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An Overview of Fibroids | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
An Overview of Fibroids | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Symptoms of Uterine Fibroids | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Symptoms of Uterine Fibroids | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
What are the Options? | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
What are the Options? | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Ideal Uterine Fibroid Embolization Candidates | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Ideal Uterine Fibroid Embolization Candidates | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Fibroid or Cancer | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Fibroid or Cancer | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Outcome data | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Outcome data | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
UFE and Adenomyosis | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
UFE and Adenomyosis | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Benefits of UFE | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Benefits of UFE | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
The Path Forward | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
The Path Forward | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
UFE Summary | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
UFE Summary | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Q&A Uterine Fibroid Embolization | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Q&A Uterine Fibroid Embolization | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly

hello hello it is my honor again to be invited back I consider it an extreme privilege to be asked to give this lecture almost every year I am amazed constantly at the talent that I get to work with and for the friendships that I have established over the years of

coming to this meeting thanks for inviting me can you hear me yes fantastic and so I'm gonna talk for a few minutes about something that is my passion and although I'm a woman I don't want anyone to think that just because

I'm a woman then women's health is my thing I actually choose to do this because who else could do this if not me and so I have no actual disclosures for this talk I want to have some disclosures so if you're from Medtronic

Boston Scientific and wherever please I I would love to have some disclosures I won't be making any money from doing this and that and if I would make money I think I would still do this it says here that I will be discussing some

awful label devices but I have taken them out of the talk so I won't be and so for year after year I've been coming and telling you that I'm almost 50 I don't know if you've heard me speak before and I'm saying that I am almost

50 and when I become 50 and this year I'm a little bit closer to that I will join an exclusive club of women who by the time they're 50 80 % of them if they're black will have fibroids 80% of them and so just know that today I'm a

little bit closer to that I want to acknowledge my nurses and technologists that I work with back home at Emory I'm actually amazed to be a part of double-team it is because of them that I'm not sued and it is because of them

that I'm going to be sued and I absolutely love them so we're

establishing a few things I know that we may have a mixed crowd here and so if I'm saying things that you're like oh come on Newsome we already know that

just just rush me along but if I'm if I'm repeating some other things that that are more interesting then you can slow me down so it is no surprise and I'm often frightened when people say that fibroids

are along the spectrum of cancer fibroids are non-cancerous tumors of the uterine muscle if you remember a little thing about Anatomy that the uterus is made of three specific layers the myometrium which is the main muscle of

the uterus the endometrium wishes the inside part of the uterus and the serosa wishes like a saran wrap of sorts that keeps the whole thing together fibroids are made of the main muscle portion of the uterus and we don't know what it is

but something happens and it turns that muscle portion of the uterus on and when it over grows it grows into a ball and we refer to that ball as a fibroid fibroids are the most common pelvic tumors in women it is the leading cause

of hysterectomy in the US and even though we've been doing hysterectomies forever one third of all hysterectomies that are done in the United States are done for benign disease and we know all kinds of sexy ways now to stop bleeding

you freeze it you make it cold you make it hot we have Lube cautery and all kinds of things and still in 2019 we can't stop the bleeding from fibroids which then result in women who are scheduled for

myomectomy to have a hysterectomy as a way of controlling the bleeding so there are a few other things that we know about fibroids we know that the symptoms are very varied depending on where these fibroids actually end up and

the symptoms of heavy bleeding still remains the most common symptom dysfunctional uterine bleeding abnormal heavy menstrual pain menstrual cycles pelvic pain and symptoms of bulk that is I cannot drink a can of coke before I've

got to go to the bathroom I know every rest stop between my house and where I've got to be every time I laugh or sneeze I pee on myself I'm doing 200 sit-ups a day and I'm wearing two Spanx if that is happening to you that's not

normal we also know that fibroids have a high impact on the quality of our patients lives and their productivity because if you can't go to work and you take off from work and you're really not able to

take your kids to the soccer game or do all the other things that you really want to do then I think that that is really quite disruptive of your life and yet women year after year suffer from these types of symptoms and do not come

to getting any type of treatment at all in fact they don't even tell their doctors about it because they just accept that as kind of normal and the average time from when women start suffering from these symptoms to when

they actually seek treatment is around three and a half years and I work in Atlanta and the average time is away above that and I would say to you that just go with me here and I'm sorry for any male that is in the audience that

will be offended but if you could imagine now now just use my own husband for example if he could not have an erection for two weeks in a row I think he would see the doctor immediately however women will wait for five years

with all kinds of symptoms and not actually seek any treatment forget an erection if they're constipated for two weeks in a row they go to see the doctor this is a real public health burden and I know that I talked about the survey in

