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Why ACE Inhibitors And Angiotension Receptor Blockers Should Be Stopped 24 Hours Before Vascular Surgery And What Is Optimal Antiplatelet Drug Therapy In Vascular Patients: Based On The EUCLID Trial
Why ACE Inhibitors And Angiotension Receptor Blockers Should Be Stopped 24 Hours Before Vascular Surgery And What Is Optimal Antiplatelet Drug Therapy In Vascular Patients: Based On The EUCLID Trial
antithromboticaspirincapriecardiovascularclopidogreldatadecreasedecreaseddoseeffectiveeventshypotensioninhibitorinhibitorsmonotherapypatientsperioperativeperipheralpotentpriorrandomizedtherapytrialvascularversus
Pharmacology- Antagonists & Additional Medications | Procedural Sedation: An Education Review
Pharmacology- Antagonists & Additional Medications | Procedural Sedation: An Education Review
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Outcome data | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
Outcome data | Uterine Artery Embolization The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
arterybleedcentimeterchapterdatadysfunctionalembolizationfertilityfibroidfibroidsMRImyomectomyNonepatientsretainsurgeryuterineuterus
The Last 5 Years in PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
The Last 5 Years in PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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Claudication vs CLI | CLI: Cause and Diagnosis
Claudication vs CLI | CLI: Cause and Diagnosis
amputationamputationsangiogramcancerscarolinachapterclaudicationcriticaldiseasefateischemialimbpalliationpatientsspecialiststabletexastreatworse
Summary of Carotid Interventions | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
Summary of Carotid Interventions | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
applycarotidchapterendovascularmedicalpatientsstentingtherapy
Radiation Protection | Gold Medal Lecture - Health of Technologists and Nurses and the Role of Compassion in an AI Focused World
Radiation Protection | Gold Medal Lecture - Health of Technologists and Nurses and the Role of Compassion in an AI Focused World
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PAD/CLI Diagnosis | CLI: Cause and Diagnosis
PAD/CLI Diagnosis | CLI: Cause and Diagnosis
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Q&A- Procedural Sedation | Procedural Sedation: An Education Review
Q&A- Procedural Sedation | Procedural Sedation: An Education Review
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Pharmacology- Opiods | Procedural Sedation: An Education Review
Pharmacology- Opiods | Procedural Sedation: An Education Review
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The status before we created a freestanding IR Center | Creating a Freestanding Interventional Radiology Center Challenges and Considerations
The status before we created a freestanding IR Center | Creating a Freestanding Interventional Radiology Center Challenges and Considerations
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Introduction to Establishing Periprocedural Screening Guidelines to reduce bleeding risk associated with Image-Guided Theraputic and Diagnostic Procedures | Risk Mitigation: Periprocedural Screening and Anticoagulation Guidelines to Reduce Interventional Radiology Bleeding Risks
Introduction to Establishing Periprocedural Screening Guidelines to reduce bleeding risk associated with Image-Guided Theraputic and Diagnostic Procedures | Risk Mitigation: Periprocedural Screening and Anticoagulation Guidelines to Reduce Interventional Radiology Bleeding Risks
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Post-intervention Non-invasive Tests | Determining the Endpoints of CLI Interventions
Post-intervention Non-invasive Tests | Determining the Endpoints of CLI Interventions
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Work-up for PAE | Nursing Management in Prostate Artery Embolization
Work-up for PAE | Nursing Management in Prostate Artery Embolization
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Where do we go from here for submassive PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
Where do we go from here for submassive PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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Clinical Workflow for PET/MRI | PET/MRI: A New Technique to Obtain High Quality Diagnostic Images for Oncology Patients
Clinical Workflow for PET/MRI | PET/MRI: A New Technique to Obtain High Quality Diagnostic Images for Oncology Patients
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Massive PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
Massive PE | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
adenosineangiobloodbradycardiacatheterchaptercontraindicateddevicedirectedhypotensioninpatientinterventionalistsmassivematsumotopatientsPenumbrasurgicalsystemictherapythrombolysisthrombolyticthrombolyticsventricle
Prospective CDT Trials | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
Prospective CDT Trials | Pulmonary Emoblism Interactive Lecture
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Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
Radioembolization | Interventional Oncology
bloodstreambremsstrahlungchapterdoseexistshccimrtlivermetastaticmultifocalneuroendocrineparticlepatientportalradiationsbrttumortumorsvascularvisualization
PAD and Diabetes | CLI: Cause and Diagnosis
PAD and Diabetes | CLI: Cause and Diagnosis
amputationsangiochapterclaudicationdiabetespatients
Vascular Disease | CLI: Cause and Diagnosis
Vascular Disease | CLI: Cause and Diagnosis
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Overview of PAD & CLI | CLI: Cause and Diagnosis
Overview of PAD & CLI | CLI: Cause and Diagnosis
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Treatment Options- Medical Management | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
Treatment Options- Medical Management | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
aggressiveantiplateletarteryaspirincarotidcarotid arterychapterembolizeendarterectomyincisionmanagementmedicalplaqueplavixstatinstatinsstentstentingtherapyultimately
Geniculate Artery Embolization - Frozen Shoulder | Geniculate Artery Embolization for Arthritic Pain Why How & Results
Geniculate Artery Embolization - Frozen Shoulder | Geniculate Artery Embolization for Arthritic Pain Why How & Results
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Practice Guidelines | Risk Mitigation: Periprocedural Screening and Anticoagulation Guidelines to Reduce Interventional Radiology Bleeding Risks
Practice Guidelines | Risk Mitigation: Periprocedural Screening and Anticoagulation Guidelines to Reduce Interventional Radiology Bleeding Risks
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MR Angiography | Determining the Endpoints of CLI Interventions
MR Angiography | Determining the Endpoints of CLI Interventions
angiogramanteriorartifactcalcifiedchapterclaudicationdeterminehemoglobiniliacimageinterventionmraMRIocclusionpatientsrecanalizationreperfusiontibialtissuevessels
Normal Bleeding | Risk Mitigation: Periprocedural Screening and Anticoagulation Guidelines to Reduce Interventional Radiology Bleeding Risks
Normal Bleeding | Risk Mitigation: Periprocedural Screening and Anticoagulation Guidelines to Reduce Interventional Radiology Bleeding Risks
activatedaspirinbindbindingbleedingcapturedcascadecellschaptercirculatingclotclottingcoagulationdoseendothelialfactorfactorsinhibitorsinjuryinterferinglabslearnedmechanismsmedicationmedicationsmoleculemonitoredneedleNoneoverviewpatientplateletplateletspracticereceptorreceptorsreleasereversiblethrombintrialstypicallyvitaminwarfarin
Malignant Biliary Strictures | Biliary Intervention
Malignant Biliary Strictures | Biliary Intervention
adventBARDcancerceliaccenterschaptercolorectalcookCordiscoveredcysticdataductextremelyfavorfavorablegoregrammalignantMeditechMemothermmetalmetastaticmultipleocclusiononcologyovergrowthpatientsperioperativeportalSmartStentstainsstentstentsstricturestumorunresectablewallstentZilver Stent
Treatment Options- Carotid Endarterectomy (CEA) | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
Treatment Options- Carotid Endarterectomy (CEA) | Carotid Interventions: CAE, CAS, & TCAR
anesthesiaanestheticarterycarotidcarotid arterychapterclotcomparingdistallyexternalexternal carotidflowincisioninternalinternal carotidissuelongitudinalloopsmedicalpatientpatientsplaqueproximalstenosisstenoticstentstentingstrokesurgerytherapyultimatelyvascularvesselwound
Successes of EndoAVF Creation | Pecutaneous Creation of Hemodialysis Fistulas
Successes of EndoAVF Creation | Pecutaneous Creation of Hemodialysis Fistulas
accessangioplastycathetercatheterschaptercharlestonDialysiselevationsFistulamonthspatientspercutaneousphysiciansproceduresurgeonsvascularveinweeks
The Set Up of IR in Saudi Arabia | An IR Perspective from Saudi Arabia
The Set Up of IR in Saudi Arabia | An IR Perspective from Saudi Arabia
admissionbattlecarecenterschapterhospitalinpatientinstitutioninterventionalinterventionalistinventorynursespainpatientsprivilegeprocedureradiologysaudisedationservicetertiarytextturfvascular
Transcript

- [Narrator] Thank you again. So, I'm going to start just by reminding everyone why we have such good data for the use of ACE inhibitors in patients with PAD. This basically comes from the HOPE trial, that in more than 9,000 patients with diabetes or vascular disease

randomization to Ramipril significantly decreased the compositive cardiovascular events. Now a significant proportion of these patients had Peripheral Vascular Disease, and when you look at this figure right here you see that there's really great benefit

whether you do or do not have Peripheral Vascular Disease. And this why the guidelines recommend ACE inhibitors in patients with PAD. So there's this idea, what do you do with patients

in the perioperative period? So there were a few studies that were done decades ago really suggesting that if you're on an ACE inhibitor during the perioperative period,

inpatients following bypass surgery you actually decrease acute kidney injury, and you decrease the endpoint of dialysis. And then in a very small randomized trial looking at Captopril in the perioperative period it showed that patients who received Captopril,

had improved renal plasma flow and GFR, compared to those treated with placebo. Now I presume, I was asked to give this talk because of a recent study that came out in anesthesiology which was a retrospective study so not a randomized study.

And showing that in patients who had their ACE inhibitor withheld, if you look at the top part of this figure, you see that they had a lower risk of cardiovascular events. But, if you look at the bottom part

of this figure, hypotension during the perioperative either intraoperatively or post operatively were much stronger. So personally I don't really know what to do with ACE inhibitors in the perioperative period.

I feel like there's a lot of equipoise here, but I do think that ACE inhibitors are really effective drug for patients with PAD. So my conclusion on this part is that ACE inhibitors reduce cardiovascular events

in patients with PAD. Intraoperative hypotension is associated with bad events. I think there's insufficient data to recommend stopping or continuing ACE inhibitors prior to non cardiac surgery

and I think we need a lot more data. Now talking about antithrombotic therapy in PAD. It's obviously complex but this is the summary of data in 39 trials, showing that antithrombotic therapy significantly reduced cardiovascular events.

Now, an analysis that we actually did several years ago now JAMA showed really that aspirin when looking at aspirin as the anti-platelet therapy was not markedly effective in PAD. In fact there was no significant difference for the reduction of cardiovascular events.

Now what do we know though the CAPRIE trial is an often forgotten trial and compared Clopidogrel monotherapy versus Aspirin monotherapy. And you can see that Clopidogrel beat out Aspirin by around nine percent.

So not a very demonstrative effect but when you look at who came into CAPRIE was patients either with a prior stroke, prior MI or prior PAD. And the data was all driven by PAD.

This is why Clopidogrel monotherapy is so important in this setting of PAD. So we designed the trial, the first really large multinational trial in PAD. This was close to 14,000 patients randomized

to Ticagrelor versus Clopidogrel. We thought if we used a more potent P2Y12 and that antagonist we can decrease cardiovascular events. And as you can see, to our very big surprise a hazard ratio of one point zero. So Clopidogrel was just as effective

as Ticagrelor even though Ticagrelor is a more potent drug. Now, very recently, this actually very big news. There was a trial called COMPASS that was published in the New England Journal

a few months ago that looked at stable ischemic heart disease and stable PAD. And what was published this week in the Lancet was the PAD subgroup. There were 7,500 patients with PAD.

Patients were randomized to either Rivaroxaban very low dose look at the dose. Two point five milligrams BID plus aspirin. Rivaroxaban low dose, so five milligrams BID alone or aspirin alone.

Mean follow up of 23 months. Now the trial was stopped early for efficacy of the combination group but in PAD what you see is that lowest event was in the combination group of Rivaroxaban plus aspirin.

Which was more effective for the reduction of cardiovascular events. But what's really important for the vascular community is that not only did it decrease cardiovascular events it actually decreased limb events too. So I think that this is a really big step

in the field of how you treat patients with lower extremity PAD. Now I was privileged to write the editorial for this. And it was really fun to go through all the antithrombotic therapy in PAD,

and just to remind you aspirin has not been very effective in PAD. Clopidogrel monotherapy is a very good choice. We also have Vorapaxar which is a PAR-1 antagonist. It's also FDA approved

but a lot of bleeding. Full dose anticoagulation has been studied in the WAVE trial, not been shown to be more effective. And I think aspirin puts very low dose Rivaroxaban is a very important mainstay.

