have a real-time image of where the portal vein is you can actually go go after it and it reduces your needle passes disadvantages of using contrast and puffing away is that it creates a mess okay if you make multiple passes

you and you miss on the multiple passes then you start creating a mess and even with your DSA you can't even see the portal you can't see the portal vein because you've got this great mess another disadvantage of using contrast

is that you have to stomach what you're gonna see okay you make a needle pass and you don't inject contrast you have no proof of where you've been but if you're making a needle pass and you're

injecting contrast you and everybody else is gonna see where you've been that's usually not a good thing sometimes you will see bowel you see gold bladder you'll see arteries you'll see veins you'll see all sorts of stuff

that nobody wants to see and you don't want to document okay so that's another disadvantage so I recommend especially young physicians especially young physicians in places that are not used to this especially young physicians that

are new to hospitals and they're gonna they're gonna make multiple passes not to do this was they're gonna be very they'll be criticized a lot by their texts and by the institution by their colleagues as to what have you done you

know big mass artery you've hit artery but the guys and gals that are just aspirating and not injecting they're actually not documenting what they're going through but they're going through the same stuff okay

okay next up this I think this video yep

to talk about is indirect angiography this is kind of a neat trick to suggest to your intervention list as a problem solver we were asked to ablate this lesion and it looked kind of funny this patient had a resection for HCC they

thought this was a recurrence so we bring the comb beam CT and we do an angio and it doesn't enhance so this is an image here of indirect port ography so what you can do is an SMA run and see at which point along the

run do you pacify the portal vein and you just set up your cone beam CT for that time so you just repeat your injection and now your pacifying the entire portal vein even though you haven't selected it and what to show

well this was a portal aneurysm after resection with a little bit of clot in it the patient went on some aspirin and it resolved in three months so back to our first patient what do you do for someone who has HCC that's invading the

heart this patient underwent 2y 90s bland embolization microwave ablation chemotherapy and SBRT and he's an eight-year survivor so it's one of those things where certainly with the correct patient selection you can find the right

things to do for someone I think that usually our best results come from our interdisciplinary consensus in terms of trying to use the unique advantages that individual therapies have and IO is just one of those but this is an important

lesson to our whole group that you know a lot of times you get your best results when you use things like a team approach so in summary there are applications to IO prior to surgery to make people surgical candidates there are definitive

treatments ie your cancer will be treated definitively with curative intent a lot of times we can save when people have tried cure intent and weren't able to and obviously to palliate folks to try to buy them time

and quality of life thermal ablation is safe and effective for small lesions but it's limited by the adjacent anatomy y9t is not an ischemic therapy it's an ablative therapy you're putting small ablative radioactive particles within

the lesion and just using the blood supply as a conduit for your brachytherapy and you can use this as a new admin application to make people safer surgical candidates when you apply to the entire ride a panic globe

thanks everyone appreciate it [Applause] [Music]

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