2013 and where si are is doing a big thing called a fibroid fix it's available on the website we'll see if there's a way that we could link it to the avir website but just last year they repeated this survey of around a

thousand women but guess what these statistics had not changed around a third of the women continued to complain of this interruption in the quality of their life due to fatigue or cramping and three-quarters of these women still

prefer a minimally invasive uterine sparing procedure they still want to preserve their uterus even if fertility is not an issue and although I just told you that like 80% of black women will have fibroids by the time they're 50 and

70% of white women there's around a quarter of all women that have never ever ever even heard the term fibroids for a disease that is so common and this affects so much whim so many women and it is still so costly in terms of how

much days they have to take off from work and what they have to do in order to get treated we spend around thirty four billion dollars a year in the u.s. that is on par for the amount that we spend for colon cancer and ovarian

cancer combined for benign disease and yet not much has been done so if you're

in the audience here I'm actually trying to engage you and recruit you as ambassadors even if you are not a woman you have a mom you have a wife you have

a sister I am My Sister's Keeper and I will ask you to be the same a lot of women are just embarrassed about this they don't even know if it's normal or not and if you're a black girl and 80%

of black women have this problem you kind of start thinking it's normal and you don't start thinking it's so abnormal until you run into another demographic or you casually mention it to your gynecologist and they tell you

that none of these symptoms are normal if you don't own a pair of black of white pants or white dress that is also not normal so I don't single my patients out as much I just have them look you're not alone these are some more prominent

black women that suffered publicly from uterine fibroids probably the most noted is Condoleezza Rice who had uterine fibroid embolization performed by dr. Spees and went on to talk about it but so did some lanta housewives who had

their fibroid embolization done on TV by dr. Lipman there's some other things that we do know about it that it doesn't matter if you're like a black girl in the US or in in Africa or in Jamaica like we do know that fibroids have

something to do with fat because estrogen is stored in fat but it really doesn't seem to follow much about where you live we actually know a few other things that plant-based diet if you eat a plant-based diet then your symptoms

tend to be a little less but it doesn't really protect you from having a fibroid so on this slide we have basketball players models politicians people that exercise feverishly and people who don't exercise at all this slide again is to

remind me to say that this is probably the only thing I think every fibroid has in common with Donald Trump and it's all about location location location because it's all about the real estate that you take up in the uterus

that's how it tells us what kind of symptoms you will have so if we recap there are three layers of the uterus and fibroids are actually from the muscle portion of the uterus but the symptom that you end up with depends on where

the fibroids end up so if you have a fibroid and I'm hoping there's a pointer somewhere and there isn't but if you have a fibroid that kind of pooches in towards the inner lining of the uterus we refer to that as a sub mucosal

fibroid it touches that mucosal surface and if you have a fibroid that is totally within the muscle it doesn't seem to push in or out that is considered an intramural fibroid it just makes the whole thing go big but it

doesn't have a propensity for one side or the other or a sub serosa fibroid is a fibroid that pushes out towards the outside it's touching that saran wrap layer of the uterus and we refer to that as a sub serosa fibroid and these are

just like really cheap way of figuring it out now there are other classifications we call the FICO classifications that is subdivided but no need to know all of that but the symptoms follow these where these

fibroids live so it's easy to see that like what kind of fibroid would this be a sub serosa fibroid is practically like it is hanging off there's a normal uterus with fallopian tubes on the side the suspensory ligaments and then here

is that fibroid that is like just hanging out on the outside and that's the kind of fiber that can cause constipation diarrhea bowel symptoms if that fibroid was touching the bladder then that's a fibroid that would cause

urinary symptoms that is a sub serosa fibroid so now we've talked about the

symptoms we've talked about the location so what are the options now I've kind of scared everybody enough said okay fine if my periods are last in more than

seven days if I have pain with my periods if I have clawed if I have painful sexual intercourse back pain hydronephrosis and sciatica all kinds of these little things then maybe I could be having fibrous what do I do about it

and there are several options obviously I'm here to talk about embolization but because everybody in this room is talking about informed consent every day we have to be able to talk to our patients about what are the options and