Now that is not FDA approved yet, so you cannot use it as of yet but I think it will be approved. And I think the field is changing and I think it's a really exciting time for antithrombotic therapy

in PAD. Thank you.

interesting to grapefruit if a few YP three a-four inhibitor so I always remembered from nursing school they said

don't give grapefruit but I never really knew why but that's why it's just inhibiting the enzyme that's required for metabolism flumazenil is the reversal agent for benzodiazepines your initial dose is going to be 0.2

milligrams over 15 seconds what's important to note about flumazenil other than the seizures that I mentioned before is that the half-life is shorter for flumazenil than it is for versed so you can see a recitation effect which is

why you really need to monitor them for a good period of time after you're giving it and monitor to make sure they don't become reefa dated we're all familiar with narcan it's the reversal agents for opioid medications the

initial dose is 0.4 milligrams given over 30 seconds and you can repeat every one to three minutes to a maximum of ten milligrams other medications I think are useful to mention because you do see them and I are usually given by an

anesthesiologist propofol is a great drug onset of action is less than one minute but it's a potent drug so you can see significant hypotension and respiratory depression for us in New York it's not permitted for use by non

anesthesiologists Dex Mehta Tommy Dean is another interesting drug that's sort of getting into the kind of talk in the IR world so in the 2018 guidelines that I mentioned before they address sex medicine

and they said that it could be an alternative for versed in particular cases it's a highly selective centrally acting alpha-2 agonist with eggsy oolitic sedative and some analgesic effects

you usually administer it as a bolus over 10 minutes and then you start a continuous infusion however some of the very potent bradycardia that you can see can be mitigated by eliminating the bolus infusion or the bolus

administration rather and significant considerations with this are hypotension and bradycardia does anyone use pres iudex in their ir suite oh you do okay you guys give it cool we'll talk our our anesthesiologists are

a little territorial with it however the research does show that it does have a better safety profile in certain patients so it you know yeah so that's my experience with it but our particular anesthesiologist that oversees our

sedation committee and all of our sedation practices is concerned about us using in an ir because not all the practitioners have experience administering it there's not a reversal so if the patient became bradycardic you

would have to treat their bradycardia with fluids or atropine or other medications for your particular institution yeah right it yes yes always look at your state guidelines yes so the a what the a sa says about the

new data of the Emmy trial that came out last year our ten-year results saying

that after ten years after ten years women who wanted to retain their uterus they looked at them in ten years three-quarters of those women were still very very satisfied and also were still able to retain their uterus so ten-year

data came out randomizing people for uterine artery embolization versus hysterectomy of the women who chose you to an artery embolization ten years later they were still very happy so I tell my patients that this is what you

should expect that you will have symptomatic improvement in 12 months around 85 to 95 percent of the patients are pretty happy there is a entry intervention rate it is not zero and it can be higher than ten

depending on what kind of Imogen is seen ahead of time and that we know that dysfunctional uterine bleed tend to do a little bit better than bulk type symptoms and that's partly because of subjective nature of that so this is one

of the patients that I treated when I was in in Virginia and Riverside and she's a former miss Brazil and she came to see us with what she also called reversed cycles like she would bleed more than she would not and she was

wearing depends and it took everything to just coach her out of the car to come inside to do a consultation because she was so afraid that if she got out she would be sitting in a pool of blood and she had an MRI showing what looked like

a eleven point seven centimeter fibroid she had embolization and that was her six month follow-up MRI to the right which looks like a very impressive result they don't all look this way which is why I save this image something

that looks like a normal uterus now I for the persons that I told to hold your high horse here is the time okay so what happens if I want to have a baby because these are the things you remember we're being ambassadors for this procedure we

need to be having the answers for the things that are our friends and family members are going to be asking us so if you want to have a baby I would say that the data that informs us as to what to do with you is still very weak but the

only randomized prospective trial that we have out there says that you should actually have myomectomy and a Cochrane review was also done and it still says that there's very low level evidence suggesting that myomectomy may be

associated with better fertility outcomes as opposed to UAE but more research is needed and we still require more research so at the very least what I have to do and now you feel compelled to do is to send my patients to see

someone who is a fertility specialist in consultation so we can make this decision together so if your poor surgical candidate if you have the gazillion fibroids and if you've had surgery before a hostile

abdomen and the patient says you know what dr. Newsome there's nothing that you can tell me ever to say that I'm going to have surgery then we're going to be doing something else that is not surgery okay the other thing that your

individually into each one of these trials but I want to just point out to you how busy the last 5 years have been because it has really caused a

resurgence in our interest in both treating PE better and what the gaps are in our knowledge so I will point out in 2014 this was an inflection point for 10 years we didn't have a major trial actually more like 12 or 15 years we

hadn't had a major trial in in PE and pytho was a 1000 patient study that informed us about how systemic thrombolytics interact with sub massive P and I'll go through the data that same year

catheterized thrombolysis is everybody familiar with catheter at the thrombolysis for submasters before Pease that's totally off the grid okay good well this was the first time we had a randomized trial for catheter directly

thrombolysis with some with some massive PE only problem was it was 59 patients in Europe so and that's all we have as far as randomized trials for CDT this is my soapbox issue I'm sorry if you've heard me say this but that's that's my

big goal is to try to change that 2015 had some follow-on CDT trials 2017 this is when we started thinking about the long term effects of PE on patients both of these studies started to examine the issue where a year after the PE patients

are not normal if you did a for example this elope long term study almost 50% of patients had an abnormal cardio pulmonary function test one year later 2018 we started to experiment with the dosage that we're

administering during CDT that's the optimized trial and we saw the first trial completed for a mechanical device called the NRA flow trailer which I'll show you later in the talk as well so that was an exciting inflection point as

well the extract PE trial which uses the indigo cat 8 device to aspirate thrombus in pulmonary embolism we just completed enrollment this year the future is hopefully bright for generating more data the PERT consortium registry is up

and running and is hopefully going to help us aggregate data and make better decisions and then you have a couple more devices coming in and I'll tell you our efforts to try to really improve the knowledge base on what CDT for sub

massive P that's the P track trial that's the last bullet point there okay

I would like to convince you that

claudication is a different disease than critical limb ischemia even though it's the same on you're lying principle it's a different disease and here's why what is the fate of a Claude account so in five years

most Claude Akins are stable now I'm not saying they're living without pain I'm not trying to diminish their symptoms they may say look I can I can't live my life because I'm you know it hurts to walk from here to there and I'm sorry

but at the end of the day most of them will be stable they're not gonna dot they're not gonna get worse and they're not gonna have an amputation only a small percentage progress to critical of ischemia now let's look at the fate of a

critical limb ischemia patient in one year the majority are either dead or have another amputation have a bilateral heba have lost one of their legs and a lot of them have lost both their legs and so this is a serious mortal morbid

disease in fact if you look at it compared to some cancers critical of ischemia has a worse overall survival than a lot of common cancers and when I was trained my mentor used to say CLI critical mass Kimia is cancer by another

name we just have to treat it like palliation okay and that becomes important the way we treat things so when I treat a Claddagh Kent I am really looking toward their entire life you know is this treatment worth it I don't

want to make you worse with a critical limb ischemia patient I am all hands on deck we're gonna do everything we can and why every 20 seconds a lower limb is lost to diabetes patients with rest pain or gangrene really need to see a

specialist I've asked your specialist not any vascular specialist a basket specialist who knows how to do critical an ischemia okay so I'm from North Carolina or I live in North Carolina now cardiovascular disease rates were you

know obviously toward toward the south hi here's the amputation rates we are right there in the amputation belt if you look at the dark blue they sort of along the south and into Texas and we're all in the amputation belt right now

because we're all in Texas and so we do way way too many amputations sadly over 50% of patients who have an amputation never had an angiogram so in other words that doesn't mean someone tried and failed which is at least respectable you

know at least tried it's we never looked we never even bothered now there's a lot of amputations that should if someone's septic and dying or sure or limbs unsalvageable of course yeah you don't just take the like I understand

that but that's not 50% that is a lot of patients who no-one's even bother looking so how do we make the diagnosis

I think it's important to understand what options we have in in treating patients with carotid disease or those

in our practice medical therapy is a mainstay so all these patients regardless that they get t'car carotid stenting or otherwise need to get the best medical therapy there is a role though for each of these surgical

endovascular or a hybrid such as t'car and hopefully you have a better understanding of that option and ultimately if you understand the different techniques then we can apply the best ones depending on the patient's

anatomy or current clinical scenario and and apply that to that patient thank you [Applause]

about engagement so thoughts like those

two thoughts have a genealogy like a family 3 and you can trace the genealogy of an idea back to the original inventor and then who they thought and who they thought and you can follow it through tips why 90 peripheral vascular

intervention drug eluting balloons mathematics architecture and this will be the family tree for vertebroplasty but it's interesting to think that this ultimately despite AI boils down to humans telling other humans and helping

other humans to do something and despite the world of our internet we still need to do this this is a great example so this crazy physicist Schrodinger what it can show dangerous cat wrote this pamphlet saying that there was a

relationship between the wave form of physics and human DNA and this is a letter from 1954 from Crick and Watson to him saying we read your pamphlet from 1939 and it influenced us into this into their structure the figuring out the

structure of DNA so ideas have trickle-down effects like the tree falling in the forest or the wing of the butterfly that we underestimate okay now I'm going to talk about something really important I'm worried about the amount

of radiation we get I began this kind of work about six years ago this stuff doesn't happen overnight it's hours and hours of like rotating planets in your head and trying to make them into something that is real and tangible

so radiation shielding most of you probably wear your little badge but maybe not all the time I don't actually know where mine is currently and we've become so inured to the risks radiation that we underestimate the

damage it's doing to us and we don't all have an equal ability to repair radiation damage to our DNA some of us have mutations that prevent us repairing DNA damage we know the names of some of those B or C a B or one and two and

breast cancer ATM mutation there are known mutations that put a small at risk if patients are larger we get more scatter scatter is the main thing that we experience there are papers like this showing that double-stranded DNA breaks

occur in physicians after treating patients and that some physicians get more breaks than others lead is really really important in preventing this table side lead decreases the amount of dose skirts that

we get enormous ly using all the barriers is rare we make compromises we get rid of them the amount of lead that we wear varies from person to person the age of the lead that we wear varies light weight protective garments are a

problem we did some studies in a Mayo Clinic on this and only three out of 19 passed so you're trading off your protection for the weight of your lead led toxicity LED is one of the most toxic agents on the planet

60% of lead aprons have LED on the outside so something I'm gonna work on when I go home is lead levels in my staff this is a funny photograph a bunch of us figuring out that we had no hair on the outside of our left leg

this is radiation injury to us we know from the very beginning of radiology that people radiologists died right they sat in the field they lost fingers they lost nose noses etc and and they did badly so I had all the stuff in my head

and I came home and my mother-in-law who I like don't tell her came home from our Cancer Hospital Princess Margaret with the list of medications not to take prior to her radiation therapy I said Karen why did

they not want me to take these these are all my vitamins and I looked at them they're all antioxidants so I thought okay antioxidants if they prevent DNA damage from huge dose radiation could work for us and for our patients so go

outside to Ronan my son and the dog Cora and we went for a walk and Cora met another dog and that got you know playing together and the guy who owned the other dogs said to me what do you do and I said well actually I'm a doctor

I'm thinking about my research projects what's your research project of the wasana antioxidants to prevent DNA damage from radiation exposure and he said I make antioxidants and so this is like that letter you know this happens

and there's a certain state where it happens more frequently it's a weird thing like I'm a scientist but I believe that so I used his antioxidants and bunch of experiments on myself I drew my blood radiated it then took the

antioxidants may be slightly hypertensive cuz there was a lot of uric acid in it but I felt great and then I found I could decrease the number of DNA breaks I got this is the man Ivan D'Souza

and so I thought this could be good this certainly works I can decrease DNA breaks with antioxidants I went out as visiting professor to Dalhousie they grow a lot of apples out there red Canadian apples so why they make all the

apple pie I like pie and so I told them what I was working on they said we have extract from Apple skins that is a really powerful antioxidant so we added it to our formulation we license three patents I formed a company named after

the dog Cora Cora med and I studied the nature of DNA damage from x-ray exposure basically what happens is x-rays impinge upon water molecules which then break releasing free radicals which then bind to DNA and then

oxygen binds to that break site so you get an oxidative injury to your DNA antioxidants bind the oxygen and the free radicals and prevent that we are

of critical of ischemia well a lot of times it starts in our office with a physical examination so we do a risk

factor assessment and this is what happens before they get on our table with with everyone in this room and us seeing the patient assessment of intermittent claudication and it can be subtle many patients don't come in and

say oh yeah I have pain when I walk for a short time and then it I rest and it goes away a lot of times it's yeah you know my leg gives out or now it doesn't hurt it's kind of this weird feeling when I walk and it these atypical

symptoms and then obviously if they have a wound you have to a wound evaluation on physical examination things we're looking for feeling a pulse you'll be surprised how many primary care providers never feel a pulse and if we

say if you feel a pulse you may save a life because you may be the first one to say hey this patient doesn't have a pulse maybe they have got peripheral artery disease and if they prefer order these maybe have coronary artery disease

and maybe they should we start on aspirin or statin and save them from a heart attack and stroke and so you really can save a life abnormal capillary refill so in other words you've got such bad blood flow

that if you smush on their foot it takes a long time for that blood to come back because they have such poor perfusion there's something a Peugeot stess TWEN that if you lift their leg gravity alone pushes their blood isn't it overcomes

the force of blood and so there are foot becomes power becomes losing some color and then when you put them down it dilates and you get sort of this ruborous red color so that's a burger sign I just had a good example in clinic

about a week or two ago so what do we ask for patients do of any pain or discomfort in the leg thigh or butt with walking your exercise I will sell you tell you I often don't use the word pain because everyone thinks pain is

different so so some people say well it's not paying it's a key lake ease pain to me I'm a guy everything's pain to me right low low threshold but discomfort is a good way of asking it foot or toe pain

that disturbs your sleep do you have any skin ulcers or sores on your ankles feet or toes I think it's very important to know what kind of patient you're talking to in terms of Education level or in terms of just language so some patients

don't know what it all sir is and they use the term sore some people don't know what a sore is they used term wound and so just sort of you ask things different ways I think is really important when we all talk to our patients and again a lot

of classic history will miss a large majority of PAE because patients don't read the textbook the one thing I'll say is I hear this all the time well the patient had pulses and so they don't have P ad that is hashtag false and the

reason is pulse exam is insensitive so in other words even if you feel pulses they can still have peripheral artery disease okay now if you don't feel pulses they certainly have peripheral artery disease or you're just terrible

at it PID classification the way we talk about patients with PA D we use a classification scale called Rutherford it may come up so in other words patient who has PA D but asymptomatic is