I always try to start off with the simplest of options doing something or doing nothing remember this is not a cancer this is a benign disease and it's important that we explain to our patients that they also have the option

of doing nothing although doing nothing has some consequences right every action has a consequence and the consequence of doing nothing includes continuing to have your disease continuing to be sick and abnormal and if you chose to do

something let's say a surgical option then obviously you can have hysterectomy or myomectomy now Maya met to me is just where you're cutting out the fibroid hysterectomy is taking the whole uterus out and then there's a whole series of

other things whether you're having it laparoscopically or transvaginal Eeyore I'm here to talk about uterine artery embolization we offer all of these options to our patients though because it's important that we at least know

that there are other options to be done

so who are the most ideal candidates for fibroid embolization obviously I would say the most ideal candidates are patients that are symptomatic and I've told you already that 80% of black women

have fibroids but guess what only half of those will be so symptomatic that they would need to be even treated so just because fibroids exist don't mean that they need to actually be treated already so you

to actually have symptoms most patients that are symptomatic will again wait to getting treatment for like three and a half to five years but when they come we want to make sure that they're symptomatic and that they're not trying

to become pregnant and I know somebody in the audience has a question around that already so let's hold your high horses I'm coming to that how about patients that don't want to have surgery or just don't have time to

have surgery they don't have time for long recovery if you don't care if you have your uterus or not then I'm not so sure that you need to be pursuing a uterine sparing procedure okay and I'm gonna pause here to address one other

thing that it's a myth it is a myth that if you do not need to have children then you do not need your uterus I beg to differ and when we talk to women they are quite upset about this preposition that the uterus is only there for

baby-making purposes in fact there have been several studies now that have come out to say that women that have had early hysterectomy even with their ovaries in place are predisposed to coronary artery disease or

cardiovascular events we would like patients that are poor surgical candidates because if they can have surgery then they may be able to have surgery or patients that do not desire future fertility patients that have

already concerns about hysterectomy because of religious reasons or don't want to have hormonal therapy and I actually like patients that have have a have obesity because if we are able to do this procedure then they're spared

more complications related to surgery so the ideal patient then and this is a very important point said all three criteria would need to be fit that if you're a patient in order to be offered embolization number one

you have to have fibroids believe it or not you have to have symptoms that are related to fibroids and then you have to have some MRI that says that the location of where your fiber it is is causing that symptom and that these

fibroids are vascular let me explain okay and I'm going to skip this so I've been working with people for a long enough time and I've work of Julie for years I've worked with Diane and Anna and some other people for like ten years

and imagine if you're working with me for ten years you know that you're probably going to be able to do this procedure too like you're scrubbing right next to me eventually like you pick these things up what I get paid for

is not to do that and for the experienced nurses and techs that are in the room you know exactly what I'm talking about you're better than the doctors half of the time you really could do this procedure but what I get

paid for is to decide who does not even get to come on the table to get this procedure done so pay attention to this slide and these this criteria is being challenged every day and we're getting more and more data to say that this is

old information that we used to say if the uterus was like more than six months then you probably shouldn't have a uterine sparing procedure but we know that we do in embolization all the time in patients that have large fibroids

anyway but there's no data to actually give us that information most of the trials that we have and we have had a lot of them they have excluded patients where their individual fibroids were greater than 12 centimeters if you have

had an indeterminate and de metrio biopsy or you're having abnormal pap smear doing a uterine sparing procedure makes no sense so we use these imaging to really help us to determine which patients really

deserve to be treated so everybody can see that that image on the Left where it says submucosal refers to and I'm gonna try and come down so I can see these images here and you can see that there is a fibroid that is in

truck hava teri do you see that that round thing that is surrounded by the white fluid that is someone that has what we would call a type zero fibroid completely within the unit of course this is going to cause bleeding but

should this person have a uterine artery embolization or a hysterectomy Gail no this patient should have like hysteroscopic resection like a D&C and they would just scrape that thing out and then their symptoms would go away or

the patient on the right that has a normal appearing uterus and then this pedunculated gigantic thing that has bled into itself that is like a sub serosa fibroid of the extreme just hanging off on the outside now should

this patient have embolization no someone can tie a string right at that little connection and take that thing out so using our imaging to help us to decide which patients should be treated is very important or this patient who

came with Oh dr. Newsome I've been bleeding for 10 weeks in a row I have reversed cycles I have bulk I have bladder symptoms and yet they have that little dot that little black thing there that little dot

at the top that is the only place where there's a fibroid so this patient should not be a candidate for embolization either because yes they have symptoms and they have that little tiny daughter for fibra but that is not what's causing

those symptoms so it is important that we're not doing procedures on patients just because we can but because we're using our imaging and the patient's symptom to decide which patients are the best candidates for these procedures

so one of my favorite age-old questions is okay so how do you know that I don't have a cancer and I don't know because cancers can exist were there fibroids and we know a few years ago there was a black box warning put out for a more

salacious device which is how most UI ends remove large fibroids and that was due to the fact that if you go it looks like a blender of source like a handheld blender and it just kind of blends up big fibroids so that they can move it

out in chunks but if a fiber but if a fibroid existed in the uterus where there was an indolent cancer and you blend that whole thing up then you've just made everything a little bit blood-borne then something that was not

meant to be an aggressive disease process is now accelerated to an aggressive process and now those patients who had worse outcomes and that's why the device is still having a black box warning and is off the market

but it has really not that much to do with fibroids becoming cancer it's just that they both can exist in the uterus and if you are doing a uterine sparing procedure you could be missing a cancer having an MRI beforehand helps us out

just a little bit and we have discovered many cancers of patients that are asymptomatic in that way and they look kinda like this so when you look at these two and I'm telling you that the person on the left

those dark round things that that's a fibroid then you could probably see the thing on the right and say well that doesn't look quite like the thing on the left one looks like it could be a fibroid one maybe not so much so this is

a patient that came to see me in clinic and she had bulk symptoms she brave though she had bleeding symptoms she decided she was going to have a pair of white pants and she worried that day two clinic

but you can see where and I'm not able to point this out so I'm hoping that you can really do see that where she has her navel which is a dot that little crease on the MRI and then her uterus is above her navel and II and you can see that on

her and when I touched her abdomen I could tell that this was no fibroid at all so we had her image and done on the right hand side and it too looked very abnormal and so she went on to have a hysterectomy this was a cancer again

two other images that really talking about how MRI although it helps us to tell whether the fibers of vascular or not that it can also help us to find other things such as this person that has an endometrial cancer also very

aggressive cancer and they presented the exact same way abnormal bleeding and painful bleeding with clots so blood bulk symptoms with bleeding MRI not so much this is a cancer all right so what do I tell my patients when I see them

and they say dr. Newsome could I have a cancer I tell them what the FDA says the FDA says that there's a one in 350 chance that's what's on their website that you have a cancer and you have a fibroid at the same time but that's

really really high the American College of obstetrics and gynecology actually put out a position statement and revised that and they said that's way too high and they said it was somewhere between one and five hundred and the SI are with

dr. Spees looked at that number and said well we didn't think that it was that high either it's somewhere one in 750 or 800 so sadly I'm into big numbers so I just round it up I tell patients that's like a one in a thousand chance that you

can have a fibroid there and I'm gonna get an MRI and I'm gonna see if there is any chance if anything looks suspicious and the good thing is that I'm gonna keep seeing you for a year in a year after so that if I've missed something

then we're gonna be able to see it I said before that I'm super proud that I'm from Emory I'm from the home of dr. Chandra schnell who I had told to come and help me to give this talk but because I was running behind I hope he

doesn't feel compelled to come but we have put out our criteria and standards of practice for years that helps to inform us this is not something that is oh so new this is something that has level

evidence to support one of the the procedures that we do and this is very unusual for the things that we do in NIR where we have level 1 or level A's evidence that says that and because of the work that the society has done and

no doubt some of the people that are in this room I know for sure Julie was involved because we were doing these when I was in Alexandria the the trials to answer this question the American College of obstetrics and gynecology had

to adopt this as a part of their position statement to say that based on the long and short term outcomes uterine artery embolization is proven to be safe and effective option for appropriate patients in selected women who would

like to retain their uterus and that is still there a position statement today although I'm aware that they're revising it they're revising it because of the

new data of the Emmy trial that came out last year our ten-year results saying

that after ten years after ten years women who wanted to retain their uterus they looked at them in ten years three-quarters of those women were still very very satisfied and also were still able to retain their uterus so ten-year

data came out randomizing people for uterine artery embolization versus hysterectomy of the women who chose you to an artery embolization ten years later they were still very happy so I tell my patients that this is what you

should expect that you will have symptomatic improvement in 12 months around 85 to 95 percent of the patients are pretty happy there is a entry intervention rate it is not zero and it can be higher than ten