Rutherford zero a patient who has got major tissue loss and is basically 1 for amputation is Rutherford 6 and then everything in between is sort of a gradation we cut off 3 to 4 so 3 is claudication pain only 4 is critical in

ischemia rest pain alright so rather for classification when we talk about wounds you may see this you don't need to go in details but there's a Wi-Fi classification that sort of Germans how bad is the ulcer and how likely are you

to to lose your leg it's sort of a prognostic I will remind you that in medicine there's differentials for everything in other words the patient comes to you with pain or you talk to your friend or whatever with pain

there's a lot of things in cause pain it could be back pain arthritis infection DVT so there's things we have to think about when I was in medical school I sort of loved this my OB GaN professor said when he sees a patient the first

thing he does is say what do I think this patient have if this were a man because you get so pigeon-holed in your specialty every patient we see as well must be vas here must be vas care but you've got to take a step back and say

okay well am I missing something maybe it's arthritis may something else so don't get pigeonholed by your own prejudices which is a good life lesson in general there's also a differential for wounds so obviously

when we see a wound we could have arterial arterial tends to be sort of the toes and distal foot it can be severe pain if you see an ulcer around the ankle that tends to be more venous so vein related which again we

can treat and then a common cause is neuropathic so if you see I'm sort of at the pressure points where people walk a lot of times patient diabetes will step on something and where you and I would be like oh man that hurts

I better oh my god I have a wound there I better check that out they'll never know because they don't feel their feet and so they could have this monster ulcer and finally someone inspects their feet and says you know you have like a

golf ball sized hole in your foot and that's the first time they ever notice it so how do we test ever for peripheral artery disease well a lot of it is non-invasive now we do a B is a b is is a measure of blood pressure in the foot

or leg we can do some ultrasound to actually look at the artery and obviously we can do CT and MRI when we look at ultrasound you may look at this every once a while this is a normal ultrasound Doppler waveform where we've

got good blood flow up down and back three now the reason that's important is that correlates the sounds so if you listen to a artery i'ma do my best Doppler impression out okay a normal artery goes once you start getting

peripheral artery disease you lose that triphasic waveform it becomes biphasic when you get severe peripheral artery disease you lose that biphasic waveform it becomes monophasic and when you have nothing it becomes

okay so here's want to be alert to that so ankle brachial index is important and it's helpful again some patients who have calcific us a-- fication it's not helpful for I will tell you a B eyes alone actually not only do they predict

PA D they predict death that's how important PA D is link to mortality CT and MRI is very useful you can see here we can see a good anatomic description of the arteries unfortunately patients with calcium

sometimes we can't see as well because the calcium is so bright on CT scan that it obscures the lumen so we have other problems in patients with diabetes and heavy calcification and a lot of those patients just need to go to angiogram

and as you know my techs and nurses know sometimes rarely but sometimes we do an angiogram and it's normal and we say or there's mild disease we say okay perfect we've taken that off the table we need to move on when some of these

non-invasive testings aren't as clear so alright so in summary critical of ischemia is a morbid disease and can be the first presentation of PA d clinical suspicion and accurate diagnosis is essential for early diagnosis and

treatment and a multidisciplinary team that includes vascular venture loss who know critical limb ischemia not just the SFA and iliac artery jockeys and wound care specialists do decrease amputation rates I like this quote it's not mine

but I'm going to steal it with impunity amputation is not a treatment option it is a treatment failure okay so we have to keep that in mind I appreciate everyone's attention because we can save questions to the end or you do it now if

there's pressing I think we may need new batteries or my thumb's weak which is also a possibility any questions

are there any questions yeah yes that's a really good sure so the question was do you have any rules or guidelines in my institution about how long the procedure can be before you start

talking about anesthesia versus sedation is that right and positioning prone supine we did come up with a guideline with within our department we looked at a little bit of research but honestly was more expert opinion just best

practice and experience I in in general I would say if the procedure is 3 plus hours the patient should know they're going to be on the table not asleep for three plus hours and talk to them about what that means and if they're ok with

that I just think again that comes into setting realistic expectations that's one of the reasons actually that we're very interested in using Dex med otama Dean because that's going to be a better

drug for those longer procedures first was giving functional and versed for four hours it's just not it's not appropriate but you know and some people would say we'll just get an anesthesiologist them but a lot of these

patients are really thick so in our institution anesthesia is just really super regulated and they require all of these clearances for their involvement no matter what they're giving sometimes they'll require all these clearances and

they give exactly what we were going to give so you know it's it's really a juggling act I would say in our department we really just make sure the patient knows what the expectation is and then we'll usually say to the

provider to if if something goes like if anything looks a little concerning during the case we're stopping and they have to be ok with that and they are they really are but that took a lot of work to get everybody on board with that

type of communication yeah we don't know so they I know I think Sloane is anyone here from Sloane no I think Sloane has with dedicated anesthesiologists they work really closely with them and it's easier for

them to get cases scheduled they will give us they will assign us an anesthesiologist for the day but if we don't have any anesthesia cases they get reassigned somewhere in the o.r and it's a different analysis every time it tends

to be the same group some are stricter than others some will have a patient say I really want anesthesia and we can call up the provider and there they say no problem let me do a quick chart review whereas the next day the provider goes

no absolutely not send them for clearances that's a little tricky yeah right so what I showed you is from the american society of anesthesiology i am not affiliated with them at all i just think they bide non anesthesiologist

sedation so i rely heavily on what they say and they recommend waiting till peak effects so i would look at the pharmacokinetics so for versed it's 3 to 5 minutes so i would wait at least 3 minutes before your readmit a stirring I

think a good example with that is when diazepam with the sedative of choice the on the peak effect for diazepam is 1 minute so when midazolam came onto the market there were a lot of adverse outcomes

with patients because providers administering it weren't familiar with the pharmacokinetics and assumed that the peak effect for versed was the same for diazepam so in theory you could give a patient in 5 minutes 5 milligrams of

versed so by the time that fully hits them they could be in a negative 5 on your raft scale so you know just look at those pharmacokinetics look at that peak effect and I would use that to drive your dosing scheme Atlee that's what I

do and I think since we've done that we've seen better meet info cities and better safety outcomes yes okay yeah we don't do that we do one thing with uterine fibroid embolization swear they'll do a superior mesenteric block

but otherwise we don't do any other type of regional blocks but I have read about that I think that's really are the IR providers giving the block okay right I've seen two with uterine fibroid embolization we'll do an epidural in

advance some I think some institutions or some literature exists about that it's interesting it would be interesting if the IR providers could actually give it though I'm not sure if that's kosher in the anesthesia world but they're

certainly qualified to do it they they do already kind of do it really but so I mean that's certainly something interesting and if you have a provider that is comfortable taking that on and their institution I think it's worth

looking at because anything that's sort of I think mixes things up and and provides a different Avenue especially for high-risk patients is worth looking into definitely yes I believe it yeah

mm-hm right so I'll just repeat what she said so just jumping on the talk about blocks so in her institution they the providers to administer blocks and I think you said

coleus estas Tamizh and PTC's and biliary dream placements they'll use that and it will decrease the amount of sedation that's required sedation being versed and fentanyl that's required during the case which like yes like you

said is really great for patients who are already on opioids previously and habit aller ins yes [Music] something right so we again he left same provider though had a patient on Groupon

or Fein and it was our first experience within about a year ago and it was terrible and she did not have realistic expectations going in of how sedated she would be and she was very very unhappy

afterwards so we talked a lot about that and in that guideline I had mentioned that we made about when we involve anesthesia and when we don't there's a caveat about that that says that if a patient is on

methadone or buprenorphine that a discussion needs to take place making them aware that they will probably not feel very sedated but we will try our best and if they're not comfortable with that we reschedule the procedure with

anesthesia but they have to know going into it that they they may not feel completely sedated and we just keep that open and honest communication but we haven't really come up with a scheme of what's best we did actually try with her

we had her come in one day having taken her buprenorphine the day of the procedure and she seemed okay with that and then we tried having her go off of it so that the receptors wouldn't be blocked she was not happy with that

experience so that's really when a person like that probably would do great with propofol but we can't give propofol so you know if the and if the patient tells us no then we just reschedule with the anesthesia

right - hmm right right right you could at least if they're if they're on an opioid uh if they're on people nor Fein then in theory they should respond to the verse said you could go heavier hand it on the

versed just to get them sedated but they will probably still feel pain but it they hopefully won't remember it that's true I you know with the Richmond agitation sedation scale that's not going to fit every patient that's a

really good point I gave a patient seven of versed during an adrenal vein sampling and she was just talking my ear off I got I fed are you okay you know do you need me to give you anything else no no I'm good I'm good and then I wheeled

her out we got her in the recovery area and she goes sit over I said yeah she said wow I don't I don't remember anything the power of her said that that was like a true and music effect I hadn't seen that so strongly in a

patient before but if you if I had done you know I was documenting that she was a zero it looked like I wasn't doing much for her but then I was putting comments you know patient comfortable denying needing any more sedation so

won't fit every patient so it is good to look at that but yeah as far as the buprenorphine I mean it's it's it's tough yeah if they have an addiction specialist I would say talk to them and they might be

able to come up with a scheme that works for them and if there's a lot of pain expected afterwards those patients are gonna have to be on parenteral opioid therapy they'll probably have to stay you know if you're in a hospital they

would have to stay overnight so those are all things you have to consider yeah yes hmm yeah I'm like it so Adam and Alexa are nurse practitioners that we work with and I'm looking at Adam because

this is actually was a very hot topic for us in the last six months so we actually cheat we met with our sedation committee that's run by that in a physiologist who's blocking us from using pres of X and discuss with him

that in the protocol that guides our practice it's said that you did the timeout and then gave sedation but Ari anesthesiologists don't do that right so they intubate the patient and everything and then and they and then the provider

comes in and does the timeout right before the puncture or incision so we talked about to him about how well if we're gonna do the latency to peak effect it's not enough time right so we do now bring the patient in and start

sedation right away our orders are put in in advance I know some by the attending or the Li P so we have a PRN dose and with an a certain number of occurrences and a titrate to a certain Ross scale

yes yeah so and that our anesthesiologist mentions that our providers are present but it's it's a certain use of the language I think it might be like direct observation or immediately available and our providers

are immediately available it's up to your hospital so our profit our providers aren't like down the street on their way in to work with coffee and street clothes and we're sedating they're they're just down the hall maybe

or the way our department looks is we have a control area and it's like the you know the Central Station and you can see all of the rooms so they might be in the Central Station but just haven't gone in to do the time out yet that

being said I always talk to them before I bring the patient in and say what's the goal Rath and I address any concerns that I have and I think people think I'm a little kooky when I do that for every case but it I think it works really well

and I think the providers really like it so we just already start from the Gecko our line of communication I tell them the patient seems really anxious this is my plan what do you think agree disagree yes the procedural if does the procedure

list or the Lak but I've sedated the patient so the patient if you look at what Jayco describes in the universal protocol it's ideal if they can participate in the timeout however not required because then when they do the

timeout they're right there stabbing them with lidocaine so I like to you know I mean I would argue that by starting I would argue about that by starting at the sedation earlier and getting the patient into a comfortable

state you're more safe because you're doing the dosing appropriately according to the a sa yeah correct right right right

okay I think it's important to say though it's not about getting around Joint Commission this is what Joint Commission says you may feel uncomfortable with it and that's okay

but it is what our accrediting body says is okay we're also not intimating the patient and paralyzing them like an Asst the anesthesiologist is now having said that it's not like we walk the patient in and we go oh I think you're mr. Jones

we throw you on the table there is an initial timeout that's done with the nurse and the technologist and the other people in the room shaking his head yes as so the acceptable amount of time after reversal

yes so if it happens if it happens mid procedure you need to it's I believe the language the a sa uses that you have to have a discussion amongst the care team about whether or not you're going to proceed if it happens after the

procedure in the recovery area or it happens mid procedure and you abort then it has to be at least two hours before you discharge that patient or move them back to their unit where they came from because of that recitation effect and

because you can have really adverse effects from sedation like flumazenil can cause serious delirium I had a patient like that one time it was it was awful and it can cause serious cardiac arrhythmia so at least two hours if you

continue with the procedure I would just make sure everyone knows that you have to be really careful with recitation effects and and all of the adverse effects that you'd be looking at yes I think one more question I'm sorry

with hyperkalemia I have come across I want to say it was in perioperative guidelines when I was looking at the labs that we do cuz we do a lot of unnecessary labs in our department you guys might - I feel like we just really

overdo it I believe the perioperative recommendations are to check a serum potassium if the patient has a reason to have hyperkalemia however right if their hyperkalemic and

they develop a cardiac arrhythmia you know could hypoxia also precipitate that cardiac arrhythmia the results from the hyperkalemia maybe I just went in I wouldn't take an ounce