depending on what kind of Imogen is seen ahead of time and that we know that dysfunctional uterine bleed tend to do a little bit better than bulk type symptoms and that's partly because of subjective nature of that so this is one

of the patients that I treated when I was in in Virginia and Riverside and she's a former miss Brazil and she came to see us with what she also called reversed cycles like she would bleed more than she would not and she was

wearing depends and it took everything to just coach her out of the car to come inside to do a consultation because she was so afraid that if she got out she would be sitting in a pool of blood and she had an MRI showing what looked like

a eleven point seven centimeter fibroid she had embolization and that was her six month follow-up MRI to the right which looks like a very impressive result they don't all look this way which is why I save this image something

that looks like a normal uterus now I for the persons that I told to hold your high horse here is the time okay so what happens if I want to have a baby because these are the things you remember we're being ambassadors for this procedure we

need to be having the answers for the things that are our friends and family members are going to be asking us so if you want to have a baby I would say that the data that informs us as to what to do with you is still very weak but the

only randomized prospective trial that we have out there says that you should actually have myomectomy and a Cochrane review was also done and it still says that there's very low level evidence suggesting that myomectomy may be

associated with better fertility outcomes as opposed to UAE but more research is needed and we still require more research so at the very least what I have to do and now you feel compelled to do is to send my patients to see

someone who is a fertility specialist in consultation so we can make this decision together so if your poor surgical candidate if you have the gazillion fibroids and if you've had surgery before a hostile

abdomen and the patient says you know what dr. Newsome there's nothing that you can tell me ever to say that I'm going to have surgery then we're going to be doing something else that is not surgery okay the other thing that your

patients may be asking you is like what about adenomyosis and I've been hearing something about that which is not exactly fibroids right it's a different entity though the symptoms could be kind of the same and for the years and years

and years we wouldn't have any options for patients who had adenomyosis in fact the only option for patients with adenomyosis is surgery but adenomyosis can coexist with fibroids and sometimes patient presents with adenomyosis alone

so we've had some studies now that have looked at that and although the data is not as robust and not as awesome as for patients with fibroids we do provide a performing bolas Asian for those patients with particles that are little

smaller than what we would use for fibroids with results as you're seen there before now the only other new thing that's on the market and it's not so new to you guys that are probably doing radial in femorals anyway working

in cardiac labs and IR labs it's actually what we call the trophy if you go back one slide for me mr. a the person and press play then we will be able to see that radial access I do not work for Merritt they don't give me a

dime I just thought that this was a good video is there volume on that at all if not I can just talk about it and really what it says is that if you need to a radial UFE or have radial axis for a uterine embolization patients just love

it more they and especially like patients that are already just intimidated they don't want you going near their groins at all they actually could just lay on the table we don't have to put up we don't put a Foley in

they just get a radial access the same way that you would just be starting in a line except we have special types of radial catheters and and sheaves to do that and I don't offer a radial access to

patients who are too tall for our catheters or if they've had multiple prior radial access and don't have an intact ulnar artery to complete their hand but it's much like any of that femoral access that you would normally

see they make special hydrophilic sheaths now they're called from this particular company slender technology where the inner diameter of the sheath essentially the sheath is the same like five French on the outside but they have

cored out the inside so it's a bigger diameter so it's a five six so on the outside it's a five but it will take a six French in the inner inner lumen and you know my practice we do more than 80% of all our arterial punctures with a

radial access and everybody here comes dr. Sean Deroche Nia who is the leading author of that paper for SI R and one of my esteemed partners so most patients are able to get up and walk out if you are go from a radial access the access

is actually closed with just a radial band and the complications of having a hematoma or having the patient's bleed out those just all go away but radial axis have their own complications so I'm not here to say that it is not that but

in our practice we found it to be safe and effective our patients want it and it's become like a practice differentiator so if you're working in a practice that don't do radial you EFI's right now you should mention it because

if you're in a population where the other providers are only doing femoral then you will automatically get the patients that only want that so here's a patient that had a radial access you can see a catheter that is coming from the

aorta while you can't see that it's not up and over the bifurcation but maybe you do can see that and there's a catheter in the uterine artery with the characteristic

shape of the uterine artery and the characteristic curlicue vessels of of the fibroid and on the left you can see the Imogen for beforehand and the Imogen on the right of post embolization where there is stagnant flow in the main

uterine not main uterine artery in the horizontal portion of the uterine artery for greater than five cardiac beads and again there's there's no reason that you have to know that level of detail except that you're scrubbing in but if you're

in the audience you're looking at this you're like dr. Newsome I see an air bubble there as well then I'd say good because because I do see it too so you can see the preimage and you can see the post image for pre and post embolization

these these procedures can be quick these procedures are very very rewarding and and I love to do it