I would I would consider hyperkalemia severe hyperkalemia and unstable patient because that patient could go into a fatal arrhythmia so I would correct that before you bring them into an elective Percy what's often an elective procedure

so if you're doing a fistula gram you know right five point yeah why are we will go up to five point eight we personally will go up to five point eight because a lot of times they're hyperkalemic

because they're fish too less clothes now and we need to open it right so just again it I don't think there's ever going to be any hard and fast data that you see it's all about making sure everyone knows this patient has a serum

potassium of five point eight we're going to be really closely watching the ECG monitoring yeah thank you everyone thank you so much [Applause]

in providing the analgesic component of procedural sedation they activate opioid receptors in the brain and spinal cord to inhibit transmission of painful impulses fentanyl is the main drug that

we use the onset of action is seen in one to three minutes and the peak effect is seen in five to fifteen the half-life is two to four hours and we typically give a dose of 50 mics to start again it's metabolized by that cyp3a4 what's

especially I think important to note is that it gets metabolized to inactive metabolites so I had a situation when I was a newer nurse I was working in the ICU I had an elderly patient it was my third night with her and she was

admitted for acute kidney injury related to her urosepsis so she really wasn't making a lot of urine and she lives in an incredible amount of pain she has been screaming for two nights and I finally said enough I went to the

resident so we have to give her something so she said let's give her some morphine you want to give her one milligram she's elderly can we at least start with 0.5 and see how she does with that she said that's fine I gave her the

point for five of morphine and she went to sleep maybe thirty minutes later and she looked really comfortable now we didn't we don't or at that time we didn't use capnography for non intubated patience in my ICU I was in but she did

have a pulse oximeter on and all the other monitoring I didn't really disturb her throughout the night I knew she hadn't slept in two days so I would go in and check on her and turn her and see how she was doing and she seemed really

asleep but comfortable I go and do my bedside handover with the day nurse in the morning we go to wake her up and she's not waking up and we do a really good sternal rub and all your nail bed pressure and all those tricks

and nothing's working and she's she's out so we called in the attending in the resident and pees and they ended up doing an arterial blood bath and her paco2 was 75 yes so they did give her narcan and thankfully it worked and she

didn't require intubation the nurse practitioner pulled me over afterwards when things had settled down she said you know I want to talk to you about what happened why did you decide to give her morphine and start a fentanyl and I

said well you know morphine of aura fentanyl rather is a hundred times more potent than morphine and I thought I was doing the right thing because she's an elderly patient I was worried about her cuz she's frail but then she explained

to me that morphine gets metabolized to several different metabolites and one of them is actually 2 to 3 times more potent than the original morphine that you're giving in the IV and because she was in acute renal failure she wasn't

excreting the drug so she had this two to three times more potent drug just circulating around her system all night which led to her respiratory depression and her hypercarbia with fentanyl you have metabolism to inactive metabolites

so it's considered to be more safe for patients who are in renal failure that was a real big aha moment for me because there's a lot that you have to know when you're a nurse especially if you're working in a critical care area and you

hope that you're the providers you're working with are thinking of these things but they're also very stressed so it's all of our responsibilities to know the way that these drugs work and I think it's great in IR because we we

don't give it a lot of medications we give a fair amount but they're pretty much the same medications over and over so we do have an opportunity to really take a better deep dive and really the mechanism of action and their

pharmacokinetic properties considerations you do want to consider renal e impaired patients because it can alter the kinetics meaning that there's decrease protein binding as I said for versed but there is they are slightly

less protein bound than versed and there is a black box warning for cyp3a4 inhibitors specifically for fentanyl just something to keep in mind when you're giving it though I think this is really more I'm talking about patients

that are going home with a fentanyl patch you want to make sure they're not taking inhibitors at home kind of

my co-presenter and colleague anne mccaffrey couldn't be here this morning she recently had a baby and was not cleared to fly just yet so I will be presenting by myself wish you were here so where we began we were seeing an average of 20 to 25 outpatient

outpatients a day between multiple services vascular I our neuro interventional neuroradiology our procedures were often delayed due to lack of recovery space to move post procedure patients into several 6-hour

recoveries mostly our angiograms and our kidney biopsies would take about half to two-thirds of the available recovery space for most of the day so as you can see we did not have a lot of space for the amount of procedures that we were

performing room utilization was at a high of a hundred and twelve percent q four that's because we were doing bedside procedures on impatience as well and we were performing procedures in our recovery room too that's what we look

like so our service rapidly expanded over the past five years and created multiple problems long scheduling delays led to a delay in diagnosis and treatment for patients which led to unhappy patients and unhappy refers

located in a major metropolitan area with many major academic medical centers led to a lot of competition and we didn't want our internal referrers to send their patients to other centers prolonged hospital stays for our

inpatients led to delayed discharge until vascular access was obtained or feeding tubes were inserted and then for staffing our staff our staff was unhappy with the frequently man √łt and leadership was unhappy with the

increased staffing costs so for our

I'm Nikki Jensen Nicole is what my mother calls me but that's alright thank you all for joining us today I am the clinical resource nas I work in a clinical nurse specialist position I graduated in May so I'll finally be called the clinical nurse specialist

after I passed my boards in nonvascular radiology so at Mayo Clinic Rochester we are kind of split up between I are in our IR practice where we have non vascular procedural Center CT MRI ultrasound guided procedures we'll go

over a list of our standard perform procedures as well as our neuro interventional and vascular interventional practice so Kerri and I work in the non vascular so we do not do any neuro interventional or vascular

vascular interventional procedures so these guidelines are going to focus on your LR CT or ultrasound guided procedures how many of you went to the combined session this morning great this is going to be an overview because what

we saw presented there really reiterates what we are have brought into our practice but then we're also going to share how we created nursing guidelines and how we rolled that into our practice this is Carrie Carrie is a staff nurse

in our department I worked as a staff nurse for seven years prior to this position I've been in this position now for four years and really enjoy it I do want to give a little shout-out to Carrie and I presented or sorry we

published an article in the June 28th volume 37 issue - that really coincides with our presentation today so I would encourage you to read that publication and then you'll get additional information on how we did this yes all

right we have nothing to disclose unfortunately or fortunately right so the purpose of this presentation is to help you all understand the importance of creating reviewing the literature

understanding your for one your coagulation casket as well cascade as well as anticoagulants that are out there or new up-and-coming medications and understanding that yes it's very important to establish and create these

guidelines so that within your practice you don't have differing radiologists that have differing opinions if you're working with doctor so-and-so today you need to worry about these labs if you're working with you know dr. Johnson

tomorrow he doesn't care about the labs we did this to help standardize that to help reduce the amount of questions our nurses have how many times we're interrupting our radiologists but then also we need to take into consideration

the importance of the patients and their different disease processes and we'll be going over that too so it's nice to have established guidelines but then also we need to take into consideration why patients are on certain medications this

here is our list of objectives I'm not going to read them for you you can all read them and we've provided you all with handouts too but really we want to just help kind of explain mechanism of actions and different medications and

how we established our guidelines this here is where Kari and I come from full disclosure we do have snow on the ground so these pictures were not taken before we came we are really enjoying this nice warm weather but for those of you who

are not familiar with the history of Mayo Clinic in Rochester who we have a hundred and fifty plus year tradition of implementing evidence-based care to assure the needs of our patient come first we are divided up into one

downtown campus but we have three different main areas so we have our st. Mary's Hospital this is where Kerry is based out of this is this houses most all of our ICUs as well as most all of our inpatients so we do a lot of

inpatients but we also see outpatients in this hospital Rochester Methodist Hospital this is where our he mock patients typically are we do have one ICU within Hospital as well but then right here my

office is right there this is our Mayo downtown campus so this is where most of our patients come for outside procedures or outpatient diagnostic imaging exams this here is the group that I'm part of the clinical nursing specialist group

within our clinical nursing specialist group there are 77 of us there are five like myself clinical resources as we have not graduated as of yet I'm right there in the middle w

that work in over 70 ambulatory areas in 58 inpatient areas we also support some areas in our Arizona and Florida campuses and then we have Mayo Clinic Health System hospitals that are scattered throughout Iowa

Wisconsin in Minnesota as well I am the only one in radiology across all of our

other things that we look at tools that we use include the ankle and toe brachial indices those are these at blood pressure comparisons between the

arm and the foot or the toe the great first toe we use segmental pressures your blood pressures and multiple levels down the leg pulse volume recordings which look very similar with cuffs down the leg but they're looking at the size

of the leg per heartbeat PPG's which is basically pulse ox for the four individual toes TCP o2 which is very important and not used enough which is looking at the oxygen tension within the tissue itself and skin perfusion

pressure so ABI as I mentioned as a comparison the arm and the leg pressures and people with CLI often have an ABI less than point for the pressures gonna be less than 50 millimeters in mercury so the ABI may be falsely elevated

people who have chronic kidney disease because the vessels get calcified and they don't compress very well when you blow up the cuff increasing it above 0.45 after if it's been below that is somewhat predictive of wound healing but

not that helpful at the time of an angiogram so as the higher the two pressures is often used to calculate this because you have two pressures and each leg right you have it dorsalis pedis pressure that

you can get and you have posterior tibial so the way that you do in ABI is you look at the higher of the two and compare that to your arm pressure so just remember if your ulcer is being supplied by the vessel that's got the

lower pressure than your ABI is could be normal you could still have CLI so again not always that helpful the toe brachial indices is a it is a little bit more helpful people with diabetes only because the toe arteries tend not to

calcify as quickly in these patients less than 0.75 is considered abnormal and increasing it up into the normal range of course is predictive of fluid wound healing so limitations these only really look at

the macro vascular so that you know the named ves blood vessel patency they don't really tell you what's going on at the level of the capillaries and a recent meta-analysis suggests that neither of them can be consistently

relied upon as okay it came to a normal range we're definitely not gonna get an amputation now so I think I really do have to press both buttons each time so the systolic pressure measurements for segmental pressures you basically look

at the pressures on multiple levels of down the leg a drop of greater than 20 is considered significant and then severity of a number of lesions can't be totally determined from that again this only really tells you what's going on in

the named vessels pulse volume recordings these are cuffs that are looking at the volume of the limb with each pulse it's helpful and patients would they have non compressible vessels because the leg actually has a it's a

microscopic but detectable increase in size with each pulse and so this is better in people who have non compressible vessels and changes in PVR's often will actually precede angiographic findings CTA findings and

recent publication from the s from the society vascular surgery however calls into question their usefulness compared to a bi alone the good pictures are coming soon so this is an example what you may see in

the chart for some of your patients with critical limb ischemia so this is actually segmental pressure and pulse while recording from where I trained in Miami and basically what we're looking at is a combination of things on one of

these sheets so the pressures are listed in the middle but each sheet is going to be different depending on your institution so you're looking for a big drop and pressure from one level to the next so if you look for example in the

middle at the right leg you know there's a 176 in the arm and then there's a 126 in the high thigh normally because of gravity you should have an increase in flow at that level so that's already I have normal on the right side and then

progressing down any grade any drop greater than 20 suggested that something may be abnormal at that level PPG's these are really good for detecting what may be going on at the foot or lower levels so you transmit an infrared

signal through the toe and then try to see how much of that light comes out the other side essentially and so the amount of it it's depending on how much bloods in the digit and the flow the flow of the blood vessels so if you had a

previously flatlined signal then restoring a pulsatile signal is considered a and it you know an approved marker of tissue perfusion so this is essential in patients who have distal ulcers particularly in the level of the

toe because restoring you see you've probably all seen those of you that work in labs that do a lot of peripheral disease seen an angio graphic result where you get flow down to like the mid foot but you see no perfusion down to

the digits and unfortunately that's often not going to be enough to heal a wound so the PPG's are something I try to get in all patients who have tote tote ones so there's an example of a patient who

has flatline and all five digits on the right foot and we recant alized their anterior tibial artery and had flow all the way down there and there was a wound blush in the toe and this is the restore pulsatilla T in all five digits the next

day so at our institution now and also I've modeled after what it was with my training which is the day after the procedure we keep all these patients overnight we get an ABI i segmental pressures and pulsefire

recordings and PPG's and anyone who has flat waveforms in them in their foot level or anybody with a toll sir and if possible we try to get a duplex which you get which I'll go over next it's not always reimbursable at all institutions

if you do them in the same day though so TCP o2 as I mentioned is something that's a little underutilized I think the the task two recommendations that we actually use to stratify the different types of disease and perf arterial

disease suggest that all patients with CLI should have this testing done but it's hard because patients have to not smoke and not drink coffee or tea the morning of the exam and that's hard to get patients to do you have to keep the

room temperature controlled and so it's office availability is limited so an improvement values greater than forty millimeters of mercury in the area surrounding an ulcer suggests that it's going to have successful healing so we

often will do this before we take the patient for an angiogram as a baseline and then bring them back afterwards and if we're if we have a very large increase that you know that's a good sign but of course we're our goal is

usually to be greater than forty and it's one of the few of these tests that's actually useful in patients who don't have Doppler signals so this is a totally not fake wound on this right foot this is example of what it looks

like you basically put multiple probes around the area of the foot and you're testing for the different oxygen tensions skin perfusion pressures is analogous but slightly different basically you're inflating a cop over

different areas of tissue and until the blood flow stops and then slowly deflating it until you can detect light being transmitted through that area again greater than thirty values or predictive of wound healing a lot of

numbers and there will be a test at the end of this so this is a chart kind of showing the ischemic wounds healing likelihood is correlated with an increase in the skin perfusion pressure so if you're less than 30 you're

unlikely to heal if you're greater than 40 it's most likely not an excuse mcquown and you should start looking at other ideologies like venous disease or neuropath neuropathic disease or infection duplex ultrasound is extremely

so we're just gonna like hop over to the clinic side and kind of discuss how we work up or what are the things we look for when we see the patients in clinic

so a lot of patients are referred to us by urologist so we have to have a urology on board to to better take care of this patient we can't treat this patient you know by ourselves so a lot of patients are referred to us by our

neurology team if they don't have a urologist we have to refer to them to erosions first before we can even work them up or PAE so we won't make sure that patient you know doesn't have any underlying cancer that we know of so we

want to make sure that we check their PSA levels because this high high patient can ask actually I predict a decent progression and actually our risk for acute urinary retention you want to make sure that you get

urinalysis a lot of patience wet with lots is not only due to pph you could also be secondary to UTI or if patient has some type of bladder tumor or bladder disorder so it's kind of good to know to understand some of the lingo

that urology uses so once they see the urologist they do some your dynamic studies and one of the popular ones are these non-invasive studies called euro flama tree and the post-void residual do you offer the Euro excuse me you heard

from a tree usually we will measure the flow rate and the volume of the patients so what they do is they they would pee in this special funnel and the final obviously they go in private but this final is connected to some machine that

can actually measures how fast and how much their voiding and so normally it's about 25 miles per second but if it's anywhere less than 13 to 15 it can suggest obstruction and use the obstructions usually due to BPH some of

us a very low flow rate such as like say less than ten or six you have you want to be a suspicious of some type of you to neutral structure after they do that usually what they'll do is they take a post void residual is basically scan so

they'll put that little probe above the bladder and they'll see how much is left in a bladder if it's 150 that she usually indicates in complete emptying someone who has greater than 200 that may suggest patients having some type of

bladder dysfunction so a lot of its patients to us at least woke up with some type of imaging and the ones that at least our physician selects is the MRI patient do get a CT angiogram which can also evaluate the pelvic Anatomy and

arteries however the process the mr process actually gives a better illustration of the prostate a tissue to see if there's any suspicious for cancer for example you can also display the president atomy and characteristic up

the gland so most patients do get MRI or at least we get them to get MRI to measure the actual volume in literature they will tell you that a patient can get a trance rectal ultrasound but I'm not sure how many

guys in here would like a probe stuck up their butt to get to get their prostate measured so unless you wanted to get pissed at you just supporter I am right so when we see the patient you obviously want to review their HMP more

importantly you'll want to check their comorbidities there's social history whether it is smoke or not because they're gonna that's gonna have an impact on how we stay patients and how you can predict their anatomies

obviously someone's died who is diabetic or who has a history of smoking you could expect for them to have a greater degree of atherosclerosis and again the first thing that we would get the patient why we walked in is we go in

that scoresheet the IPSS score and so that's gonna give us an idea of how bad this symptoms are so if they come in to us with a score of say you know they're mildly symptomatic I'm not sure how much to pee a procedure with would help them

because how much more lower can we get their scores down so a lot of patients we would treat are in the moderate to severe category and their quality of life score should be for the most part will be about three or higher you also

want to make sure the trusted results since this is Andrew Graham procedures you will make sure that they have a pretty decent renal function patients with lots a lot of them may have some degree of renal insufficiency so we have

to be careful make sure we watch that lab value so this is some of the screening criteria that a lot of us may use so patients who I have refractory to medications for the six months someone has a high IPSS core grain 13 or

qualifies score greater than three process volumes gotta be at least 40 grams we sometimes get patients with a high score but they're positive volumes around 30 we usually usually wouldn't treat those

patient because we can't basically treat or shrink the prostate any any lower than that you someone who has an abnormal urine Flo and someone who maybe refractor to medical therapy these are just a list of

exclusion criteria the ones that should my party set out someone who has prostatitis or current approximate infection you definitely want don't want to treat those patients chronic renal failure and relatively maybe coagulation

factors that could be patient dependent sometime sometimes we could optimize them to get this arteriogram procedure and prostate and bladder malignancy also this somewhat also relative we do treat patients with prostate cancer it just

depends on what course of treatment they're on currently so once we had screen the patients and and deemed them to be a candidate we reviewed the patient we review in detail the procedure with the patient so you want

to let them know that it's a our angiogram procedure that will go through the either the growing or sometimes the radio and the procedure itself you can take anywhere from one for one to four hours and sometimes longer depending on

how complicated their arteries feeding the prosthetist more importantly we want to educate them about the side effects okay we have to let them know that a lot of their symptoms might actually worsen during the first few days after the

procedure so if they have the Syria now urinary continence they actually may get really worse especially for the first few days okay we have to go over the complication with the patients that can include a public infection ischemia or

any vessel related complications that pseudoaneurysm or bleeding so we have to basically have a basic knowledge of how do we combat this side effects and these are just some of the list of side effects that

are mentioning or at least we also used a PI radium it helps I guess to numb up the prostate urethra we have to educate the patient that this can change the color of the urine so we always make a note to our patients that if you are

going to take this medication please call us that way we don't kind of shock you and we also know that the change of color is from the pair radium and not from anything else the tripping or oxybutynin

it helps reduce bladder spasm we would normally use it for a patient who go somewhere to Foley our patients would go some Foley tends to have a great degree of bladder spasm Coley's a lot of spatially get constipated for multiple

reasons being better that or they and she is soft and there's also the over-the-counter azem so this is just a sum of the standard medications that we would give all our patients all of them will get about cipro for seven days

we'll give them some type of anti-inflammatory Asia usually is ibuprofen were prescribed 800 a tid if needed anti-acids since it's just to protect your belly or their stomach from the ibuprofen minimum we'll get a stool

softener at least for the first three days or if they got developed loose toast and we would ask them to stop it and the medications for pain that we would get them as Norco just in case and I would say like more than half these

patients don't even need Norco at best they'll probably use ibuprofen you know just to minimize the inflammatory side effects that I get it also helps out with post embolization that sometimes we'll get and I believe so I don't I'm

not sure if I'm messing about post embolization syndrome patient do can get these symptoms and a lot of symptoms can vary they can get some body slug or fever malaise and the degree the symptoms were may bear from patient to

patient and a lot of symptoms are described kind of like a flu-like symptoms and we also want to reiterate a patient that the symptoms are temporary and it should get better over to at least at first week or so so patients on

warfarin we have a lot of patients on warfarin for whatever reason whether they had a recent cardiac intervention we want to assure that we stop those medications at least before the edge ground procedure so it's very important

that you have a good rapport or whoever and have prescribed him the coumadin whether it's a cardiologist or the surgical team and a lot of dissipation may need to be crossover outside like a short-acting

anticoagulation such as Lobo Knox at least in our practice we ask the patient to this condition discontinue your aspirin unless they're you know they have a recent cardiac intervention we may leave it leave them

on aspirin metformin as very important since we did it is a natural procedure we want to at least hold have the patient hold the metformin the morning of the procedure and maybe a couple of days after and someone who are

allergic to contrasts we will make sure that we're prepared to premedicate a patient and also be prepared in case there's a severe reaction and the pre medication as we know will give them some type of a standard metal prednisone

will they'll take it like twelve seven or one hour before and they also gets unbearable and preoperatively or one hour before the procedure and during the clinic we also determine the level of anesthesia so since this procedure

usually takes a long time we always get it with our anesthesia team is just more for patient comfort it's not really for pain okay I couldn't imagine laying a table for several hours at the time so we all shop anesthesia on board just

really for patient comfort so we're just

massive PE well let's remember this at this point including all the trials that preceded the pytho trial almost 1 700 patients have been randomized into systemic lytic trials for some massive p yep all we have on the CDT side is the

ultimate trial of 59 patients non-us single was a single trial that's where this initiative is coming from to improve the data this trial called P track and I have preliminary information that we just made our first breakthrough

in fronting from the NIH so very excited that we have a planning grant to potentially get this thing moving so P tract is basically designed to be a randomized control trial of catheter directed therapy versus no catheter

directed therapy for sub massive PE to really try to answer this question just like the pytho trial tried to do for systemic thrombolysis in the setting of catheter Ida thrombolysis and this time we're not just using surrogate endpoints

we're not you the rvw ratio is probably not even gonna be calculated but what we want to know are these are patients doing better in one arm or the other and we're going to use outcomes that are important to both patients and providers

400 to 500 patients most likely looking at sites all across the so but we are still in this time when

workflow for pet MRI upon arrival the patient have to fill out questionnaires the MRI screening for contrast and allergy assessment pet screening form

the RT will review MRI screening for after he checked that the patients at MRI safe and no presence of a Mia Ferris fragments or anything he would give the paper to the RN the patient then will be escorted through the change room and

asked to put on robe and non slip shots this is these are the responsibilities of the nurse in our clinical workflow for pet MRI RN to review pet screening form and contrast questionnaire if patient have to receive gadolinium check

kidney function EGFR below 15 you notify the radiologist except for a of s below 30 you notify the radiologist check for allergies if allergic make sure patients is properly pre-medicated

check for Medicaid presence of medication patches and implanted infusion pumps now also you have to check for patient's blood glucose monitoring I have one but I would but I don't go inside the scanner so I'm safe

check for pregnancy status with pediatric patients we have a special process to follow the iron then obtains blood glucose and record if blood glucose is 70 to 199 we proceed with the scan anything above 200 we follow the

glycemic management with PET imaging flow chart and here's how our PET imaging flow chart looks like it looks complicated by its color coded it's three pages but I would like to show you some key points like the administration

of insulin is also based on the level of BMI you see on the arrow says BMI below 25 and there's another flow chart is if it's above 25 after that the patient will be brought back to the pet designated injection room

remember our pet MRI is located in zone three of the MRI area so prior to that the RT would the screen the patient again the patient would pass through the wall-mounted metal detector and nobody could go into song free without escorted

by the IRT or a nurse you have to swipe your ID to open the door mission when the patients in the hot room are in would obtain the height in centimeters and weight in kilos after that the RN now could do IV access once

secured you call the range of pharmacists that you're ready to inject so we wait until and the FDG dose would come up through the pneumatic children this is how our hot lab looks like the pneumatic tube to your left above is the

shower and we have the hoop to prepare for the dose or check for the dose and the wash station and once the those arrives the nurse injecting and the RT is scanning or the RT assisting just always two artists in one machine in our

MRI Department we have four magnets and only one is for MRI PET MRI it's always two artists in each machine so one RT is assisting you and with the patient so once the FDG arrives we do a patient identification using two patient

identifiers we check the label and the dose if it's correct the FDG then will be injected to the patient once injected we tell the patient they have to wait for 40 minutes during this time we instruct them to stay still not stay

still but limit movement and stimulation and inform them that we have a camera inside that room and the nurses in a and the nurses could monitor them in the nurse's station one RT will set up the scanner and computer

and patient will be screen and wondered prior to so on for so you get wandered twice check for ferrous presence patient then will be positioned on the scanner table by the pet mr technologies it takes 15

to 20 minutes for setup you have seen how the patient is position the whole body is covered by the coils and head is covered by another coil as anybody among he works in the institution who requires time out prior to injection raise your

hand please at ms KCC we do this is done by the injecting nurse and the RT is scanning the RT is reading information directly from the monitor not anywhere in the monitor while the nurse is comparing and listening into the using

the documents on hand this is done to ensure the five rights the right patient the right scan the right area your scanning the right contrast those and rate and method of administration as you all know is either given IV push or by

the dynamic or the injector timeout will be done if patient will be receiving gadolinium once the scan is finished IV access will be removed our artists are trying to remove and inject also so they are capable of removing the IV the

radiation card will be handed to the patient and paste after that patient would be assisted to the change room and discharge there is good thing when you change the patient into the robe and the non-skid

sucks because just in case there's a spill you're not sending that patient into the paper outfit they're not gonna be happy at all now I'm gonna bring you

about massive PE so let's remember this slide 25 to 65 percent mortality what do we do with this what's our goal what's

our role as interventionalists here well we need to rescue these patients from death you know this it's a coin flip that they're going to die we need to really that there's only one job we have is to save this person's life get them

out of that vicious cycle get more blood into the left ventricle and get their systemic blood pressure up what are our tools systemic thrombolysis at the top catherine directed therapy at the right and surgical level that what

unblocked me at the left as I said before the easiest thing to do is put an IV in and give systemic thrombolysis but what's interesting is it's very much underused so this is a study from Paul Stein he looked at the National

inpatient sample database and he found that patients that got thrombolytic therapy with hypotension and this is all based on icd-10 coding actually had a better outcome than those who didn't we have several other studies that support

this but you look at this and it seems like our use of thrombolytics and massive PE is going down and I think into the for whatever reason that that the specter of bleeding is really on people's minds and and for and we're not

using systemic thrombolysis as often as we should that being said there are cases in which thrombolytics are contraindicated or in which they fail and that opens the door for these other therapies surgical unblocked demand

catheter active therapy surgical unblocked mean really does have a role here I'm not going to speak about it because I'm an interventionist but we can't forget that so catheter directed therapy all sorts

of potential options you got the angio vac device over here you've got the penumbra cat 8 device here you've got an infusion catheter both here and here you've got the cleaner device I haven't pictured the inari float