Sean I know you have not seen these slides at all you wanted I John can talk about this with his eyes closed so it's

not like there's anything but this is the data that was published from the Jade publishing jvi are from what Sean has written and it's just the current standards relating to what you should be expecting what we tell our patients that

they should expect for outcomes as it relates to uterine artery embolization again I'm not really here to try to point this I know you can google these you can get the information yourself but just to say that all of our procedures

have risk and we need to be clear with our patients about them now I believe that with all of these risks combined the benefits of doing uterine fibroid embolization for most patients is far greater than the risk and that's why I

really do have my practice so these are the benefits right shorter hospital stay and I would say more cost-effective and that is really debatable because gynecologists have become smarter and smarter now they're doing like same-day

hysterectomies if you have a vaginal hysterectomy then maybe a UFE is not as cost-effective because they don't have to do an MRI beforehand and they don't get an MRI afterwards and do all of that anyway and if you look at the long-term

cost of that then maybe having a hysterectomy in some patients could be that but we know for sure that patients are more satisfied when they get a embolization procedure than in my MEC to me not in the beginning run because the

procedure can be very painful that is not the procedure itself is painful but post embolization syndrome which could last anywhere from five to seven days can can be very painful again this is the comparative data that was published

by dr. Spees who is our gold medal winner this year understand a lot a lot of work in this space has allowed us to have this conversation with our gynecology partners but also with our patients as we talked about like when

can you return to work how long are you going to be all for you know am I going to need extra child care or whatever how long would I be in the hospital this information helps us to inform our patients about that then on average

you'll stay in the hospital around you know a day or so and most uterine artery embolization procedures are same-day procedures and interventional radiologists are doing these in freestanding centers as well as other

providers without any issues so we're almost down to the end we know that fibroid embolization is proven to be an effective and durable a procedure for controlling patient symptoms it's minimally invasive and it's outpatient

most patients can go back to some normal activity in one to two weeks it has a low complication rates and some patients mein neatest to surgery and should have surgery so in our practice we send around 1/3 of our patients or so to

surgery and the reason that that is that high is that patients are allowed to come and see myself or dr. de riz Nia from the street they do not have to be referred from their gynecologist and so they're just coming from the street then

you will be referring them to a gynecologist because of some of the things that may not make them a good candidate for embolization such as this

patient who did not come from the street so if you've been here for a few years

you've heard me talk about you know some of my friends this is also one of my other friends who has large fibroids but her fibroids were so big and they were not all very vascular and so I sent her to have surgery and she ended up having

a hysterectomy with removal of her cervix because of abnormal pap smears but her ovaries were left in place so our path forward after doing this procedure from 1995 a procedure that is not experimental a procedure that has

had a lot a lot of research done on it more research than most procedures that are done surgically or by interventional radiologists I'd say that it would require a partnership it is true that we can see patients on our own and we can

manage mostly everything but at the end of the day uterine artery embolization is still a palliative procedure because we don't know what causes fibroids to begin with and as long as the uterus is still there there's always a chance that

new fibroids will come back so in your practice and in mind I believe that a path forward is a sustaining program embolization program which is built on a relationship with the gynecologist that yes

I am as aggressive as any other interventionist that is out there but if this were my mom and that is my usual test for things I would say that where we would like to position ourselves is in the business of informing the

patient's as much as possible so that they can make an informed decision and that we're asking our gynecology partners to do the same is that if you're going to have a hysterectomy for a benign disease that you should demand

and we as a society and you as your sisters keeper should be asking for why am I not eligible for an embolization so si R is actually embarking on a major campaign in the next year or so it's called the vision to heal campaign and

it's all around providing education for this disease stage what I like to tell our patients and I'm almost finished here is when I talk to our gynecologist and to techs and nurses as well I said woody woody what should I expect right

that's what they want to know when I send my patient to you what should I expect and I say that what you should expect that Shawn and myself we're gonna tell the patient everything about fibroids we're gonna talk to them about

what the fibroids are the pathophysiology of it the same things I told you we're gonna tell them about the procedures that treat it we tell them about the options to do nothing we talk about all of the risk and the benefits

of the procedures especially of fibroid embolization and we start the workup to see if they're an appropriate candidate when they're an appropriate candidate we communicate with them and their OBGYN and then we schedule them for their

procedure in our practice there are a few of us who send our patients home on the same day and we let our patients know no one is kicking you out of the hospital if you can't go home that day then you'll get to stay but

most of our patients are able to go home that day and then we see our patients back in clinic somewhere between two and four months three months and six months and we own that patient follow-up their visits and after their year we have them

follow back up with their gynecologist and so that we're managing all of these sites and it comes back to that new again may not be so new for some of the people that have been doing clinical IR four years that shift that we own these

patients if you're a nurse in this room these are our patients these questions need to be answered by us in our department we do not believe that these patients should be calling their gynecologist for the answers to that

like what should I be doing right now should I be taking I haven't had a bowel movement and like that is something that we answer we're the ones that are given them the discharge instructions and we set them back up for their follow-up so

being your sister's keeper this is my last two slides uterine fibroid embolization is effective and it's durable we do know that we although 300 000 hysterectomies are done in the country Stella for benign disease of

fibroids we are making dent in that doing around 30 000 UFE procedures annually in the u.s. we know that the procedure is clinically successful for bleeding in bulk and there are several several clinical studies that have shown

that compared to surgery that you can have less recovery time and complication that outpatient service is going to now become the standard of what the population is asking for no one wants to be in the hospital unless they have to

do it and that we could return patients to a better quality of life faster going back to work and around a week with a low complication rate thank you for your time and for your attention and doctor and I would be available for questions


questions comments and accusations please hello this topic is very personal to me I've had it actually had a UFE so this is like one of my big things I work in the outpatient center as well as a

hospital where we perform you Effy's and frequently the radiologist will have me go in and talk to the patient it's from a personal perspective one of the issues which it may just have been from my situation was pain control post UFE

whether you normally tell your patients about pain control after the UFE someone say we are all struggling with this yeah oh it's not what's your question is going to be okay good I'm gonna get doctor Dora to answer Shawn the question

is what do you what do we do with this pain issue you know what are you doing for the home there at Emory there you know and a lot of practices we we don't rely on one magic bullet for pain control recently we've been doing

alternate procedures for two adjunctive procedures to help with pain control for example there are nerve blocks that you can do like a superior hypogastric nerve block there's there's Tylenol that can be given intravenously which is seems to

be a little more effective than by mouth there's there's a you know it and a lot of times it's it's a delicate balance right between pain post procedural pain because you can often get the pain well controlled with with narcotics opioid

with a pain pump but the problem is 12 hours later the patients is extremely nauseous and that's what keeps her in the hospital so it's a it's a balance between pain control and nausea you can you can hit the nausea

beforehand using a pain and scopolamine patch that that'll get built up in the system during the procedure and that kind of obviates the nausea issues like I said that the the nerve blocks the the tile and also there are some other

medicines that can can be used adjunctive leaf or for pain control in addition to to the to the opioids so the answer the question is there are multiple there multiple answers to the question there's not one magic bullet so

that helped it did one of the things that I tell the patients is that you know everyone is different and yet some people I've seen patients come out and they have no pain they're like perfect and then some come out and they are

writhing in the bed and they're hurting and they're rolling all around what and I always ask the acid docs are you telling them they could possibly have you know pain after the procedure because some have the expectation that

I'm going to be pain-free and that's not always the case so they have an unrealistic expectation that I'm gonna have the UFE but not have pain what I also tell them is that the pain it's kind of like an investment right and

this is easy for a guy to say that right but but it's it's an investment the worst part the worst pain you should be feeling is the first 12 12 hours or so every day I tell my patient you're gonna be getting better and better and better

with far as the pain as long as you is you follow our little cookbook of medicines that we give you on the way home and I want you to make sure that you fill these prescriptions on the way home or you have someone fill those

prescriptions for you before he or she picked you up in the hospital and lately we have been and I see that you're there as well lots of other little tricks that are out there right and again there are all

little tricks so ensure arterial lidocaine doctor there is near alluded to and if you're on si R Connect you may it may spill over on some of your chat rooms here people have been using like muscle relaxant like flexural or

robertson with some success but just know that we don't have any studies that tell us how that's supposed to do so when i have someone that is like writhing in pain i just use everything so i do it superior hypogastric nerve

vlog and i actually will do some intra-arterial lidocaine although not so much lately i have been using the muscle relaxant but i will warn you that i've had two patients with extreme anticholinergic effects where they are