Reaver which is a great new device that's entered the market as well my message to you is that you can throw the kitchen sink at these patients whatever it takes to open up a channel and get blood to the left ventricle you can do

now that being said there is the angio jet which has a blackbox warning in the pulmonary artery I will never use it because I'm not used to using it but you talk to Alan Matsumoto Zieve Haskell these guys have a lot of experience with

the androgen and PE they know how to use it but I would say though they're the only two people that I know that should use that device because it is associated with increased death within the setting of PE we don't really know you know with

great precision why that happens but theoretically what that causes is a release of adenosine can cause bradycardia bradycardia and massive p/e they just don't mix well so

these are our prospective CDT trials it's a lot to go through them so I'm not going to suffice it to say that the only one of these that is randomized is the

one in the top left the ultimate trial with 59 patients the rest of these are single set are single arm studies the optimized trial was randomized but the key arm it did not have was a control arm so all it did was vary the amount of

drug but there was no control arm to tell us how are people doing if they just get heparin well and I'll show you one result from these trials that is the most important result and that is up from the ultimate trial at 24 hours CDT

catheter to thrombolysis reduces the RV to lv ratio to a greater extent than heparin alone what does that mean so you saw all those pictures with the big dilated right ventricles our surrogate measure for right ventricular

dysfunction is the ratio of the diameter the inner diameter of the right ventricle to the left ventricle what we found in this study was that that ratio got reduced to a greater extent at 24 hours in the CDT arm compared to heparin

alone that means that CDT seems to reduce our V dysfunction faster than heparin now importantly 30 days later the echos looked identical so really it's a question of time which is not surprising what we've noticed in

our practice is that patients feel better faster okay I'm gonna go through the rest of this because I'm out of time but I want to give you a little bit of a sense of where we're going because there's bleeding associated with CDT and

maybe I'll show you this that in the Seattle to trial there was an 11% major bleeding rate now this was a pretty conservative definition but there were some serious bleeds and there were no intracranial

hemorrhages in this study but we have realized that CDT is not risk-free it's not like we've all of a sudden gained all of the advantages of systemic thrombolytics and none of the disadvantages now the rate of

intracranial hemorrhage seems to be about tenfold less but it does happen about 0.2 to 0.4% of the time the rate of major bleeding seems to be about 5% which is about half the rate of major bleeding that we see with system or

thrombosis so bleeding is still there it just doesn't seem to be as frequent so that's where some of these other devices are coming in then our a float Reaver the the the extra penumbra indigo cat 8 device and so the the float Reaver is

has actually gone through the full trial and the results are about to be published what is this thing well it's this pretty big hose which is about 20 French and it goes through the right heart and goes up there and it takes

this clot and literally aspirates it out and these are some of the things that will come out and that's sort of your post picture right there the data showed something similar to what we saw with the catheter directed thrombolysis

trials they had looked at 106 patients are vlv ratio was reduced again there's no comparator arm here so this is just the device on its own with a 3.8 percent adverse event rate and so now we're talking about mechanical devices that

don't use a clot-busting medication therefore you're gonna you can expect less bleeding but you're trading some of that off for a mechanical device that can cause injury to either myocardial structures or to the pulmonary artery so

that's something we have to be highly cognizant of as they're introduced into the market this is the penumbra cat 8 this is from Jim Benenati publication basically showing a couple things that's the separator that is the actual

catheter and that's the sheath back there so you've got poor profusion because of a clot in the inter lobar pulmonary artery and then at the end of it you have better perfusion for lung down there so we actually just completed

enrollment into the extract PE trial 120 sub massive PE patients the same efficacy endpoint you have to remember that has been established by the FDA as a way to get approval this is not the final

study nor should it be the final study when we evaluate these devices so to summarize sub massive PE what does the data not tell us CDT probably reduces the RV to LV ratio at 24 hours that is the main outcome that I want you

guys to remember from the ultimate trial it's associated you didn't see this data so don't worry about that we do see major bleeding and sometimes rarely but sometimes we see intracranial bleeding with CDT as well so what we're missing

from catheter directed thrombosis for sub massive PE is what are the clinical outcomes the RV to LV ratio is a surrogate outcome what about death what about clinical deterioration what about recurrent hospitalization what

about recurrent VTE how are people doing in the long term are they walking as well as they were before we don't know any of this none of the data right so far can tell us any of this information so where do we go from here for sub

patient like this you have a very large left lateral HCC that's invading the left the patek vein and extending into the heart since when we get into things like radioembolisation if you have

multifocal liver disease if you want to apply radiation therapy to that's very difficult to do that because it actually requires more radiation dose to kill HCC than it does the adjacent normal liver the liver is actually that ready

sensitive so you can do things like SBRT and pick an individual lesion you can do things like a imrt which is you know survey 8 non focus generalize low dose but what's interesting Malaysian is that if you administer

particles they only shoot about two millimeters worth of the raishin field around it so of what used is that with one not much but if you put eight to forty million of them within the bloodstream they Auto sort themselves

based off of the vascular flow preferential that exists with tumors tumors actually emit hormones pull in blood supply that you weren't born with and that actually tends to pull beads from the bloodstream preferentially

towards it so this is an example where you stain a tumor with two types of wax one the portal that's blue one the artery that's red and you can see how much that preferential exists so what ends up happening is these spheres

cluster within the tumor and then provide local dose radiation that's very hot where the tumor is and low elsewhere so here's an example of that this is a patient with metastatic neuroendocrine disease multifocal liver lesions you can

see that vascular flow preferential this is what it looks like on the maa when we jecht a protein particle surrogate that has a technician I should have assigned to it just as a visualization of how the particle is

going to sort out and the post y9t bremsstrahlung CT is over there and you can see how intense the necrosis is within the tumor and how much it's spared the normal liver however you do get some radiation damage they don't

live a regardless that's why choosing the timing of when you're gonna do this is important this is a patient that was treated with tastes above and one session of y9u beneath so you can see that they do have different types of

therapeutic mechanisms they're not the same even though they look very similar in terms of when we're administering

note of PA D in patients with diabetes unfortunately in diabetes all the bad things that happen in PA D amplified in diabetes so 20% of patients with

diabetes over 40 40 have PA D diabetes increases the risk of claudication three times in men eight times in women all right basically everything you think about going bad happens in diabetes it is more common it's more often silent

which means you're not going to catch it earlier it happens at a younger age it gets worse faster and the male and female distributions equal 15% of patients with diabetes develop ulcers and 85% of amputations it's the most

common cause of non-traumatic amputations worldwide and should be preventable so when we're in the angio

problem so first of all as you know all vascular disease is related in other words coronary artery disease is related

to cerebral vascular disease is related to lower extremity or peripheral artery disease they're all intertwined okay that's why a lot of our patients that we see for peripheral t disease have a sternotomy score or a coronary stent or

have had strokes I will remind you that cardiovascular disease is the number one cause of death in the u.s. for both men and women to this day we still hear vascular disease is an old man's disease that is BS it is the number one cause of

death in women in the United States

peripheral artery disease affects up to 12 million peopl amputations occur yearly do a peripheral artery disease specifically critical

limb ischemia that is almost certainly way more than should be done up to two million people have critical limb ischemia so how do patients present when they have PA d in general okay there's really one of two presentations general

categories the first thing is intermittent claudication so Claude occation means I walk and I get pain okay when I stop walking the pain goes away you also have critical limb ischemia

which we call CLI CLI is such severe peripheral artery disease that you actually a foot and leg pain at rest in other words your blood flow is so bad that even at rest you don't have enough perfusion to go to

your foot and you have a scheming pain or your blood flow is so bad that you can't heal a sore or an ulcer okay so forget walking these are the this is the most severe form of peripheral artery disease

okay so again Kumar mentioned this before peripheral artery disease is like a highway if you and I say this a million times a day my pas are so sick of hearing it if you block a highway traffic can't get through and so it has

to go through detours when you go through detours you're always slower things are never as efficient and you back up that's exactly what happens here plaque builds up in the artery blood flow can't get through and so you can't

get to where you're going there's the highway analogy a key point and again I hear this all the time you know the patient came in with a wound but it's weird they never had claudication so maybe this isn't arterial wrong

intermittent claudication does not need to come before critical limb ischemia in other words many patients their first presentation is critical of ischemia so they'll never know that PA D they never have what you know pain when they walk

their first presentation is a potentially severe morbid and mortal one so what are the risks factors for PID it's everything we think about smoking obviously is a big one high blood pressure cholesterol diabetes obesity

physical activity well there's other risk factors family history and age so my question is what's the difference between these two risk factors what there's been these risk factors and these risk factors

one is changeable the other is not as much as we try with Botox or Juvederm or whatever it is we can't change our age and as much as we try we can't change our family history but we can change smoking and cholesterol and do all the

things that we can do and it's not easy but it can be done I will say a special

here are the treatment options and I did want to include a fourth one it says nothing about the intervention per se but it's medical management which was actually had the significant growth over the last decade and really more

aggressive medical management every treatment below this should have medical management included as part of it so I included that first that's critical if you're gonna have a carotid endarterectomy if that's what ultimately

your your physician decides then you should still have medical management before and after carotid artery stenting and then ultimately trans carotid artery stenting so carotid endarterectomy I'll show you a case example but this is a

diagram illustrating what's ultimately done that longitudinal incision and then removal of that plaque this is what the plaque looks like when it comes out as opposed to carotid artery stenting which is less invasive obviously and we place

a stent but we don't actually remove the plaque overall you know you know we can talk about why that's okay in fact the plaque itself doesn't need to come up what we need to improve the flow and stabilize that plaque from being able to

embolize small clot overall medical therapy is really just these basic things aspirin or sometimes dual antiplatelet therapy so that's aspirin and plavix in addition aggressive statin therapy so

Doc's will Vascular Docs anyone interested in this space will have you a non-aggressive statins or cholesterol-lowering medications stop smoking tight glucose control so those diabetics have to be really well

regulated and in the blood pressure control if you don't do those things no matter what you do with the carotid endarterectomy or the stenting is gonna fail so what's carotid endarterectomy

with shoulder I'll go through this hopefully in five five minutes and I'll be under like 20 so frozen shoulder we're going to shift gears so unlike

arthritis frozen shoulder is an inflammatory condition that starts out of nowhere the classic history is a 35 to 45 year old woman who wakes up in the morning and says my shoulder hurts they think they slept on it incorrectly and

the pain does not go away they take medication doesn't go away the pain is worse at night and they can't figure out why it takes him about a month or two to go to orthopedic surgeon the surgeon goes you have frozen

shoulder they can't lift their arm forward they can't lift it laterally and basically it hurts over the shoulder they don't have a rotator cuff tear they don't have an injury they're not a baseball pitcher these are just average

people who are otherwise normally healthy except sometimes it occurs in certain patient populations it's a very prevalent disease and these are some of the risk factors so being female sorry that's an increased risk factor type 1

type 2 diabetics patients with hyperthyroidism even people who have autoimmune disease because there's some inflammatory process going on there are multiple stages one to four like in every disease of course early on it's

just inflammation but you'll see as you get to stage four you get these adhesions and stiffness in the shoulder so if you see someone who's a year out from this diagnosis who's really slobbing symptoms they cannot lift

they're on many of these patients walk around just like this and you they'll go to shake their hand they can't even get their hand out any further than that and so it can be a really progressive disease and really disabling to be

honest on MRI you can see findings that suggest this so on the top two images there are arrows that show exactly what I showed you in the knee this is thickening of basically the lining of the shoulder and they see this actually

even when they do arthroscopy and they actually put a camera inside the joint in these people with frozen shoulder as well remember I showed you this slide earlier exactly what we know more blood vessels in the lining in patients with

frozen shoulder than not more nerves more blood vessels what's been done on frozen shoulder has this been done well that same doctor in Japan dr. Okun Oh had published a study a number of years ago where in 24 patients he injected the

same antibiotic and 2/3 of these patients got rapid pain relief just one week after the after the procedure he analyzed the show and 87% at a month and there was basically no worsening or recurrences in

these patients out to 36 months so very good very good results but again we wanted to replicate that here in the United States so we applied to the FDA for an investigational device exemption study we're performing this study

actually it's sponsored by Tomo and we're enrolling patients who have a diagnosis of frozen children were working very closely with an orthopedic surgeon who just specializes in shoulder joints he's actually a very well

recognized shoulder surgeon so these patients like our knee patients have to be refractory to something and what we're looking for and this is a patient in in our clinical study is that red arrow on the Left points to an image

where that synovium enhances and on the right where the synovium is thickened and same thing here this is a case where it's even worse you can even see that white capsule all the way around the joint very prominent enhancement the

problem with shoulder embolization and we thought this would be great we do all our cases radial for life you know we'll do prostates uterine fibroids y9t we're like this is gonna be great we only have to go from here to here and

everything's gonna be fantastic the problem is you'll see here from this angiogram just at the subclavian artery is that all the vessels come off pointed towards the hand nothing really comes off when you're going this way so

unfortunately when you're going in with your catheter everything looks like you're gonna be going you know reverse and that can make things really painful and you need a 2o French catheter to get into these because they're so small and

they don't make very many - Oh French pre-curved or pre shaped catheters so you have all these challenges that we thought were gonna be we didn't realize in the beginning and the other thing is write everything now has made radial -

coronary or radial two legs or radial - pelvis or celiac but the distance is you can imagine from here to here I need a 90 centimeter based catheter in a 110 or 120 micro catheter I don't really you know people make 80s and 80s aren't long

enough and people make one 10s and they're too long and so we really found this to be actually fairly more difficult than we realized there are also six arteries that you have to get into in the shoulder so it's very

tedious and you have to get into all these and when you're injecting embolic in and around the vertebral artery and you guys recognize that on the image that's on the screen that's the largest artery there so if you're going to get

reflux you want to avoid of course having a stroke so especially in these younger female patients over 35 to 45 and you're taking something and put at risk so it can be a little bit more of a challenging procedure and obviously

if you have you know physicians and a team who are used to doing things like prostate and advanced celiac embolization for example you know that kind of team will be used to this but they're definitely more challenges than

we realized and so there are six arteries that we have to get into and you can see that third one of how tiny that is and I'll go through all these really quickly this is the suprascapular artery okay this is the first branch we

actually just number them one to six and you could see over that shoulder on the left look how hyper vascular that's actually worse than the knee that's pre-imposed embolization okay this is the throttle acromial artery the

throttle chromia artery as you can imagine goes to the acromion process and the shoulder and you can see on the left it sort of drapes over the shoulder as that hyper vascularity this is the coracoid artery you will not

find this artery in any anatomic textbook anywhere when I flew to Japan to work with dr. Okun oh when I went there and he's like we're going into the coracoid I'm like where is this I'm sitting there on my cellphone like while

he's doing the case looking up the cord under I couldn't find it anywhere looked in Grey's Anatomy looked at oof lockers masculine angio textbook it's nowhere it exists and just like you think it goes right to the coracoid

process which you can see on the image on the right and you can see the degree of vascularity and it's responsible for this anterior pain that patients feel and here's the circumflex scapular artery most of you have probably seen

this in some form or another and as you can see it goes to the inferior aspect of the shoulder so that goes to the bottom of the capsule on the right you can see how it's coming right under the humeral head and then there's the