now not able to pee from that so you know where we're doing that balance act I see that you're there can I take that question here first just so we're we're doing the same thing we're using the multimodal just throwing all these

things at people and we're trying the superior hypogastric blocks but we're collaborating with anesthesia to do that right now do you all do your own blocks or do you collaborate with anesthesia we do our own blocks okay it isn't it is

not that difficult I would tell you that but again it's kind of like you know you got to do if you start feeling better and then you're like we don't really need them we'll just do it on our own okay thank you again yes what's the

acceptable interval between UFE and for IBF oh that's a your question what is the interval between UFE and IVF so if you wanted to get pregnant yeah and can you have a you Fe and then have an IVF like how long would you have to wait

wait and tell you before you can have that the IBF it I guess it really depends on the age of the patient because we know that that the threshold for which patient tend to have that inability to conceive

is around 45 years old so you know it did below the you know below the age of 45 the risk of causing ovarian failure or or the inability to conceive is significantly less it's zero zero to three percent so I would say that you

know you probably want the effects of the fibroid embolization to two to take effect it takes around 12 months for these fibroids to shrink down to their most weight that they're gonna they're going to shrink down the most I wouldn't

say you need to wait 12 months to put our nine vitro fertilization there's no good there's no good literature out there I don't believe that's your next and so I would say just remember that if you came to my practice and you said you

wanted to get pregnant I will be sending you to talk to fertility specialists beforehand we do not perform embolization procedures as a way to become pregnant there's no data to support that but if you saw your

gynecologist and they said let's do this then I'm sure they'll be doing lots of adjunct things to figure out what would be an ideal time then to for you to have IVF and if I dove not having any data to inform me I would ask you to wait a year

and what will be the effect of those hormones that they gave you if for example a patient has existing fibroids what would be the effect of those hormones that IVF doctors prescribed their patients yeah so fibroids actually

can grow during pregnancy so I would say that most of those hormones are pro fertility hormones so I would expect that maybe you can see some of that effect as well yeah alright if you have any other questions you can grab me oh

you're I'm sorry go with it okay yes we we have time I don't want to keep anybody here for that so I have a two-fold question the first one is post-procedure can you use a diclofenac patch or a 12-hour pain

patch that is a an NSAID have you have any experience with that and your next question my second part of the question is there a patient profile or a psychological profile that tips you that the patient is not going to be able to

candidate because of their issues around pain so they're two separate but we have in success sending people home that first day so I'm looking to just make it better I haven't had experience with the Clos

phonetic patch it's in theory it seems ok you know these are all the these are they're all these are non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs so there are different potency levels for all of them they you know they range from very low

with with naproxen to to a little bit higher with toradol like that clover neck I think is somewhere in between so we found that at least I found that that q6 our our tour at all it tends to help a lot so with that said I I don't have

much experience with it with the patch in answer to your second question the only thing I can say is there there is a strong correlation between size of fibroids and the the amount of a post procedural pain and post embolization

syndrome so there really you know we often say we don't really care too much about the number of fibroids but the size of the fibroid is is is should be you know you should you should look at that on pre procedural imaging because

if it gets too big it may not be worth it for the patient because they may be in severe pain the more embolic you put into the blood supply's applying the the fibroid the the greater the pain post procedural pain

are there multiple other factors that would contribute to pain but that's that's one aspect you can you can look at post procedurally on imaging okay thank you very much yes ma'am hi what what kind of catheter do you use

to catheterize the fibroid artery when you pass by radio access yeah so over the last three years the companies have been really very good about that so there are a few things that I without endorsing one company or the other that

you need to make sure that the sheath that you're using is one of those radial sheets a company that makes a radio sheath you should not use a femoral sheath for radial access so no cheating where that's concern you may get away

with it once or twice but it will catch up to you and you need a catheter that is long enough to go from the radio to the to the groin so I'm looking for like a 120 or 125 centimeter kind of angled catheter whether it's hydrophilic the

whole way or just a hydrophilic tip or not at all you can you can choose which one in our practice most of us still tend to use a micro catheter through that catheter although if I'm using a for French and good glide calf and it

just flips into like a nice big juicy uterine artery then I may just go ahead and take that and do the embolization if the fellow is not scrubbed in as well so thanks a lot but they make they make many different kinds like that and more

of those are to come all right I'm you can please please please send us any other questions that you have thanks for your time and attention and enjoy the rest of the living

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