anterior and posterior humeral circumflex arteries one in front of the humeral head one behind the Hume right so these six arteries we have to get into and we have to figure out which are hyper vascular and that embolized them

and of course like in prostate like in every other place is going to be aberrant anatomy our very first case we go into I came back from Japan we're all excited to start the clinical trial I'm looking for the I'm looking for the

suprascapular artery and lo and behold it comes off the lean of the Lima and I'm like oh that's interesting you know how the heck we're getting in this and so you run into these challenges just like in any other situation and so we're

learning we're getting through this and learning about this patient population as well I will tell you so we don't I don't have any preliminary data to share because we just have done eight patients out of 20 but all but one had a dramatic

improvement I mean even far better than our knee patients they're coming in there like 10 out of 10 they're like do this I had a patient we made a video because she wants to show her orthopedic surgeon if her arms just throwing around

like this and she was like dancing in my office and I'm texting and pictures it's really remarkable and what's great about this is there's no treatment option so orthopedic surgeons said them to go get physical therapy take pain meds there's

nothing to do for these patients so this is a real opportunity hopefully by the end of you know this year we'll be finished and rolling and following up on these patients and we're hoping by maybe early 2020 which is not too far away

you'll probably see an fda-approved product even for the embolization so things are moving pretty quickly and just as just one case again if someone who has severe superior labral pain you can see the image on the right how

densely standing or vasco's it's very easy to see and I'll challenge you when you go back and you're doing a leg angiogram and you look and they do a run off and you see staining around the knee or some of that blush just reach over

and ask the patient and palpate right where it is and go do you have pain right here and I'll bet you they'll say yes you never really would have paid attention at any time before and now we do it kind of for fun when we're doing

our run offs for other reasons of course for CLI etc but it's really interesting and you'll go back and see that so in conclusion embolization really is an exciting has an exciting future really in the setting of msk related pain there

will be need to be many more larger studies of course this is still investigational we do not tell people to go out and start doing this we need to really better understand how angiogenesis really affects these

disease processes and with that I will finish thanks very much [Music]

now that you all have an overview and a refresher of nursing school and how these medications work in our body I want to now go over our practice

guidelines and the considerations that we take into place so as you know I'm not going to go over into detail the patient populations that are prescribed these meds but kind of knowing that these are the

patients that we see in our practice that for example are on your direct direct vector 10a inhibitors patients with afib or artificial valves or patients with a clock er sorry a factor v clotting disorder these oral direct

thrombin inhibitors patients with coronary artery thrombosis or patients who are at risk for hit in even patients with percutaneous coronary intervention or even for prophylaxis purposes your p2 y12 inhibitors or your platelet

inhibitors are your cabbage patients or your patients with coronary artery disease or if your patients have had a TI AR and mi continued your Cox inhibitors rheumatoid arthritis patients osteoarthritis vitamin K antagonists a

fib heart failure patients who have had heart failure mechanical valves placed pulmonary embolism or DVT patients and then your angiogenesis inhibitors kind of like Kerry said these are newer to our practice these are things that we

had just recently really kind of get caught up with these cancer agents because there really aren't any monitoring factors for these and there is not a lot of established literature out there knowing that granted caring I

did our literature review almost two years ago now so 18 months ago there is a lot more literature and obviously we learned things this morning so our guidelines are reviewed on a by yearly basis so we will be reviewing these too

so there is more literature out there for these thank goodness so now we want to kind of go into two hold or not to hold these medications so knowing that we have these guidelines and we'll be sharing you with you the tables that

tell us hold for five days for example hold for seven days some of these medications depending on why the patient is taking them are not safe to hold so some of the articles that we reviewed showed that for sure there's absolutely

an identified risk with holding aspirin for example a case study found that a patient was taking aspirin for coronary artery disease and had an MI that was associated with holding aspirin for a

radiology procedure they found that this happened in 2% of patients so 11 of 475 patients that sounds small number but in our practice we do about 400 procedures in a week so that would be 11 patients in one week that would have had possibly

an adverse reaction to holding their aspirin and then your Cox inhibitors or your NSAIDs as Carrie already mentioned it's just really important to know that some of those the Cox inhibitors have no platelet effects and then your NSAIDs

can be helped because their platelet function is normalized within 24 to 48 hours Worf Roman coumadin so depending on the procedure type and we'll go into that to here where we have low risk versus moderate to high risk

we do recommend occasionally holding warfarin however we need to verify why the patient is absolutely on their warfarin and if bridging is an option because as you learn bridging is not always on the most appropriate thing for

your patient so when patients on warfarin and they do not have any lab values available that's when you really need to step outside of guidelines and talk with your radiologists your procedure list and potentially have a

physician to physician discussion to determine what's best for a particular patient this just kind of goes into your adp inhibitors and plavix a few of the studies that we showed 50 are sorry 63 patients who took Plex within five days

of their putt biopsy they found that there was of those one bleeding complication during a lung biopsy so minimal so that's kind of why we have created our guidelines the way we did and here's just more information

regarding your direct thrombin inhibitors as cari alluded to products is something that we see very commonly in our practice and then your direct vector 10a inhibitors this is what we found in the literature

very helpful these patients the calcium this and the vessels can be

seen through with the MRA it doesn't it doesn't cause as much artifact so it could be easier to see what's going on in calcified vessels additionally you saw an image in Marc's talk as well of this is an example of a time-resolved

image of an MRA or you can basically recreate exactly what you're seeing in an angiogram and this could be very helpful to kind of determine what kind of TVL disease you're getting yourself into

newer MRI techniques that we're using in the evaluation patients with PID functional MRI which compares the ratio of how much oxygen versus deoxygenated hemoglobin we have in a tissue so we can apply this to a pre and post exercise

scenario in patients to have claudication as well although it's not it's only approved in research protocols this is an example of what you see for that so pre intervention here's the CTA image reconstruct

in 3d with a long segment an iliac occlusion and then post intervention you can see there's a standard reconstructed vessel and the you can both chart this out and do it and superimpose it on the MRA image and you're gonna get an actual

quantitative amount of tissue reperfusion but studies are still ongoing to determine just how much increasing the amount of red that's in that image is important we don't know the answer to that yet here's just

another example a patient underwent an anterior tibial artery recanalization and you can see the improvement in the t2 star which is just one of the one of the measurements that you can use on these images so what's on the horizon

Kerry go into kind of a refresher from

this morning for you all this is a video from a liver biopsy and let's just start that no we actually don't know how to play this from the clicker okay

so this is just a short clip to show normal bleeding everybody bleeds and all the procedures that we do involve placing needle in the patient so we are going to have some amount of bleeding and it can range from seconds to minutes

and hopefully it's a fairly minimal amount of blood loss typically what happens is the needle is inserted into the patient the body detects the injury clotting mechanisms are activated hemostasis is restored which sounds

pretty simple but as you may remember from this morning there are a lot of different mechanisms involved that make that happen and we wanted to just provide a brief overview for those of us that have been out of nursing school for

a little while so we thought it would be helpful to start with just a brief generalized overview the first step obviously is the endothelial injury platelet plug forms the coagulation cascade starts we get a clot and then we

have the Ambo thrombotic control mechanisms and the fibrinolysis in our practice we're really just concerned with the first two we really just want to make sure that the patient has the ability to clot so here's a fairly

simplified version of the coagulation cascade the factors are the Roman numerals and to keep it simple we've just included a few of them so we have a wound occurring the endothelial cells release the tissue factor which combines

with some factors we get factor 10 release produces thrombin and eventually fibrin we also have this amplification loop that's happening at the same time so we need some of these factors we need the thrombin for this all to work

so at this point we have thrombin being generated by the pathways more being created by the amplification process and that thrombin then binds to these platelet para scepters up here and that initiates cofactors assembling on the

platelets which makes them sticky causing them to adhere to the site of injury when the platelets are activated we have the adenosine diphosphate molecule or ADP that's also binding to some receptors specifically I didn't

include the p2y on this but the p2 y 12 which then eventually winds up activating this molecule down here that molecule is normally this complex I should say is normally folded over but when the platelet is activated it

unfolds and it allows the fibrinogen to bind and then that secures the platelets to each other so with the medications that we run into in our in our practice one of the ones that you learned about this morning where the direct factor 10

inhibitors we typically see Xarelto and Eliquis the most in our practice and as you can see by the red stop signs there are two places that these inhibitors work here and here they bind to the thrombin while the while the drug is

circulating in the blood which essentially removes that factor Xa from the equation if we don't get thrombin we don't get a thrombus we don't have a plat no these things do have a relatively short half-life and in our

practice we do not monitor these with routine labs the direct thrombin inhibitors Pradaxa is the one that we see the most work one step further down the chain these are actually interfering with the power receptors so they bind to

those and that prevents the platelet activation and aggregation these can be monitored with a PTT although research tells us that it doesn't necessarily correlate with the actual levels circulating in the

blood and the different methods of sampling aren't consistent so this is not something that we routinely monitor with labs in our practice as well and I do have agents and clinical trials on here they were in trials I believe at

the time we started doing this research but as we learned this morning some of them are currently available and these do have a short half-life so their effect is relatively limited and they are reversible so the inhibitors that

work on this p2y twelve receptor are actually binding to that receptor and this is irreversible so this is going to affect the playlet for the life of the platelet seven to ten days and as we learned this morning there's a certain

amount of turnover happening all the time so there are always new platelets being produced so if we stop this we don't necessarily need to hold it for the entire seven to ten days but it is something that's going to take a while

for the patient's body to overcome and the thing that we wanted you to note about this this is an inhibitor it's an inhibitory effect so it's not necessarily captured that accurately by lab values the platelets are still there

they just don't work as well and so you can do a platelet count but it's not going to show you how well those platelets are functioning so again this is another medication that doesn't really get captured with lab values

sorry little operator error here on the remote control so the Cox inhibitors aspirin is the one that we're probably most familiar with same kind of thing aspirin is permanently affecting the platelet over its lifespan of seven to

ten days the ibuprofen the naproxen or Aleve the effect is much more limited for these medications so we're going to hold these again these are medication that will not necessarily be accurately reflected by a lab value so in our

practice we rely on oral confirmation of the last dose we literally ask the patient when was your last dose of advil when was your last dose of aspirin and we can compare it to our procedural guidelines

we also talked about these a little bit this morning we have the vitamin K antagonists warfarin is the one that you hear about you also hear about it called to mannan by the other name the liver is producing these clotting factors which

are reliant on a reaction that happens with vitamin K these things actually work by interfering with the vitamin K cycle now if you put more vitamin K in this reaction can still happen or if we add FFP that already has these factors

in it the patient has the ability to clot so this is reversible we can also choose to not reverse patients that are on warfarin Nikhil talked a little bit about the bridging that we sometimes do with patients that are on warfarin but

this is one that we still encounter pretty frequently and typically it is monitored with the pt/inr and we are currently screening for angiogenesis inhibitors in our practice these are used to treat different kinds of cancer

the one that we are primarily concerned with is the imbruvica the mechanism of action how this causes bleeding isn't fully understood but it's thought that since these inhibit the development of endothelial cells those cells aren't

available to release the factors needed to start the clotting cascade and especially if these are used in conjunction with anti platelets or anticoagulation they can really have a it can really have an effect on the

patient's bleeding risk and they can also cause thrombocytopenia thank you

possible even though the you know strictures actually most likely are related to the malignant frequently in large centers like the Asura actually we see more benign strictures and malignant

strictures mainly because of the post-operative and perioperative complications so strictly speaking the incidence of reduced riches is actually flipped sometimes though we do actually have to help and some more patients now

particularly in the GI Sims I think in the ten last ten years GI now places metal stents almost routinely there's almost there are people still placing skinny in those things are two plastic calibers things

but the advent of retrievable removable metal stents has really changed and so now we will place dancing much frequently in that the wall stent is actually the pre derivative of the wall flex which is the Justin that can be

removed it's got a little barb that removes it and it's what they will do is retrograde put these up and then six weeks later or even up to nine months go in and retrieve it and pull them out completely so they certainly and the

number of build with stains placement in G and IR is reduced somewhat because how aggressive gr has become but certainly will place these and particularly patients who are in the palliative stages of care and although these

applications we've used in many other ways so your goal is to get the same team this just happens to be a patient with unresectable head of pancreas cancer you can see the obstruction in the distal CBD just below the cystic

duct there's non pacified area you can see on the calendar gram as well as the celiac artery gram you can see how the portal vein sensor strictures of his patients unresectable will go in there in place

that metal stent you first place your guide why follow that up with a stent that cross bridges from open to open and open this up and we use stands between eight and ten millimeters in diameter and nowadays even covering the

cystic duct is not such a big deal and nowadays cupboards things are probably more in favor now even though the data the data actually doesn't support covering over uncovered and the data for both is actually extremely marked be

similar and it's not compelling and because of the price difference I think visit again a probably a swing back to I'm not standing every CPD stains with covered stands but no question at least from operators point of view in my point

of view it makes whole wholehearted sense to allow the tumor no interest disease to grow through but yet the outcome is still not clear that it's a favorable and cost-effective to do covered stains entirely and we actually

will place up to three drains sometimes you have these complex cancer patients with multiple strictures where almost all the segments are excluding in a extremely sick or they need their bilirubin's to come down for four to be

eligible for cut medical oncology chemotherapy and this is the selling of metastatic colorectal cancer and so that will put three up to three tubes in the right lobe before will give up and say that there's not much more decompression

we can achieve so four tiers is that probably the maximum will place in for multiple site so like I said you know malignant brutally strictures and this data and I'm not going to because it's sort of a moving target

when Gore came with the first covered stand purely because of the fabric that they have gore-tex like what's under jacket and clothing and was interesting it's one of the most improbable fabrics and the reasons why Bill Lewis stands

accrued is not so much that it's overgrowth of tumor but the in growth of bio and in growth of bacteria actually will cause a non-covered stain suit include earlier so the advent of gore and making a stent that made a big

difference and it's covered same it does to change quickly the ease at which patients could be stent in the new system so when they came on the market was really helpful and there's just example of how you can go from occlusion

all the way to having natural passage about now back into the small bar and the utility and the importance of bile salts power fluid in your GI tract is critical for absorption in almost all your metabolic

function so having this drain out externally is really not advisable so getting a natural pathway flow of bio into the GI system is extremely important but I believe strictures and

it's obviously either done with general

anesthesia or perhaps a regional block at our institution is generally done with general anesthesia we have a really combined vascular well developed combined vascular practice we work closely with our surgeons as well as

you know those who are involved in the vascular interventional space as far as the ir docs and and in this setting they would do generally general anesthetic and a longitudinal neck incision so you've got that and the need for that to

heal ultimately dissect out the internal carotid the external carotid common carotid and get vessel loops and good control over each of those and then once you have all of that you hyper NIH's the patient systemically not unlike what we

do in the angio suite and then they make a nice longer-term longitudinal incision on the carotid you spot scissors to cut those up and they actually find that plaque you can see that plaque that's shown there it's you know actually

pretty impressive if you've seen it and let's want to show an illustrative picture there ultimately that's open that's removed you don't get the entirety of the plaque inside the vessel but they get as much as they can and

then they kind of pull and yank and that's one of the pitfalls of this procedure I think ultimately is you don't get all of it you get a lot more than you realize is they're on on angiography but you don't get all of it

and whatever is left sometimes can be sometimes worse off and then ultimately you close the wound reverse the heparin and closed closed it overall and hope that they don't have an issue with wound healing don't have an issue with a

general anesthetic and don't have a stroke in the interim while they've clamped and controlled the vessel above and below so here's a case example from our institution in the past year this is a critical asymptomatic left internal

carotid artery stenosis pretty stenotic it almost looks like it's vocally occluded you can see that doesn't look very long it's in the proximal internal carotid artery you can see actually the proximal external carotid artery which

is that kind of fat vessel anteriorly also looks stenotic and so it's going to be addressed as well and this is how they treated it this is the exposure in this particular patient big incision extractors place and you can see vessel

loops up along the internal and external carotid arteries distally along some early branches of the external carotid artery off to the side and then down below in the common core artery and ultimately you get good vessel control

you clamp before you make the incision ultimately take out a plaque that looks like this look how extensive that plaque is compared to what you saw in the CT scan so it's not it's generally much more

impressive what's inside the vessel than what you appreciate on imaging but it's the focal stenosis that's the issue so ultimately if yet if the patient was a candidate stenting then you just place a stent

across that and he stabilized this plaque that's been removed and essentially plasti to that within the stent so it doesn't allow any thrombus to break off of this plaque and embolize up to the brain that's the issue of raw

it's the flow through there becomes much more turbulent as the narrowing occurs with this blockage and it's that turbulent flow that causes clot or even a small amount of clot to lodge up distally within the intrical in

terrestrial vasculature so that's the issue here at all if you don't take all that plaque out that's fine as long as you can improve the turbulent blood flow with this stent but this is not without risk so you take that plaque out which

looks pretty bad but there are some complications right so major minor stroke in death an asset which is a trial that's frequently quoted this is really this trial that was looking at medical therapy versus carotid surgery

five point eight percent of patients had some type of stroke major minor so that's not insignificant you get all that plaque out but if you know one in twenty you get a significant stroke then that's not so bad I'm not so good right

so but even if they don't get a stroke they might get a nerve palsy they might get a hematoma they may get a wound infection or even a cardiovascular event so nothing happens in the carotid but the heart has an issue because the

blockages that we have in the carotid are happening in the legs are happening in the coronary so those patients go through a stress event the general anesthetic the surgery incision whatever and then recovery from that I actually

put some stress on the whole body overall and they may get an mi so that's always an issue as well so can we do something less invasive this is actually a listing of the trials the talk is going to be available to you guys so I'm

not going to go through each of this but this is comparing medical therapy which I started with and surgery and comparing the two options per treatment and showing that in certain symptomatic patients if they have significant

stenosis which is deemed greater than 70% you may be better off treating them with surgery or stenting than with best medical therapy and as we've gotten better and better with being more aggressive with best medical therapy

this is moving a little bit but here's the criteria for treatment and so you have that available to you but really is

fish through creation one is screening with ultrasound you really have to be able to look at these patients and I'm you know when I talk to our physicians they say we have a great

ultrasonographer named Megan and so I say the first thing you need to get yourself a meg everybody needs a meg and May because meg knows what to look for what to look for what's a measure where to get flows and she submits that to us

now other than the anatomic part you know at our place you know we're very particular about and selected we try to be thoughtful about you know who gets what access and that's what the new dokey guidelines are gonna say you know

the best access for the right person at the right time so for example you know if you come in with a catheter and we can you know we'd won from a 275 mile radius people come to us you know for access because you know they they've

they've been given up the cases have been given up by local people and you've got a catheter my first thing I say is how long is the catheter been in and they said well catheters been in for eight months you're not getting a

percutaneous fistula if your catheters been in for eight months I'm gonna call one of the surgeons think I am with part of my group you know we have no competition there's no turf wars we're all friends we like each other we like

working together it's a great place I say Karl Karl Willy who was recently from Tampa - Karl illustration - sick catheter for six months is okay I'm going to create they put a flick seen graphed in the

upper arm probably with a suture listen a stenosis and pull the catheter tomorrow that patient's going to be dilating with a graph where the dialyzer will be graphed you know because after six months you don't want a cath over

there when you start going down that road of infection endocarditis vascular damage all that kind of stuff if you come in and you started with a catheter because somebody wasn't looking ahead far enough and you got a catheter and

they come here for accents placement catheters been in for you know two weeks three weeks one month there's a good chance you're gonna be seriously mapped for a percutaneous special because now we have time we've got we arbitrarily

have considered the six months window that we can probably work with the catheter there's nothing to prove that there's nothing in the literature in fact I had a discussion last night with someone from one of the companies who

wants to do some type of a trial to look and see when can these catheters really do go bad and so you're gonna get worked up for a percutaneous fish and clearly if you come with stage four you know know you're not on dialysis they don't

know when you're gonna go into Alice's but they you know you're going in that direction you're gonna get seriously worked up for a percutaneous fistula one patients are still psychologically trying to wrap their head around the

fact that they're going to be on dialysis it's much easier to tell them you come in you're gonna get a puncture two punctures you're gonna go home with a band-aid and we'll take care of this we'll get this up and running over the

next six weeks eight weeks ten weeks and when you need it it's gonna be ready to go and you won't need a catheter then we tell them you don't not gonna need this catheter sticking out of your neck they're very happy and they usually

agree to do the percutaneous miss doula also since you don't get those big ropey fish - as I talked about when these patients are in dialysis you know how many people ever been to a dialysis unit that's how I tell physicians you want to

you know you want to look build a practice like this go to the dialysis unit talk to the charge charge nurse do rounds once a month or once every couple of weeks with a nephrologist and that's how you build the practice but these

patients they're in the chairs they're talking to each other right and they say hey how come you don't look like a cling-on you know with this big veins you know you where's your fistula and then they want that you know they it's

really cosmetically very pleasing these patients are so deserving and they have such horrible I was being tied to that machine three days a week so any little bit of hope we can give them I think is is worth it alright in summary it's not

a one-step procedure and then we try to make patients understand this you may need a secondary angioplasty or embolization in the future hopefully not usually about 30% of the time has great value in the stage Forge so we

talked about more acceptable to patients coming to grips with their future may make a significant difference with the catheter people starting with a catheter and I think whoever is going to do this really has to have a commitment to

access this is not you're not doing a procedure you're actually developing a treatment plan or a treatment system and so then these patients are yours once you do this you're following them you're keeping them working you know how do you

sell this to the surgeon you sell to the surgeons this way because if you start this program you know people are gonna start coming to you they're gonna come out of the woodwork it's like if we start doing AVM stuff that they start to

come from nowhere and you're gonna draw so many patients the in that surgeons are going to have more work and there's no question because everybody's not going to be a candidate and so I mean when bobwhite if hopkins years ago

started doing angioplasty the business of surgery increased by 15% so you're gonna see you're gonna make the pie bigger that's how you sell it you're making the pie bigger and everybody can feast on the pie leverages our expertise

as interventional radiologists and image guided procedure list to make these procedures work I think we're in a great position a really great position if you listen to Alan Matsumoto the other day at the toddler lecture we're in a great

position for the new age of medicine and it may be the ideal procedure for multidisciplinary collaboration I can't do basilic vein transpositions or elevations or brachial vein elevations so it's good to have a surgeon that

you're friendly with that will make these things happen they're all part of the group that's necessary and I think that could be it yes ah I'm from New York and I'm a shameless marketer and so I would encourage you if you're

interested or some of your attendings or interests come to the vasa practicum it's gonna be done in Houston with dr. Eric Pete and chief of vascular surgery is running the meeting you get to put your hands on all these devices and put

and stuff you can all do it I mean it doesn't have to be doctors you have big models and they'll have live cases and it's a great opportunity in 2020 since I'm the president-elect of Vassar we're gonna run the meeting in

Charleston that's gonna be held out a hell of a lot of fun so we encourage you to come to Charleston in 2020 thank you very much not questions yeah

doing in the US so the setup usually in the hospital you have an angio suite recovery procedure rooms usually a new suite is like you know the you know like

what's in the market like top-notch or good things things especially if you're in a government hospital and then you have a storage you have vascular and Vascular now the scope is different some people just do vascular procedures some

people do everything at our institution we do everything that has a needle that you know you have to deal with it I are an interventional neuroradiology as well we integrate integrated actually we're one team and most of the inner

interventionalist and in Saudi Arabia are actually near radiologists or near interventionalist neural interventional radiology but we have like few comers who are neurologist or neurosurgeons so the team is like text nurses residents

fellows attendings but we don't have pas in Saudi Arabia which is a great privilege here and in the u.s. now text they don't scrub in as in the u.s. few of them they do but mostly nurses now nurses they do recovery patient care and

and so on and so forth just like here but the the privilege of PA is not there the workflow itself so it's institution dependent you do like we have rounds in the morning we do also flow rounds we have consultation service we have

clinics we have also like admission to day care radiology day care or like the day care but we still kind of like struggling with the inpatient admission which is I think the status here here you

the privilege also having a hospitalist at some hospitals you have a deal with the interventionalist who can admit under the hospitalist or sometimes under special services now sedation is also like you take it for granted there you

can have to fight for it so we do sedation's but not every institution like moderate sedation and then you have your own scheduled inpatient outpatient the scope of service also depends on this institution but basically we do a

very wide spectrum we do really advanced cases actually back home and we're very proud of what we do to be honest planning is very important because you don't always have the material that you want so it's very important to have good

planning to request a call and get materials you want to establish new service like when we come back like a few a lot of people actually trained in the US Canada and and so on and so forth Europe and they come back and they're

gonna start services so you always establish new service you have to write protocols and things like that you have didactics M&M and so on and so forth there are so many cases that we do as we said but you know again like

sometimes beyond the fellowship beyond the training you have to start new stuff you know you can like a tracheal stenting esophageal standing PD catheter with a Dean you know get that training in the US when I was here but now it's

like something common so you know things like that you have both of disciplinary conferences or meetings we have HCC liver tumor board GI conference you know vascular access conference which is kicked off and it's one of the good

things referral it's actually kind of aromatic so because I work for example in my institution it's a tertiary care hospital it's Oncology Center so it's automatically whenever a patient is

diagnosed with anything they can get actually referred so you have kind of from primary to secondary to tertiary care they just say it goes directly now you have direct referrals also like from diabetic foot centers dialysis centers

and also those patients can come in the nice thing is IR is kind of independent so we can accept patients just to all four IR so they come in for biopsy they come in for a procedure for a drainage for Anna Frost in exchange for whatever

and they leave the hospital so sometimes they come with an ambulance if they are not walkie-talkie they come with an ambulance we do the procedure they go back to their home institution and they we cover actually an area that is more

than 400 to 500 miles radius so some of them actually they're so sick to the point that they need to be transferred completely for CAIR turf battle is like it's not as the u.s. because the government sector as I

said it's the biggest thing so there's no incentive to do more it's basically like you want to do more because you want to help patients so the turf battle is not the same but it's still there you know just kind of personality things so

we still kind of like you know have peripheral arterial disease AV fistula we have kind of like some turf battle with vascular very cozy land and prostate in bolas ation sometimes you're all just won't kind of refer or won't

tell patients that these things exist with gynecology you have good relations but that sometimes that can happen that they want to do myomectomy or something I'm not your inorder embolization so pain we actually established a very

strong pain service right now and we do so many injections and things like that so they actually despise surgeons who refer to us on the arthropods they really like our results and the patients are happy so they started referring more

and more patients which kind of tip you know ruffle some feathers on the pain service admission as I said you know hospital service but we still don't have admission so inventory you have to know everything

I got like all the list from here before I left because you know the text or the there's no like specialized person to kind of handle inventory we have someone assigned but they're not as you know versatile with that so we have to kind

of like you know you have to know what you have you have to sometimes you're in procedure you have to say like no I know that in that corner that is that piece so please bring that on and you know the nice thing about their you know there's

support from companies not every company as in the u.s. is exist in there but you have good support you have the privilege of having some seee mark stuff which comes from Europe they're not FDA approved but they're seee mark approved

so you can actually get the European stuff before you give them in the US so

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